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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Altom said:
You know. After reading how you were enjoying AoS so much, I was almost considering giving it another chance. And then I have read that paragraph and only emotions I have felt were sadness and disgust.
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The Phoenix Kings are long dead. I actually think their ultimate fate is far better than what happened in End Times. Instead of suffering an unending torture in Slaanesh's stomach, their souls have experienced complete oblivion after being consumed by Morathi, and she gets to achieve what so many others were given by her hard work and long term planning.

If that makes you feel sadness and disgust, then you will not enjoy Age of Sigmar. People who have strong feelings about WHF will never appreciate AoS for what it is. They will always yearn for something that isn't there, and nothing will satisfy them other than going back to how it used to be.
 
Codex said:
People who have strong feelings about WHF will never appreciate AoS for what it is. They will always yearn for something that isn't there, and nothing will satisfy them other than going back to how it used to be.
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Can't read AoS because it only makes me think about Fantasy
Can't read Fantasy because I can only think about it's ending

40K rules supreme, I guess
 
Codex said:
The Phoenix Kings are long dead. I actually think their ultimate fate is far better than what happened in End Times. Instead of suffering an unending torture in Slaanesh's stomach, their souls have experienced complete oblivion after being consumed by Morathi, and she gets to achieve what so many others were given by her hard work and long term planning.

If that makes you feel sadness and disgust, then you will not enjoy Age of Sigmar. People who have strong feelings about WHF will never appreciate AoS for what it is. They will always yearn for something that isn't there, and nothing will satisfy them other than going back to how it used to be.
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It was not about the Phoenix kings. It's about GW first killing the Old World in most undignified way possible and then propping up their replacement world with important and recognizable names from the world they butchered. It's about GW not having the spine to let the Old World stay dead and instead butchering and skinning the corpse and then using the bits in a blatant attempt to pull in the old fans with familiar names.
 
Altom said:
It was not about the Phoenix kings. It's about GW first killing the Old World in most undignified way possible and then propping up their replacement world with important and recognizable names from the world they butchered. It's about GW not having the spine to let the Old World stay dead and instead butchering and skinning the corpse and then using the bits in a blatant attempt to pull in the old fans with familiar names.
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The Old World is dead. Not everything in it is. It's quite literally called "Age of Sigmar". What did you expect?

This isn't even butchering or skinning the corpse. The Phoenix Kings weren't even named in that paragraph. They're already dead, they were just given a final resting place as part of Morathi. I have no fricking idea how this is supposed to bring back old fans?

"Oh yeah, Morathi in Broken Realms eats all the Phoenix Kings to become a Goddess. They mentioned the Phoenix Kings in one and two pages, retconned the shitty lore from End Times, and then they're gone now. Doesn't that want you to come back to AoS because it excites you to see them again?"

It's more like giving closure to a shitty ending than it is a "blatant ploy to pull in the old fans". That assertion is truly baffling.
 
IronFist said:
With new fans, though.

I don't think the majority of original game's player base migrated to AOS.

I for one can't really look past the mangled names. (i could, but don't wanna)
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A good number of old fans like Age of Sigmar in its current state. Just because a vocal minority tries to make it known at every moment that they hate Age of Sigmar doesn't mean that it's not popular with some of the old base. Off the top of my head, two prominent youtubers, AoS Coach and Vince Vinturella, are ancient in the hobby. Vince even has videos covering the End Times when they were still being released.
 
People who hated End Times are unlikely to like Age of Sigmar and tend to interpret everything about it in the most negative light possible, people who didn't have to suffer through that clusterfuck or who can look past it are able to enjoy it for what it is.

News at eleven.
 
Codex said:
The Old World is dead. Not everything in it is. It's quite literally called "Age of Sigmar". What did you expect?

This isn't even butchering or skinning the corpse. The Phoenix Kings weren't even named in that paragraph. They're already dead, they were just given a final resting place as part of Morathi. I have no fricking idea how this is supposed to bring back old fans?

"Oh yeah, Morathi in Broken Realms eats all the Phoenix Kings to become a Goddess. They mentioned the Phoenix Kings in one and two pages, retconned the shitty lore from End Times, and then they're gone now. Doesn't that want you to come back to AoS because it excites you to see them again?"

It's more like giving closure to a shitty ending than it is a "blatant ploy to pull in the old fans". That assertion is truly baffling.
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I am not talking about this specific incident, but rather about AoS using Old World characters in general. Often with those characters completly different from how they were before, but still preserving those familiar names, for recognition's sake. Instead of actually making new characters.
The Phoenix kings suddenly being important is but a symptom of GW being unwilling to let the Old World stay dead, and preserve what little dignity remained post End Times. Same with bringing Gotrek back. .
 
Codex said:
A good number of old fans like Age of Sigmar in its current state. Just because a vocal minority tries to make it known at every moment that they hate Age of Sigmar doesn't mean that it's not popular with some of the old base. Off the top of my head, two prominent youtubers, AoS Coach and Vince Vinturella, are ancient in the hobby. Vince even has videos covering the End Times when they were still being released.
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I generally have been staying away from that whole fandom.

But when it's intruding on a Warhammer Fantasy thread, I get grumpy about it.
I should probably stop.
 
Altom said:
I am not talking about this specific incident, but rather about AoS using Old World characters in general. Often with those characters completly different from how they were before, but still preserving those familiar names, for recognition's sake. Instead of actually making new characters.
The Phoenix kings suddenly being important is but a symptom of GW being unwilling to let the Old World stay dead, and preserve what little dignity remained post End Times. Same with bringing Gotrek back. .
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The majority of the characters are new. Celestant Prime, Vandus Hammerhand, Gardus Steel-Soul, Yndrasta, Gordrakk, Skragrott, Gobsprakk, Lady Olynder, Katakros, Laucha Vai, Belladama Volga, Radukar, Volturnos, Lyrior Uthralle, Ellania and Ellathor, Hamilcar Bear-Eater etc.

There are a number of familiar characters who are significantly different. Whether you like it or not is a matter of opinion. They didn't use old characters "instead of" new ones, they used them "in addition to".
IronFist said:
I generally have been staying away from that whole fandom.

But when it's intruding on a Warhammer Fantasy thread, I get grumpy about it.
I should probably stop.
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Then don't say stuff about things you know nothing about. I posted that section because it retconned the End Times and I thought people would find it interesting. If you hate AoS so much, then block me if it makes you happier.
 
The AoS/WF thing reminds me the transition to 4e D&D. When they made 4e, they built a new setting from the ground up for it—the Points of Light/Nentir Vale—and people got really upset about it. I once stumbled across a really long thread (like, 40+ pages and still active) about how much of an insult it was to old fans that Succubi were now devils instead of demons, for example.

(Personally, I've always considered PoL to be the best D&D setting—it's both interesting and adaptable, giving GM's a solid framework and toolbox to build with, without constricting their choices or options)
 
Codex said:
A good number of old fans like Age of Sigmar in its current state.
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I tried looking for AoS stuff myself awhile back and what struck me is absense of fan activity on the net. No quests, no fanfics, low activity on subreddits... Where are those old fans?
Codex said:
There are a number of familiar characters who are significantly different. Whether you like it or not is a matter of opinion. They didn't use old characters "instead of" new ones, they used them "in addition to".
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And yet all the big shot faction leaders are old guard. And even some of the more minor ones may be old worlders in diguise, from what little I've heard (see celestant prime being Karl Franz theories). But at the end of the day, you are right, it is a matter of opinion. So allow me to state my opinion in no uncertain terms: i believe that GW making Old World characters major part of AoS is similar to a murderer defiling the corpse of their murder victim and then using the results of said defiling to earn the trust of the victim's friends and family by pretending to be the victim.
 
Altom said:
And yet all the big shot faction leaders are old guard. And even some of the more minor ones may be old worlders in diguise, from what little I've heard (see celestant prime being Karl Franz theories). But at the end of the day, you are right, it is a matter of opinion. So allow me to state my opinion in no uncertain terms: i believe that GW making Old World characters major part of AoS is similar to a murderer defiling the corpse of their murder victim and then using the results of said defiling to earn the trust of the victim's friends and family by pretending to be the victim.
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Why do you feel the need to piss on their parade? I don't like Age of Sigmar. I even don't like how it seems to have brushed over how awful some of the old characters are to quietly rehabilitate them. But I haven't posted a long screed about how much I hate them in response to someone else sharing things they like; what would be the point?

What are you getting out of this interaction? I assure you, the rest of us aren't getting it.
 
Altom said:
I tried looking for AoS stuff myself awhile back and what struck me is absense of fan activity on the net. No quests, no fanfics, low activity on subreddits... Where are those old fans?

And yet all the big shot faction leaders are old guard. And even some of the more minor ones may be old worlders in diguise, from what little I've heard (see celestant prime being Karl Franz theories). But at the end of the day, you are right, it is a matter of opinion. So allow me to state my opinion in no uncertain terms: i believe that GW making Old World characters major part of AoS is similar to a murderer defiling the corpse of their murder victim and then using the results of said defiling to earn the trust of the victim's friends and family by pretending to be the victim.
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I can't really speak about activity, but the AoS subreddit is about 3x the size of the WHF one.

Maybe the stuff just isn't happening in the spaces you're in?
 
Altom said:
I tried looking for AoS stuff myself awhile back and what struck me is absense of fan activity on the net. No quests, no fanfics, low activity on subreddits... Where are those old fans?
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They're out playing games. Painting models. Going to tournaments. Discussing things in forums and discords. Hanging out in youtube spaces like Vince, AoS Coach and Honest Wargamer's communities. Hundreds go to tournaments all over the world. I've had a dozen story ideas knocking around my head for AoS and the only reason I don't write them is because I have crippling self-esteem issues about my own writing.
Altom said:
i believe that GW making Old World characters major part of AoS is similar to a murderer defiling the corpse of their murder victim and then using the results of said defiling to earn the trust of the victim's friends and family by pretending to be the victim.
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I don't know what to say to this. This is one of the most ridiculous sentences I've read in this thread. I implore you to consider the example you just brought up and read it back to yourself, and then remember that you're talking about a game.

If you feel that way, I'm sorry to tell you that is quite frankly one of the most horrific metaphors I've ever heard.
 
Dragonofelder said:
I will say I was disappointed that there were no CK-style quests set in AoS, it seemed like it would be cool. I did have a quest idea where you found a Free City, but I wouldn't be able to run it.
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I think part of that might be that there are (afaik) no rpg books for the setting yet. Books for tabletop play have neat info but rarely enough substance to build a quest from...
 
Deathbybunnies said:
What are you getting out of this interaction? I assure you, the rest of us aren't getting it
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Honestly... I don't know. I think some very small optimistic part of me still thinks I can get over the beginning of AoS and end of WHFB so that I may enjoy it, but mostly I am just sad and bitter. It isn't that bad normally, but that original paragraph... It was all about End Times bullshit and Old World stuff in AoS rather then anything original... Just brought all the bad memories and old hatred back. Frankly, what I posted is rather sanitized compared to ehat I wanted to post. But... This is going nowhere.

Everyone, I apologoze for a disruption and @Codex I apologize to you personally, for shitting on a thing you like.

I'll just stay out of any AoS discussion coming forward. For my own mental health if nothing else.
 
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Tobtorp said:
I think part of that might be that there are (afaik) no rpg books for the setting yet. Books for tabletop play have neat info but rarely enough substance to build a quest from...
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There is actually. Soulbound. Don't know how detailed it is though, although I do want to play it someday

cubicle7games.com

Warhammer Age of Sigmar: Soulbound, Core Rulebook

The Warhammer Age of Sigmar: Soulbound Core Rulebook has everything you need to begin your roleplaying adventures, from creating characters to building adventures and populating the world with villains and monsters. As Sigmar’s Storm broke upon the hordes of Chaos, a flicker of hope was...
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