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If we're going to start trying to lash apparitions to Mathilde's soul it's probably a good idea to start checking out what the hell Ulgu has done to it first. It'd be awfully embarrassing if the apparition jumped out a shadowy escape hatch and started going wild.

In general it's probably a good idea for Mathilde to spend some time taking a look at her soul anyway before going and messing around with apparitions.


Besides arcane marks are cool. Cython basically agreed that arcane marks are the path to greatness, and who's going to an argue with a dragon.
"Not just ours. It's also the method of the Dragons that schismed from the Caledorians and bound themselves to individual Winds."

"Oh?" he says, curiosity growing. "Is this conjecture?"

"An Ice Dragon resides in Karak Eight Peaks," you say with a smile. "Not quite as a citizen, but as a neighbour, and I have found that I share some interests with it. Its embrace of Hysh has advanced to the point where it is light and magic where once it was flesh and blood, and it has said that my Marks are a step down the very same road. A road that I do not believe exists for Qhaysh."

He looks at you for a while longer, then begins to titter. "Oh, very elegantly framed," he says with glee and sincerity. "To not just say that embracing a singular Wind is a handicap or a shortcut, but an outright rival to the holistic approach. Is this your own theory, or something your Orders have been working on collectively?"

Choose to spend AP on arcane marks and you too can be as awesome as a dragon.
 
A bunch of people have commented that we're tearing through Waystone construction; we're only four turns into the Waystone project proper (three turns that we've been able to do real team research; the first turn was just Lay the Foundations), and we've already got workable solutions for three of the four parts of an Elven waystone (though the river leyline approaches we identified still need to be prototyped). That implies that, assuming the Foundation component goes as smoothly as the others, we could in theory have our first Elven waystone in just three more turns (T42 study Foundation, T43 prototype a foundation approach, T44 take the Build an Elven Waystone action (assuming we also take the prototype actions for river leylines on T42 or T43)). While we shouldn't count our chickens before they're hatched -- the Foundation has been implied several times to be the most magically challenging component and so I think it's very possible that we'll stumble there and need to adjust our approach -- it's still cool as hell that an end point most people would have thought impossible is just over the horizon.
These are the fruits of preparation. We spent 2000 gc on the research facilities, 600 gc on the living spaces, and 11.5 actions (9 regular + 5 webmat, if you want to get technical) on getting everything together, personally scrutinizing a waystone and recruiting people. Of those recruitment actions, two were obtained using The Gambler (Thorek and Tochter) and Aksel needed The Father. Hatalath was a freebie from being in Laurelorn of course, and Niedzwenka and Zlata were the fortuitous reward of going out of our way during the Gryphon Wood action, but it was still a lot of work and it also involved literal divine help from Ranald to grease the wheels.

But I will note the following as well:
1) I don't wish to raise our hopes/expectations too much because we know the Foundation is probably the hardest individual part, but the Rune and Capstone actions went well enough that we got the prototypes finished in the same action that we actually researched them, so if (if) the Foundation is the same as that it could get its component finished in one turn. However...

2) The Capstone and Leyline actions provided us multiple possible components with their own sets of drawbacks and benefits. For instance, the current talk on how the Runic Inductor probably being easier to do in terms of scalability but also having less safeties so to speak. It's a very real possibility in my mind that the Foundations action could similarly yield a high Wind storage capacity that needs to be done via Qhaysh, and/or a Collegiate or Dwarven version that has lower capacity. Meaning that...

3) The Build A Waystone action is really looking like it'll be a matter of carefully picking the options we have developed and try for the best results in the places we hope to place the finished products in. It's possible some pegs will be bad fits for some holes, and it may or may not take more than one action. And if, say, we later decide to integrate some new knowledge or development (such as regular leylines after negotiating for passphrases), I don't know if that'd necessitate a new action for a second type of waystone or something of the sort.

None of the other suspected apparition spells are using them to deliver a payload of an actual separate spell, they're just giving them physical shape that makes them more dangerous. That doesn't mean it's impossible, but it does mean that you'd be trying to invent something entirely new instead of just adapting what you already have extensive notes on how to achieve. Sticking with copying what the other spells do means you could easily adapt Black Essence to deliver a longer-lasting Pall of Darkness effect that follows someone around, or tweak it into being an asphyxiant that follows someone around.
I have a possibly dumb question about the Black Essence, since ToC's description of it is a single paragraph that's not very forthcoming but Mathilde would presumably have access to more than that: does the Black Essence like, actually hurt or kill the people it haunts, and/or those around them? Because taken literally it just sort of hangs out in the face-holes of the people the 'target' sees.

The Black Essence is not so much an independent creature as it is something that seems to hang about the living. Preceded by a moist stink of decay and cloying brimstone, the black essence appears suddenly. Wherever the caster looks, he sees foul clinging darkness spilling out from eyes, nostrils, and mouths. Even when no one's around, the caster sees pools of this filth in puddles on the ground, dripping from the walls, staining plants and so on.
Part of me is even inclined to think it cozies in there so that the dark magic user lashes out against them and the Essence can slurp up the magic without killing the source.
 
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I have a possibly dumb question about the Black Essence, since ToC's description of it is a single paragraph that's not very forthcoming but Mathilde would presumably have access to more than that: does the Black Essence like, actually hurt or kill the people it haunts, and/or those around them? Because taken literally it just sort of hangs out in the face-holes of the people the 'target' sees.

Part of me is even inclined to think it cozies in there so that the dark magic user lashes out against them and the Essence can slurp up the magic without killing the source.

Chaos Sorcerers and Necromancers tend not to be the sanest bunch to start with. When everything and everyone around them starts dripping with foul ichor they tend to get themselves killed one way or another soon after. Whether it's just a psychological effect or whether the Black Essence takes a more active part in making that happen is an open question.
 
Mind, the rune may yet be modifiable, we don't know anything about how runes work, so its possible that the Pump Dhar rune can be linked to a safety cutoff trigger if the outlet is clogged, but we don't know, and runic R&D isn't fast even when its making a known rune do something slightly different.

Hopefully Thorek is already looking into it.
 
While we're talking about sorcerers, is there like, an overarching concept for what dhar does like the winds? Because you've got necromancers, assorted chaos sorceries, dark elf true dhar, wood elf darkweavers, eshin ulgu sorcery, skaven warlocks, etc etc, and they all seem to be remarkably different disciplines despite all using the same stuff. Is it just able to do anything as long as it's powerful and unstable?
 
While we're talking about sorcerers, is there like, an overarching concept for what dhar does like the winds? Because you've got necromancers, assorted chaos sorceries, dark elf true dhar, wood elf darkweavers, eshin ulgu sorcery, skaven warlocks, etc etc, and they all seem to be remarkably different disciplines despite all using the same stuff. Is it just able to do anything as long as it's powerful and unstable?

The Elven ones are the only ones that only use Dhar, so can be looked at for the most 'pure' expression of what Dhar is. Everything else has a God or a Wind mixed in.
 
While we're talking about sorcerers, is there like, an overarching concept for what dhar does like the winds? Because you've got necromancers, assorted chaos sorceries, dark elf true dhar, wood elf darkweavers, eshin ulgu sorcery, skaven warlocks, etc etc, and they all seem to be remarkably different disciplines despite all using the same stuff. Is it just able to do anything as long as it's powerful and unstable?
Most Dhar users don't use just Dhar but a wind plus Dhar. Or even multiple winds because they aren't worried about producing more Dhar from that. Which leads to a combinational explosion of possible uses it makes sense that it's all over the place.
 
You know, Nehekhara presumably had some source of Waystone Gold, given that they used them in their pyramidions. I wonder if an enterprising diplomat could find a relatively-stable Tomb King and ask?

Mind, the rune may yet be modifiable, we don't know anything about how runes work, so its possible that the Pump Dhar rune can be linked to a safety cutoff trigger if the outlet is clogged, but we don't know, and runic R&D isn't fast even when its making a known rune do something slightly different.

Hopefully Thorek is already looking into it.
I don't think it's too much of an issue, assuming the Foundation we end up with doesn't hit capacity and stop accepting Dhar. Even if it just dumps the excess around it - which seems to be what existing Waystones do - so long as the Capstone can move Dhar out of itself, it shouldn't explode.
 
I have to say, I'm pretty happy how the Library turned out. I wasn't a fan of the idea originally, but the thread has pretty consistently found really cool applications. Bookmining was great, so was spider librarians, and the upcoming Nuln action also really tickles me.
This is such a funny fucking idea and I really want to do it. "I have revolutionized magic in two different ways this quarter and now am taking a well-earned vacation to kill Druchii, see you in three months, peace up A-town down."

(Presumably, Dragomas and Algard then reach out to Belegar for emotional support in the experience of having Mathilde as a subordinate.)
To be pedantic: It's three different ways. Waystones, Morbs, Liminal Spaces. All of which were known to be possible from existing examples, but considered impossible to recreate for the Colleges.

And to be fair, all except the waystones still mostly will be, since it requries a special ressource only Mathilde has. Still pretty good for something done by a single person, let alone in her spare time between retaking multiple Karaks, meddling in Sylvania, and leading a revolutionairy scientific programm.
Most people aren't working together day by day, they come together to compare notes and figure out the next step and then they go to apply their own paradigm to it. The manor is large enough and well furnished and equipped enough that there's no need for people who might clash if kept at close quarters for long enough to have to. Most of the exceptions to people doing their own thing in their own company are shown on screen, like during the tributary prototyping.
Well, I'm glad the massive amount of money spent on furnishings did it's job.

Hey @Boney what happens with the house after the project is over? Having property is kind of a major deal there. Can Mathilde claim it as her summer home, since she led the endeveor, and put all the stuff in there. I guess it depends on the success of the project, and it might be a negtionable reward.
 
Hey @Boney what happens with the house after the project is over? Having property is kind of a major deal there. Can Mathilde claim it as her summer home, since she led the endeveor, and put all the stuff in there. I guess it depends on the success of the project, and it might be a negtionable reward.

Yet to be determined. Mathilde angling to keep it is one way she might cash in if everything goes well.
 
While we're talking about sorcerers, is there like, an overarching concept for what dhar does like the winds? Because you've got necromancers, assorted chaos sorceries, dark elf true dhar, wood elf darkweavers, eshin ulgu sorcery, skaven warlocks, etc etc, and they all seem to be remarkably different disciplines despite all using the same stuff. Is it just able to do anything as long as it's powerful and unstable?

The basics is that Dhar is about destroying, dominating and distorting(well okay corrupting but I saw I had 2 Ds already) things.

So Necromancers wield Dhar through Death(Shyish), and so it does those three things to the concept of Death, and you get to make the dead move around under your domination, and theres a bunch of things that mostly do those things. Which is something Shyish doesn't much like on its own.

Eshin Ulgu sorcery meanwhile seems to revolve around adding destruction and screwing around with ambiguities...most of which are already in Ulgu's book because destroying and corrupting boundaries/minds/distances isn't really that distinct from manipulating them to begin with, except you can dope it with warpstone, and its more enthusiastic about killing, which the Skaven consider win-win, yes-yes.

Druchii use it in the pure form, and you could just have the Dhar Dominate anything to make it do what you want as long as you don't mind breaking the thing in the process.

But in the end you could twist a metaphor around to make any flavor of magic do a crapton of stuff. Adding Dhar just makes it easier to get powerful effects faster at the expense of making it easier to kill or corrupt yourself faster.
 
So a thought hit me.

Would the calculus of how hard it is to get magic from the river change if the magic user was inside the river.

Either some sort of magic water monster. A chaos aligned mage with some sort of aquatic mutation. Or a normal magic user with some specialized enchantments (Like how Mathilde did some river diving with clever magic use). Or even someone who is just very good at swimming.

A mage could directly immerse themselves in the stream of magic. Bring themselves to it instead of it to them.

Alternatively, demons can sustain themselves if they have access to enough ambient magic right? So could a chaos cult summon some sort of aquatic demon on the river's edge and let it off into the river to feast and wreak havoc?
 
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Its not the Lone Necromancer sort of attainable, its more of either a very long, highly visible ritual to draw enough Dhar, someone hijacks and corrupts or a major faction drags a number of Battle Altar equivalents and gets with the mojo.
I think you could do bad stuff with a bit of ingenuity. Like steal a few Thorek style capstones, reforge them into Dhar-ifiers and hang them into the river in a net. Voila, large amounts of Dhar creation that only works because the Winds are being channeled through the river. Now my idea might not work. But my point is that the enemies can to R&D too and making a Wind torrent into a Dhar torrent with this one neat trick that Order mages hate doesn't seem like the hardest problem ever. Or at least it seems easier than filling a river with Dhar by actively sourcing it yourself.
Yet to be determined. Mathilde angling to keep it is one way she might cash in if everything goes well.
It's big. I'd vote to try and make it the official Imperial embassy to Laurelorn and keep a room and a lab to ourselves.
 
I don't think considering Battlemagic as a last resort weapon works well, its difficult to cast, and using it as the last resort maximizes the risk(due to the risks of being stuck in or counterspelled) while making it difficult to capitalize on the gain.

Battlemagic(or at least the Grey list) is vastly better as a fight opener, when you have lined up your shot, nobody knows you are there to counterspell you, everything is in the blast template, and then you delete everything in the blast template.

I never said Battle Magic should be our last resort. I said the dragon flask was our last resort, and that we should consider throwing down battlemagic before we resort to it.
 
I played lot of Grand Cathay this past week, and then i was rereading the quest, and i just can´t help but wonder just how hard would Mathilde bluescreen on talking with Miao Ying (probably not much, Mathilde talks with powerful beings often and is no blushing maiden). I still find the idea of Mathilde swooning hilarious thought.

Zhao Ming is sadly too insecure to be instant Mathilde Bait, so no collecting dragons.
 
It's big. I'd vote to try and make it the official Imperial embassy to Laurelorn and keep a room and a lab to ourselves.
EIC might be interested as well. Especially if it trys to sell luxuires/novelties that we have not not negotiated beforehand. Having a hand in pulse would allow them to make a profit from even constantly changing market. Or they could lease it to Chamberlain of Seal for embassy and be the landlords. Or perhaps it is big enough to do both. But yeah keeping it might be interesting.
 
Potential way to get magic out of river without waterfall:

Build temple next to river. Extend altar out of temple into river and along river bed until reaches the other side. Offer god of temple all magic that passes over altar as tribute.

Also works as way to empower god maybe.
 
So a thought hit me.

Would the calculus of how hard it is to get magic from the river change if the magic user was inside the river.

Either some sort of magic water monster. A chaos aligned mage with some sort of aquatic mutation. Or a normal magic user with some specialized enchantments (Like how Mathilde did some river diving with clever magic use). Or even someone who is just very good at swimming.

A mage could directly immerse themselves in the stream of magic. Bring themselves to it instead of it to them.

Alternatively, demons can sustain themselves if they have access to enough ambient magic right? So could a chaos cult summon some sort of aquatic demon on the river's edge and let it off into the river to feast and wreak havoc?
The turbulence doesn't change. Being in the turbulence might suck
 
EIC might be interested as well. Especially if it trys to sell luxuires/novelties that we have not not negotiated beforehand. Having a hand in pulse would allow them to make a profit from even constantly changing market. Or they could lease it to Chamberlain of Seal for embassy and be the landlords. Or perhaps it is big enough to do both. But yeah keeping it might be interesting.
Getting the EIC to officially share a building with the Imperial Ambassador to Laurelorn would be a huge win for the EIC.
 
Gretel is canonically a normal amethyst wizard.
I'm sorry, what? What did Amethyst magic do back in those days? Was it not associated with death or was the association really weird or something?

Edit: Also the Amber description seems very similar to what I would expect of a Jade description. What craziness did they have for the Jades instead?
 
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Hey @Boney what happens with the house after the project is over? Having property is kind of a major deal there. Can Mathilde claim it as her summer home, since she led the endeveor, and put all the stuff in there. I guess it depends on the success of the project, and it might be a negtionable reward.
Alternate idea, a permanent direct Imperial embassy based there, so the Eonir can bring concerns directly to the attention of the Emperor instead of having Elector Counts stopping them.

Possibly with a permanent go between for the Colleges too to keep collaboration going.
 
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