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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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No real surprises here, but still a nice update to read. I've also taken an immediate liking to Okri, and hope he gets his prototype gatling guns out the door ASAP so Mathilde can eat her own words (thoughts?). :V
 
horngeek said:
Her implication seems to be 'once the project shows results' to me.
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Can be both. Either we show results/potential worthy of shifting the attention from Orks to finding out if Athel Loren would have issues with Laurelorn, or we deal with the Orks and they reroute the effort towards finding out if joining the project could cause problems with Athel Loren.

Considering we are laying foundation ASAP, its likely gonna be the results rather than dealing with Iron Orks. We don't have time to prance around anymore.
 
jjffjhjf said:
I don't expect to see significant results from any of Okri Drakkison's stuff for at least another 50-100 years. Though minor variations on already proven concepts are certainly feasible before then. Still, a Dawi working on a proper machine-gun? That's a scary thing indeed, and one I can only hope we are around long enough to see succeed. Very few things would screw over the skaven more than a proper machine gun.
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Considering that about half the enemies of order are of massive hordes variety machine guns would be a massive game changer in general. However there is a problem machine guns need bullets. Lots of bullets, tons of bullet, more bullets then the dwarfs could ever craft. In world war 2 about 5K to 5OK bullets were shot for every death.

I have doubts that they could craft 50k bullets between battles.
 
fictionfan said:
Considering that about half the enemies of order are of massive hordes variety machine guns would be a massive game changer in general. However there is a problem machine guns need bullets. Lots of bullets, tons of bullet, more bullets then the dwarfs could ever craft. In world war 2 about 5K to 5OK bullets were shot for every death.

I have doubts that they could craft 50k bullets between battles.
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Sounds like dawi craftsmanship needs to partner with umgi mass-production here. Dwarves make the guns, humans make the bullets, and both sides come out ahead.
 
Boney said:
Is there really any chance of a machine so portable as to be carried to be able to replicate its functioning? Surely not.
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Why does this remind me of that one time Mathilde grazed over the idea of incandescent illumination- or some such when she experimentet with lightning. haha.

Funny seeing 'blindspots' of the characters point of view, when magitek tech tree makes much more sense than regular mundane tech. Although sufficiently advanced technology indistinguishable to magic would fit right in with the whole Old Ones plan in warhammer me thinks. :p
 
Thank you for the dense update @Boney. You've provided far more than I expected and I appreciate it. Please take a well deserved rest.

There's quite a bit to talk about. Perhaps the most interesting being poor Khazrak One Eye getting off-screened. He didn't even get to take Todbringer's eye it seems. That's some serious background butterflies. Todbringer is probably barely the same person that he is in canon.
 
mathymancer said:
Fun update. Some scattered takeaways:


This appears in the summary of the vote tally, but is then absent from the update. To be given hope only to then have it taken from you - I now know what the Dawi who lived through the Skedanbryn felt like.
In all seriousness I did get 4 out of the 6 options I voted for, so I'm not really complaining, but I think this line's inclusion in the post is accidental and it should probably be removed.

Yep, that's what I figured. We'll have to revisit the question of recruiting the Dasmels if the books we buy seem really promising (I would hope that literal divine intervention counts as something more tangible than dreams) but no point getting into it now before we actually see what those books have to say.

That's the trouble with the Skull River business, isn't it? The prime suspects - Marienburg and the Empire - don't really have much to gain and they have a lot to lose, but some sub-factions in those factions might have managed to convince themselves otherwise. I hope we'll get to follow up on the investigation sometime soon.

So the question of whether or not we can get Verenan books is answered, and the answer is yes, but you have to approach each Verenan library on its own - there won't be any 'get an agreement with all Verenans' option. Different libraries will wanted different things, but the main two things are:
1. More BOÖK
2. More security (and ideally more Verenan security)
Good to know.
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I think the Damsels will be easiest to get if we just wait for having actual results. Yes we could speed up the process, but we should look into what we already have first anyway.

Chopak said:
Dwarfs mimicking Skaven equipment? What has the world come to.
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Aggressive Longbeard grumbling.

Honestly that sounds like a gamechanger as long as they can figure out bullet production.

Aule said:
When it is written "cursed land of Sylvania", how literal is it?
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Yes. Just yes.

It started with a warpstone hail and then spent forever and a half soaking Dhar. While ruled by necromancers and vampires.

Dark as Silver said:
I'm accepting bets whether this guy is a Lorekeeper or Scrollbearer. :p
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I'd say Scrollbearer. Not because its likely to be right, but because I'll get great odds on that bet :p
 
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The next morning you go through your incoming correspondence and find reports from the EIC confirming what you heard during the Barazdeg celebrations: the long siege of the remaining holdouts has concluded with one Vampire killed and its remains under guard and the other currently being pursued through the countryside, and with extremely light casualties sustained by the Army of Stirland. Some are grumbling that this proves the sieges were unnecessary, but most agree that it's a result of the sieges serving their exact purpose. Exactly whose problem Eastern Stirland will be is still up in the air, but with it no longer an active warzone there's hope that some semblance of peace might settle upon Stirland. Wilhelmina has taken the opportunity to enter into agreements with the Black Guard of Morr and something calling itself the 'Council of Manhorak' to handle trade into and out of the new provinces, and presumably the second anyone accepts rule over the remaining areas they'll find Wilhelmina looming behind them with a contract and a quill. At this point there's no disputing that the EIC has complete dominance over trade and transportation within Stirland.


Library Purchases:
[ ] [LIBRARY] Colleges of Magic: name four magical, non-divine topics to acquire all available Empire books on.
[ ] [LIBRARY] Barak Varr booksellers: name three public topics to acquire all available Empire and Dwarven books on.
[ ] [LIBRARY] Library of Mournings: name two non-magical topics to hire Cityborn scribes to copy all available Laurelorn books on.
[ ] [LIBRARY] Back-fill.
Instead of seeking books on specific topics, fill in some of the sections of your existing library where you have some of the available books from the Empire and the Dwarves on a subject, but not all. Will acquire more books total than other options, but cannot be directed.

Dwarf Favour Purchases
Aethyric Vitae can be spent instead of favour at an exchange rate of 3 favour per gallon; for Rune-related purchases, this will also guarantee the cooperation of Runelords who may otherwise be disinterested. To use this, simply add 'paid by Vitae' or similar to an item you are voting for.
[ ] [DWARF] No purchase.
[ ] [DWARF] Write-in.

College Favour Purchases
[ ] [COLLEGE] No purchase.
[ ] [COLLEGE] Write-in.

Other Purchases
[ ] [PURCHASE] No purchase.
[ ] [PURCHASE] Write-in.

- There will be a two hour moratorium.
 
jjffjhjf said:
I don't expect to see significant results from any of Okri Drakkison's stuff for at least another 50-100 years. Though minor variations on already proven concepts are certainly feasible before then. Still, a Dawi working on a proper machine-gun? That's a scary thing indeed, and one I can only hope we are around long enough to see succeed. Very few things would screw over the skaven more than a proper machine gun.
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The skavens, but also the greenskins, the undeads, the beastmen and the demons. One of the biggest advantages of the Order's enemies are their numerical superiority.

Machine guns would nullify that, and without an industrial basis you can create your own. Which means the greenskins and beastmen can't ever create them, and the WoC would need to rely even more on the Choas Dwarfs, and need very long logistical lines for all the ammunition.

fictionfan said:
In world war 2 about 5K to 5OK bullets were shot for every death.
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I agree that the dwarfs couldn't make enough bullets, but the fact that greenskins attack in big blobs (and would have problems using another tactic given their impetuousness) and skavens in tight tunnels, it would mitigate the problem.
 
A cheap reliable machine gun would change the face of warfare in the Old World, which leads me to conclude that it either won't be cheap, and thus common enough to be anything more than a situational game changer, or won't be reliable within our lifetime, which means we won't see it anyway.

I am honestly not enthused about technological progress in Warhammer Fantasy tbh. Rare novelty items of terrifying power are fun, but WW1 simulator in my renneisance magic fantasy is rubbing me the wrong way.
 
[ ] [LIBRARY] Library of Mournings: Trade & Forest Spirits
[ ] [PURCHASE] Write-in. - A dwarven axe for Baba Brzeginias/Gerdouen

So these are my thoughts. I'm conditionally ok with Backfill if the goal is to then use it to trade with libraries that wouldn't normally have access to empire/dwarven books, like the library of mournings, not a fan if we're then going to head over to, say, the Verenans though.
 
Jreengus said:
[ ] [LIBRARY] Library of Mournings: Trade & Forest Spirits
[ ] [PURCHASE] Write-in. - A dwarven axe for Baba Brzeginias/Gerdouen

So these are my thoughts. I'm conditionally ok with Backfill if the goal is to then use it to trade with libraries that wouldn't normally have access to empire/dwarven books, like the library of mournings, not a fan if we're then going to head over to, say, the Verenans though.
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I think we should be book mining. I don't want that old vampire library to be raided.
 
[ ] [PURCHASE] The Karaz Ankor: Extensive and Esoteric Eonir (250 gc)

I'm in favour of writing a book on dwarven diplomacy next turn. Eonir books on the Karaz Ankor will improve the product and provide additional perspective and information on the Everlasting Realm we can communicate in the book. Every nation bordering the Empire would have use of the book, so not only do we have a wide income base, it'd also be helping a lot of people, the dwarves included.

Jreengus said:
So these are my thoughts. I'm conditionally ok with Backfill if the goal is to then use it to trade with libraries that wouldn't normally have access to empire/dwarven books, like the library of mournings, not a fan if we're then going to head over to, say, the Verenans though.
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My understanding of our library queue is this: first we've got Drakenhof, then Vlag, and then the Verenans have to compete with the Library of Mournings, Karaz-a-Karak - with whom we have a favour - and the Librarium Secularum - which we can get access to in its entirety with a Great Deed. Vlag and Everpeak can use Imperial books, the Librarium and Verena can use Dwarven books, and both we and the Library of Mournings can use both.
 
pucflek said:
A cheap reliable machine gun would change the face of warfare in the Old World, which leads me to conclude that it either won't be cheap, and thus common enough to be anything more than a situational game changer, or won't be reliable within our lifetime, which means we won't see it anyway.

I am honestly not enthused about technological progress in Warhammer Fantasy tbh. Rare novelty items of terrifying power are fun, but WW1 simulator in my renneisance magic fantasy is rubbing me the wrong way.
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I'm expecting stuff more like mid-to-late 19th century rather than WW1, personally. Hand cranked and carriage portable, rather than man-portable true automatics.
 
Boney said:
"I can see why Dwarves wouldn't be comfortable with that. But the announcement the conclave gave was a lot more than just saying it was plausible. What takes it from 'it's technically possible' to them being sure enough to announce it to the world?"

"More than the need to assuage the guilt and shame of a Karaz Ankor that had given up on Karak Vlag? Well, I speculate, but if they were able to communicate with your Ranald and put the question to Him, would He have given them a straight answer?"

You consider that. "Ah."
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If you got a hotline to Him. And if he answers.

It's be by rolling on the floor laughing and thats as indicative of anything in any direction.
Boney said:
"As far as you are aware," she echoes. "As far as I am aware, too. But we would have to become much further aware for that to be a safe endeavour. And the effort of becoming so much further aware is effort that could be spent elsewhere - such as, for example, the Iron Orcs of the Irrana Mountains. But if you were to come to us with something more tangible than dreams, then perhaps we might be tempted." She gives you a parting smile and a little wave before she disappears back into the crowd.
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So no sense getting them until we have actual results, at which point we'd be working on implementation rather than proof of concept.

Figures.
Boney said:
"So now you'll be able to row from Black Water to the Aver, so what?" Arkat Fooger, head of House Fooger and the only Dwarf on Marienburg's ruling council, says to you. "Marienburg isn't built on a single accident of geography. Idiots think Marienburg has a stranglehold on the Empire, but what difference does it really make that all sea trade goes through us? Bretonnian trade can as easily go through Helmgart as through us, Tilean trade already has the River of Echoes, the Karaz Ankor is half built on the Empire's borders and the rest could go through Black Fire Pass. If some idiot has bet their shirt on something like supplying Arabyan coffee to Averheim then they're sunk, but if that's the foundation of a family then they're already underwater. No, what this means is that for a few years a bunch of amateurs and dilettantes are going to try to undercut Marienburg by going through Barak Varr, and apart from a handful of goods from Estalia and Araby they'll find that Marienburg has more going for it than the Reik and most of the routes will be back through us in ten years."

"Not everyone from Marienburg seems to agree."

"Pfah, it's because they're manlings. Right and proper they put their elders in charge, but their elders have maybe a decade of living left in them, and they go whenever they go instead of when they're at peace with going. They feel Morr's breath on their neck, and it makes them as hasty as a beardling in a brothel. Things going back to normal ten years from now might as well be never for them, because it means that they'll be less rich for the rest of their lives. So they fret and moan and rattle their sabres until they do something stupid enough to get their hands slapped and remember they've got a lot more to lose than to gain."

"Stupid things such as...?"

He snorts. "I take it you're getting at that business with the mine on the river? I'd be happy to throw the de Roelefs under the boat since they're the ones that stand to lose the most from the canals, but truth of the matter is I haven't a clue. All I know is that if anyone had come to me with an idea like that, I'd have buried them myself and saved you the trouble. Things like this, the big problem is that you aren't limited to the few who might actually benefit, there's also all the people who are stupid enough to think they might benefit."
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That sounds like a decade of saber rattling.

We already know this, but its good to have word from their angle, namely that:
-The Canal is not a replacement for Marienburg. Marienburg remains the best route in general. They'd lose more than half their current income because of just how extortionate monopoly trading rates are, but they're likely losing closer to 10% of the actual trade value.

-Monopoly breaking into a duopoly is a major change, but not a fatal one to Marienburg as a polity. However, they're going to be doing a lot of frantic adjustments and WILL take losses, because they are going to have long term commitments funded and driven by having a monopoly.

-Its probably going to end the fortunes of a number of the current dominant families in Marienburg, but it'd also raise new ones.

TLDR -Decentralized Oligarchic Council doesn't behave like a Centralized Feudal Hierarchy. The same high ability for independent action that makes them good at trading also makes it nigh impossible to stop components from doing whatever they think best.
Boney said:
He considers that. "There are two distinct groups of people within the Cult of Verena who seek dominion over libraries: the Lorekeepers who see knowledge as sacrament and wish to spread it, and the Scrollbearers who see knowledge as power and wish to hoard it. Identify which you are dealing with as soon as possible, as you will need two entirely separate kinds of bait to ensnare each. The Lorekeepers would value an institution who can guarantee the safety and spread of knowledge entrusted to it, and if you wish to present yourself as positively as possible to such people, a chapter of the Knights of the Scroll to guard your library would be the most effective way of doing so. The Scrollbearers, however, do not have a better nature that can be enticed thusly, and so you must resort to a quid pro quo approach if you find yourself in need of what only they can offer."
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Lorekeepers here would be better at our ideological goals, but I think we'd be facing greater challenges with getting buy-in, since a lot of the libraries we know are going to be more Scrollbearer aligned, interested in keeping organizational secrets, secret.

As for getting Scrollbearer buy in, copies of exclusive Elven Lore Books are a good currency.
Boney said:
They want to start trading and so do we, but they refuse to build a road through their swamp - can't blame them, considering how useful it was against the Beastmen - and the only other alternatives will piss off Nordland or Marienburg or both. So perhaps we just have to be patient and let things simmer down before we escalate things even further.
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Well, pissing off Marienburg does seem to have prospects, but its the kind of geopolitical chicken that'd probably start a shooting war at some point.


Boney said:
Aye, and build I will. That Gotri does his best but his heart is in the sky, he's more familiar with a swashplate than an inclined plane. The way of the future is in Dwarf-portable weaponry, and Zhufbar's Drakegun is just the start. I had a few ideas to start with, but having seen some of the reading material you managed to nab from the former inhabitants of here, I've got much more than a few now.
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I can already hear the conservatives going REEE.
Boney said:
We refound Karak Eight Peaks Ironbreakers, give 'em something that holds real punch but can still be carried around, and pile 'em into those flying machines of Gotri's, and we'll be able to deliver a proper kicking to anywhere that needs it on a moment's notice.
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Dwarf Deep Strike?

Being able to drop a force of shock on demand would fill a rather significant dwarf doctrine gap. No solution for tunnel fighting though, which is a shame.
Boney said:
You allow him to talk your ear half off about said ideas, including an entirely mechanical equivalent of the Ratling Gun, an explosive charge launcher based on Adela's design but not reliant on being carried by a Bright Wizard, and refinements to be made to the current Drakegun designs to extend their range and increase the damage inflicted upon those caught on the wrong end on them, before you thank him for his time and escape. He's clearly ambitious and seems to know what he's talking about, but you can't help but feel he might be biting off more than he can chew. You're intimately familiar with the inside of a Ratling Gun and the many insane yet inspired ways it exploits the nature of warpstone to function. Is there really any chance of a machine so portable as to be carried to be able to replicate its functioning? Surely not.
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Ratling Gun

Entirely possible mechanically. Wouldn't perform exactly the same - from when we studied it, Ratling Guns use Metal Storm style auto-ignition methods but you can break it down into separate concepts:
-Projectile is integral to propellant - Pretty sure dwarves got the concept of cartridges already, if not in widespread deployment yet.

-Projectile is automatically replaced in firing position upon launch. Can be done mechanically. It wouldn't be as seamless as a literal rubber tube sucking balls into a hopper, but there are ways to do it with mechanical feeds. The bigger problem is making it dwarf portable, since its unlikely to take well to being struck violently.

-Projectile is automatically ignited once loaded. I can see a rune of fire doing this without impact, but I imagine they'd have doubts about using anything so volatile.


Boney said:
It's also only open to the family of the spouses, you suspect because the ceremony includes taking both spouses aside and having them confirm in private that they're entering into the union of their own free will, and if the Priestesses of Valaya have to announce the wedding is off and then beat any objectors with hammers until they stop objecting, that's a lot easier without bystanders around to complicate matters.
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That sounds like a good idea.
Also I wonder how often it actually triggers, or if they just double down and make sure that theres enough pressure that they'd consent even in private.
 
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