Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[French Cowboy]

Our equipment can only be considered complete if we are writing off windherding as a dead end. If we do actually develop windherding any piece of equipment that currently consists of 1 enchantment can then be improved simply by making another piece that also has an additional enchantment on it.

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That, plus we might still figure out divine magic casting, plus we might be able to learn other winds if we can figure out how the damsels or ice witches can cast more than one lore of magic.

We are just now entering the league of being able to fight weaker Legendary Lords/Heroes, if we give up on improving our equipment at this point we're never going to be able to challenge greater foes of Order. Our equipment now is good, but it can still certainly be better, if we're lucky even the blade and belt can be improved as Kragg/Thorek's knowledge of runecraft increases due to our discoveries and the waystone project.

 

[Glau]

I'm not sold on the flask (but I'm not going to open that up again.) But I would like to replace it at some point with a comparable shadow/windherder spell at 'some point'

for me, The Candle is very situational for an item we have in a 'standard' slot.

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I'll remind the doubters that we spent more than twice as much on the flask as the seed. Assuming that ANYTHING exists with more damage potential that we can get into a magic item seems foolish: this is top-of-the-line bright magister work.

And as such, it's most useful in cases like now, where we might want to, say, blow up a 30ft treeman before it smooshes our friend. Or wiping out a group of mages at one go.

The candle, tbh, is going to be useless right up until it is a lifesaver. Either we run into nugrelites or we don't, and so far we haven't. Not going to count on that luck continuing though, and we've got nothing else that would protect from sickness.

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

Also, I feel like the argument about the Staff of Volans is a bit pointless.

It's the badge of office for the Supreme Patriarch/Matriarch.

you don't get it if you are not the current Boss.

and if your the Boss, you kind of have to use it if you don't want to do a complete, full-cycle 360 no-scope Faux pas of treating the most cherished artefact of the college's found years as below you.

you might as well publically shit your robles at your optioning speech while you are at it.

 

[fictionfan]

, if we're lucky even the blade and belt can be improved as Kragg/Thorek's knowledge of runecraft increases due to our discoveries and the waystone project.

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Asking for an upgrade on our already legendary rune equipment seems like a major flax pass. They build that stuff to last. It isn't like getting a smart phone where the company deliberately makes it die so they can sell you the 'upgrade'.

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

The candle, tbh, is going to be useless right up until it is a lifesaver. Either we run into nugrelites or we don't, and so far we haven't. Not going to count on that luck continuing though, and we've got nothing else that would protect from sickness.

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if that's the case then everyone that has ever fought a nurgling is fucked. but shockingly, most soldiers pull through with a bit of care.

realistically, none of the sicknesses are instant kills, if you don't get them treated your boned, so when we are in the ass-end of nowhere and on our own when we fight a nrugling it would be needed.

but mathy has a lot of access to magic healing if given even a few days. so... I'm not saying its not a good thing to have in that off chance. but not having it is not a deal-breaker and its not pulling any weight at all for most of the quest.

 

[Mopman43]

The Belt already breaks the rules of Runesmithing as non-Kragg individuals understand it.

I'm not going to bet on getting anything better.

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

I'll remind the doubters that we spent more than twice as much on the flask as the seed. Assuming that ANYTHING exists with more damage potential that we can get into a magic item seems foolish: this is top-of-the-line bright magister work.

And as such, it's most useful in cases like now, where we might want to, say, blow up a 30ft treeman before it smooshes our friend. Or wiping out a group of mages at one go.

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also, just want to put out to the 'believers': spending a lot of money doesn't make a thing good. it makes it expensive.

Boney made what we asked for and what we throw Favour at: that doesn't mean it was not a misuse of resources.

edit: before I get my head bite off: that doest mean it was a misuse use either: you don't get to know before you buy with this type of stuff. the limiting factor is the NPC's skill.

I personally, don't think it was worth 20 favour in hindsight: I think we overshot and would have gotten the same result at... maybe 12? might have taken the guy longer, or not be as much of a priority. but 12 would have been him putting his all into it as well.

I also could be very, very wrong and that all stuff at this level has big drawback as bad as the flash.

 

[veekie]

On potential new staves, I'm game for having a go if we find a suitably badass material and learn a new related skill(whether Windherded enchantment getting out of the Lesser Magics stage, Powerstone creation or some neat relevant trick with AV). Sure, our current staff is hard to beat, but if we already have the materials its just to spend an AP to see whether we can beat that gacha.

After all the Staff of Mistery is amazing for our level of skill and available materials at the time, but new skills and materials open new opportunities.

 

[Glau]

if that's the case then everyone that has ever fought a nurgling is fucked. but shockingly, most soldiers pull through with a bit of care.

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It's kinda ironic to me that the actual killing plagues in WHF seem to always be the work of the skaven, in the end.

And I kinda get it; there'd not be much fun in Nurgle killing like 10% of your army every turn you spent out of barracks, but that's one of those things that seemed really weirdly tuned for fun over realism. Like, with a chaos plague god in play, I'd expect deaths to disease and sickness to at least equal historical rates, even with WHF constitution and magical healing factored in.

So yeah: I think Nurgle was nerfed HARD by requiring his demons to be things you can hit with a sword and not, you know, sentient diseases.

And that also means I am definitely going to treat the sickness you can get after fighting demons more like, say, Black Death than the modern flu.

Edit: as you may guess, Nurgle is my least favorite of the four by a long shot.

 

[Andres]

and if your the Boss, you kind of have to use it if you don't want to do a complete, full-cycle 360 no-scope Faux pas of treating the most cherished artefact of the college's found years as below you.

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No dude, that's not how it works at all. If you're a wizard you can use whatever kind of equipment you want. The way you're presenting it as is completely made up by you.

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

No dude, that's not how it works at all. If you're a wizard you can use whatever kind of equipment you want. The way you're presenting it as is completely made up by you.

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Or maybe I'm think about how people behave and act IRL in political and social body's, instead of assuming that they will act and think in the most convenient way to my play style.

Edit: The SM choicing to use their own creation instead of using the Staff of Voldans will likely be seen as a political/personal statement by the other power players as well as the wizard 'masses'. Regardless of what was meant.

That's not me making stuff up, that just understanding how people work.

 

[spiritualatheist]

[X] Spellcasters

 

[veekie]

It's kinda ironic to me that the actual killing plagues in WHF seem to always be the work of the skaven, in the end.

And I kinda get it; there'd not be much fun in Nurgle killing like 10% of your army every turn you spent out of barracks, but that's one of those things that seemed really weirdly tuned for fun over realism. Like, with a chaos plague god in play, I'd expect deaths to disease and sickness to at least equal historical rates, even with WHF constitution and magical healing factored in.

So yeah: I think Nurgle was nerfed HARD by requiring his demons to be things you can hit with a sword and not, you know, sentient diseases.

And that also means I am definitely going to treat the sickness you can get after fighting demons more like, say, Black Death than the modern flu.

Edit: as you may guess, Nurgle is my least favorite of the four by a long shot.

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I think in-verse(meta wise sentient disease don't sell models), daemons being primarily physical threats make sense, because they already use up massive amounts of magic constantly to exist in the material world at all. Its not about optimal so much as the main daemon archetypes being the most they can get away with.

And most of the disease as such are 'drones' powered from the main daemon body. Disperse the main daemon and the supernatural disease loses its power supply, and becomes whatever mundane pestilence it was augmented from.

 

[fictionfan]

Or maybe I'm think about how people behave and act IRL in political and social body's, instead of assuming that they will act and think in the most convenient way to my play style.

Edit: The SM choicing to use their own creation instead of using the Staff of Voldans will likely be seen as a political/personal statement by the other power players as well as the wizard 'masses'. Regardless of what was meant.

That's not me making stuff up, that just understanding how people work.

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It might even be seen positively. It is a major flex.

 

[French Cowboy]

Asking for an upgrade on our already legendary rune equipment seems like a major flax pass. They build that stuff to last. It isn't like getting a smart phone where the company deliberately makes it die so they can sell you the 'upgrade'.

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That depends both on the context and the approach. Kragg is an artist, and like basically all artists he probably views his older works with a lot of regrets, specifically these swords, because he couldn't make "properly".
If we come to him privately after we know he's improved his craft, and we appeal to his pride (something we've gotten fairly good at with dwarves), we could frame it as respecting his growth as Runesmith, then it's very likely he'll jump on an opportunity to fix his past issues with his earlier work.

It's all in the framing.

 

[consequences]

What I'm hearing is that we should turn Drycha into a Banner. Or maybe the centerpiece of a Battle Altar. Or possibly a recurring nemesis that never grants us a moment of rest as they hunt us to the ends of the world.

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

It might even be seen positively. It is a major flex.

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positive or negative: its still a statement. one that will get reactions, even if its her right to do so.

That's the thing about being a public leader, your choices get scrutantied.

So treating the choice to not use the Staff as something without consequences is silly.

Also, let's be honest, it would be seen as disrespectfully arrogant by everyone but the most 'fuck the system' member of the colleges.

 

[Andres]

Or maybe I'm think about how people behave and act IRL in political and social body's, instead of assuming that they will act and think in the most convenient way to my play style.

Edit: The SM choicing to use their own creation instead of using the Staff of Voldans will likely be seen as a political/personal statement by the other power players as well as the wizard 'masses'. Regardless of what was meant.

That's not me making stuff up, that just understanding how people work.

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It is not understanding how people work, it's misunderstanding how the Colleges of Magic works. Wizards are highly individualistic and frequently opt to use their own stuff all the time. Thyrus Gormann, a previous Supreme Patriarch, is known as the Grand Artificer for how famous he was for making stuff. He used his own stuff all the time while in office, including sometimes his own staff instead of the Staff of Volans. Shit's just normal for wizards. Even outside the Colleges, you have Roswita using a naval axe instead of her Runefang, and given she's nobility, you might've had a shred of an argument about that whole "oh it's just how people act don't you know".

 

[Mopman43]

If we come to him privately after we know he's improved his craft, and we appeal to his pride (something we've gotten fairly good at with dwarves), we could frame it as respecting his growth as Runesmith, then it's very likely he'll jump on an opportunity to fix his past issues with his earlier work.

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He's been doing what he does for a millennia and a half.

Forgive me if I think he's reached his pinnacle.

 

[French Cowboy]

He's been doing what he does for a millennia and a half.

Forgive me if I think he's reached his pinnacle.

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It is likely that he has reached his peak, but I expect that until his blades are on par with Runefangs, he will keep trying to improve his craft.

Especially in this version of WHF where he has a lot of new runes to study and attempt to learn from, between the Runes in the Elemental, and the Runes on that ancient Dawi Axe we recovered.

 

[A_Somebody]

That depends both on the context and the approach. Kragg is an artist, and like basically all artists he probably views his older works with a lot of regrets, specifically these swords, because he couldn't make "properly".
If we come to him privately after we know he's improved his craft, and we appeal to his pride (something we've gotten fairly good at with dwarves), we could frame it as respecting his growth as Runesmith, then it's very likely he'll jump on an opportunity to fix his past issues with his earlier work.

It's all in the framing.

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...I really don't think so. The dwarfen mindset is that you do not make anything unless you are 100% certain of it no its ands or buts. Him "improving" it after the fact would be the equivalent of acknowledging he gave a subpar product in the first place--since improvements are an implicit acknowledgement that the original product was lacking. The context of this gift was Kragg using his gathered 1000+ years of knowledge to create an artifact to repay a debt. In that light giving something subpar (which is how they'd view "can be improved afterwards") for the sake of quickly fibbing off, or cheating a debt, is like automatic Slayerdom Do Not Pass go territory.

 

[fictionfan]

positive or negative: its still a statement. one that will get reactions, even if its her right to do so.

That's the thing about being a public leader, your choices get scrutantied.

So treating the choice to not use the Staff as something without consequences is silly.

Also, let's be honest, it would be seen as arrogant by everyone but the most 'fuck the system' member of the colleges.

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The statement in question being that we are at least as powerful a wizard as Voldans. So we decided to use our own staff of Mathilde.

However, if we do get our hands on the Staff of Voldans I fully expect it to be an upgrade. If it wasn't then the duels wouldn't focus so much on getting your hands on it.

Just saying that if our staff is better than Staff of Voldans it makes sense that we should use it from both a practical and political perspective. So long as that is actually in fact true.

 

[Mopman43]

the Runes on that ancient Dawi Axe we recovered.

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The axe that he can't be sure isn't from the Chaos Dwarfs and has locked away.

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

The statement in question being that we are at least as powerful a wizard as Voldans. So we decided to use our own staff of Mathilde.

However, if we do get our hands on the Staff of Voldans I fully expect it to be an upgrade. If it wasn't then the duels wouldn't focus so much on getting your hands on it.

Just saying that if our staff is better than Staff of Voldans it makes sense that we should use it from both a practical and political perspective. So long as that is actually in fact true.

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technically Voldans didn't make the staff, Fredrick von Tarnus did, the best enchanter in the college's history.

he just give it to Voldans.

edit: The Staff of Voldans, The Silver Seal and The Armour of Tarnus are the three big artefacts that he made.

 

[Andres]

The statement in question being that we are at least as power a wizard as Voldans. So we decided to use our own staff of Mathilde.

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It's not even that. Wizards are the guys who go "I have my setup just the way I want it", from top to bottom. Them opting to use their own stuff instead of the Colleges' stuff is normal. It's uncommon in the case of the Staff of Volans because of its power, but if someone chooses their own staff, the reaction of others will be "Well I guess it works for them". The Staff of Volans isn't the political equivalent of Ghal Maraz to the Colleges or to those outside of the Colleges.