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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Don't forget their newest and youngest member: Too Many Conflicting Loyalties
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Tobtorp said:
Personally I'd name her :"might actually be three dwarves stacked on top of each other."

Edit: or at her height, 2 dwarves.
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NSMS said:
Nah, at the moment Mathilde's: So Unsuspicious it's Actually Suspicious.
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"Might Have Boinked Two Generations of Van Hals and The Current Empress, and We're Suspicious About King Belegar"
 
Here's the thing: we're already keeping massive secrets from the Grey College. This "wedge" is honestly just a door-stopper being thrown into a giant chasm. Deli-bird's a couple arcs behind on that front.
 
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Talon TigerDino said:
Here's the thing: we're already keeping massive secrets from the Grey College. This "wedge" is honestly just a door-stopper being thrown into a giant chasm. Deli-bird's a couple arcs behind on that front.
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Aye, but these are not wedges Tzeench can use to corrupt Mathilde (or potentially even knows about) because a) Tzeench hates necromancy, so the Liber Mortis is out, b) Tzeench does not want to push us further into Ranald, so Heidi is out, c) our other secrets are in that ballpark and d) Mathilde, in her mind, has not done anything disloyal, which matters a lot when her state of mind is the target. So she'll endure consequences from these the same way she endured Roswita firing her, or she'd be driven to the arms of powers oppossing Tzeench.

So when Tzeench wants to corrupt her, all these wedges are unusable. But the new one? It is very much not.
 
I mean, if you are betting on him not knowing or using that info just because he didn't mention it or doesn't like it- cool, but that's a pretty big risk in my view.
 
Glau said:
I mean, if you are betting on him not knowing or using that info just because he didn't mention it or doesn't like it- cool, but that's a pretty big risk in my view.
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There is a reason I mentioned the fact that Tzeench may not know it on asides rather than making it the thrust of my argument.

It is because not knowing is not central to my point. Even if Tzeench knows, these wedges cannot be used because the rift they'd create would not be one to corrupt Mathilde, which is the aim here. Sure, maybe they are the "act out of spite" button in the equation, but they definitely do not achieve objectives, at best, they are the kind of stuff that ensures the opponent loses too.
 
I doubt Ranald would care?

Maybe if she actually used Necromancy (or Dhar in general), but just reading the book and proceeding to use that knowledge to help the fight against Necromancers probably isn't something he'd mind.
 
In actually I think Mathilde's problem would be "if we ever fought the dwarves would probably side with the dwarves." That being said that puts her pretty high up on the trustworthy list because A: while it's not impossible the empire at large is pretty unlikely to get into a war with the dwarves and B: mathilde herself is the top expert in Making Sure The Dwarves And Empire Don't Fight.

If they did fight though I think probably the rest of the movers and shakers at the grey college has a full expectation Mathilde would side with the dwarves.
 
I feel like Ranald would probably have said something if he cared about Mathilde reading the forbidden book, and that he probably didn't because he's a god of theft and deception, and we certainly are using stolen knowledge that we most definitely cannot tell anyone about.

But I do think he'd be worried if she actually used necromancy, because most of what necromancy actually does is against Ranald's strictures. Ranald is a god of freedom, and necromancy can enslave people's souls after their deaths. Ranald is a god of cunning, and necromancy (all Dhar uses, really) is universally used as brute force than any real elegance.

But going ahead and reading the thing people would most definitely persecute her for, as long as she's not actually hurting anyone? That's within his sphere.
 
reignonyrparade said:
In actually I think Mathilde's problem would be "if we ever fought the dwarves would probably side with the dwarves." That being said that puts her pretty high up on the trustworthy list because A: while it's not impossible the empire at large is pretty unlikely to get into a war with the dwarves and B: mathilde herself is the top expert in Making Sure The Dwarves And Empire Don't Fight.

If they did fight though I think probably the rest of the movers and shakers at the grey college has a full expectation Mathilde would side with the dwarves.
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It really depends i think. If the empire decided they needed to fight K8P then yes, i could see Mathilde siding with belegar but not the other karaks. It's the only one she really has a emotional connection with.
 
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reignonyrparade said:
In actually I think Mathilde's problem would be "if we ever fought the dwarves would probably side with the dwarves." That being said that puts her pretty high up on the trustworthy list because A: while it's not impossible the empire at large is pretty unlikely to get into a war with the dwarves and B: mathilde herself is the top expert in Making Sure The Dwarves And Empire Don't Fight.

If they did fight though I think probably the rest of the movers and shakers at the grey college has a full expectation Mathilde would side with the dwarves.
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Yeah, if we ever caught wind of some Elector Count trying to pick a fight with the dwarves and they refused to be mediated, there'd probably be a rash of dead nobles until people stopped.
 
Unless the empire needs to fight K8P specifically, I think the Grey College's strategy for Mathilde in an Empire Dwarf war would be to have her hold down the fort somewhere else in the empire/laurelorn/etc. while the rest of the college handled the actual war. Just because there's a war on doesn't mean cultists stop being a problem - likely the opposite actually - so someone needs to stay back, and it may as well be the person most likely to cause problems if present.
 
reignonyrparade said:
In actually I think Mathilde's problem would be "if we ever fought the dwarves would probably side with the dwarves." That being said that puts her pretty high up on the trustworthy list because A: while it's not impossible the empire at large is pretty unlikely to get into a war with the dwarves and B: mathilde herself is the top expert in Making Sure The Dwarves And Empire Don't Fight.

If they did fight though I think probably the rest of the movers and shakers at the grey college has a full expectation Mathilde would side with the dwarves.
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I'm not so sure. I remember when I was reading up on the thread, it came up when she was asked to advise the Chamberlain of the Seal on how the Karaz Ankor viewed the Marienburg matter, it was automatically assumed that her oaths to the Empire would override any oaths she made to the dwarfs. Hence why she couldn't just go "Sorry can't answer, dwarf secrets".

Now that was the Empire's foreign minister, not the Grey College, but it does show the view the Empire takes on such matters. Close relations with and aid to the dwarfs is good, but the Empire is expected to come first.
 
Blackout said:
I'm not so sure. I remember when I was reading up on the thread, it came up when she was asked to advise the Chamberlain of the Seal on how the Karaz Ankor viewed the Marienburg matter, it was automatically assumed that her oaths to the Empire would override any oaths she made to the dwarfs. Hence why she couldn't just go "Sorry can't answer, dwarf secrets".
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How much knowledge do you think the relevant parties outside the grey college have of "Kurtis Krammovitch is a quintuple agent"? All this tells me is that the grey college tries not to advertise how suspicious its own leadership is.

And like, yes I'm sure that the legal principle is that her oaths to the empire are SUPPOSED to come first but also... oaths to the empire are supposed to keep people from becoming black magisters and that's still a thing that happens.
 
The Phoenixian said:
Last time this came up, I think it was established that Mathilde was something like...

Loves Her Creature Comforts, Suspiciously Adroit at Coming Into Money, May Have Dated Her Boss, and Concerningly Good At Understanding Dark Magic.
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Yep-

Boney said:
Mathilde likes her creature comforts, keeps just so happening to stumble over big piles of money that can fund those creature comforts, has a worrying ability to grasp forbidden magics, might have been banging a Van Hal, and is probably more fond of Dwarves than she is of humans.
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Plus the Dwarf thing.

(Though notably it doesn't specify which Van Hal.)
 
reignonyrparade said:
And like, yes I'm sure that the legal principle is that her oaths to the empire are SUPPOSED to come first but also... oaths to the empire are supposed to keep people from becoming black magisters and that's still a thing that happens.
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During the Magister exam, Mathilde first listed her loyalties as "Grey College first, Empire second" before reversing after realizing that the Articles say it's supposed to be the other way around.

I think it's safe to say, in her own mind the Empire is now in 3rd.
 
The Phoenixian said:
The dwarf bit being kind of telling right now, given which faction we're currently voting to tell literally everything we're allowed to and which the leading vote is hiding something from.
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I think that's more that telling anybody that a demon wants us to play everchosen is a horrible idea, rather than the specifics of who we're telling (or not telling, as the case may be).
 
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