Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
Yea I think the Too Many Cooks problems will rear it's head soon enough. There's three groups I want to recruit, because we know for certain they know things about waystones - the Lights, the Jades, and the Ward of Frost. I want to bring then all in over the next two turns, study a waystone ourself, and get to work. Maybe a House, but good relations with them doesn't mean we have to bring them onboard.

That's only 5 actions over two turns - room for other stuff like piloting, swords, and AV
 
Last edited:
So since there seems to be interest in Windherding with Horstman here's an idea for windherding:

As part of the library have a pillar of enduring Hysh cast a version of Burning Shadows on the entrance way that burns not flesh, but glamors and magical illusions. @Boney would this work an an anti-infiltration method? I wanted do do something with architecture because we really do not need more gewgaws for Mathilde to carry around.
 
I don't think 'only' is the right descriptor for spending six turns on recruitment. That's a sixth of the length of the entire quest to date.

Six turns is the maximum completionist with slowest rate of recruitment scenario. Three turns of recruitment seems a lot more likely whilst still allowing a lot of the most promising organisations to be recruited and clearing a bit of Mathilde's backlog.

Trained pilots are an extremely scarce military resource. There is no 'only' or 'just' to having pilots plural permanently transferred to Mathilde's command.

Wasn't thinking about permanently transferred (that seems more of a Boon type of thing) but borrowed as needed - at least whilst Mathilde is working on stuff that benefits dwarfs and K8P in particular (sort of like a company chauffeur can be a benefit in sufficiently fancy jobs).

Considering we are paying for the research facilities out of Mathilde's own pocket providing auxiliary staff seems like the least Belegar can do, considering he does have a stake in what's happening with the Waystone business.

Is Mathilde still drawing a salary from K8P (either for Waystone research or for being the Head Librarian)?
 
I'm struggling to see the mechanism by which shadows that act as acid instead burns away illusions. It doesn't seem very Ulgu to remove such concealment.
Don't Hysh and Azyr both have their own anti-illusion spells, no Ulgu required? Eyes of Truth, or better Starshine.
 
Last edited:
I am very much in a hurry and didn't even have time to check out the newest chapter, but I still wanted to throw an idea into the room.

What do y'all think of spending this turn getting to know all three magic Houses (and sending Max to Vaul) instead of choosing one blindly. An Action Plan: Informed Decision" instead of "Recruitment, Recruitment, Recruitment" if you will. We could also clandestinely try to investigate just one of the Hedgewise. Or ingratiate ourselves to Kurtis personally.
 
So since there seems to be interest in Windherding with Horstman here's an idea for windherding:

As part of the library have a pillar of enduring Hysh cast a version of Burning Shadows on the entrance way that burns not flesh, but glamors and magical illusions. @Boney would this work an an anti-infiltration method? I wanted do do something with architecture because we really do not need more gewgaws for Mathilde to carry around.

The spell does not work through a metaphorical association with burning that can be manipulated to apply 'burning' in a different way. It's called 'burning' but it actually physically dissolving what it's made to touch through completely non-metaphorical means, and even if it was altered in such a way to aim that effect at specific types of magic, it wouldn't actually do anything to it, because the spell has no physical component for it to act on.

Also 'please step through this highly experimental alteration of the very same spell that killed an army just over yonder' might put off some would-be visitors.

Wasn't thinking about permanently transferred (that seems more of a Boon type of thing) but borrowed as needed - at least whilst Mathilde is working on stuff that benefits dwarfs and K8P in particular (sort of like a company chauffeur can be a benefit in sufficiently fancy jobs).

Considering we are paying for the research facilities out of Mathilde's own pocket providing auxiliary staff seems like the least Belegar can do, considering he does have a stake in what's happening with the Waystone business.

A company chauffeur can go home at the end of the day. Mathilde will be spending a great deal of her time in the coming turns in Laurelorn, which is half a continent away from the homes of these pilots. The only way for a pilot to go home from there is to take the Gyrocarriage with them, and then you're right back to square one.

And salary is not the problem here, the problem is that a pilot that is wherever Mathilde is to be ready when she needs them is a pilot that can't fly a gyrocopter in defence of the Karak.

Is Mathilde still drawing a salary from K8P (either for Waystone research or for being the Head Librarian)?

No.
 
Last edited:
Modified my plan based on some thread preferences.

[] Plan: Slow and Steady Research
-[] MAX: Use kitting out his workshop as a pretext to get to know House Miriel and the local Cult of Vaul
-[] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm (insert ulgu/hysh enchantment here)
-[] JOHANN: Train with and study the freshly-attached golden arm
-[] Furnish the research spaces of the Waystone Project HQ (specify how much: 2000gc for Laurelorn-grade)
-[] Attempt to bring an organisation into the Waystone Project (The Jade Order)
--[] The Gambler: Attempt to bring the Jade Order into the Waystone Project
-[] Investigate how the Vitae reacts with Divine Magic
-[] EIC: Insert agents into Talabecland administration to start gathering their secrets
-[] Seek official recognition of Kron-Azril-Ungol as an affiliated library of the Colleges of Magic
-[] Write a paper: Observations on the Chaos Wastes in the western Great Steppes

Justifications: this has two waystone actions; Max integrating himself with House Miriel, and recruiting the Jades. That should keep the people who want waystones as a priority happy. Personally, I think we only need to dedicate two waystone actions a turn, with at least one recruitment attempt. This plan also has the much desired AV and Windherder actions. I don't actually know of any Hysh/Ulgu enchantments, so if someone knows of one that's been discussed previously, let me know and I'll add it in.

I compromised slightly on the EIC and Library actions; I'd much rather do the Ranald bounty and spy on Alric directly, but I understand people want to take the safer options first. That said, the EIC actions feels like trying to have our cake and eat it too. If we want information on what he's doing, just spy directly on him. I trust the Hochlander to see it done properly and safely. Also, would spying on the administration actually get us anything? Alric's working with the nobility, after all, and I don't know if "administration" with catch that.

As for recruiting, I think we should build a small core of experts—the grey lords, the runesmiths, at least one order, and one house, and then begin the project. Every time we hit a roadblock in our research where we can't advance any further, then we go out and recruit the faction most likely able to assist us. Trying to recruit everybody is going to result in a "too many chefs" situation (or maybe a "too many investors"), whereas if we keep it small and bring in specialised knowledge when and where we need it, that just feels like a more natural approach.

We've already achieved the impossible by getting a runelord and grey lord to agree to work together. We don't need to shoot for the moon and sacrifice all of our personal actions to give everyone a slice of the pie. Remember that once we've recruited people, we're going to have to help them get along—what is our plan if a Jade gets into an argument with a Priest of Isha? What happens if an Ice Witch and a Hedgewise don't get on? The more people we have, the more relationships we have to manage, and the more likely there will be some sort of personal conflict.

Quick and dirty draft for the next few turns:
Turn 36: Max/Vaul and Jades
Turn 37: Lights, Tindomiel
Turn 38: any Ward, any House, groundwork

Frankly, that's more recruitment than I think we actually need to do. We'd have ~eight factions recruited after 4 turns/2 years. That's more than enough to get started with. I don't think we need to bring in the Damsels, Ice Witches, Hedgewise until we know we need their expertise.

Start slowly, like an avalanche.
This is my favourite plan so far, I really don't like the incredible rush to recruit every magical tradition in the old world before the project ever starts. I think we got very lucky with Thorek and we still had to cause a political upset in the empire and a future upset in the runesmiths. Recruiting people is not going to be free, it is likely to come with political implications and it is likely to cost AP. If we hadn't already been writing it the paper for Thorek would have cost AP for example.

Fortunately however we do have two ways to offset those costs. Number one is the coin, which is why I think we should use it for every recruitment attempt, they're not just going to be binary succeed/fail checks, the degree of success is likely to reduce how much we have to pay/how much fallout the payment causes. The second way is of course succeeding with the project. People will be a lot more eager to get in on the project once we've proved we can make it work, especially if it looks like we'll independently be able to discover whatever they've already found out. (Grey Magister bluffing can help here)

So yeh I would much much rather take it slow steady and divinely empowered with the recruitment. Get a spread of knowledge from dwarves men and elves then get started and pull in new organizations as necessary rather than try and go all out right from the start.

That said While I'll vote for the above I'm still simping for my boy Hugo so I'd like to propose my own plan:

[] Plan: Slow, Steady And Divinely Empowered Wins The Race
-[] MAX: Use kitting out his workshop as a pretext to get to know House Miriel and the local Cult of Vaul
-[] JOHANN: Train with and study the freshly-attached golden arm
-[] WEB-MAT: Attempt to recruit someone to WEB-MAT - Hugo Bann
-[] Furnish the research spaces of the Waystone Project HQ (specify how much: 2000gc for Laurelorn-grade)
-[] Attempt to bring an organisation into the Waystone Project (The Jade Order)
--[] The Gambler: Attempt to bring the Jade Order into the Waystone Project
-[] Investigate how the Vitae reacts with Divine Magic
-[] EIC: Insert agents into Talabecland administration to start gathering their secrets
-[] Seek official recognition of Kron-Azril-Ungol as an affiliated library of the Colleges of Magic
-[] SERENITY: Windsoak Mushrooms Book (1/2)
 
Last edited:
I'm not seeing the Hedgewise as being likely to be enormously useful, and they're also officially a proscribed set of organisations.

The two most valuable institutions to recruit seem likely to be the Ice Witches and the Damsels. Both are ancient stable state backed magical traditions that have had the freedom, time, resources, and motivation to investigate the Waystone network and collect knowledge about it. The Damsels also have divine backing which could potentially give them access to information in a way that arcane traditions may not.

The challenge does come with persuading them to get on board, but that's where the Coin may come in.
 
Actually, on second thoughts, I'm... wary of using the coin on the Damsels. Ranald is outlawed in Bretonnia, after all.

It probably won't be a problem, but they are also the people most likely to notice his meddling.
 
The spell does not work through a metaphorical association with burning that can be manipulated to apply 'burning' in a different way. It's called 'burning' but it actually physically dissolving what it's made to touch through completely non-metaphorical means, and even if it was altered in such a way to aim that effect at specific types of magic, it wouldn't actually do anything to it, because the spell has no physical component for it to act on.

Also 'please step through this highly experimental alteration of the very same spell that killed an army just over yonder' might put off some would-be visitors.
It sounds like it'd probably be more effective to just use a standing hysh enchantment to disperse illusions and fry Chaos and so on in the first place?

I may be missing something about how Warhammer magic works, but the Burning Shadows step in the process seems like an unnecessary middleman.
 
It sounds like it'd probably be more effective to just use a standing hysh enchantment to disperse illusions and fry Chaos and so on in the first place?

I may be missing something about how Warhammer magic works, but the Burning Shadows step in the process seems like an unnecessary middleman.

The Hysh spell Eyes of Truth is somewhat related, but it allows the person it's cast on to see through illusion rather than outright dispelling them, and it lasts less than a minute per casting so it would take a horrendous amount of grunt for it to be applied to every single visitor to the library. And anything cast by an enchantment is always easier to counter than something cast by a magic-user, so anyone with enough magical know-how to magically disguise themselves will probably also be able to finagle an enchantment to get through a checkpoint.
 
Ok, forget the permanent enchantment sweeping everyone, I wonder if we could pull off something that periodically uses Eyes of Truth to check for illusions while using ulgu to remain hidden so no-one notices what's up. It may be easy to counter but that's only if you know you need to counter it.
 
@Nerdasaurus Rex If you want to do a Windherded Ulgu/Hysh enchantment, my suggestion would be something like an item of Shadowsteed/Clarity, i.e. "night riding made easy." Shadowsteed we know and love, and Clarity is a RS Hysh spell that removes mental penalties -- I don't know exactly what constitutes a mental penalty, but I imagine stuff like "you've been drinking" or "you've been up all night" count, and so it's an item we could give to the Hochlander or someone else that would ensure that if they need to ride somewhere in a hurry, they will be at their best while doing so (like if you need to ride from dusk till dawn without sleep). Both spells are as simple as can be while still being distinctly Hysh and Ulgu spells, which seems reasonable for our first outing. Is something like this reasonable, @Boney?

(This post brought to you by waking up at 4:45 AM due to nightmares. At least I'm not going to miss the vote opening, so... yay?)
 
Poor Francesco. I just picture it now: Him in his office, marginally more relaxed because Mathilde's away and busy at Laurelorn, only to see Gretel show up at his door smiling serenely and draped in Shyish, asking whether the silk's ready.
...and now I'm shipping the two, because you just put the image of Gretel showing up smiling and wearing nothing but Shyish asking whether the silk bedsheets are ready in my head.
 
If we want anti-illusion (and shapeshifting), I'd turn to the dwarves. It seems like the kind of thing their warding runes would be particularly good at, just draining the magic away (and into the hood Waystone?)
 
@Nerdasaurus Rex If you want to do a Windherded Ulgu/Hysh enchantment, my suggestion would be something like an item of Shadowsteed/Clarity, i.e. "night riding made easy." Shadowsteed we know and love, and Clarity is a RS Hysh spell that removes mental penalties -- I don't know exactly what constitutes a mental penalty, but I imagine stuff like "you've been drinking" or "you've been up all night" count, and so it's an item we could give to the Hochlander or someone else that would ensure that if they need to ride somewhere in a hurry, they will be at their best while doing so (like if you need to ride from dusk till dawn without sleep). Both spells are as simple as can be while still being distinctly Hysh and Ulgu spells, which seems reasonable for our first outing. Is something like this reasonable, @Boney?

(This post brought to you by waking up at 4:45 AM due to nightmares. At least I'm not going to miss the vote opening, so... yay?)

Saddle of the Tireless Rider sounds like a cool item. If Boney okay's it, I'm down for it.
 
I really don't like the incredible rush to recruit every magical tradition in the old world before the project ever starts. I think we got very lucky with Thorek and we still had to cause a political upset in the empire and a future upset in the runesmiths. Recruiting people is not going to be free, it is likely to come with political implications and it is likely to cost AP. If we hadn't already been writing it the paper for Thorek would have cost AP for example.
If we want to recruit these organisations at aome point, we're going to have to pay to get them on board, that's not going to change. I'll note that so far no price has actually cost Mathilde anything, even in AP.

People will be a lot more eager to get in on the project once we've proved we can make it work, especially if it looks like we'll independently be able to discover whatever they've already found out. (Grey Magister bluffing can help here)
How do you propose that we demonstrate our progress? The only thing I can think of that would be suitable to show to outside organisations is repairing a Waystone, at which point recruiting is probably over.

The main way I can see to increase interest is to tout who else we've already got on board. We're already pretty strong there, with both the elves and the dwarves.
 
Ok, forget the permanent enchantment sweeping everyone, I wonder if we could pull off something that periodically uses Eyes of Truth to check for illusions while using ulgu to remain hidden so no-one notices what's up. It may be easy to counter but that's only if you know you need to counter it.

I'm very unclear on what use case you're thinking about here, mostly because I've got no idea what illusion this is supposed to be protecting against. What kind of rapscallion are we imagining here, and what's stopping them from just walking in undisguised and saying 'hi, I'm Bob, I want to visit the library because I like books'?

@Nerdasaurus Rex If you want to do a Windherded Ulgu/Hysh enchantment, my suggestion would be something like an item of Shadowsteed/Clarity, i.e. "night riding made easy." Shadowsteed we know and love, and Clarity is a RS Hysh spell that removes mental penalties -- I don't know exactly what constitutes a mental penalty, but I imagine stuff like "you've been drinking" or "you've been up all night" count, and so it's an item we could give to the Hochlander or someone else that would ensure that if they need to ride somewhere in a hurry, they will be at their best while doing so (like if you need to ride from dusk till dawn without sleep). Both spells are as simple as can be while still being distinctly Hysh and Ulgu spells, which seems reasonable for our first outing. Is something like this reasonable, @Boney?

Yes, but with the usual cautions about putting spells in Wizard brainmeats.
 
Last edited:
Trained pilots are an extremely scarce military resource. There is no 'only' or 'just' to having pilots plural permanently transferred to Mathilde's command.
Now now, Mathilde does have some avenues available that most lords don't have.

Nothing stops us from going up to a wrecked gyrocopter, pulling out the broken pilot and fixing them up with some hard work and a bit of elbow grease. Yes, it probably won't run as well as if we got a new pilot straight from the Karaks, and it'll definitely need more care and maintenance, but I think we could pull it off no problem. We have our trusty Dawi Repair Manual, after all.

Silly Dawi, so dedicated to their pursuit of perfection that they're willing to throw out perfectly good spare parts after just a single crash…
 
Okay, since I can't actually think of a good windherd enchantment this turn, and voting opens in 10 mins, I'm going to swap it for light recruitment instead.

I know I was saying not to rush recruitment earlier, but it is the best option for Egrimm this turn if we have nothing to windherd. I might switch back to "Slow and Steady Research" if a good enchantment is proposed, however.

[] Plan: Slow and Steady Research with Double Recruitment
-[] MAX: Use kitting out his workshop as a pretext to get to know House Miriel and the local Cult of Vaul
-[] EGRIMM: Attempt to bring the Light Order into the Waystone Project
-[] JOHANN: Train with and study the freshly-attached golden arm
-[] Furnish the research spaces of the Waystone Project HQ (specify how much: 2000gc for Laurelorn-grade)
-[] Attempt to bring an organisation into the Waystone Project (The Jade Order)
--[] The Gambler: Attempt to bring the Jade Order into the Waystone Project
-[] Investigate how the Vitae reacts with Divine Magic
-[] EIC: Insert agents into Talabecland administration to start gathering their secrets
-[] Seek official recognition of Kron-Azril-Ungol as an affiliated library of the Colleges of Magic
-[] Write a paper: Observations on the Chaos Wastes in the western Great Steppes
 
If we want to recruit these organisations at aome point, we're going to have to pay to get them on board, that's not going to change. I'll note that so far no price has actually cost Mathilde anything, even in AP.


How do you propose that we demonstrate our progress? The only thing I can think of that would be suitable to show to outside organisations is repairing a Waystone, at which point recruiting is probably over.

The main way I can see to increase interest is to tout who else we've already got on board. We're already pretty strong there, with both the elves and the dwarves.
So far it hasn't cost us anyhting because we got lucky. If we hadn't already been writing the paper then that would have cost us an AP. I don't think we can completely write off the effects of the turmoil reshaping the runesmith guild will cause or potential issues from forcing the dwarves to give up access to their hold just because they haven't bitten us in the ass yet.

The way to show we are making progress is to make progress, if for example we develop a method of taping the waystones all of a sudden the Jades are far more incentivized to join the project because it looks an awful lot like we're figuring out stuff they know independently so better to get in and benefit from others knowledge than wait and lode their leverage entirely as we figure out their secrets without them. Take that idea and apply it to any other group you think has useful info, if we start displaying abilities they have themselves they'll want to join. And if we can repair a waystone or build a tributary waystone obviously that'll be a very big sign to everyone.

I'm not sure what you mean by "recruiting will be over" there is no reason for recruiting to ever be over unless the waystone project is completely disbanded. There is literally nothing stopping us from recruiting another group at any point we feel they contribute more than they cost to bring in.

Okay, since I can't actually think of a good windherd enchantment this turn, and voting opens in 10 mins, I'm going to swap it for light recruitment instead.

I know I was saying not to rush recruitment earlier, but it is the best option for Egrimm this turn if we have nothing to windherd. I might switch back to "Slow and Steady Research" if a good enchantment is proposed, however.

[] Plan: Slow and Steady Research with Double Recruitment
-[] MAX: Use kitting out his workshop as a pretext to get to know House Miriel and the local Cult of Vaul
-[] EGRIMM: Attempt to bring the Light Order into the Waystone Project
-[] JOHANN: Train with and study the freshly-attached golden arm
-[] Furnish the research spaces of the Waystone Project HQ (specify how much: 2000gc for Laurelorn-grade)
-[] Attempt to bring an organisation into the Waystone Project (The Jade Order)
--[] The Gambler: Attempt to bring the Jade Order into the Waystone Project
-[] Investigate how the Vitae reacts with Divine Magic
-[] EIC: Insert agents into Talabecland administration to start gathering their secrets
-[] Seek official recognition of Kron-Azril-Ungol as an affiliated library of the Colleges of Magic
-[] Write a paper: Observations on the Chaos Wastes in the western Great Steppes
One spell combo I was thinking of you could use as an enchantment (or keep as a spell combo) was Bewilder + Dazzling lights. Not super inspirational but it's a good basic thing to start with that should have complimentary effects.
 
Okay, since I can't actually think of a good windherd enchantment this turn, and voting opens in 10 mins, I'm going to swap it for light recruitment instead.

Could we make a windherding enchantment using Ill-Bane and Shadowsteed for a Horse of hospice to alleviate poisons and disease around it? It is quite possible that we might end up facing beastmen if we are set to continue messing with forest waystones.
 
Voting is open
Back
Top