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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Plus, even if he isn't a vampire, there's plenty of other ways he could cause problems. This is the guy who would canonically be crazy enough to teleport his castle into the ocean because he wanted to be a pirate. Something tells me this is a guy with large ambitions. Let's hope they're the sort of ambitions we can live with.
 
Alratan said:
If he doesn't use Dhar and has the right blood gifts, he could be very hard to distinguish from someone that simply lives marinading in the background Dhar contamination of Sylvania.
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If the only thing that can uncover a vampire who took Sylvania from under Roswita's nose is a lord magister who is flying in from across the continent for a few hours chat than I say congratulations to the vampire. He's earned it. :V

At that point we should just all accept that whoever is put in charge of the place will just naturally gravitate towards vampirism like a rock rolling down hill
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Unless the Empire declares a formal and public alliance with the Druchii, which is more or less declaring war on the Asur, then I don't think it'll affect the elfcation. We're a grey wizard, so all of our activities are Top Secret, and the High Elves don't really have an effective rumour mill in the Empire. I just don't see how "The Empire allegedly made trade deals with the Druchii through their alliance with the Eonir, which is the responsibility of that Wolf Count person they have" translates into "Mathilde personally befriended a Druchii, and that makes her an enemy of Nagarythe".

Especially when our goal is "The Empire tried to make trade deals with our wayward cousins, but we outbid the Druchii and now the Empire trades with us exclusively (also the Empire sank a slaver fleet)".
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pucflek said:
Its not like the Druuchi we will be killing will be, you know, probably from those places anyway? They didn't promise us total raiding stop in Empire either, just that they might tip us off sometimes, if we end up working together. So this shouldn't be too consequential.
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Mathilde is an honored guest and diplomatic representative for Eonir-Empire relations, which is a very public position, especially considering our mode of travel by Gyrocopter. Furthermore, since the underlying goal of Druchii diplomacy is to wave it in front of Ulthuan's face to extract benefits from the two competing sides, it would become known rather trivially that Mathilde got involved.

Furthermore, the Druchii wish to establish formal relations and trade with the Eonir/Empire. Queen Marrisith even gave an example of selling them captured beasts from Laurelorn/Drakwald, which strengthens their military potential. That is an implicit hostile action against the High Elves and gives legitimacy to Druchii, especially in the context of Marienburg and the colonial/adversarial tensions existing between Empire vs. Ulthuan.

Why wouldn't Ulthuan/Nagarythe resent us and the Empire for meddling with Druchii business with the explicit goal of extracting concessions from the High Elves, not to mention materially aiding and recognizing the legitimacy of the Dark Elves? They should be absolutely livid. Sure we're not proclaiming to be BFFs with them, but engaging in diplomacy means recognizing Naggaroth as a sovereign nation and undermines Ulthuan's authority.
 
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Resonant said:
Mathilde is an honored guest and diplomatic representative for Eonir-Empire relations, which is a very public position, especially considering our mode of travel by Gyrocopter. Furthermore, since the underlying goal of Druchii diplomacy is to wave it in front of Ulthuan's face to extract benefits from the two competing sides, it would become known rather trivially that Mathilde got involved.

Furthermore, the Druchii wish to establish formal relations and trade with the Eonir/Empire. Queen Marrisith even gave an example of selling them captured beasts from Laurelorn/Drakwald, which strengthens their military potential. That is an implicit hostile action against the High Elves and gives legitimacy to Druchii, especially in the context of Marienburg and the colonial/adversarial tensions existing between Empire vs. Ulthuan.

Why wouldn't Ulthuan/Nagarythe resent us and the Empire for meddling with Druchii business with the explicit goal of extracting concessions from the High Elves, not to mention materially aiding and recognizing the legitimacy of the Dark Elves? They should be absolutely livid. Sure we're not proclaiming to be BFFs with them, but engaging in diplomacy means recognizing Naggaroth as a sovereign nation and undermines Ulthuan's authority.
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Well Laurelorn is explicitly planning on doing exactly that, and they're expecting it to work out just fine for them. If they thought entertaining Druuchi offers would infuriate the Asur instead of drive them to offer more, they wouldn't be doing it.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Well Laurelorn is explicitly planning on doing exactly that, and they're expecting it to work out just fine for them. If they thought entertaining Druuchi offers would infuriate the Asur instead of drive them to offer more, they wouldn't be doing it.
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Which is fine for the Eonir since they're playing wannabe kingmakers over the Phoenix Throne, but for Mathilde specifically that is liable to backfire on us when we show up for Elfcation asking for lessons after annoying them.
 
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Deathbybunnies said:
Well Laurelorn is explicitly planning on doing exactly that, and they're expecting it to work out just fine for them. If they thought entertaining Druuchi offers would infuriate the Asur instead of drive them to offer more, they wouldn't be doing it.
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What are they going to do, reconquer them? Eonir are their own sovereign nation, if they want to make deals with Malekith, they damn well can. I don't think its necessarily just to spite Ulthuan, i think they can see the value of (careful) partnership of its own. Ulthuan will either fess up or get angry and bluster, but what more can they do?

Resonant said:
Which is fine for the Eonir since they're playing wannabe kingmakers over the Phoenix Throne, but for Mathilde specifically that is liable to backfire on us when we show up for Elfcation asking for lessons after annoying them.
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Maybe. More the reason to either go there or just not. There are bound to be people that can teach us Ulgu like, right here. If we prove worthy.
 
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Deathbybunnies said:
Well Laurelorn is explicitly planning on doing exactly that, and they're expecting it to work out just fine for them. If they thought entertaining Druuchi offers would infuriate the Asur instead of drive them to offer more, they wouldn't be doing it.
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Laurelorn already lives in the shadow of having pissed off Ulthuan and doing diplomacy with them anyway because they are a means by which the Asur can exert influence on this continent (and, being fellow elves, there's a level of kinship that can be traded upon). Even so, I can't imagine they'd find a warm welcome in Nagarythe, were any of their leadership ever to visit.
Resonant said:
Which is fine for the Eonir since they're playing wannabe kingmakers over the Phoenix Throne, but for Mathilde specifically that is liable to backfire on us when we show up for Elfcation asking for lessons after annoying them.
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Yeah, exactly. The ameliorating factors don't really hold true for Mathilde; if Nagarythe gets annoyed at her for doing business with their sworn enemy, what does she have that they want? She already did them a solid and they responded with an invitation to come hang out and pursue the joint hobby of Druchii-punching. If they feel she isn't sufficiently committed to the hobby, they can just be like "actually, nah, we don't want to hang out" and there isn't a damn thing Mathilde can do about it.
 
Honestly, we can just impress Hatalath by fixing the damn Nexuses, then maybe he can teach us something :V 'S not like we would learn that much in a hundred days anyway.

This honestly just sounds like we should just get the Elfcation over with while we can. Might even provide insights into the potential diplomacy with the druuchi emissaries, i dunno. Sounds dubious but who knows.
 
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pucflek said:
Honestly, we can just impress Hatalath by fixing the damn Nexuses, then maybe he can teach us something :V 'S not like we would learn that much in a hundred days anyway.
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Tbh, I just want the extenuating factors of Druchii diplomacy to be known before we jump in headfirst, since it has the potential for knock-on effects such as effectively invalidating Elfcation by pissing off Ulthuan in the worst case scenario. This is why I'd like to purchase book bonuses for them, but I'm generally apathetic to getting involved with Dark Elves - they're a headache to deal with even in decent circumstances.
 
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Honestly, ever since Laurelorn got to be on the table, i am extremely lukewarm to even going. We are already working with elves.

Sure, maybe the older, combat oriented brothers to Grey Order will help us pull some of our in progress skills to the finishing line, but like... we are already working with Elves. Whats the real benefit here?

I feels like we have effectively sat on this boon for so long that it doesn't look like it will yield much either way.
 
pucflek said:
Sure, maybe the older, combat oriented brothers to Grey Order will help us pull some of our in progress skills to the finishing line, but like... we are already working with Elves. Whats the real benefit here?
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Those are...not the same elves? The Shadow Warriors know a lot about Shadows and Warrioring, which are both interests of Mathilde, and so an unpaid internship with them could be valuable for Mathilde. Some elves do not possess the same insights, despite belonging to the same species. I mean, obviously. The Grey Lords do know some things about Greying, which is also something Mathilde is interested in, but we don't have an offer for a 100 day unpaid intership with the Grey Lords, and we are unlikely to get one anytime soon, and even if we did have such an offer the Grey Lords probably don't have the Intrigue and Martial insights that the Shadow Warriors do.
 
mathymancer said:
Those are...not the same elves? The Shadow Warriors know a lot about Shadows and Warrioring, which are both interests of Mathilde, and so an unpaid internship with them could be valuable for Mathilde. Some elves do not possess the same insights, despite belonging to the same species. I mean, obviously. The Grey Lords do know some things about Greying, which is also something Mathilde is interested in, but we don't have an offer for a 100 day unpaid intership with the Grey Lords, and we are unlikely to get one anytime soon, and even if we did have such an offer the Grey Lords probably don't have the Intrigue and Martial insights that the Shadow Warriors do.
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I am aware, but the lustre of working with elves has worn off for me and quite frankly, Grey Lords are probably lot better at just about every sort of magic known to elf than Nagarythians are. Not so its combat applications, but thats not what we look for these days anyway.

We can finish those skills of in different ways, so the only thing Nagarythians have for themselves is that they are somewhat convenient, and that they are elves, which, at the time we gained the boon, has been a novelty. Its not, anymore.

And if we ever do finish waystone project, it will probably give us enough inroad with Hatalath to badger him into teaching us trick or two so like, whatever.
 
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pucflek said:
I am aware, but the lustre of working with elves has worn off for me and quite frankly, Grey Lords are probably lot better at just about every sort of magic known to elf than Nagarythians are. Not so its combat applications, but thats not what we look for these days anyway.

We can finish those skills of in different ways, so the only thing Nagarythians have for themselves is that they are somewhat convenient, and that they are elves, which, at the time we gained the boon, has been a novelty. Its not, anymore.
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The main draw for me is that getting a lot of practice at stealthy murder with a bunch of stealth-murder buddies is a good way to level up before we do some of the really dangerous shit in the Waystone Project, like investigating Mordheim or the Forest of Shadows Nexus, which we would have to do with a lot less backup.

Also, I am really curious to see what nonsense we can pull off by flipping to Protector. Don't you want to send Boney to his balcony to have a long think after we do something bonkers? Trolling the QM is one of the great joys of worshipping Ranald.
 
picklepikkl said:
The main draw for me is that getting a lot of practice at stealthy murder with a bunch of stealth-murder buddies is a good way to level up before we do some of the really dangerous shit in the Waystone Project, like investigating Mordheim or the Forest of Shadows Nexus, which we would have to do with a lot less backup.
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The rub of that is that the practicing will be happening in active warzone that has been in continuous armsrace that developed two sides that are basically specced to take out people like Mathilde and she is a baby by their standards.

(I also frankly don't think that Mordheim will be any more dangerous than under-Karak Eight Peaks, or chaos wastes, for that matter). And the only time we should really venture into Forest of Shadows is with armed detachment anyway. Because the nexus there is most likely Blood Fane, and if you want to take that, you should start looking which two or three provinces could spare an army.
 
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pucflek said:
I am aware, but the lustre of working with elves has worn off for me and quite frankly, Grey Lords are probably lot better at just about every sort of magic known to elf than Nagarythians are. Not so its combat applications, but thats not what we look for these days anyway.

We can finish those skills of in different ways, so the only thing Nagarythians have for themselves is that they are somewhat convenient, and that they are elves, which, at the time we gained the boon, has been a novelty. Its not, anymore.
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The cost/benefit analysis of taking Elfcation aside, I really don't get the "we are already dealing with elves" argument. The Druchii are also elves, but they are very different elves from the Eonir. Asur are different from Eonir, and for that matter Nagarythe is different from, say, Saphery. It's like saying that you have no interset in Bretonnia because we've spent all that time in Stirland so humans are no longer as interesting.
 
mathymancer said:
The cost/benefit analysis of taking Elfcation aside, I really don't get the "we are already dealing with elves" argument. The Druchii are also elves, but they are very different elves from the Eonir. Asur are different from Eonir, and for that matter Nagarythe is different from, say, Saphery. It's like saying that you have no interset in Bretonnia because we've spent all that time in Stirland so humans are no longer as interesting.
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Well, that sounds like something an Elf would say.
EDIT: It applies to both "Elfs are totally different" and "Humans are totally the same", though when I made the post I thought of the second only.
 
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Boney said:
But if she had to guess, her current theory would be Elves are more culturally tribalistic than humans and aren't as prone to anthropomorphizing, or whatever you call it when an Elf does it. Unlike humans who will pack bond with anything, you really need some sort of cultural commonality with Elves to get a foot in the door before they start seeing you as people. And the same goes for other Elves, if perceived cultural differences grow too great they'll be as dismissive towards them as they are to humans. Right now Eonir sees Middenland humans as closer to being people than they do Ulthuan Elves.
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The Eonir would be very upset if you compared them to their kin. They'd probably be less upset if you compared them to the "Good" humans, such as the Middenlanders and the Colleges of Magic, however, because apparently elven tribalism is weird.
 
Similarly, Elves seem to lack the 'cinnamon roll' instinct. Every one of the Elf-beast relationships - Ulthuan in general with Great Eagles and Griffins, Caledorians and Dragons, Ellyrians and horses, Chracians and lions, and so on - are relationships of mutual respect because those critters are extremely deadly or powerful or magical or cunning or wise or whatever. Every time it's framed as something that is earned. They just don't seem to have that 'they are adorable, and I would kill for them' urge that humanity is prone to. So it would seem that you cannot build a relationship with Elves just by endearing yourself to them, you need to be able to earn their respect in some way first.
 
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