Could be that the Earth Mother is (was?) an Old One, perhaps one who played a big role in the terraforming of Malus and the creation of the life forms that now populate it. A being who came from beyond the world and shaped the world to support the life that it created certainly sounds like a God.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Actually, how long did Teclis stay in the Empire and teach the colleges for? Was it a few years before he went back or was he only here for a couple of months? If it was the latter, that explains why his tutelage was so slapdash. If he spent actual years in the Empire however, then he was very much hiding stuff from them.
What was the objective of Teclis of Ulthuan when teaching humans of the Empire? Was he trying to impart important philosophical truths about life the universe and everything or was he trying to teach them magic so they could deal with the Chaos invasion and its aftermath? Maybe he let the misunderstanding stand because he did not have the time to unwind it, maybe he simply did not care if the wizards had it because a secular College would suit him better, for that matter maybe he outright lied for the latter purpose.
Hell knowing Teclis maybe he had a headache from the wine and orgy the night before and could not be bothered to explain it in more detail and then he forgot it because of said headache.
- Location
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I think that something would eventually answer their prayers, but my point is that if the original Earth Mother was Old One then anything related to waystones would be just regular magic without any divine involved.
- Location
- UK
Unfortunately, the vampires are infected with Dhar. So while they could be doing this they are instead most likely focused on my predatory ambitions. Why spend all that time and effort building up your own polity when you could conquer someone else's instead?
Codex
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He only started lecturing them in halls where everything he said was recorded after the War was over and he was under the impression he would be there for the forseaable future shaping the Colleges to his desire.What was the objective of Teclis of Ulthuan when teaching humans of the Empire? Was he trying to impart important philosophical truths about life the universe and everything or was he trying to teach them magic so they could deal with the Chaos invasion and its aftermath? Maybe he let the misunderstanding stand because he did not have the time to unwind it, maybe he simply did not care if the wizards had it because a secular College would suit him better, for that matter maybe he outright lied for the latter purpose.
Hell knowing Teclis maybe he had a headache from the wine and orgy the night before and could not be bothered to explain it in more detail and then he forgot it because of said headache.
I'll be honest, at this point it just sounds like you're making excuses for Teclis. Whenever someone makes a point that "Teclis might have been wrong" and Mathilde is explicitly talking about it there's always a contingent that's all "we don't know that, this and this and this could have happened such that Teclis could have totally been right and everyone else's viewpoint is wrong". I'm starting to get tired of it and I think I don't want to engage with it anymore. At least not until we get any sort of evidence that actually implies that Teclis was lying or misleading his students about Divine Magic.
Voikirium
SV's Estalia Guy
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I think Teclis was just wrong. In relatively good faith, in that he examined, deduced and then (indelicately) promulgated a notion that was not true but did not actively lie or set out to screw with the proto-Jades for funsies, but still. Wrong.
Codex
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I didn't catch this until just now, waaaaay later, but in this episode of "Boney's obscure references to actual lore", remember when Galenstra mentioned poachers hunting for a specific feather?
"To the north, near Middenheim, the ground sinks into a swampy morass called the "Schadensumpf." Little of worth is found here, though some small villages make a good living harvesting bog iron. The Schadensumpf also provides refuge for criminals fleeing the Graf's justice. Of note is the vast population of black cranes that migrate each autumn from the Schadensumpf to the warm climes of Tilea, before returning in late spring. The crests of the birds have become quite fashionable in hats, leading the Graf last year to impose a tax on each bird taken. This, in turn, has lead to a rise in poaching and smuggling" Page 54 Heirs of Sigmar 2E
I don't think I would have caught that if I wasn't rereading the book.
I was going over Heirs of Sigmar again for goodies, and I came across this section that completely slipped my mind. No wonder I didn't remember it. I just discarded it because I thought it was irrelevant:
"To the north, near Middenheim, the ground sinks into a swampy morass called the "Schadensumpf." Little of worth is found here, though some small villages make a good living harvesting bog iron. The Schadensumpf also provides refuge for criminals fleeing the Graf's justice. Of note is the vast population of black cranes that migrate each autumn from the Schadensumpf to the warm climes of Tilea, before returning in late spring. The crests of the birds have become quite fashionable in hats, leading the Graf last year to impose a tax on each bird taken. This, in turn, has lead to a rise in poaching and smuggling" Page 54 Heirs of Sigmar 2E
I don't think I would have caught that if I wasn't rereading the book.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Hmmm... Let's not be hasty here; how stylish is the flower themed trenchcoat-dress?Aside of course from guaranteeing they actually get their goddess back and not just Tzeench in a flower themed trenchcoat-dress
@Boney, I have few ideas adound AV and I would like to check with You whether they are valid approach.
So, explanation first.
Storm of magic proves that high level of ambient magic affects reality. Thorek rune-recharging schema uses drops of AV to simulate environment of Storm of Magic. But that are drops, unleached one after another. AV itself is FAR more concentrated. Mathilde have containers that keeps litres of it. But for some strange reason, so much energy in such concentration does NOT affect world around it. Not even as much as powerstone. By standard theories, it very much should.
There are several possibilities there. For example, AV can be 'calm' pool of energy, while a reson for storm of magic affecting reality is that those energies are trashing around. Or AV influence is localized - within AV reality is influenced, but effect ends at the edge of it. Whichever explanations proves true, it would be interesting to research it. For example:
- If we make empty space enclosed by AV - is reality weaker there? If AV exerts pressure on world limited to itself, then free area of space inside should also be affected. Does effect increases with amount of AV in single place?
- If lack of AV impack is matter of 'calm' energy, would it be possible to agitate it in some way? I.e.: powerstones exerts influence - what would happen if Mathilde set rotating mechanism that move powerstone closer/further to AV very quickly?
Etc. Whichever way it would go, it would be interesting. So, something like:
[ ] Research impact of AV metaphysical weight on reality.
Anyway - few more questions (apologies if they were asked before). It last chapters has shown that powerstones can 'grow' with expediture of AV. Is it possible to carefully break powerstones to smaller chunks without it evaporating? I am mostly wondering whether it is possible to take fragments of powerstones, and 'growing' them back to full shape. If it's viable, then it could serve a mechanism that can translate AV into College Favours, similar to what we have with Runesmiths. Is it possible?
Related to self-improvement - liminal spaces. Eonir have them, and can enter them. Mathilde witnessed it. She also witnessed dryad coming from different type of liminal space. Would it be possible for her to learn how to enter those spaces on her own? Something like:
[ ] Learn how to enter (and exit) existing liminal spaces.
Then, there is last chapter, and waystone tributaties. Mathilde needs to spent long time to see it. Would it possible how her to spent some time to learn how to see is easier? It is very specific problem for witchsight - obseving movement of low-level ambient energies.
[ ] Learn to observe low level energies of waystone network.
So, explanation first.
Storm of magic proves that high level of ambient magic affects reality. Thorek rune-recharging schema uses drops of AV to simulate environment of Storm of Magic. But that are drops, unleached one after another. AV itself is FAR more concentrated. Mathilde have containers that keeps litres of it. But for some strange reason, so much energy in such concentration does NOT affect world around it. Not even as much as powerstone. By standard theories, it very much should.
There are several possibilities there. For example, AV can be 'calm' pool of energy, while a reson for storm of magic affecting reality is that those energies are trashing around. Or AV influence is localized - within AV reality is influenced, but effect ends at the edge of it. Whichever explanations proves true, it would be interesting to research it. For example:
- If we make empty space enclosed by AV - is reality weaker there? If AV exerts pressure on world limited to itself, then free area of space inside should also be affected. Does effect increases with amount of AV in single place?
- If lack of AV impack is matter of 'calm' energy, would it be possible to agitate it in some way? I.e.: powerstones exerts influence - what would happen if Mathilde set rotating mechanism that move powerstone closer/further to AV very quickly?
Etc. Whichever way it would go, it would be interesting. So, something like:
[ ] Research impact of AV metaphysical weight on reality.
Anyway - few more questions (apologies if they were asked before). It last chapters has shown that powerstones can 'grow' with expediture of AV. Is it possible to carefully break powerstones to smaller chunks without it evaporating? I am mostly wondering whether it is possible to take fragments of powerstones, and 'growing' them back to full shape. If it's viable, then it could serve a mechanism that can translate AV into College Favours, similar to what we have with Runesmiths. Is it possible?
Related to self-improvement - liminal spaces. Eonir have them, and can enter them. Mathilde witnessed it. She also witnessed dryad coming from different type of liminal space. Would it be possible for her to learn how to enter those spaces on her own? Something like:
[ ] Learn how to enter (and exit) existing liminal spaces.
Then, there is last chapter, and waystone tributaties. Mathilde needs to spent long time to see it. Would it possible how her to spent some time to learn how to see is easier? It is very specific problem for witchsight - obseving movement of low-level ambient energies.
[ ] Learn to observe low level energies of waystone network.
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- Location
- Netherlands
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Teclis's wiki page claims that more than twenty years passed since Teclis started teaching humans magic before he returned home.
Dunno how accurate that is, but I'm no WHF lore expert outside of Divided Loyalties, so that's all I got.
EDIT:
I kinda doubt that this would be more valuable to the Colleges than simply
I don't know whether this specific action is viable, but if it isn't, we have had some other proposed ideas to improve our Windsight that have been theorized to plausibly be able to help.
Trying to see through Pall of Darkness is one. Another one is trying to get our Flicker mark to dim the "light" observed by our Windsight.
I've also suggested the idea of trying to invent a spell to "conceal" magical energies from our Windsight so we can better see the ones that aren't "concealed", but that hasn't been verified that as something we could attempt.
There are probably more that I can't remember off the top of my head.
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- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
...I've had an idea. Just throwing it out there to percolate through the thread consciousness:
Deathfang is a mercenary. Maybe in a few turns he might be amenable to being paid for a polite question session on stuff like this that might be relevant? Per question cost or for a set/follow up questions ect are things to be determined if the basic idea seems good/viable.
(Also, I wonder if we could pay Cython for the same thing with a Light Morb from the second set we make)
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Teclis officially founded the Colleges of Magic in year 141 of Finubar's reign (2304 IC) and left for Ulthuan to stay permanently in year 163 of Finubar's reign (2326 IC). That's from both 5th edition and 8th edition High Elves.Teclis's wiki page claims that more than twenty years passed since Teclis started teaching humans magic before he returned home.
Dunno how accurate that is, but I'm no WHF lore expert outside of Divided Loyalties, so that's all I got.
So yeah, 22 years.
Codex
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The wiki cites page 69 of High Elves 6th Edition Army Book. I checked that source and have confirmed that the following is indeed stated within that very page:Teclis's wiki page claims that more than twenty years passed since Teclis started teaching humans magic before he returned home.
Dunno how accurate that is, but I'm no WHF lore expert outside of Divided Loyalties, so that's all I got.
"Teclis himself taught the first human students and more than twenty years passed before he returned home. Through his work as a teacher, he became fond of the race of men and saw in it the possibility and the threat that in time it might far exceed the declining race of elves."
In contrast to this, it is officially known (within DL canon) that Teclis was the First Supreme Patriarch of the Colleges, although it was just an honorary title and Volans was the one who was actually performing the duties. If he was there for more than 20 years than the question arises as to why he only had the title once. Perhaps Volans "succeeded" him without a duel and he continued teaching, because I doubt Volans vs Teclis would be a fair fight.
EDIT: Eshin'd yet again.
I think Volans got to be supreme patriarch because it wouldn't be a fair fight. Also because teclis knew he couldn't be here forever. You have to prepare people to take positions so taking one term of office to train the next SP seems prudent.
- Location
- Leeds
As you mention it may have been honorary they may have not established any rules, and it wasn't until he was leading that the other patriarchs and matriarch came together to actually figure out the rules such as term length or selection method going forward.
Pretty unlikely that Teclis ever fought a duel with the Staff of Volans like we saw Dragomas do.
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I'm not gonna lie, I was under the impression Teclis was only around for a couple years, max.
I really have to wonder what he was planning on putting in the curriculum that couldn't be done in over two decades. Even if he presumably spent a lot of time early on setting things up.
Guess he took his time because he thought there wasn't a rush.
I really have to wonder what he was planning on putting in the curriculum that couldn't be done in over two decades. Even if he presumably spent a lot of time early on setting things up.
Guess he took his time because he thought there wasn't a rush.
- Location
- Leeds
well... he is an elf.
And theres not one single curriculum. And theres the complex political and theological issues that needed to be resolved.
And there may have also been a smallish war going on wasn't there?
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I think a good amount of time would be used for "how the fuck do i teach mayflies about quantum physics." It's not quite that bad but condensing the curriculum for a elf who has millennia for a human who at most has centuries seems complicated. Also translating quaish methods to mono wind methods has to be a headscratcher too.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Right, but he accomplished that in a couple months.
His first students were slinging Battle Magic outside the walls of Kislev City within a year or two of Teclis entering the Empire, before the actual Colleges themselves were built.
Yes, he managed to get them into fighting shape, that doesn't mean they all knew the theory or meta physics behind the spells he thought them. It's a bit like giving a soldier a rocket launcher, he can fire it no problem but don't ask him to assemble the warhead.
- Location
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I wonder how many of those early successes where people who were already members of existing magical traditions.
If those are Druids and Hedgewise and so on thats doing that then we're not witnessing a successful curriculum we're looking at his political success rebranding them.
E: And if they are literally new with no prior experience he still needs to prove that they're capable of training their replacements. And without whatever bullshit teaching ability Teclis had, it doesn't exist in the colleges today because apprentices take years.
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Voikirium
SV's Estalia Guy
- Location
- Ruritania Illinois
- Pronouns
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My theory is that what Teclis didn't get to teach were all very solidly on the "nice to have" side of things rather than anything actually that important. Like Orbs of Sorcery and etc. rather than anything really foundational.
Also possibly introducing them to the various, well, not mono-Wind but close as you're going to get, traditions on Ulthuan, though that one admittedly doesn't really work in DL verse.
Also possibly introducing them to the various, well, not mono-Wind but close as you're going to get, traditions on Ulthuan, though that one admittedly doesn't really work in DL verse.
I think he didn't teach the orbs of sorcery because you'd need some sort of quaysh to make them correctly. So teclis didn't teach what couldn't be learned.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
This is the main passage from Realms of Sorcery, judge for yourself:
Worth noting the second paragraph- Volans restrained himself from ever touching magic and solely trained his windsight, while Von Tarnus was a member of the Carroburg Greatswords and not a part of any magical tradition, but it was those two that took to his lessons the best.
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