Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
Reader mode
I think the thread previously floated the idea of Mathilde asking Cython to teach her Classical but couldn't figure out how to persuade Cython to say yes.
 
silentorphan said:
I think the thread previously floated the idea of Mathilde asking Cython to teach her Classical but couldn't figure out how to persuade Cython to say yes.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think we've got much cheaper options for learning Classical.

(Though I suppose those other options don't come with hanging out with a dragon, I don't know that there's anything we can do to make it worth Cython's time)
 
Boney said:
"Some local legend, I think," Anton says with a shrug. "The seller tried to tell me some story about someone who supposedly killed Castle Drakenhof, but it didn't sound all that plausible."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I wonder, if Mathilde were to become Saint of Ranald, would the Protector face start gaining anti-undead properties?

What cult would snap up the worship of theoretical spirit rising from Dammerlichtreiter legend if it happened five centuries ago? Something to indulge in when thinking about how cool Mathilde is :V

I am also flinching at early clues that Anton Senior will most likely start getting senile despite his otherwise youthful vigour. Always sad to see that happen.

Mopman43 said:
(Though I suppose those other options don't come with hanging out with a dragon, I don't know that there's anything we can do to make it worth Cython's time)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A company and secondhand confirmation of its theory that Ancestor Gods are not the original gods of Dwarves. That would require betraying Borek, so i will never vote for it, but its theoretically feasible.
 
Last edited:
Boney said:
"Very well." Thorek sighs. "The leaders of the Runesmiths Guild of Karag Dum call themselves 'Runemasters'."

You contemplate that as you look at Thorek's grave expression. "That's it?"

"'Runelord' is the title Thungni bestowed upon the son that succeeded Him when He departed
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Runemaster also gives a lot more sense now that we know that they utilized extant runelore to to ends that could end up entreating a god that predates Thungni.
 
Boney said:
"Marienburg? Glad to hear it. Would be a costly day if we had to take that pair down." He scratches his beard thoughtfully, and looks to the two other Wizards standing nearby. "Esbern, Seija, your thoughts?"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
@Boney forgive me if this was already asked but i could not find reference to it post the posted chapter and its been some time. Is this hubris or would they actually have a chance at striking him down?
 
All the talk about Runesmiths and them doing crazy things got me thinking about the Elemental/Golem with 5 Runes on it's soul. Then there was a talk about Cython, which got me thinking about the Wind Apotheosis and talk about Saint of Ranald got me thinking about grail Knights. Then I thought about Runes of Gods.

Is is possible to use Runes as part of the Apotheosis and include a Symbol of Ranald to try and add a Divine Element to whatever the hell Mathilde will become after the Apotheosis?
 
ArcanaVitae said:
All the talk about Runesmiths and them doing crazy things got me thinking about the Elemental/Golem with 5 Runes on it's soul. Then there was a talk about Cython, which got me thinking about the Wind Apotheosis and talk about Saint of Ranald got me thinking about grail Knights. Then I thought about Runes of Gods.

Is is possible to use Runes as part of the Apotheosis and include a Symbol of Ranald to try and add a Divine Element to whatever the hell Mathilde will become after the Apotheosis?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No. As in, we have no idea what the fuck are you talking about, in character.

Also Divine and Arcane don't mix well. So thats double no, this time from outside perspective.

Speaking of five runes thought, we should definitely look into seviroscope. We are nearing our true anniversary of meeting Kragg in few years (being older than his average pair of shoes) and as such a gift would be in order.
 
Last edited:
pucflek said:
@Boney forgive me if this was already asked but i could not find reference to it post the posted chapter and its been some time. Is this hubris or would they actually have a chance at striking him down?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't see why not. Asarnil and Deathfang are good, but they're not 'solo the combined armies of the Empire' good, and I'd assume that retaking Marienburg would see the commitment of a good portion of that. The Empire does have access to dragons of its own, after all.
 
Boney said:
"The wilds, fertility, the ocean," it says dismissively. "Ulric is another puzzle. Ellinilli, perhaps?"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Boney said:
"I doubt they worship Asuryan or Lileath, so it might be erroneous worship - I doubt the celestial bodies care for or respond to worship
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is another clue to how cython might be wrong.

Rhya is fertility yes, but Rhya is not Isha. Cython appears to conflate all deities of a phenomenon and diffrentiate them by aspect, but this is apparently a difference. I wonder if we could submit it, if we did not already as this is old update and i am not sure this disparity has been noted before.

ReImagined said:
I don't see why not. Asarnil and Deathfang are good, but they're not 'solo the combined armies of the Empire' good, and I'd assume that retaking Marienburg would see the commitment of a good portion of that. The Empire does have access to dragons of its own, after all.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I read that as "our order will have to take those two down" instead which might've introduced some confusion.
 
Last edited:
pucflek said:
I wonder if we could submit it, if we did not already as this is old update and i am not sure this disparity has been noted before.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If by "submit it" you mean tell Cython, this has been brought up before. However:
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Did Deathfang and his stories/views ever get brought up with Cython? If so I assume his response amounted to dismissal and contempt?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Boney said:
Mathilde doesn't want to admit she's seeing other dragons on the side.

Or, more seriously, the two factions of dragons get cranky about each other and Karak Eight Peaks doesn't want a cranky dragon in its attic.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Mathilde's evidence for Rhya not being Isha is "a Caledorian dragon told me so", which might be worse than no evidence as far as Cython is concerned. Although now that I think about it perhaps Mathilde could tell Cython about her investigation into the Cult of Karnos, as it did provide some evidence that Taal isn't Kurnous, which in turn puts the 'Rhya=Isha' thing into doubt.

Regarding the worship of the sun and the moon, we should really get around to studying our Kurgan altar one of those days. I imagine whatever we find will be of some interest to Cython.
 
pucflek said:
Rhya is fertility yes, but Rhya is not Isha. Cython appears to conflate all deities of a phenomenon and diffrentiate them by aspect, but this is apparently a difference. I wonder if we could submit it, if we did not already as this is old update and i am not sure this disparity has been noted before.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Though that's ultimately an argument about 'who is right' between two very old dragons.

Maybe Deathfang is the one who is wrong?
 
Mopman43 said:
Though that's ultimately an argument about 'who is right' between two very old dragons.

Maybe Deathfang is the one who is wrong?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm not pitching in on which one is right and which one is wrong, but I will say that Deathfang's credentials are more practical than Cython. Cython is a powerful ancient dragon who is incredibly intelligent and attuned to the Wind of Enlightenment, which means they spend a lot of time thinking and theorising. Although that does not mean objective truth, as Horstmann told us, as any form of subjective truth applies.

But Deathfang is not a sedentary dragon. Where Cython spends centuries in their lair sleeping and claiming territory/kicking out intruders, Deathfang is going around all over. Even without Asarnil, he was clearly getting around considering he was there for the collapse of the Great Wall. He might have had other riders, or he was just particularly adventurous, but he seems to be more worldly than Cython. Cython barely knew anything about eastern religion for example.
 
Mopman43 said:
Though that's ultimately an argument about 'who is right' between two very old dragons.

Maybe Deathfang is the one who is wrong?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean not really?

We can doubt a lot about Deathfang's conclusions but we should not doubt his ability to discern. Whatever the conclusion you can come to, he still identified those two beings as different. We can doubt what it means, we can doubt the entire story he gave us, but there is one fact that remains, and that is that magically supreme being that possibly predates divinities identified two difinities as being apart.
 
Last edited:
Deathfang is a good deal older than Cython and has been through a lot more as well. Cython may be a scholar of the Divine but Deathfang was around when the gods where walking the world, and for those he hasn't met he likely knows or knew someone who that did met them. Cython would likely have a much better view of more modern happenings regarding the gods though.
 
Last edited:
Hmm, don't know if this has been mentioned before, but is there a chance the gods of Kislev might be the other Ellinilli? Drakira could be the Widow, and her three brothers each correspond to one of the other non-Mathlann Ellinilli.
There's also the story of Ranald interfering due to Salyak and causing the deaths of the Widow's other brothers, which lines up with Loec having Ellinill devour his children when Isha asked him for help.
 
Mopman43 said:
The idea has come up before, but could you lay out, in your opinion, which of the Ellinilli match up with which of the Kislev gods?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Drakira would be the Widow, aside from both being female, the Widow has also been referred as being somewhat spiteful and grudg-y, which fits with the whole Vengeance part fo Drakira.
Addaioth seems like a straight fit for Dazh, both being gods primarily of fire. The attitude however doesn't fit much, as Addaioth was supposedly the most warlike Ellinilli while Dazh is the calmest Kislevite diety.
The other two Ellinilli don't have much info on them but if i had to hazard a guess I'd associate Estreuth with Ursun, there's also a diametric opposition of their divinities in a sense, with Estreuth being hunger/famine/drought, while Ursun is associated with Bears who represent haleness in a sense, and also Wealth.
Hukon and Tor would be the ones that remain, but lightning doesn't really fit with earthquakes.
I suppose you could make Addaioth be Tor, as they are the most direct and warlike, but that raises issues with the Fire divinity of Addaioth.
The history of the Gospodar finding their gods could also be associated with how the surviving Ellinilli escaped to the mortal world to flee Ellinill and stayed there ever since.
 
HeWhoLurks said:
Hmm, don't know if this has been mentioned before, but is there a chance the gods of Kislev might be the other Ellinilli? Drakira could be the Widow, and her three brothers each correspond to one of the other non-Mathlann Ellinilli.
There's also the story of Ranald interfering due to Salyak and causing the deaths of the Widow's other brothers, which lines up with Loec having Ellinill devour his children when Isha asked him for help.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The Kislev God possibly being Ellinilli has been mentioned a number of times, yes. For a fairly recent mention here's an example of an attempt to fit the Ellinilli to the Kislev God, and here is a partial rebuttal, but really if you search the thread for the word 'Ellinilli' you'll find various theories in this vein pretty much from the moment we were told that Ranald and Saylak had the Widow's siblings killed. I think the most likely explanation - if we buy that the Kislev Gods are Ellinilli - is that the Kislev Gods are simply Ellinilli that the elves aren't aware survived, and fitting them to the known five Ellinilli is attempting to fit four square pegs in five round holes.

The only possible exception to the above is Addaioth. Addaioth being Dazh is the only one that kind of fits, except that as you point out there are some serious discrepancies in their personalities. The reason I think it might still be right is that Addaioth was saved by Ladrielle, and Kalita kind of sounds like (an aspect of?) Ladrielle, and Kalita is said to be a noble in Dazh's court. Perhaps Ladrielle, as the Goddess of hidden things who is known to hide Her face, was able to hide Addaioth and give Him a cover story. So the story everyone knows is that Addaioth is an angry shitty smith who hates Ladrielle for getting in the way of his fight, while in truth Addaioth has mellowed out and is actually friends with His saviour.
 
pucflek said:
A company and secondhand confirmation of its theory that Ancestor Gods are not the original gods of Dwarves. That would require betraying Borek, so i will never vote for it, but its theoretically feasible.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A different avenue to interacting with Cython would be the Kurgan moon shrine. I don't know if outright studying it with them makes sense, but it could be a social right after that also gives us an excuse to get them to meet Egrimm.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting is open
Remove ads
Back
Top