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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Mopman43 said:
That wasn't him, though- he just left, and the Counts met and decided that they'd establish a successor by vote.

The fact that they did so instead of splitting apart has to say something about his reign, but it wasn't him directly.
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Someone significantly more connected to the lore will have to check that, because i just went on a wiki crawl to see if i can find sources for what i thought to be the truth and i am getting bunch of contradictions from twenty years worth of novels :V At least one seems to at minimum implicitly claim that Sigmar established the position of Emperor with the understanding that they must be chosen by Counts.
 
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pucflek said:
Someone significantly more connected to the lore will have to check that, because i just went on a wiki crawl to see if i can find sources for what i thought to be the truth and i am getting bunch of contradictions from twenty years worth of novels :V At least one seems to at minimum implicitly claim that Sigmar established the position of Emperor with the understanding that they must be chosen by Counts.
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Well, this is 2nd edition Sigmar's Heirs, page 14:
Fifty years after taking the throne, Sigmar announced his abdication to the assembled counts and the high priests of the various cults. "My work here is done," he told the shocked crowd. "The Empire is prosperous and united, and in your good hands it will continue to be so. But I have work I must finish, a task left undone, and I must return Ghal-maraz to its maker." With that, the First Emperor placed his crown on the table, picked up a rucksack, shouldered Ghal-maraz, and walked out the door to an unknown fate.

The gathered Counts were faced with a crisis: Sigmar had never married and, as far as anyone knew, had never produced an heir. Nor had he left a will designating who should succeed him. Indeed, never in the 50 years of his reign had anyone considered the question of succession.

Several among the Counts claimed the throne, some on the basis of being the most skilled in war or politics, others claiming the favour of the gods or even a secret promise from Sigmar himself. The arguments in the Reikhaus grew acrimonious and the threat of civil war loomed large, when a priestess of Rhya who was in the retinue of the Count of Stirland suggested an election. Let them all renew their vows of brotherhood and then let each state why he or she should take the crown. The first to get a majority of votes would become Emperor.

Grasping at straws to prevent disunity and civil conflict, the Counts agreed and retired to the Great Hall of the Reikhaus to deliberate. After three days passed (and many promises, threats, and much gold changed hands), the Ar-Ulric came forth to announce the new Emperor: Fulk of Wissenland. As part of the agreement, the counts determined that each new Emperor should be chosen from among them, and that the person so chosen could move the capital to his chief city. They also elevated a powerful noble of the Reikland to become the new Count of that province. In recognition of their role in choosing the Emperor, the Counts changed their titles to "Elector Counts."
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Andres said:
@Codex, what's Archaon like in Age of Sigmar? I recently watched the Champions of Chaos launch trailer and the few seconds he was in it got me to properly appreciate his role in both the story and Chaos, so I'm curious to see how he is in a setting that handles him better than Fantasy.
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He could do with a few more wins, but he starts the setting off by defeating Sigmar, tricking him into throwing his hammer, and starting the Age of Chaos, so there's that. He's very mastermind-ish. He's got his fingers in every pie and jar and his influence is very strong and in the background, and he gets a bunch of cool moments where he eviscerates people. You get the feeling that he's truly formidable. When you get into a fight with him, it's either game over or you're buying time for something to save you. Preferably a God.

Archaon is much better in a mythic high fantasy setting than WHF. He gets to flex his muscles and test the limits of the setting far more egregiously than he ever could, which gives him a lot more presence. He's also openly pitting the Chaos Gods against each other as they attempt to gain his favour, because he didn't swear himself to any one of them, and he plans to become a God and get rid of the Chaos Gods eventually. He also hates the Great Horned Rat and thinks he's pathetic and cowardly, and doesn't tolerate Skaven. He's overall got plenty of character building put into him.

His origin is never really mentioned. He's "The Grand Exalted Marshal of the Apocalypse", but his backstory is "shrouded in mystery". Be'lakor hates him and has a rivalry with him, and Be'lakor does a bunch of interesting stuff and actually gets some Ws as of late.
 
pucflek said:
He was a fine conqueror and personally charismatic, which we can infer from the existence of the Empire in the first place, but whatever skill he possessed as a statesman is never really established except for his founding of the electoral system.
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He explicitly wrote tons of laws and tax codes during his reign, formed the first complete calendar in the Reik basin to include every religious ceremony and cultural festival while also being accurate to the times of planting and harvest. He had the first man-made roads ever built made to connect the provinces by more than just rivers, and formed the Roadwardens to patrol it for threats (and the Riverwardens for the rivers). He formed the State Troops, the first armies consisting of professional soldiers in all of human history. With Dwarf help, he catapulted a mostly Bronze Age civilization into High Medieval levels of technology, engineering and industry.

Yeah, Sigmar did a whole lot during his 50 years of ruling. The whole interesting point of his character was that he wasn't just a mountain of muscle who could hit very hard with a magic hammer, he was legitimately seemingly born to be an administrator and ruler.
 
Sir_Travelsalot said:
He explicitly wrote tons of laws and tax codes during his reign, formed the first complete calendar in the Reik basin to include every religious ceremony and cultural festival while also being accurate to the times of planting and harvest. He had the first man-made roads ever built made to connect the provinces by more than just rivers, and formed the Roadwardens to patrol it for threats (and the Riverwardens for the rivers). He formed the State Troops, the first armies consisting of professional soldiers in all of human history. With Dwarf help, he catapulted a mostly Bronze Age civilization into High Medieval levels of technology, engineering and industry.

Yeah, Sigmar did a whole lot during his 50 years of ruling. The whole interesting point of his character was that he wasn't just a mountain of muscle who could hit very hard with a magic hammer, he was legitimately seemingly born to be an administrator and ruler.
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While he did create the Road Wardens, I don't remember any mention of him creating the River Wardens. That kind of river patrol stuff started to occur when the technology for boat building was improved I'm pretty sure, and the Dwarves aren't much help in that area. It should also be noted that Sigmar did not create a calendar that includes every ceremony and cultural festival. He created a position by the name of the Master of the Calendars or whatever that was in charge of that stuff, but the Calendar was taken from the Dwarves. All he did was separate the Calendar into months and create a weekly cycle, because Dwarves didn't have a concept of months or weeks. They would go "the 279th day of year 4457" or whatever.

Not diminsihing his accomplishments, but I think there is some slight overselling going on here. Sigmar did a lot of good things, but I'd argue that not setting up a system for succession is such a big blunder that it could have literally invalidated all his work. If it wasn't for a random suggestion from a Priestess of Verena (or Shallya, can't remember), the Empire would have broken apart into tribal lines yet again and rendered everything invalid.
 
Sir_Travelsalot said:
formed the first complete calendar in the Reik basin to include every religious ceremony and cultural festival while also being accurate to the times of planting and harvest.
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Codex said:
It should also be noted that Sigmar did not create a calendar that includes every ceremony and cultural festival. He created a position by the name of the Master of the Calendars or whatever that was in charge of that stuff, but the Calendar was taken from the Dwarves.
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The planet has 400-day year and a 25-day lunar cycle. This should make the calendar blindingly obvious. Unfortunately:

"We have a five-day week based on a 25-day lunar month," says the only sane tribe.
"We have a fourteen-day week based on the maximum time we can withstand a siege," says another.
"We have a seven-day week with each day dedicated to a different God."
"We have a four-day week and a 16-day month, but we don't remember why."
"We have an eight-day week because Ulric says so."

"Are any of you willing to compromise?" asks Sigmar.
"Fuck no," says literally everyone.
"Okay, you, find a way to make a compromise solution that everyone likes," says Sigmar to some poor bastard.
"HAIL TZEENTCH," says that guy pretty much instantly, founding a minor Cult that exists to this day.
"Fuck it," says Sigmar, "I'll just copy the Dwarves."
"Our original calendar had twelve 33-day months, with four non-month days on the solstices and equinoxes," say the Dwarves. "Unfortunately the existence of Morrsleib means we now have ten 33-day months, two 32-day months, four non-month days on the solstices and equinoxes, one non-month day on the new year for one of the days when Morrsleib is full, and one non-month day at the completely unpredictable time throughout the year for the other day when it's full."
"I don't even care any more," says Sigmar, and adopts it.
 
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Sir_Travelsalot said:
He explicitly wrote tons of laws and tax codes during his reign, formed the first complete calendar in the Reik basin to include every religious ceremony and cultural festival while also being accurate to the times of planting and harvest. He had the first man-made roads ever built made to connect the provinces by more than just rivers, and formed the Roadwardens to patrol it for threats (and the Riverwardens for the rivers). He formed the State Troops, the first armies consisting of professional soldiers in all of human history. With Dwarf help, he catapulted a mostly Bronze Age civilization into High Medieval levels of technology, engineering and industry.

Yeah, Sigmar did a whole lot during his 50 years of ruling. The whole interesting point of his character was that he wasn't just a mountain of muscle who could hit very hard with a magic hammer, he was legitimately seemingly born to be an administrator and ruler.
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The Tileans apparently had cities and roads and the accoutrements of civilisation copied from the ruins of elven colonies, and they were also present in the Reik basin and their trading city in Nuln was somehow assimilated by the Empire under Sigmar.
 
Boney said:
The planet has 400-day year and a 25-day lunar cycle. This should make the calendar blindingly obvious. Unfortunately:

"We have a five-day week based on a 25-day lunar month," says the only sane tribe.
"We have a fourteen-day week based on the maximum time we can withstand a siege," says another.
"We have a seven-day week with each day dedicated to a different God."
"We have a four-day week and a 16-day month, but we don't remember why."
"We have an eight-day week because Ulric says so."

"Are any of you willing to compromise?" asks Sigmar.
"Fuck no," says literally everyone.
"Okay, you, find a way to make a compromise solution that everyone likes," says Sigmar to some poor bastard.
"HAIL TZEENTCH," says that guy pretty much instantly, founding a minor Cult that exists to this day.
"Fuck it," says Sigmar, "I'll just copy the Dwarves."
"Our original calendar had twelve 33-day months, with four non-month days on the solstices and equinoxes," say the Dwarves. "Unfortunately the existence of Morrsleib means we now have ten 33-day months, two 32-day months, four non-month days on the solstices and equinoxes, one non-month day on the new year for one of the days when Morrsleib is full, and one non-month day at the completely unpredictable time throughout the year for the other day when it's full."
"I don't even care any more," says Sigmar, and adopts it.
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Still better than the system of randomly adding months whenever you wanted to delay the re-election for your position.
 
Codex said:
Soulbound has several in depth RPG books and an RPG setting for it. It came out in 2020. There's lots of content on the Realm of Fire. I could realistically make a quest on any of the Eight Realms except maybe Ulgu if I had the motivation and confidence.
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Fuck, I'll help, I've been mulling over the idea for a while, and if you're willing to do the research and keeping things straight so I don't run into an Increasing Complexity Problem that breaks my ability to proceed, I'll do the writing and idea stuff.
 
Alratan said:
The Tileans apparently had cities and roads and the accoutrements of civilisation copied from the ruins of elven colonies, and they were also present in the Reik basin and their trading city in Nuln was somehow assimilated by the Empire under Sigmar.
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Going by Nuln's history in 2nd edition, the Tileans founded Nuln literal months before the Greenskin invasion that prompted Sigmar to unite the tribes.

I don't think they had a road yet.
 
Mopman43 said:
Going by Nuln's history in 2nd edition, the Tileans founded Nuln literal months before the Greenskin invasion that prompted Sigmar to unite the tribes.

I don't think they had a road yet.
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The history of the Empire's religions in Tome of Salvation tells us that Nuln/other Tilean trading posts in the Reik basin existed for several hundreds of years before Sigmar's birth.
 
Mopman43 said:
And Forges of Nuln says it was months before the Waaagh.

Pick your poison.
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Tome of Salvation makes more sense and gives good reason to believe it, as it exists in context of explaining the sociological development of the Empire's cults; while Forges of Nuln could easily be based on sources that would prefer to minimise the significance of Tilean presence even more than the very prejudiced sources that Tome of Salvation provides.

Forges of Nuln's IC sources also don't seem to realise that there were a thousand years between the arrival of the proto-Imperial tribes and the birth of Sigmar the way the narrative is told.
 
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alvus said:
Somehow, to this day the Cult is still trying to fulfill Sigmar´s original orders. Unfortunately for everyone, it seems that every new calendar and combination of days they try, ends up with a new Daemon being summoned.
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They've been enacting this xkcd comic for centuries; of course they've gotten to the point where everything they try summons a being of madness, cleverness, and self-sabotage.
 
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Aule said:
They could have a road pre-built, what with Nuln standing on or very close to the ruins of Kazad Kro.
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That'd depend on if the Dwarfs and Elves were using the River of Echoes (underground river that runs from Tilea to Wissenland, which the Tileans used to trade with the Reik Basin)

I'm inclined to say they weren't just because if the Golden Age Dwarfs were involved, that thing would have been wide enough to sail an ironclad through.
 
NSMS said:
Still better than the system of randomly adding months whenever you wanted to delay the re-election for your position.
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Now now, lets be fair. The person in question was adding days not months, and it wasn't the same guy who's election would be delayed. Which just means that only happens when the same political party (optimates or populares) controls both positions. So good luck figuring out which day your supposed to plant crops or pay your taxes if you aren't in italy motherfucker.
 
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