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Guys I have a question. Remember how one of the ways to create Waystones network was about a god dedicating themselves to land in order to purify the dhar? IT is pretty much what Ancienth Widow did right? Have we considered doing the same with Sylvania? Use the bog gods who seem to already doing something similiar and we can drain Sylnavina of dhar and make it impossible for vampires to comeback.

It would also be decent experiment on creating our own network!
I think we should let them accrue some influence and start to establish themselves as a major figure before we try something like that. They did kind of come out of nowhere for most people, being unknowns outside Sylvania.

I don't think Roswita would be against it per se. Anything to get rid of the Vampires. But it's likely that we'd have to run it by the person actually in charge of Sylvania, who is likely to be Nyklaus.
 
Sylvania also has the issue that the Dhar accumulation in the soil isn't just from necromancers and vampires mucking around, or the natural congealing of the Winds, there's also the metric tonnes of Warpstone dust that's been mixed into the soil for over a thousand years at this point.
 
Guys I have a question. Remember how one of the ways to create Waystones network was about a god dedicating themselves to land in order to purify the dhar? IT is pretty much what Ancienth Widow did right? Have we considered doing the same with Sylvania? Use the bog gods who seem to already doing something similiar and we can drain Sylnavina of dhar and make it impossible for vampires to comeback.

It would also be decent experiment on creating our own network!
What Kislev is doing - to the best of our understanding - is take the magic the Waystones funnel and turn it around in a loop. This would normally cause it to curdle to Dhar, but the Widow is instead turning it into her own divine magic. This requires an actual Waystone network to exist, and the Widow's contribution isn't making any difference as far as the rate of purifying the land goes - before this network was set up Kislev's Dhar flowed into the rest of the network, now it instead gets turned into Ice Magic, the only difference is that before the Vortex and Ulthuan got all the magic and now The Widow gets it.

If Sylvania had a Waystone network that runs in a loop instead of being connected to the outside network, then we might use the bog Gods to solve the problem (the other way to solve this would be to figure out leylines). But Sylvania doesn't have such a network. It doesn't have any extant network, its Waystones having been destroyed by vampires and skaven and necromancers centuries ago. If we get to the point where we can make new Waystones and we get enough information on Kislev's network to understand how it functions and how to replicate it and the bog Gods are legitimized enough that feeding them bad magic isn't a political no-go, then we can consider it. But chickens, eggs, you know how it goes.

By the way, I did think that we might want to use the bog Gods to make Belthani tributaries if the Haléthan tributary goes well, because Halétha is a regional Goddess and if She can substitute for the Earth Mother maybe the regional bog Gods can do the same, but that won't work either because tributaries still require a Waystone network to latch on to.
 
Guys I have a question. Remember how one of the ways to create Waystones network was about a god dedicating themselves to land in order to purify the dhar? IT is pretty much what Ancienth Widow did right? Have we considered doing the same with Sylvania? Use the bog gods who seem to already doing something similiar and we can drain Sylnavina of dhar and make it impossible for vampires to comeback.

It would also be decent experiment on creating our own network!
I don't know if Manhorak and co are strong enough for this. They're definitely no Ancient Widow. But yeah, if we can't find a way to connect a Waystone into the network (and it seems it might very well be impossible) then this might be the next best thing.
That or making the Stir into Dhar drain and get it all sucked out by the Stirland Waystones, maybe!
 
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I don't know if Manhorak and co are strong enough for this. They're definitely no Ancient Widow. But yeah, if we can't find a way to connect a Waystone into the network (and it seems it might very well be impossible) then this might be the next best thing.
That or making the Stir into Dhar drain and get it all sucked out by the Stirland Waystones, maybe!
I guess that depends on if the god also gains something from the dhar.

Currently, Sylvanian waystones are disconnected from Ulthuan, so the gods eating the energy right back up doesn't really detract from the vortex.
 
If we get to the point where we can make new Waystones and we get enough information on Kislev's network to understand how it functions and how to replicate it and the bog Gods are legitimized enough that feeding them bad magic isn't a political no-go, then we can consider it. But chickens, eggs, you know how it goes.
I don't think it is chicken and egg question. I think it is rather good end point to aim for. We know what we need to do and just need to do it even if if it is long way off.

I mean main idea is to build new Waystones and at the moment we can't connect those to existing network since passwords for those is Ulthani secret. But by replicating Kiev solution we can bypass the need to have those network connection passwords and can instead use our own waystones to create a loop. We just need to convince Manhorak and build the network.

/different idea.

Unless of course we want to connect new network to Dwarven one which is another option... we have not considered. Huh! I am on a roll because I have another idea.

Has Thorek asked about dwarven network? Their passwords might be different. Hell High King on Throne of Power might be connect waystones to dwarven network. And Thorek might be able to help high king figure out how to do it. We really should do the Dwarven network survey next turn to see if it comes up. Infact do both dwarven and kislev surveys so no one is slighted and we can compare them.

I mean Empire probably would like to give dwarves all the magic if it makes dwarves stronger and takes it away from them. They are allies already. 'Better to empower Ankor rather than Ulthani' would be a very easy sell.
 
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I mean main idea is to build new Waystones and at the moment we can't connect those to existing network since passwords for those is Ulthani secret. But by replicating Kiev solution we can bypass the need to have those network connection passwords and can instead use our own waystones to create a loop. We just need to convince Manhorak and build the network.
But we can't make a new Waystone network without figuring out leylines - we need to connect our new Waystones to each other, if not to the wider network.
Unless of course we want to connect new network to Dwarven one which is another option... we have not considered. Huh! I am on a roll because I have another idea.

Has Thorek asked about dwarven network? Their passwords might be different. Hell High King on his Throne might be connect waystones to dwarven network. And Thorek might be able to help high king figure out how to do it. We really should do the Dwarven network survey next turn to see if it comes up.

I mean Empire probably would like to give dwarves all the magic if it makes dwarves stronger and takes it away from them. They are allies already. Better empowering Ankor rather than Ulthani would be a very easy sell.
Mathilde muses on this, and this is what she had to say:
Perhaps the Karaz Ankor network was not built entirely separately. Perhaps it was once connected. That the Eonir noticed Karak Eight Peaks reconnecting would suggest that at least a ghost of a connection between the two still lingers. Perhaps it was severed long ago, perhaps out of spite, perhaps out of caution, and perhaps the Dwarves found that once the rubble had been cleared and the bodies buried from the Time of Woes, they no longer knew how to reconnect it.
So she thinks the dwarves don't know how to connect to the wider network, which makes sense to me. If there's one thing we know for sure about Thorgrim is that he really really wants more magic flowing into his network, if he knew how to take a piece of Ulthuan's pie he would have done it already.
 
I honestly don't know if humans even make sense as having a single point they spread from- nations like Cathay and Nehekhara sprung up fairly early and on opposite ends of the continent, and neither are anywhere close to Norsca.
Maybe the Earth Mother/Rhya took the humans on a field trip through the World Roots and some of the kiddies got lost along the way. :V
 
Speaking of bog gods, I saw this article today about real bog bodies, some of which apparently were religious sacrifices. I hadn't realized there was this much of a history to them, but it's an interesting read. It'd be pretty creepy to stumble on one of these even in our world, let alone in a world like Warhammer where it can get up and eat you.

www.bbc.com

The mystery of the human sacrifices buried in Europe's bogs

Uncannily well-preserved bodies from the ancient world occasionally surface Northern Europe's bogs. Stranger even than their remarkable preservation is the manner of their deaths.
 
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I can tell you straight up as someone who read most of End Times Nagash that Estalia and Tilea were destroyed by the Skaven offscreen. That in itself is a gigantic letdown worthy of reproach. However, Josh Reynolds was infamous for those responses, so take what he says with a grain of salt.

I believe he is the one who stated the whole "Settra defeats Kholek Suneater offscreen" thing that became a staple of community groupmind, but most of his responses were... controversial. Likely because he didn't run them by GW and was his personal opinion, but people took them as fact.

My understanding was that Reynolds was the individual who wrote some of the first, and most notably the last canon End Times novel, which IMO does somewhat elevate it from simply being an opinion. It's by no means word of god, but as I recall reading a really long wiki entry of his total responses, he acknowledges from the beginning that he's just submitting his best guesses or frameworks for what happened beyond the lens of the novels based on his expertise as director of both proverbial book-ends.

Of course, it's worth saying that there's a strong argument (underlined by this quest) that the Old World narrative would be best served by throwing the series, book ends included, out entirely.

Reading on Estalia and Tilea, it's incredibly disappointing for a number of reasons that they simply went under off-screen, particularly to the Skaven, who of the human realms they're indisputably most aware of given their proximity to Skavenblight. I would be far happy with a theory involving them getting blindsided by literally anyone else, but even given the power of proliferation of the Skaven across the entirety of the world, seeing the Dogs of War, Myrmidia and Sartosa made effectively into redshirts to develop their threat sticks pretty hard in my craw.

Given the mirroring of the Sartosa pirates and Dogs of War, it would have been much more interesting seeing them rolled into some sort of naval faction by the End Times crisis, so that there was some sort of significant Good naval faction to balance out the Evil ones (Dreadfleet, Dark Elves, Norscan raiders, indistinct underwater gribblies, etc.); reading through the world, it feels to a great degree that any other possible naval powers (Marienburg, Nordland, the Asur, Barak Varr) are largely overshadowed. It's understandable why of course - they wanted to focus on the land battles, which is where the figs are - it's the same reason powerful hero mounts were constantly getting ganked, so they could have epic duels. But disappointing nonetheless.
 
So, I suspect we will find the three seasons question is answered by the weather of Albion. Which I believe would be Wet, Cold-and-Wet, and Warm-and-Wet.
 
So what's up with the forest around Karag Dum? Presumabely the desert we can explain by the fact that Khsar was God of the desert wind, and the forest is explained by the fact that Morghur is God of the Beastman. The being that guards Dum can seemingly transform its environment to something that fits its old roles. The desert contains sand from the region that we would expect considering his origins:
You remember what Cyrston said. "Anywhere in the northern Empire with that sort of sand?"

"Nowhere near. All I know of that would is the southern Dark Lands, Araby, and Nehekhara."
But the forest is a bit stranger:
"They're definitely Old World species," Journeyman Cyrston says, peering through a telescope. "I'd need to get up close and collect seeds and samples and bring my own Magesight to bear to say with any certainty, but if I had to guess, I'd say northern. Drakwald, Laurelorn, or Forest of Shadows."
Drakwald, Laurelorn, and the Forest of Shadows don't seem to fit Morghur's origins, at least as far as we know. Are those just trees from the Forest of Arden, where Morghur was last spotted and where he has made his lair for quite some time? Looking at maps of the old world the Forest of Arden seems about as northern as the other forests listed, it could easily have similar trees. Was it that simple? Did Cryston just fuck up and only bring up Empire forests? I guess maybe he's just never been to Bretonnia...

EDIT: I see this has already been suggested way back when we were at Dum:
Here Cyrston uses the term "Old World Species, Northern". He then uses Forests from the Empire such as Laurelorn, Forest of Shadows and Drakwald as examples. The question is, has Cyrston been to Bretonnia? The Forest of Arden, which used to be the lair of Morghur and the last place he was seen in, is also in Northern Bretonnia, which is also in the Old World. The Forest of Arden is roughly level with Laurelorn/Forest of Shadows but is simply farther west as a result of being in Bretonnia, so it strikes me as likely that the Forest was plucked out from Arden.
 
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What Dum is doing, do you guys think it damages Chaos someway? I got the impression that it wasn't doing anything but protecting Dum but Borek say it does so I am curious.
 
What Dum is doing, do you guys think it damages Chaos someway? I got the impression that it wasn't doing anything but protecting Dum but Borek say it does so I am curious.
He mentioned that the souls of the dwarfs of dum were reforged as weapons against chaos so I'm guessing that any dwarf we meet from there will have significant differences.
If those are only metaphysical or if they literally became "warriors against chaos" i don't know.
 
He mentioned that the souls of the dwarfs of dum were reforged as weapons against chaos so I'm guessing that any dwarf we meet from there will have significant differences.
If those are only metaphysical or if they literally became "warriors against chaos" i don't know.
Makes me wonder if that's just about Dum acting as a bulwark against Chaos, or if after sufficient tutelage from Morghur they'll start launching their own attacks on the Chaos tribes?
 
Obviously what Borek was really saying is that Karak Dum has turned to Malal worship, and that Morghur's real identity is Malal./s
 
Apropos of nothing, I have just found another good reason for us to learn Battle Magic: so that Boney has a reason to write in detail how exactly they work.
 
Torturing Boney by making them come up with more and more detailed lore for the quest is as valid a reason as any, I'll admit.
 
I am for learning/making Battle Magic, cause that's the oath towards increasing our magic score, getting the arcane marks and becoming an Ulgu being like our pal Cython is a Hysh being.
 
Presumabely the desert we can explain by the fact that Khsar was God of the desert wind
Is it weird that Cor-Dum has access to Khsar powers at all? Like were those dormant in Mhorgur and he just didn't use them previously because his beastman followers loved forests?

Or did whatever binding the Dawi did have to regress him through Khsar to reach the Teacher/Warden and that reintegrated desert winds?

On a semi related topic I'm thinking Mhorgur's mutation aura is response to the trauma of all his followers in Tylos getting turned into Skaven.
 
I would like to learn to bind demons first or codify rite of way, really any of the many things we on backlog. Let's try to go through backlog first people.
 
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