Meh, that's too easy, too straightforward. I say we go for godhood or bust. If that rat Sigmar can do it, so can we!
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
We didn't find a ring, we found Vlad's personal notes about the Von Carstein Ring.
Presumably we could do Webmat, except for the whole 'might not be the best idea to let anyone know we have these'.
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Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
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- The Destination of Fate
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- She/Her
I feel like the resident party pooper but this has to be done.
The closest thing to what you're suggesting is to create a liminal realm in our soul and have a cool pocket dimension on hand at all times to hold things, which Boney seemed to suggest as vaguely possible if we're willing to, you know, experiment with our own soul. Which I would be, but only if literally every step of the procedure would involve using The Gambler face of the Coin.
I understand your enthusiasm but Mathilde has been examining this psycho-reactive substance for the past ten-ish years and nothing points in the direction of actual immortality. Using AV to like, indirectly increase Mathilde's magical power by creating Orbs of Sorcery and using their awesome power in cool enchantments and whatnot is much more plausible.
The closest thing to what you're suggesting is to create a liminal realm in our soul and have a cool pocket dimension on hand at all times to hold things, which Boney seemed to suggest as vaguely possible if we're willing to, you know, experiment with our own soul. Which I would be, but only if literally every step of the procedure would involve using The Gambler face of the Coin.
Do consider that it may be easier to ascend to godhood if we first had non-godly immortality.
Even if we didn't have to worry about not letting anyone know that we're examining an enchantment possibly made by the Great Necromancer himself, none of Max, Johann or Egrimm would know enough of High Nehekharan or necromancy to meaningfully contribute in a way that facilitated this. Maybe Egrimm could make some enchantment-related observations but it'd be outside his wheelhouse.
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If we *did* build our own liminal realm, I wonder if it would he possible to create like, a phylactery that would catch her soul before it entered the warp? Gazul did it after all. And Mathilde knows a fair bit about souls and necromantic manipulation of them. Getting a new body would be a whole other project, but it *sounds* plausible? As long as you're okay being a ghostly abomination possessing an artificial body or something.
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Uh maybe The Animus Imprisoned could be enchanted onto an item (says it can be released by an Amethyst wizard or a Morrite, don't know if it has to be Divine Magic of Morr or if Mathilde's knowledge would suffice), it'd be a really big ask to get such an item though, pretty much signals that we're messing with souls, which really looks like Necromancy and gets us within range of Article 7.
- Location
- USA
The Great Horned Rat is Sigmar in disguise?!
Hire on Gretel as a temporary contractor for WEB-MAT?
Gretel: "And you want me because...?"
Mathilde: "Don't Shyish users like wrecking necromancers and their enchantments? It's a little personal with your College, isn't it?"
Gretel: "And you'll pay me with...?"
Mathilde: "......How about the very first pick of silk sheets Karak Eight Peaks will produce natively? Before anyone else, including me."
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Fetch the Witch Hunters, Mathilde's been replaced by a very unconvincing spy!
That is necromancy, I don't mean 'it sounds like what necromancers in other settings do', it is what Nagash did, that is what the Black Pyramid is.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
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- The Destination of Fate
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- She/Her
Necromancy is Shyish + Dhar. The Animus Imprisoned is a purely Shyish spell, so it's literally not necromancy. That said, yes, the Amethyst College would be extremely leery of allowing this and would ask very pointed questions because it still traps a person's soul in an object and holy shit there's a reason the Amethysts are very serious about their duties.
However, even if they were like 'sure we trust you with this', The Animus Imprisoned makes the person who has had their soul removed have a bad time mentally - mechanically in the RPG they suffer 1d10/2 Insanity Points to represent what a harrowing experience it is.
Thankfully, there is a better and less horrific alternative. The Hedgewise have a spell called Hedge Walk, which allows them to astral project their souls, briefly putting their bodies in a coma. The spell is self-only, so it'd need an enchantment to work (meaning convincing Aksel or someone else to take that risk for us somehow, and probably doing something to compensate them since they don't work based on College Favor), but on the other hand it can't really be abused offensively and also it doesn't hurt anyone's sanity.
Reminder that the purpose of armor is to take damage for you and that powerstones tend to fail explosively if damaged significantly...
That does quite neatly explain why they sourced it all from the one place. Any alternative would take too much magical skill and attention
Morr: What the heck are you guys bringing in now...
Oh good, someone already field tested the concept for us!
While we're on the topic of necromancy, I'm kinda curious how Mathilde would react to meeting Vlad. Like, presumably with fire and sword, but she seems to have a great deal of respect for his scholarship even if she has hangups about the vampirism. I just am really curious what a conversation between the two would be like lol.
- Location
- Canada
It's literally not, for the record
I don't doubt that Nagash can probably cast The Animus Imprisoned too, or maybe some Necromancy variant of it, but The Animus Imprisoned is verifiably not Necromancy
It's standard Amethyst magic
It's an Amethyst spell that's been recorded into the Amethyst spellbook by Boney,
It's not even Battlemagic either so any standard Amethyst Magister could be theoretically rocking this in their repertoire
Comes with the caveat that Amethysts aren't supposed to use this without demonstrably good reason, but that's not unique either:
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- Location
- UK
Analysis of the ink indicates traces of warpstone dust. Oh the schematics? Sounds like a job for engineers rather than magisters. Someone is working on a realistic clockwork horse though.
Celestial magic meanwhile offers up Project Spirit. I've looked at combining it with Mockery of Death to protect the body for the purpose of making a magic coffin. That doesn't solve the problem of supplying basic needs for truly long duration projection attempts though.
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Casting it for the purposes of escaping death is necromancy, that is the fundamental purpose of necromancy, here as the Death Magic is concerned with the natural tendency of things to actually end.
- Location
- Washington
No Dhar, No Necromancy. Casting it for the purposes of escaping death may potentially make it harder to do, as you fight against the fundamental nature of Shyish, but does not actually make it necromancy.
If we want to hook a liminal realm to Mathilde's soul, the other issue is that we can't have a Wind magic spell on her soul, as that's likely to convert the AV we'd use to create the realm into more Winds.
I don't think we'd know if Hedgecraft would have the same problem, but if so we'd need teo enchantment that with the spell solit into two parts. One to project the soul and a second to reintegrate it with the body.
Seeing what AV does when exposed to Hedgecraft is possibly a worthy investigation in its own right.
I don't think we'd know if Hedgecraft would have the same problem, but if so we'd need teo enchantment that with the spell solit into two parts. One to project the soul and a second to reintegrate it with the body.
Seeing what AV does when exposed to Hedgecraft is possibly a worthy investigation in its own right.
It would not be the Lore of necromancy in a mystical sense, but for the purposes of the people who would douse Mathilde in oil and burn her at the stake that would be irrelevant. The distinction between legal and mystical necromancy has been brought up when I mentioned recruiting Khatep, who uses no Dhar and is still technically alive but still looks like a walking dead man preserved by magic.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
It sounds like she's spent long enough close enough to death to pick up the weakness via undead-adjacency, rather than via whatever makes Daemons vulnerable - presumably chaotic energies or somesuch, given how apparitions aren't.
I don't think we actually know what happens when a Powerstone breaks? IIRC Boney said forever ago that they're valuable enough that no one's ever actually tested what happens when you break one without just using it up.
- Location
- Utrecht
MoneyB: less than 50 and you nerd out. More than 50 and you duel to the death
Ranald: 50
MoneyB: Dangit not again
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Later...
Mathilde: Kill me quickly
Vlad: I would sooner destroy a stained glass window as an artist like yourself.
In the specific context of my omake, on that path Mathilde was gotten by a a vampire that began to turn her*. Remembering the legends of the founder of the Blood Dragons draining a dragon and no-longer feeling the thirst, and eager to live if possible Mathilde tried using AV to sustain herself instead of the soul-stuff vampires get from blood or environmental dhar.
Again in the specific context of my totally non-canon omake this sort of worked. Mathilde may or may not be a vampire (drinking pure warp stuff when the change was still ongoing does weird things), but she can't just stop cold turkey like Abhorash could.
However, that still means she could easily be seen to fall into the same "Creatures of Dark Magic" category as Vampires, and Mathilde is not eager to test the tolerances of the Colleges and the Articles by telling the colleges what happened to her. At the very least it would severely curtail her freedom as the colleges are unlikely to let her continue going about wherever she pleases rather than planted firmly where they can keep an eye on her.
There is also a pragmatic argument that certain members of the colleges who would view her as a dark magic creature could advance: Mathilde has done insanely good things for the Empire's relationships with the Karaz Ankor. If the Dwarves find out what she has become it could be insanely damaging, and a 'heroic death' is much less dangerous to the Empire as whole than risking the possibility of this being exposed.
What the colleges would actually say in such a scenario, rather than what Mathilde 'Technically a Black Magister even before becoming not-a-vampire' Weber is concerned they might do I hadn't actually decided. The leadership might well be fine with it given how the colleges create Incarnate Elementals. Or they might not.
*I briefly explored this idea in a different omake.
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The specific legal distinction of being marked Black Magister requires the use of Dhar or alignment with the Ruinous Powers I believe. Likewise becoming a vampire or other undead creature would have you hunted and killed by Morr's knights , but thats not because you played silly buggers with mortality - the Gold do just that with full Gilding.
Now, the lynch mobs might not care, but the Colleges have to.
Not that trapping your soul with Animus Imprisoned is likely to lead to useful immortality rather than suicide with extra steps.
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Codex
Fantasy Addict
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This conversation reminds me of a conversation I had with Boney:
Not exactly the same, but deja vu. Either way, I don't even know the context of the current conversation. I just skimmed it. The mobs don't really care about the particulars, but the Animus Imprisoned isn't actually messing with the dead.
People brought up liminal realm creation, I wondered if you could use an enchantment to bind your soul to it in a sort of personal Underearth to keep it out of the warp upon death, people suggested various spell ideas for the enchantment. Free roaming ghosts/spirits *are* a thing necromancers use, so presumably it would be possible to Do Stuff as a loose soul, especially one with as much knowledge on souls and the necromantic manipulation of them as mathilde has. Getting a new body after that hasn't had any suggestions yet though.