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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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I feel like having the Hedgewise(or at least, a particular group of Hedgewise - they're not exactly a monolith) at the table for the Project will help with enabling diplomacy between the Hedgewise and any Colleges also at the table for the future. Establishing more precedent for peaceful negotations is valuable.

I feel like the precedent will be stronger if they're there for laying the foundations, as well.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
At this early stage, I suspect any chaos interference will be opportunistic. I can't see much trouble from cults at the moment, because we're mostly inside an elven city and I suspect their gods don't give the Four much room for a foothold.
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I'm not a subscriber to the theory, but there is a lot of in-universe speculation about Khaine and Khorne being the same guy in different guises. Elves of all stripes deny this of course.
 
Mopman43 said:
We can use a great deed to propose a law at an Electors Meet.

Game out how you're going to get 8/15 electors to vote yes on it.
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I'm not thinking of:
Boney said:
Raising a topic at an Elector's Meet for serious discussion and contemplation, and anyone otherwise neutral on the topic would vote for it.
Give you the right to address the Meet on a topic they're about to vote towards, and your opinion and any points you raise will be given serious weight.
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I am referring to:
Boney said:
Write a specific law or treaty for the Emperor's consideration, and if he sees no significant problems with it he is likely to enshrine it in law.
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You're absolutely correct that the Emperor would still need to consider the political realities, of course.
 
Boney said:
How do you distinguish supernaturally-induced trust from respectful deference paid to a VIP visitor?
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To expand on that: How do you distinguish such trust without spilling the secret that you're trying to figure out which goddesses are Ranald's daughters, resulting in "wait, Ranald has daughters," which is exactly what we're trying to avoid here.

The obvious method would be to intentionally overstep one's bounds to the point where just being a VIP wouldn't explain the trust you were receiving... But there's no way to do THAT without deliberately pissing off the clergy of (N-2) goddesses, where N is the number of goddesses in the Old World. Not worth it.
 
@Boney, how well can Mathilde and the dwarves see in the dark? I had a thought to bring in Illuminate the Edifice down into the Black Library, but if night vision is already a non-issue there wouldn't be much of a point.
 
Andres said:
@Boney, how well can Mathilde and the dwarves see in the dark? I had a thought to bring in Illuminate the Edifice down into the Black Library, but if night vision is already a non-issue there wouldn't be much of a point.
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In a magic-rich environment, Mathilde can use Magesight to navigate in the dark. And Dwarven miners have had a while to wrestle with the problem of it being dark where they're mining.
 
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Andres said:
@Boney, how well can Mathilde and the dwarves see in the dark? I had a thought to bring in Illuminate the Edifice down into the Black Library, but if night vision is already a non-issue there wouldn't be much of a point.
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Boney already answered you, but I had this in my multiquote as a reference and it was relevant, so:
Boney said:
Darkness has always been an enemy of humanity. Every day when the sun goes down, the world becomes a more hostile place. Fire can push back the darkness a little, but at night the world belongs to creatures more adapted to the dark.

From a certain point of view, you are one of those creatures.

For the majority of your life, you have been shaping Ulgu, and in return Ulgu has shaped you. The most obvious manifestation of this - your 'arcane mark' - is the uneasiness of fire in your presence. But just as fundamental, if less visible, a change is that in places where there's no light to be found, the ebb and flow of Ulgu around you reveals the area around you as clearly as if the noon sun illuminated it. The ignorant call it Witchsight, but to the Colleges of Magic, it is Magesight - the ability to see the movements of the Winds of Magic. And when one is attuned the the Wind of Shadow, darkness can be as revealing as the light.

You stride with confidence through the near-total darkness of the Underway, stepping around the occasional pile of rubble. If the sheltered pathway leading up to it was not proof enough that this cave system was artificial, then the way it remained a constant width and height as it spiralled downwards through the mountain would clinch it. There were no offshoots or caverns or fissures, just a single gentle slope, with only the occasional bit of rubble to mark some three thousand years without maintenance.
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Angelform said:
By not appearing to be a VIP visitor. I'm given to understand Mathilde possesses some degree of skill in such matters.

Also we have seen the effect of the Protractor and Night Prowler faces of the Coin. They are not subtle.
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Perhaps I'm misreading your tone, but being snippy with the QM does nothing to support your point.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Would someone please point me at a post as to why Father is an ideal coin side at the moment?

[X] Plan Disregard WEBMAT, Acquire AP (Fatherless)
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@picklepikkl described it a little in his plan post, in the spoilers on why he made two plans:
picklepikkl said:
The main difference is whether we use the Father to recruit the Hedgewise or whether we put the Gambler on the Lay the foundations action and do something else. I prefer picking up the Hedgewise with the Father, because I don't think Gambler will be very helpful for Lay the foundations (when a ton of dice are being rolled, which is my expectation from having a dozen mages in a room, +20 to two of those die rolls is much weaker). But since this is a controversial point and I don't mind swinging back to pick up the Hedgewise later that much, I made two versions.
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I argued a bit for the Gambler here and you can follow that comment chain down a bit to see some discussion that basically reiterates those two stances.
 
Angelform said:
By not appearing to be a VIP visitor. I'm given to understand Mathilde possesses some degree of skill in such matters.

Also we have seen the effect of the Protractor and Night Prowler faces of the Coin. They are not subtle.
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If you think there is an extremely straightforward solution to the mystery that plays to Mathilde's strengths and can be performed with a single AP, then the thing to do is to suggest that action to the thread and try to convince people to vote for it. This constraint on possible solutions that you find 'extremely annoying' is entirely imagined.
 
Angelform said:
Which is extremely annoying. Because unlike the out-of-place-Beastmen mystery this is a puzzle that Mathilde could solve very simply and easily.

Set Coin to Father, visit every female deity worshipping cult in the Old world. Done. Mystery solved. Between Dawi airlines and her shadowsteed it wouldn't even take more than a month or so.
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If it would 'only' take about a month, then that sounds like an action that we would spend one AP on. Not something that Mathilde would automatically do on her own, or for free.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
If we're going in disguise, I fully expect the Father not to work.
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I hadn't thought about that before, but it makes sense thinking about it.

Ranald takes the compartmentalization of assumed/obfuscated identities very seriously, whether they're notorious Night Prowling thieves, Protector vigilantes, or Deceivers deceiving. Different identity, different person.
 
MooseHowl said:
I hadn't thought about that before, but it makes sense thinking about it.

Ranald takes the compartmentalization of assumed/obfuscated identities very seriously, whether they're notorious Night Prowling thieves, Protector vigilantes, or Deceivers deceiving. Different identity, different person.
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The Protector applies to disguised alter-egos, though. And the wording in both of them simply refers to 'you.'
 
I think using the Gambler on the Foundations will only be a relatively minor improvement in comparison to having the Hedgewise on board for it.

I think the other benefits of doing the Hedgewise recruitment outweigh that improvement: they'll have a stronger position on the table by being involved from the get-go which will let them be more invested, we lay groundwork for more positive College-Hedgewise interactions in the future, we get to figure out more Father stuff, we get to see more interesting perspectives...

I view this project not just as being valuable for the healing of Waystones, but also for laying the groundwork for more diplomatic possibilities between magical cultures that normally don't engage with each other much. I feel like the future of this world is dependent on the cooperation between diverse peoples, and on their ability to learn from one another.
 
picklepikkl said:
(And besides, it's not just out of game guesses. IC research, as represented by our book purchases, plays a role. Based on the book we acquired from the Eonir, for instance, we dismissed Hekarti as a possibility even though previously she had been prominent in Daughter-theorizing.)
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I think I missed the explicit deconfirmation bit? I mean yeah now I think about that line of theory got dropped real suddenly, do you mind providing the chapter?

Boney said:
The decision was made that the We would self-manage their social education. If they want to read books and are psychologically unable to give those books up after they have read them, then the solution to that is for them to buy those books. Part of self-determination is the ability to make decisions that they may regret in the future when they have a better understanding of the world and the value of money.
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Ah sorry, didn't mean to imply I thought the We were acting dumb or anything. I--as someone who very much enjoys non-essential luxuries (long glance at my computer and quest participation lol)--think it's legit cool the We have gone from looking at silk trading as pure "give up Protein Form A for more Protein Mass in Form B" (which is how I interpret that blurb about them trading silk for twice it's mass in goblin, skaven or livestock) to "exchange Protein Source for something not directly related to calorie needs, but fullfills other not-directly-subsistence-related desire." I'm sure some philospher can come up with why the We potentially wanting more 'stuff' is bad for reasons, but I think it's cool and just wanted reiterate that Spider Collective news+updates no matter how small bring a smile to my face and always cheer me up. They're so damned cool! (inb4 despair at fixation at a relatively small part of the quest vs all the other stuff with more effort put into it than a offhand comment about We buying books.)
 
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I'm pretty sure we don't know anywhere close to all of the female deities in the empire, along with the fact that a bunch are likely to be too small or remote to have been recorded in a book we can buy.

But you know who would know who one of the sisters is?

The other sister.

Find one and I bet they point us to the other.
 
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Codex said:
Perhaps I'm misreading your tone
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You are.

Boney has on many occasions chastised people for 'micro-managing' Mathilde. Pointing out that Mathilde is a highly trained, very experienced and intelligent individual who can be relied upon to be reasonably competent in carrying out the actions we vote for. As such when they asks how she could overcome a simple obstacle, one she overcame just last turn, I assume they are making a joke.

Boney said:
If you think there is an extremely straightforward solution to the mystery that plays to Mathilde's strengths and can be performed with a single AP, then the thing to do is to suggest that action to the thread and try to convince people to vote for it. This constraint on possible solutions that you find 'extremely annoying' is entirely imagined.
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Imagined perhaps. But I find it noteworthy that you responded with an aggressive paragraph rather than the usual "try it and find out".
Still if that is your ruling.

Write in action: [] Visit all female-deity worshipping cults in the Old World to see if they worship one of Ranald's Daughters.

[X] Plan Disregard WEBMAT, Acquire AP, Find the Daughters
-[X] One Overwork Action
-[X] COIN: The Father
-[X] WEB-MAT: Hire someone as a full-time Gyrocopter pilot (Adela)
-[X] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones.
-[X] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Tindomiel)
-[X] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[X] Investigate how the Vitae reacts to a power stone.
-[X] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in the Sunken Palace.
-[X] KAU: Decide who your library staff will consist of, and go about recruiting them.
-[X] SERENITY: Write a book: Windsoak Mushrooms (1/2)
-[X] Visit all female-deity worshipping cults in the Old World to see if they worship one of Ranald's Daughters.

Modified the leading plan, replaced '[] Attempt to bring a non-Order magical tradition into the Waystone Project (Nordlander Haléthan Hedgewise)'
 
I'm somewhat skeptical of our ability to figure out a way to handily exploit the mechanics of the Father coin to figure out the Daughters easy-peasy when we haven't actually ever used the Father and seen it in action.
 
Angelform said:
You are.

Boney has on many occasions chastised people for 'micro-managing' Mathilde. Pointing out that Mathilde is a highly trained, very experienced and intelligent individual who can be relied upon to be reasonably competent in carrying out the actions we vote for. As such when they asks how she could overcome a simple obstacle, one she overcame just last turn, I assume they are making a joke.
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Boney was clearly, honestly and sincerely replying to you, not making a joke. If your reply was meant to be honest and sincere as well, then you've clearly failed at conveying that with your condescending tone. Your continued replies don't give me any confidence that you are acting with genuine respect.
 
Angelform said:
You are.

Boney has on many occasions chastised people for 'micro-managing' Mathilde. Pointing out that Mathilde is a highly trained, very experienced and intelligent individual who can be relied upon to be reasonably competent in carrying out the actions we vote for. As such when they asks how she could overcome a simple obstacle, one she overcame just last turn, I assume they are making a joke.

Imagined perhaps. But I find it noteworthy that you responded with an aggressive paragraph rather than the usual "try it and find out".
Still if that is your ruling.
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I think this conversation would go a lot more smoothly if you considered the possibility that I am capable of overlooking things, even things that seem obvious to you, without it being an act of deliberate malice on my part. This is not an adversarial relationship, and I find it aggravating when people treat it as one.
 
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