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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Alratan said:
Actually, given the nature of the Cythari, which means their own devotees are very uklikely to; and how we think elves perceive their gods as things you personify while acting as them, I wonder how an elf would perceive the mind control that compels them to trust Mathilde if they're a worshipper of one of the twin daughters.
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I'm sorry, but that's a hell of a leap. How is:

Boney said:
[New face of the Coin - The Father: Ranald's daughters, and Their followers, will recognize you as being worthy of trust and faith.]
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Mindcontrol? We're literally just wearing a freemasons signet ring which declares us to be a friend, not hypnotising people. They will recognise us as being someone who can be trusted, not forced to believe we are trustworthy. We can still break that trust, prove that Ranald was wrong to declare us so.
 
Tobtorp said:
It also locks us out of the + 20 for any action and we don't know who the cults are, we can speculate but that's all we can do...
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We can do more than just speculate. We can use our library acquisitions to buy books on goddesses we suspect and we can spend social AP to talk to people about this. Aside from Heidi we could also try talking to uh whotsis face, the former hedgewise turncoat guy, if he worship Haethla.
 
Jreengus said:
We can do more than just speculate. We can use our library acquisitions to buy books on goddesses we suspect and we can spend social AP to talk to people about this. Aside from Heidi we could also try talking to uh whotsis face, the former hedgewise turncoat guy, if he worship Haethla.
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And as we need to give up the other sides of the coin if we do the social ap thing, which robs us of a +20. And I'm kinda curious what the books are going to reveal, because how the hell would they know about ranalds daughters when even we did not...
 
wrecksalot said:
Well, the coin gives us no special ability to detect the cults, and if we go looking there are probably rather a lot of cults that are trying to get on our good side, and Ranald didn't provide us any names, we would have to check one by one.
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It is not like chaos cults would randomly approach a Grey Lord Magister thinking to corrupt her with poisoned cookies, all but the most insane would run and the insane ones would just die. The sort of cult that might be able to corrupt Mathilde is not one we find by accident, it is one that finds us.
 
Sovereign Hunt said:
Well, it's over, I guess.

From an In-narrative perspective, I'm, well not happy, exactly, but it's satisfying enough; Ranald feels bad about shutting down something extremely important and repays that trust by letting Matty in on something equally important, and closer to heart.

Out-of-narrative… I'll get over it eventually.
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He didn't throw us a bone because he felt guilty, he showed us his family because he saw he could trust us.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I'm sorry, but that's a hell of a leap. How is:



Mindcontrol? We're literally just wearing a freemasons signet ring which declares us to be a friend, not hypnotising people. They will recognise us as being someone who can be trusted, not forced to believe we are trustworthy. We can still break that trust, prove that Ranald was wrong to declare us so.
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I read it as working like the Nightprowler, Deceiver, and Protector faces of the Coin, reaching into people's minds and changing how they think and feel. Given three of the existing four faces does that, it's not much of a stretch to assume that the fifth works on the same principe.
 
Tobtorp said:
And as we need to give up the other sides of the coin if we do the social ap thing, which robs us of a +20. And I'm kinda curious what the books are going to reveal, because how the hell would they know about ranalds daughters when even we did not...
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The Social AP being referred to is not the one used for actual Turn planning, it's the socialization Mathilde peforms in between her work hours.
 
wrecksalot said:
Well, the coin gives us no special ability to detect the cults, and if we go looking there are probably rather a lot of cults that are trying to get on our good side, and Ranald didn't provide us any names, we would have to check one by one.
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A Chaos cult also has no reason to look at us, and believe us to be more likely to trust them and be corrupted for whatever reason because we're wearing the coin.

Unless Ranalds keeping this a spectacularly poorly kept secret, I don't think they'd have any reason to treat us differently than normal.
 
Resonant said:
The Social AP being referred to is not the one used for actual Turn planning, it's the socialization Mathilde peforms in between her work hours.
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Yes and we need to specify which side of the coin we use at the beginning, and I already asked if it is possible to turn the coin mid turn, no it is not. So if we use the father side that's it for that turn.
 
Tobtorp said:
And as we need to give up the other sides of the coin if we do the social ap thing, which robs us of a +20. And I'm kinda curious what the books are going to reveal, because how the hell would they know about ranalds daughters when even we did not...
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No we don't, we literally just talk to them. No coin needed. We walk up to Heidi and hint that Ranald let us in on a big secret, do some back and forth banter to figure out if the secret is one she knows without revealing it then try to get her to spill the beans if she does know. For Mr possibly a Haethla worshipper we just ask him about her and the myths about her especially her origin, if he asks why we just say Ranald left us a riddle and we think she might be the answer then refuse to elaborate further.

As for what the books would reveal, clues on the origins of the godesses in question, maybe they have one agreed on origin maybe they have many competing stories like Ranald, either way Mathilde should be able to sift through it for hints that maybe they are the daughter of Ranald/Shallya.
 
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It might be a bit of a stretch, but the coin doesn't mention a range limit and we have some indication that in the right circumstances it can reach a long way to influence people when the conditions are met from past uses.

I don't expect it to hit all of their worshippers or something, but I wouldn't be completely surprised if it basically sent up a flair to the goddesses in question since they are directly named in the effect of this face of the artifact.

How they respond to that is a different question, but it's something to consider here.
 
Jreengus said:
No we don't, we literally just talk to them. No coin needed. We walk up to Heidi and hint that Ranald let us in on a big secret, do some back and forth banter to figure out if the secret is one she knows without revealing it then try to get her to spill the beans if she does know. For Mr possibly a Haethla worshipper we just ask him about her and the myths about her especially her origin, if he asks why we just say Ranald left us a riddle and we think she might be the answer then refuse to elaborate further.
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We have to have the Coin turned to the fifth face for it to take effect. Otherwise they have no reason to trust that we're in on the secret, and a lot of reasons to keep their mouth shut.

If we didn't need the fifth face of the Coin mind controlling His daughters' worshippers for us to successfully make contact, Ranald probably wouldn't have bothered to install that feature.
 
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Sovereign Hunt said:
...Is there a difference?
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...Yes?

Trusting us implies that he keeps this secret for a reason more than Just the lols. Like his kids safety.

In which case a father trusting us with something of that nature is BIG. Something you don't just tell people about because you feel like they might have lost sopmething but because you believe telling them won't put those you love at risk.
 
Jreengus said:
No we don't, we literally just talk to them. No coin needed. We walk up to Heidi and hint that Ranald let us in on a big secret, do some back and forth banter to figure out if the secret is one she knows without revealing it then try to get her to spill the beans if she does know. For Mr possibly a Haethla worshipper we just ask him about her and the myths about her especially her origin, if he asks why we just say Ranald left us a riddle and we think she might be the answer then refuse to elaborate further.

As for what the books would revel, clues on the origins of the godesses in question, maybe they have one agreed on origin maybe they have many competing stories like Ranald, either way Mathilde should be able to sift through it for hints that maybe they are the daughter of Ranald/Shallya.
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I give you Heidi, she might know something... Or she might be completely clueless (ranald never tells anyone everything)

But why would the hedge wise care about ranald? If they knew ranald was the father of their goddess that would get out fast. And as long as we don't have the face on father we don't get a trust bonus so we are just some random Magister that comes sniffing in their corner.
 
Alratan said:
I read it as working like the Nightprowler, Deceiver, and Protector faces of the Coin, reaching into people's minds and changing how they think and feel. Given three of the existing four faces does that, it's not much of a stretch to assume that the fifth works on the same principe.
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Except there's no possible reading of "they will recognise you as a person worthy of trust" that implies perceptions are being changed. When we wear the fifth face, they will simply notice that we are trusted by Ranald.
 
A +20 to a single action on a turn where we were probably going to put it on a recruitment action anyway is probably worse than flipping the coin to the Father if we think one or more of the targets might be a secret daughter - I expect the narrative impact of the Father to sufficiently outweigh the Gambler to make up for the uncertainty in targeting.

And beyond that, having established a Goddess as a daughter of Ranald, we can potentially hit their Cult up for more friendly help in the future.
 
Alratan said:
We have to have the Coin turned to the fifth face for it to take effect.
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The paragraph you quoted is literally me saying we don't need the fifth face active. We don't need divine aid to get Heidi to talk to us and I'd be very dissapointed if Kurtis (found his name) needed divinely compelling just to discuss basic facts about his goddess. (Assuming she is his goddess)

Infact, @Boney Is Mathilde aware of which group of hedgefolk Kurtis came from and whether or not he worships Haethla?

Tobtorp said:
But why would the hedge wise care about ranald? If they knew ranald was the father of their goddess that would get out fast. And as long as we don't have the face on father we don't get a trust bonus so we are just some random Magister that comes sniffing in their corner.
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I'm not saying Kurtis would know Haethla is the daughter of Ranald (Though I wouldn't be surprised if it was a secret kept among the more trusted members of both godesses cults) but like the books he could provide hints that Mathilde could work out.
 
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The3rdCorinthian said:
A Chaos cult also has no reason to look at us, and believe us to be more likely to trust them and be corrupted for whatever reason because we're wearing the coin.

Unless Ranalds keeping this a spectacularly poorly kept secret, I don't think they'd have any reason to treat us differently than normal.
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We would be poking around cults to see which ones are the daughters, sounds like the best choice a chaos cult we were investigating might have.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Except there's no possible reading of "they will recognise you as a person worthy of trust" that implies perceptions are being changed. When we wear the fifth face, they will simply notice that we are trusted by Ranald.
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That isn't what the description says. It doesn't say 'they will know Mathilde is trusted by Ranald'. It says ' will recognize you as being worthy of trust and faith.' That is mind control to alter their option of Mathilde, forcing them to believe she is worthy of trust or faith, whatever they would otherwise have thought, just as the Deceiver makes people believe her lies.
 
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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Except there's no possible reading of "they will recognise you as a person worthy of trust" that implies perceptions are being changed. When we wear the fifth face, they will simply notice that we are trusted by Ranald.
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Which they probably don't care about.

[New face of the Coin - The Father: Ranald's daughters, and Their followers, will recognize you as being worthy of trust and faith.]

This is the exact wording. The coin does not make them think "oh he's trusted by Ranald" it makes them trust us. And I'm reasonably certain that the actual followers don't know about the connection to Ranald.
 
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