I recall that last time I brought it up it was suggested to be too mundane to really be worth much CF compared to the other papers, but yeah, I'd rather it didn't stay on the backlog, staring at us tauntingly.
And what if they are interested, we attempt to codify it, and then roll like garbage and RoW is suddenly uncodifiable? Don't promise things before we know we can deliver them.
Too many variables for there to be one answer. Different people with different paradigms have different levels of difficulty translating their spells into something communicable, and experience as a teacher or deep knowledge of magical theory or knowing multiple magical languages can (not will, can) make it easier. And whether a Battle Magic spell is actually 'true' Battle Magic or just an inefficiently codified spell that has sub-BM level effects is always open to debate.
This suggests that even an exceptionally bad roll to codify RoW would only make it harder to cast. Also, it's another good reason to learn High Nehekaharan, Arcane Khazalid and Aonoquean, as it may make it easier.
As may getting taught deep knowledge of magical theory by the Eonir before codifying the spell, which they may be willing to do in return for the codified spell and the mist bridge.
It might make it easier to communicate magical concepts to people who speak those languages, but Boney has repeatedly confirmed that knowing more magical languages does not make you better at using magic.
What makes Mathilde better at magic is her deepening her relationship with and understanding of Ulgu. Anoqeyan might have words for concepts that Reikspiel and Praestantia don't, but that only makes communicating about magic easier, not using it.
The majority of Grey Wizards don't speak those languages, so learning them would not help us communicate how to use the spell to them.
Regarding the Idol of Gork paper: I really don't think there is any reason to worry about some sort of "wait, why didn't you tell us before" reaction from the Grey Order. The worship of Only Gork is not a going concern because Mathilde personally ended it; it's a historical/theological curiosity now, not something people need to worry about to do their jobs. The scholars might be annoyed we didn't let them know sooner, but not, like, Algard; thus far when there's been important stuff for Mathilde to report, she's automatically reported it, and when it's been important but could implicate us in some awkward circumstances Boney has given us an explicit vote about that. "Hey, a while back there was this weird cult of orcs, which I eradicated, and here's the cool magical construct they were attempting to wreck face with" isn't going to land Mathilde in hot water.
Like, I can imagine that maybe Boney will give us a subvote of "how honest are you about the possession fandango" during the paper writing, which might have consequences, but not just the choice of writing the paper. And clearing out our greenskin magic backlog seems pretty reasonable if we do a Max dictation action, while we wait for Egrimm to write the damn Windfall paper after he's confident we aren't going to be mad.
It might make it easier to communicate magical concepts to people who speak those languages, but Boney has repeatedly confirmed that knowing more magical languages does not make you better at using magic.
Why not? Codifying a spell makes it a black box anyway, so if we'd used concepts from another magical language in the process of producing the codified version, how would that effect them?
Boney was explicit in the quote I cited that knowing other magical languages could help with codification. You are directly contradicting that. It's not certain that it would in any given case, but it's not certain that it would't either: in your interpretation, knowing multiple magical languages would never help codify a spell.
If that's the attitude we take, then Laurelorn will never share it's magical lore with the Empire and they'd be absolutely right not to.
Both them and the Empire would be made better off if we share our knowledge with each other, and offering Rite of Way is a very good first step to proving that to them.
I had a lot of ideas for this, which is why it's more than a handful of lines, but I probably didn't manage to pull off many of them. Anyway, here's a little snippet about delving maybe a little too deeply into a Wind of Magic. I will not be taking questions.
Why are you here?
Magister Patriarch Hendrich von Varrel moved through the corridors of the Grey College, four Magisters Vigilant following close behind him. Internally, he was still considering whether to even go through with this, even with the imposing guard at his back. The fact that she had managed to get so deep into the College without anyone noticing until she decided to send her invitation, could be seen as an attack. Or at least a challenge. On the other hand, it was her.
Mathilde Weber was famous indeed, famous almost to the point of infamy, and that "almost" was what had - as it should - always concerned the Grey Order. That and the manner of her disappearance decades ago.
But she was famous; and famous for her opposition to the enemies of the Empire and the Karaz Ankor both.
As he turned another corner, Hendrich slowed down, wondering for the briefest moment where he was going, before Shadowmancer discipline reasserted itself and he remembered. He focused on the stories: about her legendary expeditions, about her wresting the Empire's Waystones from the control of the Asur. She was famous, uniquely so for one of their Order, even if many details of the stories were still only known among their kind. He'd known those details ...
Hendrich almost stopped again, hesitating to call the meeting off and give the Magisters Vigilant the signal to apprehend her. But instead focused once more on what he knew about the visitor and held on to it.
Finally, he stood before the door to the room the visitor had appropriated. It was one of the rooms where the Order met with high-ranked visitors, mostly the leaders of the other Colleges, but occasionally the Emperor's close advisors.
He glanced back to his escort, four grim faces nodded back. He opened the door and the five of them stepped into the cloud of Ulgu.
The room was only faintly lit, though that wasn't too uncommon in the Grey College, and seemed to be as he had last seen it. Witch Sight did not add much to his observation, there was a lot of Ulgu present, but then that too was common enough around here. The only obvious difference was the shadowed figure sitting in one of the comfortable seats facing the door. It looked more like a silhouette, a black outline of a person in robes and a witch hunter hat. As he and his escort moved into the room, the figure moved. As it did so, it seemed to dissolve into smokey shadows for a brief moment. Shadows escaping towards the darkest parts of them room before being pulled back swirling into the form of a person, now standing up.
Once more he almost gave the signal, but no spell had been cast, only the Grey Wind moving according to its own mysterious whims. The figure was now simply standing.
As the door closed behind them, he moved towards the figure, stopping to next to the seat opposite the figure's.
"Hello, Magister Patriarch, it has been a long time. The last time I saw you, you had only just been assigned a Master." The figure's voice was indistinct, soft and seeming to come from anywhere in the room.
"Greetings," he said, before hesitating. What was their name again? They were famous, he knew that, he could remember ... some things about them. But somehow their name was gone from his mind. "Why are you here?" Was the only thing he could think to say.
The figure exhaled softly. "I was never that keen on small talk anyway," the figure said, seemingly mostly to themselves.
"Why am I here? There's no one reason, really. But for one thing, I know where you keep the nice drinks."
And with that, the figure took a step to the side before dissolving once more. It coalesced an instant later next to the drinks cabinet.
He tensed up immediately, even though again, no spell seemed to have been cast, Ulgu simply placidly shifting around the room. As the figure started to prepare a drink, not caring that their arms partially turned to smoke as it did so, he let himself relax again. To a tiny degree at least.
A moment of swirling shadow, and the figure reappeared in the couch, outline of a snifter in their hand. "So, why am I here? Well, I was checking up on the nexuses in the Forest of Shadows and ..." The figure proceeded to tell him about over a dozen different situations all over the Empire. Skaven, greenskins, vampires, a few proscribed cults. All somehow mentioned as an afterthought, a diversion from something else they happened to be doing at the time. He asked his question several more times, their anecdotes never quite seeming to answer it.
Finally the figure put their glass on the table next to them, and swirled upright again. He started, ready to give the signal.
"It has been nice to see you again, Hendrich, but I should probably go. We can ever only keep this up for so long." They exhaled. "Do give my regards to your former Master, I miss her a lot." A soft cough. "She was so like me in some ways, but so different in others." Another exhale. "And if you happen to send him a message, tell my King I have not forgotten him."
"Now, I apologize for taking up so much of your time, Magister Patriarch, and I will take my leave." And with a lighter voice: "Don't be alarmed."
Ulgu suddenly rushed to the door in a wave. He turned in alarm, as did his escort, only to realize he'd fallen for the oldest trick in the book. Behind him he could feel, for the first time since entering the room, a spell being cast.
By the time he turned around again, the signal to apprehend them given, the visitor was gone.
The Magister Patriarch blinked as his eyes were overwhelmed by the Grey college's soft lighting.
The only evidence of her presence was an empty glass on a table. Mathilde Weber, most famous Shadowmancer in the history of the Empire, was long gone.
[ ] Plan Lizards, Ley Lines and Mushrooms Oh My 3.0
-[ ] MAX: Study an artifact: Books and rubbings from an Asur explorer of Lustria and the Southlands
-[ ] JOHANN: Explore the wonders of the ancient and beautiful city of Tor Lithanel.(Eike)
-[ ] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm (specify what)
-[ ] Waystone: Attempt to create a tributary (Dreaming Wood tributary, Haléthan tributary, Bereginya tributary): Tochter, Cadaeth, Aksel, Niedzwenka
--[ ] Coin Gambler
-[ ] Waystone: Leylines Rivers (Sarvoi Hatalath, Elrisse and Tochter,Cadeath )
-[ ] Waystone: Runes (Thorek Hatalath, Elrisse, Tochter)
-[ ] Serenity: Write a paper: Windsoak Mushrooms
-[ ] EIC: Get into the Laurelorn Charcoal Trade
-[ ] KAU: Go about recruiting an army of scribes so you can start copying entire libraries of material.
I like making use of webmat to get 3 actions for 2 if reasonably possible, but I feel even more strongly about putting Max on the shrooms rewrite, in the hopes of getting his +10
I like making use of webmat to get 3 actions for 2 if reasonably possible, but I feel even more strongly about putting Max on the shrooms rewrite, in the hopes of getting his +10
I was thinking one of the coins/currency would do, but I'd prefer to get them out in a sequence if possible (or at least only to be interrupted by the Big Book of AV; so one of the Ork papers).
I'd be fine with either tbh but since there's pushback on the Only Gork paper; "Waaagh energy and magic" would be my go-to.
I like that division of project members, but I think Zlata should be on Runes as well (you excluded her here).
That way there's a representative of every language and culture group. I imagine diversity of perspectives and histories would be helpful when deciphering magical Runes.
I've been doing a little bit of a reread of a few chapters, and came across a mention of the articles that brought up a thought:
Article 15 states the purpose of the Magisters is to seek out and counter that which is 'beyond the means of the Templars'.
Thing is, such things have been around for thousands of years before the Magisters were a thing, so what happened to threats that were 'beyond the means of the Templars' before then? I can't imagine they were just allowed to spread ruin with impunity. Were they just drowned in more and more Templars, so really this just means 'beyond the practical means of the Templars'? Were they simply discovered and then necessitated an army being raised to deal with them? Were they dealt with the miracle working priests?
All sorts of things were able to spread ruin with impunity during the Time of Three Emperors. One example is that at the end of the First Vampire War, the Reiklander Empire wanted to purge Sylvania but the other two Emperors teamed up to prevent him from doing so because they thought it would make him popular enough to beat them.
I'm yet to decide exactly what form that would take, but my thoughts for now is that an EIC option is a poor fit for an uncodified magical effect, since very little of it can be effectively outsourced to the Hochlander or other EIC personnel. If it was codified the Hochlander could handle it, because he'd be able to understand and communicate enough basic details of how it worked to prevent negotiations from getting bogged down in questions.
Mathilde. I think Jedi precog keeps obiwan alive and lightsabers can probably block branalhune but not disperse the force of the strike, so obiwan gets tossed around. But the key is, if obiwan disengages, Mathilde can catch him. Between shadow teleports and steed of shadow, the reverse is not true.
Just my take. Systems have wildly varying power levels as baseline abilities.
If neither used supernatural powers? Obi-Wan, no doubt. Mathilde has experience fighting in war as a general from the back, from the front, as a guerilla warrior causing chaos behind enemy lines, and in life-threatening single-opponent fights, but even then she spends most of her time being a cool nerd. She does research projects and cool spy shit.
If Obi-Wan starred in Divided Loyalties: A Jedi's Quest, a quest covering the Clone Wars, he would spend 80% of his AP on actual battlefields, training people (soldiers, Anakin), and only some of it on cool spy shit. I'd say his swordsmanship skill would be at Grandmaster, with a high raw Martial. In-universe, Obi-Wan is referred to by Mace Windu, local badass, as "the master of the classical form" (Soresu), and also very skilled in others.
Mathilde's pretty good, but she's not yet at Greatsword Master and also a good chunk of her prowess in actual combat comes from her spells.
Assuming they can't cut through each other, Branulhune is the superior sword, but Obi could simply focus on fighting via dodges - like Mathilde he would fight unencumbered, but a lightsaber weighs nothing whereas a Greatsword has more restrictive movements.
If neither used supernatural powers? Obi-Wan, no doubt. Mathilde has experience fighting in war as a general from the back, from the front, as a guerilla warrior causing chaos behind enemy lines, and in life-threatening single-opponent fights, but even then she spends most of her time being a cool nerd. She does research projects and cool spy shit.
If Obi-Wan starred in Divided Loyalties: A Jedi's Quest, a quest covering the Clone Wars, he would spend 80% of his AP on actual battlefields, training people (soldiers, Anakin), and only some of it on cool spy shit. I'd say his swordsmanship skill would be at Grandmaster at minimum, with a high raw Martial. In-universe, Obi-Wan is referred to by Mace Windu, local badass, as "the master of the classical form" (Soresu), and also very skilled in others.
Mathilde's pretty good, but she's not yet at Greatsword Master and also a good chunk of her prowess in actual combat comes from her spells.
Assuming they can't cut through each other, Branulhune is the superior sword, but Obi could simply focus on fighting via dodges - like Mathilde he would fight unencumbered, but a lightsaber weighs nothing whereas a Greatsword has more restrictive movements.
Doesn't Braulhune also weigh nothing, due to Runes?
Nitpicking aside, I agree that Obi-Wan would probably win, Mathilde's martial strength is largely based on her magical doo-dads and spells, and without them it's entirely possible to beat her with superior strength and skill, as seen with the Khorny Kurgan.
On the other hand, I think if mystic powers and special items (other than the swords) were involved, Mathilde would absolutely win. See: that Necrarch.
"No powers" is a tricky thing to apply to a Jedi, because of how subtle and pervasive the Force is in helping them.
It's also a tricky thing to apply to Mathilde as well, for that matter - arguably her being in top physical form while in her fourties is a magical effect caused by her soul being partially composed of Ulgu.
No powers .... Mattie might actually take this. Kenobi is definitely the better swordsman and is probably in better shape .... but the force is way too integral of a sense for him to be able to adapt to just not having it on no notice.
You can't just ask him not to use it either, it's a sense he relies on like he does his sense of balance or hearing or sight. He could avoid actively using it, but the only way the force wouldn't give him an advantage is, I don't know, magic collar or room that completely shuts him off from the force, and that's just unfair to Kenobi. You might as well start the fight by messing with his inner ear so his sense of balance is messed up, or insist that he can only use his weaker hand.
He just doesn't have any experience operating like that.
No powers .... Mattie might actually take this. Kenobi is definitely the better swordsman and is probably in better shape .... but the force is way too integral of a sense for him to be able to adapt to just not having it on no notice.
Oh yeah, I guess that makes sense. And we've seen the difference between how he fights when he is and isn't in tune with the Force - it's like night and day. Take away the telekinesis and the like but let him keep his combat precog and he'll win pretty hard like @Parabola said, but without any Force abilities whatsoever, he'd handily beat mooks but lose to hero units.
Mathilde. I think Jedi precog keeps obiwan alive and lightsabers can probably block branalhune but not disperse the force of the strike, so obiwan gets tossed around. But the key is, if obiwan disengages, Mathilde can catch him. Between shadow teleports and steed of shadow, the reverse is not true.
Just my take. Systems have wildly varying power levels as baseline abilities.
If we expand this to include spells, then it's only fair to give Obi-Wan telekinesis, which is a pretty big advantage. We've seen him crack rock and throw boulders with it. He could easily catch Mathilde with it if she tried to disengage. If he were to push her into a wall, that'd hurt her pretty bad even through her armour. As for Branulhune's strength, Parabola hit it square on: Obi-Wan can adopt a dodge-based defence. If clunky, mechanical Vader can dominate with that kind of defence, then Obi-Wan can too.
...Now I'm thinking that a Star Wars/CK-ish quest would be cool. Direct Force powers could easily be Piety-based, with Learning being more about direct technological knowledge. Star Wars is mostly fantasy in space, so to speak, so thematically speaking it wouldn't even be that hard to replicate. It's just that the scale's a bit bigger, giant weapons are more commonplace, and continuity is very loose.
It's a shame I'm not actually that much of a Star Wars person or I'd seriously consider running something like that.
