@Dragonofelder gave me the idea for this, so I'm now going to make an post on the Belthani. Who are they?
"Right, Waystones. Well, Runes are a big part of it. The Elves being unwilling to tell us whatever they still know is another - most of what I've just said is pieced together from offhand comments Teclis made to the first Magisters. But a third problem is that there's a lot more to the network than Ulthuan's Waystones, even when you account for the differences between purely Elven and Elven-Dwarven hybrid designs. From the runes found on them, they're believed by most to have been made by early human tribes - Belthani in the west, Scythians in the east."
"They're extinct, aren't they?" Johann asks. "When I was reading up on the Kurgans, the books said that they wiped out the Scythians."
"The Kurgan say they're the inheritors of the Scythians, but it's unclear if that's from descent or conquest. The Kislevites claim that the Gospodars were descendants of the Scythians, but that might just be to bolster their land claims. I've seen theories that the Roppsmenn were Scythian remnants, and others that there are tribes even further east that might be. As for the Belthani, they were variously displaced and absorbed by the Pre-Imperial Tribes when they entered the Reik basin. Some say the beliefs of the Taalites and Rhyans descend from them, or the Damsels do, others say there are still secret cults keeping Belthani beliefs alive, and some say the founders of the Jade or Amber Orders were drawn from them. Some even say there's some secret island off the coast of Bretonnia where the Belthani still thrive, but that's never seemed plausible to me. So if that information is still out there, I'm going to have to try to winkle it out of someone who won't even openly claim they have it."
Here, Mathilde outlines some basics about the Belthani. They are a Pre-Imperial tribe of humans that existed within the Forests of the Empire before the pre-Imperial tribes came to the Reik Basin. They supplemented the Waystone network with tributaries, and they follow the Old Faith, which involves worship of some sort of nature deity by the name of the Earth Mother. Their cultural influences are said to be within many different organisations, from Taal and Rhya to the Druids of the Jade Order and the Shamans of the Amber Order and even further, such as the Talabeclander Hedgewise who are mentioned later. That is the basics.
"I have a theory about that, one that ties in to old legends about the Belthani coming from the west, just as the Scythians came from the north, the Tylosians from the south, and the Imperial Tribes from the east. Teclis was only able to translate a few scraps of the symbols have survived, but of those..." She begins to point. "'Came from beyond', 'deep waters', 'silver ships', 'nurture Her land'. What if the Belthani 'came from beyond' the Great Ocean? What if Ulthuan could interpret scraps of this language because it's a cousin of Anoqeyån? Because the Belthani were students of the Old Ones, just as the Elves were?"
"Are you suggesting the Belthani came from Ulthuan?"
"And they were taken across the 'deep waters' on these 'silver ships' to 'nurture Her land'. Is that not what we did? When the Elves got too caught up in their wars, the Belthani completed the network."
Here is Tochter's theory about the Belthani's origin, which matches up with the rumors that Mathilde has heard of Albion being a place where the Belthani still thrive. Mathilde still thinks Albion is bullshit, but from an out of universe perspective we can get the idea that a contingent of Albionese migrated to the Old World around -1500IC or before. We can theorise that the reason these disciples of the Old Ones decided to do this was to complete and support the network that the Elves left possibly unfinished. This also explains the Runes to some extent, as they would have some close relation to the Old Ones' language.
"Things were different, once." From your recent readings on the War of Vengeance, you know that Kazad Kro was the wealthiest of the Dwarven cities built in the Reik basin. The so-called 'Hill Dwarves' of the lowlands took the brunt of Elven attacks before the war swung in favour of the Dwarves, and most of them either returned to the mountains or started new lives amongst the human tribes of the Belthani that lived in the forests. In time the ancestors of the Empire arrived and conquered or assimilated the Belthani, and those Dwarves became the first of the Imperial Dwarves, and some of their descendants probably call Nuln home once more. No wonder they'd be touchy about the home of their fallen glory.
Just to put the timeline in perspective, the Belthani are generally dated around -1500 IC as to their presence within the Reik Basin, but that is recorded from the annals of Dwarf history, which was pretty focused at the time. It is stated here that some of the Hill Dwarves integrated with the Belthani before they were absorbed by the Pre-Imperials. The Pre-Imperial tribes like the Unberogen, Teutogen, Taluten etc. arrived around -1000 IC and rose to prominence about 500 years later around -500 IC. They assimilated the Belthani and that is theorised to have provided great influence towards the "Earth Mother" and nature cults of the Empire.
"When the Daemons walked and the Children of the Cradle were encircled, the Green Man first came to the Earth Mother and told Her of what was to come. In Her wisdom did She see what must be done, and in Her mercy did She make us, the Belthani, the instruments of correction. We built the Ogham Circles that halted the devastation, and we will guard them for Her." Magister Tocther nods firmly, ignoring thoughtful looks from Egrimm and Elrisse.
This is an in-character description of the Belthani provided by Tochter. We know that the Earth Mother is the focal point of the Old Faith religions as their primary nature deity who represents the cycle of life, but who is the Green Man? Not much is actually mentioned about him, but we can make some theories. There are in-universe arguments about whether the Earth Mother is Rhya and the Green Man is Taal, so I assume he represents the opposing side of the Earth Mother. A more wild side. If you follow the theory that the Earth Mother is just the Jade Wind, then the Green Man is the Amber Wind.
In this myth, I theorise that the "Children of the Cradle" are actually the Albionese. The Belthani were "created as instruments of correction" and they built Ogham Circles to halt the devastation. Perhaps this is representing that the Belthani, as the mainland offshoot, were sent to correct the problems that came about as a result of the Elves being embroiled in war and leaving the Waystone network.
The Belthani were the mainland Brythonics, the Eonir were the colonists from a foreign empire.
This is just Boney mentioning the Belthani's effective real world counterpart, insofar as Warhammer has real world counterparts.
Canon says that the 'Umgi' name stuck when High King Nurn Shieldbreaker encountered humans in the forests of the Reik Basin in -1499. Before this point is most of Nehekharan history and the rise and fall of Tylos that humans and Dwarves worked together to build. As for why he felt they deserved that name...
We are blessed by the Dwarfen forethought, as these Dwarfs recorded everything they found in the camp. Among the simple tools and fixtures that littered the camp were suggestively shaped objects, no doubt of ritual significance, which reveal a forthright attitude to the acts of Rhya. Time and civilisation have now replaced such direct depictions with the wheat sheaf and the antler—symbols that are much more suitable for public display, and less likely to excite the passions of the easily led. Unsurprisingly, the Dwarfs had little interest in these badly sculpted figures, and they abandoned them.
Have you ever been kinkshamed so hard that you tar the reputation of your entire species for the rest of history?
This is the first meeting between the Dwarves and the Belthani, and the reason for the name "Umgi" to be created.
Teclis is explicitly said to have translated the Talastein Carvings, not the Obernarn Stone, which doesn't say if it had or needed a translator. Teclis apparently was enough of a meganerd to have learned the language of the Belthani humans that lived around the Elven settlements of the Old World back during the Golden Age, but the Elves were long gone by the time the ancestors of the Imperial tribes arrived (except for Laurelorn and Athel Loren, of course) and they didn't return to the Old World until the 2300s, so they would have never encountered whichever dialect the Obernarn Stone would have been written in.
Early lore had the Reik basin being completely uninhabited apart from a few scattered Dwarven and Elven settlements up until the ancestors to the Empire arrived, and this is where the story of Dwarves first encountering men and calling them 'Umgi' was written. But ancient history has been a lot more fleshed out since then - Kavzar, Morkhain, Nehekhara in Averland - and such a huge and fertile land being empty that whole time stopped making sense, and they retconned that first meeting into merely 'one of the first recorded contacts', emphasis mine. It's not explicitly said that the Belthani and the Elves coexisted, but someone would have been living in all of the lands that the Elves and Dwarves weren't, and humans are the only possibility that would have been sensible enough to keep their distance instead of reaching critical mass and turning the Golden Age of peaceful and prosperous trading into a hellwar with greenskins or beastmen or whoever. And if those people weren't the Belthani and were instead some even earlier precursor, how would Teclis have been able to translate their runes?
This is Boney's early speculations and musings and arguments in regards to the Belthani's presence during the War of Vengeance and how and why Teclis would understand the Taalastein Carvings.
Now, we venture into something different, and this is primarily how the Earth Mother and Old Faith has shaped other institutions:
While this is the main difference between the Amber and Jade Orders, it is far from the only one. When Teclis founded the Colleges, he gathered together all the formerly outlawed practitioners of magic, and among them were the ancient remnants of the Druids that worshipped the Earth Mother, long supplanted but still lingering on in secret. Upon being shown the pure energies of nature in the form of Ghyran, the majority of the Druids answered the call and became the founders of the Jade College. Theirs is a tradition that dates back far beyond the birth of Sigmar, and they are strongly aware of it.
They worshipped 'the Earth Mother' and ascribed all their powers to this deity, and then Teclis turned up and said 'that's the Jade Wind, dummies'. Those that agreed became the Jade Order, those that didn't remain underground throughout the Empire. According to Panoramia, the Jade Order are split between those that want to pivot to Rhya worship, those that want to pivot to Shallya worship, and those that want to be irreligious.
The first is Mathilde's description of the founding of the Jade College, the second is Boney's offhand description of the formation of the Jade Order. Both effectively confirm that the pre-Collegiate Druids practiced some variation of the Old Faith aka worship of the Earth Mother, and Teclis went up to them and told them they were worshipping the Jade Wind and they should join him. Those who agreed joined the Order, those who refused went underground. The Jade College remains the only College capable of drawing their Wind from Waystones as a result of their traditional practices and becuase Teclis could clearly see they wouldn't stop so he helped them standardise it.
We will transition into the Jade College's internal religious conflicts from Panoramia's perspective, but the general understanding is that those inside the College are arguing over who the Earth Mother is if it's an existing god or not caring.
"Right. Of course." You make a mental note to look into this further later, and mentally underline it several times. "It's tied into the Druid thing, right?"
"Ugh, the Druid thing. If nothing else, I'm glad to be half a continent away from all of that. 'Should we still worship the Earth Mother', 'should we switch over to Rhya', 'is Rhya the Earth Mother', 'is Shallya the Earth Mother', 'is there even an Earth Mother', 'is Taal the Green Man'... honestly, at this point I couldn't care less. The Gods can do what they do and I'll do what I do and we don't have to bother each other. What about you? Is the Grey College really a hive of secret Ranald cultists?"
This is the first we get to see the conflict from Panoramia's perspective.
"A close friend of mine has something of a family dispute involving worship of the Earth Mother, and whether it should be pursued as they traditionally have done, or whether they should join the Cult of Rhya. I wanted to know if you knew anything of that division."
"Would this family live in Altdorf? In a round house with a very tall wall?"
"It might."
He considers that for a while. "A man once sought to truly understand water, and followed every river he could find to its mouth. His conclusion was that the true nature of water is salty, and he died of thirst."
You consider that for a while, and nod. "Thank you."
This is Joerg Zavstra's response to the dilemma in regards to the Earth Mother. He's basically like "questioning these things doesn't matter in regards to the practical realities of the situation". Not sure how well that even solves the issue really.
It doesn't seem like there was one shared pantheon in the time before Sigmar, as Taal was the God of the Taleutens and Ulric of the Teutogens, and the other tribes only seemed to start picking them up after they settled in the Reik Basin. That leaves Rhya and Manann as unknowns, and I'd speculate Rhya was either the Goddess of the Cherusens or an adoption of the Old Faith of the Belthani, and that Manann was the God of the Jutones. Whether the other patron gods have been forgotten, were Chaos Gods that were abandoned, or have faded into being minor regional Gods is an open question.
But it's entirely possible that the tribes shared a pantheon before they came into the Reik basin, and the Taleutens and Teutogens claim favour on the basis of tribal patrons. There's not much canon material of that era and a lot of it is vague and self-contradictory.
(there's also another possibility acknowledged in the material that Ulric, Taal, and Rhya all descend from a single deity with three seasonal facets)
This is Boney's musings on the Old World Pantheon and how the different gods were formed and who sponsored them etc. etc. It's interesting stuff but it's all theories. The Old Faith is connected to some degree, and there's the whole Ishernos/Ishnernos thing, which is another topic I'm not delving into right now.
You give her a considering look. "Thinking of rebuilding bridges?"
She sighs. "Maybe. I've been thinking of finally trying for graduation - my feelings on the whole Earth Mother situation hasn't changed but I'd be okay with swearing oaths to the abstract concept of the natural cycle of life embodied in the Jade Wind that just happens to have the label of 'Earth Mother', which is apparently seen as acceptable."
This is the progression of Panoramia's struggles with faith. Panoramia's general irreligous concept of the Earth Mother is that she represents the "abstract concept of the natural cycle of life embodied in the Jade Wind".
Part of the 'Cult of the Mother' that formed the core of the Jade Order was matriarchal and matrilineal, and some families within it continue those traditions even though the modern Jade Order is more accepting of male Jade Wizards.
This is an important point. The Jade College has different subfactions beyond just "believes in Earth Mother" and "doesn't believe in Earth Mother". Panoramia's mom is more stringently following the Cult of the Mother, who holds the belief that the Jade Wind is for women. Another point of contention between Panoramia and her mom.
I'm pretty sure Boney acquired a good portion of this from the "Old Faith" section of Page 7 of Tome of Salvation 2E:
"Most believe the Cult of the Mother died out long ago. They are wrong. Not only do the Great Families of my Order continue Her traditions, but the sickle is born by others, which most of whom hide far from prying eyes.
Before he formed our Order, Teclis came to our great groves. By channelling Ghyran he activated the Waystones we believed had been raised by our ancestors, and showed us what our "Oghams" truly were: a creation of the Elder Race, the Asur, the Elves. We watched wide-eyed as Teclis explained the nature of belief, magic, and of Hoeth, the God he especially revered.
Not all of us accepted his foreign ways. Indeed, a full third of the Druidic Families stubbornly spurned Teclis, refusing to believe his "truth", and fled into the dark forests, just like the prehistoric tribes of old.
But those who remained, listened, and then eventually understood.
Not long after, the Jade Order of Magic was formalised, and we were its numbers. We didn't change our beliefs— indeed, we practise the Old Faith still—but we understood them for what they were: a twisted reflection of the truth.
Since then, our role as Nature's Guardians has brought us into contact with many others who believe they are the Children of the Belthani. They are all, I am quite sure, just as wrong as we were."
—Erowin Grunfeld, Magister Druid of the Jade Order
You might have noticed something there. Erowin Grunfeld sounds familiar right? I'm quite certain they're one of Tochter's eight Magister children in canon.
Fertility seems to be a theological grey area, and though the Gods involved are often claimed to be linked to Rhya, they never seem to take the usual next step of being subsumed as aspects or subservient spirits of Her. In contrast, Stirland has the fertility goddess Narvorga and farming goddess Albaulea, both of which are tentatively linked to Shallya instead of Rhya. One theory is that as Rhya is the Earth Mother and Shallya is the Maiden of Mercy, women who are sexually active but not yet mothers is something of a theological no woman's land that other independent Goddesses have arisen in. This is sometimes linked to Vylmar and Katya, sometimes rather tediously use this as grounds to denounce female sexuality in general, other times more positively as proof that this represents a sort of protected theological reef where forms of life can flourish where normally they'd be easy prey for larger predators.
It's rather similar to other points of tension between major Gods, such as River Gods caught between Rhya and Manann, or Trade Gods that are sometimes linked to either Ranald or Manann. The business in Sylvania brings to mind that there might also be terrain between Taal and Manann that Gods of wetlands are able to survive within.
This is some of Boney's musings on fertility in the concept of divine domain and shared godly real estate.
You return to Talabheim and reunite with Aksel, who has been making contact with his fellows in Talabecland. These, he tells you, are even more insular than most Hedgewise, and apparently practice a variation of the Old Faith that brings them into conflict with the Taalites.
This is just an example of at least one branch of the Hedgewise following the Old Faith of the Belthani, probably a variation, and one that the Taalites don't like.
I hope this post is helpful to anyone who wants to know about the Belthani. If you search "Warhammer Fantasy Belthani" on google the first page is hopeless for getting any actual information. DL is on the first page of all things! I'm pretty sure they don't even have a wiki page.
