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They insist on killing those beasts with axes one on one with no support, mounts, or complex military tactics. I cannot stress how stupid it is to try to kill a beast of that level of ferocity with a weapon that requires you to get that close to the lion. If they were such a vital danger to the settlements, they would harry them with arrows and spears and fight in regiments and lead them to traps, maybe use magic to hold them down so they can be taken down.

EDIT: I should specify, the White Lions don't use hand axes with shields either. They use two handed greataxes. Korhil's (current Captain of the Guard) weapons are even dumber, as he dual wields two gigantic double sided axes that are almost halberd length.

EDIT 2: My bad, only one of those gigantic axes is double sided. The other has a flat edge on one side and an axe head on the other. He holds them close to the head too, not that he'd have any decent leverage dual wielding while holding axes close to the bottom of the shaft when they're that big.
Kohril is meant to be an elven hercules expy, so of course he kills the lion bare handed,and has ridiculous strength.
One of the end times regiments: Here
Has a very grail knight feel to it, which i think is pretty cool.
If extended the whole thing to all the white lions, i think it would make more sense.

White lions become blessed warriors with super strength, senses and forest attunements.
 
I could be wrong, but I think he got a decent up-swing in viewership when he started doing the Paradox games.

(That's certainly how I started following him)
I found him via his serie about the siege of Gondor:)

Apply this logic further and you see how it functions - Chaos are evil, so infinite.
Yeah, about that. How can the Norscan be so numerous? They live in an inhospitable land, constantly fight together and don't have big settlements. There's no way you can make entire armies of them.

On the other hand, it's possible most of the Chaos troops come from the steps, being pseudo-mongols.
 
- King Ælla of Northumbria, 866
One of the big differences between Norsca and Norway is that the latter has farms. As described, Norsca is more like Greenland or Iceland in hospitability and/or fertility (well lack thereof). Kislev is Russia-cold, Norsca is even further north compared to that.

The easy logical conclusion is that Norsca doesn't operate under logic. At least they have chaos magic to explain that.
 
They insist on killing those beasts with axes one on one with no support, mounts, or complex military tactics. I cannot stress how stupid it is to try to kill a beast of that level of ferocity with a weapon that requires you to get that close to the lion. If they were such a vital danger to the settlements, they would harry them with arrows and spears and fight in regiments and lead them to traps, maybe use magic to hold them down so they can be taken down.

EDIT: I should specify, the White Lions don't use hand axes with shields either. They use two handed greataxes. Korhil's (current Captain of the Guard) weapons are even dumber, as he dual wields two gigantic double sided axes that are almost halberd length.

But that wouldn't be so impressive. Killing an overly large lion would be easy with traps and lots of troops but a lot harder for a single elf with an overly large axe.
 
One of the big differences between Norsca and Norway is that the latter has farms. As described, Norsca is more like Greenland or Iceland in hospitability and/or fertility (well lack thereof). Kislev is Russia-cold, Norsca is even further north compared to that.
There's possibly some WH equivalent of the Gulf Stream.
 
One of the big differences between Norsca and Norway is that the latter has farms. As described, Norsca is more like Greenland or Iceland in hospitability and/or fertility (well lack thereof). Kislev is Russia-cold, Norsca is even further north compared to that.

The easy logical conclusion is that Norsca doesn't operate under logic. At least they have chaos magic to explain that.

Iron-age people thrived in Greenland and Iceland even without Chaos bullshit to help them. Sure, Norsca won't have a super high population density with only a few brief months where farming is possible and surviving the rest of the year on hunting and fishing, but it doesn't need a super high population density to spit out entire armies, it's bigger than the Empire and riddled with rivers and fjords.
 
Yeah, about that. How can the Norscan be so numerous? They live in an inhospitable land, constantly fight together and don't have big settlements. There's no way you can make entire armies of them.
- King Ælla of Northumbria, 866
:D

The laws of King Ine of Wessex a century earlier include a section on military response, which I shall freely paraphrase in translation:
A group of up to 7 enemies under arms are "thieves" (þeofas) and they should be dealt with by the local militia and sherriff forming a posse
Between 7 and 35 enemies under arms are "bandits" or "raiders" (hloo) and they should be dealt with by the regional lord calling up his retinue
Over 35 enemies under arms are "an army" (heer/here) and that's important enough for the King to muster the Wessex army.

On the one hand I can absolutely respect the principle that fifty armed men are a problem you pass up the chain of command real fast, on the other hand one wonders if something might have been lost in translation/transmission of Old English complaints about armies of Northmen, and GeeDubs' sense of scale.

One of the big differences between Norsca and Norway is that the latter has farms. As described, Norsca is more like Greenland or Iceland in hospitability and/or fertility (well lack thereof). Kislev is Russia-cold, Norsca is even further north compared to that.
On the other hand, Norsca appears to be of a latitude with southern Norway in several of the maps, because of the massive Northern Waste that Games Workshop jammed in at the top, bumping the rest of the map southwards relative to Earth's corresponding regions and empty Arctic. The IRL Equator runs well out to sea south of India and the western handle of Africa. But draw an approximate Equator through the middle of that linked map, and it runs right through Ind and Araby. GeeDubs! :thonk:
 
Iron-age people thrived in Greenland and Iceland even without Chaos bullshit to help them. Sure, Norsca won't have a super high population density with only a few brief months where farming is possible and surviving the rest of the year on hunting and fishing, but it doesn't need a super high population density to spit out entire armies, it's bigger than the Empire and riddled with rivers and fjords.
Huh. Never really noticed that it's bigger than the Empire. What an unexpectedly basic thing to learn following this thread.
 
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One of the big differences between Norsca and Norway is that the latter has farms. As described, Norsca is more like Greenland or Iceland in hospitability and/or fertility (well lack thereof). Kislev is Russia-cold, Norsca is even further north compared to that.
Remember the empire-centric maps usually don't have north as up because it fits onto a rectangular page better if you rotate it, norsca actually points southward slightly to an end result that significant parts of norsca are not, in fact, more north than kislev, they are instead exactly as north as kislev.
 
I'm almost done with Dogs of War. It's unbelievable how informative this book is while being so goddamn dumb. 5th Edition was a really different time. Reading about such inspiring personages as Leonardo de Miragliano, Gossipa Lotta, Monna Lissa, Marco Colombo, Giovanni Marmalodi, and Long Drong Slayer descendant of "Drong the Hard" sure taught me that. One of the coasts in Tilea is called Cappo Cinno!

Some of this is entertaining. Some is cringeworthy. What I am getting is a whole lot of information that kinda checks out with what we've been given in DL, albeit the timelines don't exactly add up which is perfectly understandable. Of all the Dogs of War we could have gotten, Asarnil was by far the best for coherency of backstory. I don't think I could have withstood the cringe of reading about "Al Muktar's Desert Dogs".

The good thing is that I have an updating mental map of the general societal development of the Warhammer world. Just as a sneak peak of what part of it looks like, here's a non complete list of former Elf/Dwarf settlements:

Tylos was never occupied by Elves, but Dwarfs lived in the undercity. They probably died with Tylos.

Tobaro and Remas were Elven port cities watching over the west and east of the Tilean sea, and Luccini/Sartosa were Elven settlements/outposts built on the southern tip of eastern Tilea, likely to watch over the Black Gulf/trade with Barak Varr. Needless to say, all these cities would grow into human settlements, and Tobaro even seems to have a longstanding connection with the Dwarfs, perhaps inherited from Tylos or the Dwarfs already lived there before the War of Vengeance in a joint Elf/Dwarf settlement.

Monte Castello was an Elven fortress/outporst built on the easternmost borders of Tilea to watch over the Lagoon of Tears and the area leading from it to the Black Gulf. It is currently occupied by Luccini for the same purpose.

The Sorceror's Islands archipelago north of Araby was under the control of the High Elves and likely had settlements there. They also had control over Fyrus at some point before being kicked out of Araby. I don't know whether they have any connection to the Port Cities of Copher and Lashiek.

Ekrund in the Dragonback mountains west of the Badlands is very close to the sea, and might have had a port that watched over the entrance to the Black Gulf/had trade with Barak Varr instead of moving overland in the Badlands. It would explain the Dragonback Greenskins being good pirates, since they might have inherited Dwarf ports/shipyards.

As we know, Altdorf, Talabheim and Marienburg all used to be Elven cities (although I think Altdorf was a tower and not a full city? IDK). Nuln was a joint Elf/Hill Dwarf settlement that was later built on by a Tilean expedition that arrived from the River of Echoes and was later turned Imperial under Sigmar's control. Talabheim became the city of the Talutens, Altdorf the city of Sigmar, and Marienburg became Jutonsryk before it became part of the Empire under Sigismund the Conqueror.

The Wissenland towns of Wusterburg and Meissen were built over Hill Dwarf settlements according to Boney.

Heirs of Sigmar says that the Averland town of Heideck has Dwarf ruins that are quite popular for treasure seekers, and considering it's part of the Old Dwarf Road, I'm willing to bet the Dwarfs did have a town there as a stopping point.

Khazad Ghumzul in the Middle Mountains of course, and there was quite possibly an inner mountain settlement in the Mountain where Middenheim was built on.

Kislev City in Kislev was built on Elven ruins, this is known.

Castle L'Anguille was Tor Alessi, one of the most properous Elven cities of the time. Makes sense considering it's location. If I were to take a guess at other Bretonnian castles being built on Elf ruins, I would guess Mousillon, Bordelaux and Brionne, maybe Aquitaine too.

Aside from Karak Zorn (lost) and the Fortress of Dawn (outpost), there are no Elf/Dwarf settlements in the Southlands. Aside from the Citadel of Dusk, which is an elf outpost, there are no elf/dwarf settlements in Lustria. A note that both outposts are manned I just wanted to note them.

Kor Immamor in Laurelorn is destroyed, but Tor Lithanel is still there. Athel Loren is still there so it's not a former settlement. Now bear with me, because I'm going to go on a Lightning round of lost Dwarf Holds. Get ready:

Silver Pinnacle (outpost) was lost to Neferata. Karak Ungor (now Red Eye Mountain) was lost to Red Eye Night Goblins. Karak Varn (now Cragmere) was lost to flooding, Skaven and Greenskins. Ekrund (Now Mt. Bloodhorn) has already been mentioned, the tribe that occupies them are unknown but likely pirates. Karak Eight Peaks has been reclaimed. Karak Izril (now Azgal) was taken over by greenskins who were driven out by a Dragon, then slayed by Skalf Dragonslayer who built a temporary settlement while being besieged by Night Goblins and eventually abandoned the settlement to the Night Goblins. Karak Drazh (now Black Crag) was taken over by Red Fang Greenskins, mostly Orcs. Iron Rock was a partially created series of mines made by Dwarves that were overrun by Greenskins and currently occupied by Ironclaw Orcs. Mt. Gunbad was taken over by Bloody Spears Night Goblins, who started the Silver Wars and then took over Mt. Silverspear. The outposts running along the Silver Road and Mad Dog Pass were taken down.

The Chaos Dwarfs of Uzkulak fell to Hashut and spread their settlements, creating Mingol Zharr-Nagrund, Black Fortress and Tower of Gorgoth across the Darklands. Norse Dwarfs of Kraka Drakk, Karak Ravnvake etc. fell to Norscans after Great War against Chaos and their port in the Black Blood River close to Black Blood Pass is occupied by the Baersonling (Norscan tribe) town of Sjortraken (or something like that). The Dwarfs of Karak Vrag, Karak Krakaten and Karak Azorn in the Mountains of Mourn were overwhelmed by Ogres migrating to take control over the mountains for their Kingdoms. Karak Vlag was dragged back to the physical realm, and Karag Dum are isolationist and left alone after seeing the lengths they've gone to. Karak Dron (now Thunder Mountain) was abandoned after an eruption and a Troll migration that started the "Troll Wars", and are currently occupied by sickly Dragon Ogres.
 
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As we know, Altdorf, Talabheim and Marienburg all used to be Elven cities (although I think Altdorf was a tower and not a full city? IDK). Nuln was a joint Elf/Hill Dwarf settlement that was later built on by a Tilean expedition that arrived from the River of Echoes and was later turned Imperial under Sigmar's control. Talabheim became the city of the Talutens, Altdorf the city of Sigmar, and Marienburg became Jutonsryk before it became part of the Empire under Sigismund the Conqueror.
Wow, I didn't know that. If Caledor II had be less stupid and the War of the Beard had not occurred, the world would be so different. I wonder how the Asur would have reacted if several tribes worth of « barbarians » had try to settle in their land. Probably crush them and send them back where they came.

Does someone know about a fanfic/timeline/whatever where the war of the beard didn't happen?
 
On the other hand, Norsca appears to be of a latitude with southern Norway in several of the maps, because of the massive Northern Waste that Games Workshop jammed in at the top, bumping the rest of the map southwards relative to Earth's corresponding regions and empty Arctic. The IRL Equator runs well out to sea south of India and the western handle of Africa. But draw an approximate Equator through the middle of that linked map, and it runs right through Ind and Araby. GeeDubs! :thonk:
The Northern Wastes aren't bound by conventional geography, and go on infinitely. It's even harder to represent true latitude on a map than a normal globe.
 
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Alright, I've finished Dogs of War. A few notes:
[One roll for Dogs of War: 2. Braganza's Besiegers.]
"With Dwarven arms, Tilean cunning, Bretonnian courage and the Empire's discipline, the Undumgi could become the equal of the Leopard Company.
Aside from Asarnil, these are the Units mentioned in the story updates of Divided Loyalty that I can remember. I assume that Francesco is talking about Leopold's Leopard Company.

Assuming Boney hasn't changed their backstory too much, I assume this means that Borgio the Besieger and Lorenzo Lupo exist and are prominent.

To clarify, Borgio the Besieger is a brutal and skilled Mercenary General who became the Prince of Miragliano and gave Braganza's Besiegers their reputation, hence the title "the Besieger". He's not actually their company leader that's someone else, but they worked for him for a while. They became a Regiment of Renown after he was assassinated as they began selling their services afterwards. That doesn't necessarily mean the same thing happened in DL, as they might have started selling their services while Borgio was still alive. I don't see why not.

Speaking of Borgio, he's married to Dolcaletta, the older sister of the Princess of Pavona Lucrezzia Belladonna. Belladonna is actually one of the more... interesting characters in the book. She constantly marries and assassinates men that she uses as scapegoats for her political moves and is an expert poisoner and wizard.

Lorenzo Lupo is the canonical Prince of Luccini, who had a whole succession fight with Leopold the head of the Leopard Company that served as the temple guard to the patron gods of Luccini, the founders Lucan and Luccina. Both claim descent from these founders, and Lorenzo eventually offers them money to concede the claims and leave his city. They leave and become prosperous mercenaries, Lorenzo becomes Prince of Luccini and enforces his rule.

I also think it's likely that the current DL ruler of Sartosa is "The Pirate Princess of Sartosa". No really that's all she's called. Never once is her name mentioned despite being talked about several times.
 
One of the big differences between Norsca and Norway is that the latter has farms. As described, Norsca is more like Greenland or Iceland in hospitability and/or fertility (well lack thereof). Kislev is Russia-cold, Norsca is even further north compared to that.

The easy logical conclusion is that Norsca doesn't operate under logic. At least they have chaos magic to explain that.
Actually, Tome of Corruption stated the opposite about Norscan agriculture. While the amount of farmable land is somewhat scarce because Norsca is roughly 80% mountains by area, what arable land does exist is in fact incredibly fertile, because the rivers carrying snowmelt from said mountains carry a lot of nutrients into the soil:

"It may seem the land of the Norsemen is a bleak place with little to offer, but the mountains are rich with veins of silver and iron. In addition, where farmland does exist, it is always fertile, enriched by the minerals carried down from the mountains by the snowmelt. Norsemen are skilled fishermen, and whalers brave the tempestuous seas to harvest the greatest bounties of the ocean. Ivory, iron, fine woods, and other materials are readily available for the taking." ToC, pg. 142
 
Chaos, wanting everything for themselves (including clubbing other Chaos Gods and taking their stuff) invade everyone every now and then... Using Chaos corrupted Civilizations as the muscle.

Basically, Chaos is really bad at being, well you know, Chaos.
 
Mathilde met two examples of (relatively) stable Chaos civilisations during the Karag Dum expedition. The Dolgans inhabiting the area they call the "Tea Road" are well used to traders moving through the Road of Skulls so they subject them to tithes and tolls and let them move on, so more people can decide to come over. Sure the Dolgan were probably more amenable to the Expedition because they thought we were Norscans, but they seem to do this relatively often anyways.

The second were the Baersonlings. It's explicitly stated that they trade as much as they raid, they live next to a bountiful area of life where volcanic soil meets ice and creates a bountiful sea habitation and allows for farming and trading, and while their price is extortionate, they were true to their word and let us pass through rite of combat. Kind of important since they need to be able to trade with other polities, and nobody would trust them if they never kept to their word.

As Boney said before:
Norscans are common sights at every northern port. Marienburg's fortunes were built on a foundation of Norscan fur and amber. The Gospodar were Chaos-worshipping steppe nomads before they converted to the Ancient Widow and founded Kislev, and they currently have Kurgans in their military.
Despite being called "Chaos", there is a certain level of Order to these factions. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to sustain themselves.
 
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They are like lay worshippers to my eye. They do have some belief in Chaos and do some stuff for them but it is not a central tenent of their society.

If we had a couple spare decades we might go there and settle down to turn society against the chaos via religious uprisings, civil wars and like. Go further north and it becomes impossible to do that as society wanes and chaos acts more and more in its place.
 
They are like lay worshippers to my eye. They do have some belief in Chaos and do some stuff for them but it is not a central tenent of their society.

If we had a couple spare decades we might go there and settle down to turn society against the chaos via religious uprisings, civil wars and like. Go further north and it becomes impossible to do that as society wanes and chaos acts more and more in its place.

I mean sure you can call them lay worshipers, but what the empire would call them if they were within its borders is cultists. The fact that you can have as much contact with chaos as the Iron Wolves do and have a functioning society says some interesting things about how far is too far in terms of worship of Chaos. Of course in the Empire worship of chaos is transgression and cults there to not have the socially constructed safety valves to get rid of the zealots but still, I cannot help but wonder, if there a cult of mostly sane Chaos worshipers somewhere in the Empire? You know, they keep their head down and don't make a fuss, prey to Khorne when they need to smash some heads because the local beastmen are acting out.
 
I mean sure you can call them lay worshipers, but what the empire would call them if they were within its borders is cultists. The fact that you can have as much contact with chaos as the Iron Wolves do and have a functioning society says some interesting things about how far is too far in terms of worship of Chaos. Of course in the Empire worship of chaos is transgression and cults there to not have the socially constructed safety valves to get rid of the zealots but still, I cannot help but wonder, if there a cult of mostly sane Chaos worshipers somewhere in the Empire? You know, they keep their head down and don't make a fuss, prey to Khorne when they need to smash some heads because the local beastmen are acting out.
The issue with cults in the Empire isn't just that they lack safety valves to get rid of zealots, it's that secret worship of a proscribed faith is going to actively select for zealotry because anyone with a more measured approach is going to be kind of reluctant to risk the whole "fire and sword" bit.
 
I mean sure you can call them lay worshipers, but what the empire would call them if they were within its borders is cultists. The fact that you can have as much contact with chaos as the Iron Wolves do and have a functioning society says some interesting things about how far is too far in terms of worship of Chaos. Of course in the Empire worship of chaos is transgression and cults there to not have the socially constructed safety valves to get rid of the zealots but still, I cannot help but wonder, if there a cult of mostly sane Chaos worshipers somewhere in the Empire? You know, they keep their head down and don't make a fuss, prey to Khorne when they need to smash some heads because the local beastmen are acting out.
There are Empire soldiers who worship Khorne and pray to him by spilling the blood of the Empire's enemies. He doesn't care that they kill other Khornates sometimes. It just so happens that when the time is right they might very well attack allies in a berserk rage. In canon a portion of the Nuln military was Khornate.

Of course, if the Blood God calls and tells them to attack the Empire, they'll probably do it. The Empire isn't going to be looking at them positively when they say it's just a part of being dedicated to Khorne.
 
I cannot help but wonder, if there a cult of mostly sane Chaos worshipers somewhere in the Empire? You know, they keep their head down and don't make a fuss, prey to Khorne when they need to smash some heads because the local beastmen are acting out.
I mean, the problem with theorizing about sane Chaos cultists in the Empire/Old World is that you run into the simple question; why would a sane, non-desperate person worship a Chaos God, when the socially approved ones cover the same domains and don't bring the threat of mutation, Spawnhood or discovery and subsequent burning at the stake? If, like in your example, there's a band of warriors who feel the need to pray before a battle against Beastmen, they could just as well pray to Sigmar, Ulric, Myrmidia or Taal, perhaps even Verena, since she's a god of justice and simple logistics make it very difficult to be the aggressor against Beastmen in any capacity.

The closest thing that comes to mind in the vein of what you're talking about is the Brotherhood of the Axe, who are a Khornate cult that has infiltrated and entirely subverted an Ulrican knightly order. Only, they chose an intelligent course of action, and refused Archaon's command to cast off their disguise and start wreaking havoc inside the walls at the siege of Middenheim (during the original Storm of Chaos), instead choosing to fight against him so as not to blow their cover. But even they don't have a long-term goal of just hanging around, their plan is to use their increased influence and reputation in the Cult of Ulric alongside false-flag ops to trigger a holy war between all Ulricans and Sigmarites in the Empire.

Being a Chaos cultist, whatever your methods, is utterly antithetical to notions like 'keeping your head down' and 'not making a fuss'.
 
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