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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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...this whole underground ocean thing. Is it at sea level? Is the whole continent like perched up on columns like a colossal water strider? Idk why they didn't just give Naggaroth a northwest passage. Seems like there is a lot of cool mythos that could have been spun out of the search for it, pulling from the real one, and the sin against physics that is an ocean-sized cavern that you can sail into and out of wouldn't be needed.

But since it's there, I'm going to headcannon giant stalactite fishing cities, aglow with eldritch fire, by which the sailors in that gloomy bleakness navigate as if they were stars.

And the less said about the giant water-predators that retreated here from the dragons three ages ago, the better.
 
Glau said:
...this whole underground ocean thing. Is it at sea level? Is the whole continent like perched up on columns like a colossal water strider? Idk why they didn't just give Naggaroth a northwest passage. Seems like there is a lot of cool mythos that could have been spun out of the search for it, pulling from the real one, and the sin against physics that is an ocean-sized cavern that you can sail into and out of wouldn't be needed.

But since it's there, I'm going to headcannon giant stalactite fishing cities, aglow with eldritch fire, by which the sailors in that gloomy bleakness navigate as if they were stars.

And the less said about the giant water-predators that retreated here from the dragons three ages ago, the better.
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You're actually not far off here. Let me try to give you a picture of how it's described in page 13 of Dark Elves 8th Edition Army Book.

The description of the "Underworld Sea" basically says that for hundreds of years Naggaroth were confined to the eastern seas, until they found a vast underground cavern system linking the Sea of Chaos (their east coast) to Naggaroth's west coast. It is described as a labrynthine maze of tunnels and dark caves, and that even the well known routes are dangerous due to frequent cave-ins and flash floods. It's also mentioned that there are a number of incredibly dangerous predatory creatures in there that are far more accustomed to the darkness than the Dark Elves.

It should be mentioned that the book implies that the caverns were part of an ancient underground civilisation that has been long lost. The Dark Elves have only uncovered a small fraction of it and are still uncovering new parts of it every decade. The most prominent explorers of the caverns are the "Shades", Druchii exiles who wander the mountains instead of staying in settlements.
Godwinson said:
Here I was thinking it was obviously a gromril/gold alloy...
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I suppose that's possible? The thing is, the Lizardmen don't seem to use Gromril. They make their tablets out of gold specifically to resist decay and wear, and they make their weapons out of a very tough material called "Obsinite", which is a black stone like material apparently tougher than steel. There are hints all over the books that Gromril is a "Star Metal" that comes into the world at the same time as meteorites strike the earth, and Warpstone is often found close to Gromril for some reason. While meteor showers seem to be common in the east, Lustria don't seem to get a lot of those meteors for some reason. I would imagine that would be mentioned in the Lizardmen books, but the Lizardmen never have to deal with meteorites (that they haven't summoned themselves I mean).
 
I wonder if once upon a time, morreslieb was made of gromril, and with the explosion of the gates soaked most of it up before it could fall back to the planet. Thus creating a thick layer of warpstone over the metal of the moon, except when bits are blown or ripped off and fall as meteors.
 
Glau said:
I wonder if once upon a time, morreslieb was made of gromril, and with the explosion of the gates soaked most of it up before it could fall back to the planet. Thus creating a thick layer of warpstone over the metal of the moon, except when bits are blown or ripped off and fall as meteors.
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IIRC, Morreslieb didn't exist before the gates exploded. It's a huge warpstone chunk that got hurled up when the gates broke.
 
BurnNote said:
IIRC, Morreslieb didn't exist before the gates exploded. It's a huge warpstone chunk that got hurled up when the gates broke.
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Speaking of, there's actually a Beastmen character that really took me off guard related to Morrisleb. One day, this guy, his name's Moonclaw, crashes into the world of Warhammer clinging to a meteorite from Morrisleb that might or might not be a spaceship. Every since he's been wandering the lands of the Warhammer World and goes crazy whenever Morrisleb is full, calling down meteors from the Green Moon.

I have no idea if he's canon to DL, but his concept is so off the wall. Did Morrisleb give birth to him literally? Is there an alien civilisation consisting of beastmen living in Morrisleb? I don't know.
 
Codex said:
Speaking of, there's actually a Beastmen character that really took me off guard related to Morrisleb. One day, this guy, his name's Moonclaw, crashes into the world of Warhammer clinging to a meteorite from Morrisleb that might or might not be a spaceship. Every since he's been wandering the lands of the Warhammer World and goes crazy whenever Morrisleb is full, calling down meteors from the Green Moon.

I have no idea if he's canon to DL, but his concept is so off the wall. Did Morrisleb give birth to him literally? Is there an alien civilisation consisting of beastmen living in Morrisleb? I don't know.
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Well they would not really be beastmen would they? I mean at their core beastmen are air breathers and mammals and such for all the chaos-y bits. They would not really survive the hard vacuum of space, on the way I mean. As to what might live on the moon made of Dhar, my guess would be daemons. I do not think anything not of the Aethyr would survive that much Dhar. In that sense the Lunatic Prince might in fact be an odd sort of Deemon of the Chaos moon that is somehow more solid, more anchored to the world itself, like the warpstone he was birthed from.
 
Codex said:
Speaking of, there's actually a Beastmen character that really took me off guard related to Morrisleb. One day, this guy, his name's Moonclaw, crashes into the world of Warhammer clinging to a meteorite from Morrisleb that might or might not be a spaceship. Every since he's been wandering the lands of the Warhammer World and goes crazy whenever Morrisleb is full, calling down meteors from the Green Moon.

I have no idea if he's canon to DL, but his concept is so off the wall. Did Morrisleb give birth to him literally? Is there an alien civilisation consisting of beastmen living in Morrisleb? I don't know.
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Or maybe an allien was visiting, and got horribly mutated as they flew by morrslieb
 
Codex said:
One day, this guy, his name's Moonclaw, crashes into the world of Warhammer clinging to a meteorite from Morrisleb that might or might not be a spaceship.
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The version I read described it more like an egg that cracked open on impact than a spaceship?
DragonParadox said:
As to what might live on the moon made of Dhar, my guess would be daemons.
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Yes, there was once a guy that got teleported to Morrslieb, IIRC the only thing he encountered there was daemons.
 
Lupercal said:
Now Sparta was a truely terrible place to live and was not powerful for its entire existance (though the idea that the city state that controlled the entire Aegean Sea was never powerful is flawed) but it did *last* and sustain itself which is what's actually being debated by your side.
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To be fair, Sparta could break the Athenian maritime hegemony only with help from the Persians. The King of Kings gave them the money, ships and training needed to fight the Athenians on their turf.
 
Sydonai said:
The version I read described it more like an egg that cracked open on impact than a spaceship?

Yes, there was once a guy that got teleported to Morrslieb, IIRC the only thing he encountered there was daemons.
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Yeah I reread the passage to refresh my memory, and you're right it sounds like he hatched from an egg. They say there were odd fluids clinging to him as he emerged from a crater that had an egg shaped lump at the bottom, although there is no mention of it looking cracked open.

The thing is, Moonclaw is unlike most if not all Daemons. He does not have the standard Daemonic instability, his power simply waxes and wanes with the phases of Morrisleb, growing at its peak on a full moon. He doesn't have the Daemonic rules in general, but he can cast using the Lore of Shadow and the Lore of the Wild. It's also stated that he exudes green black flames and leaves afterimages when he moves though, so that's pretty neat.

Oh, another neat thing. He apparently despises Waystones and wants to see them all destroyed, so hey, we might meet him in our adventures. He has a kinda scary "Madness Aura" that makes people fall under "Stupidity" if they faill a Leadership test within 12" of him (same range as Morghur's Aura). I say scary from a narrative perspective I'm not sure if it's all that good mechanically.
 
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Codex said:
It should be mentioned that the book implies that the caverns were part of an ancient underground civilisation that has been long lost. The Dark Elves have only uncovered a small fraction of it and are still uncovering new parts of it every decade.
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So "LOL Webway" is my reaction ot that. Here I tought it was something slightly more original.
 
Daedwartin said:
Also, most trade isnt being done by humans, but the Asur.

The Asur who we should remember once tried to colonize fucking everywhere.

While many of these are now abandoned or have an issue with edge as of late...Many of them are still theres. A lot of trade is flowing to Ulthuan from the East simply because Ulthuan Rules the Waves, with the Druchi needing all shit they have just to be able to not get pushed out by the Asur going down their Asur Main.


Oh, they absolutely tried to have ports on all shores of Araby.

The plan had one major flaw: Neither the ports or any Arabyians argeed to the idea. More importantly, the Magic wielding Arabyians disargeed. And it was a time before Magnus.

Needless to say, the invading Bretonnian and Imperial Holy Orders got bitchslapped for trying to invade. The Colonies in the south survive because thats what they were able to secure.
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I know this is not what the map is here for, but the one thing I can't take my eyes off is the fact that it reverses the placement of Cathy and Khuresh.
 
Codex said:
I have no idea if he's canon to DL, but his concept is so off the wall.
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I think it's safe to assume that he's canon, that's basically what Boney's canonicity tier-list says.

If the question is in terms of if he's around yet, Moonclaw's meteor landed in what's called the Barren Hills in Talabecland, which got their name when a Warpstone meteor crashed down into them and killed off all life*. Which happened over 100 years before 2522.

So Moonclaw's probably around.


*Source for this being Sigmar's Heirs, page 90
 
Tasoli said:
So "LOL Webway" is my reaction ot that. Here I tought it was something slightly more original.
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Isn't it just as likely to be the remains of an old species that were killed when the Old Ones terraformed the planet?

Admittedly I don't know much about Warhammer 40K, but having an ancient civilization collapse when we know that planet was rearranged into it's current form by the Old Ones and had a bunch of species suffer from it seems like a legit explanation.
 
SITB said:
Isn't it just as likely to be the remains of an old species that were killed when the Old Ones terraformed the planet?

Admittedly I don't know much about Warhammer 40K, but having an ancient civilization collapse when we know that planet was rearranged into it's current form by the Old Ones and had a bunch of species suffer from it seems like a legit explanation.
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In 40k Dark Elves Live in a city inside the Webway which is a Galaxy wide Labyrantine FTL corridors left behind by Old Ones. Paralels are right there if you look at it.
 
Boney said:
The Underworld Sea dates back at least as far as 5th edition, and I believe it predates the Dark Eldar entirely.
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And it's not as though they're the only ones to make use of such. Being the only ones capable (and willing) of navigating the vast network of subterranean rivers is, more or less, Clan Sleekit's entire niche in the Under-Empire.
 
@Boney I've been looking at a lot of maps, and out of all of them, the one I've had the most success with for a general view of the Old World is a fan made one that I think is fairly decent. I'd like to have your opinion on it. It's not perfect, for example it doesn't have the River Tobol on it but most maps don't, but it does a decent job of compiling several Warhammer maps together into a reasonable fascimile:
 
Codex said:
@Boney I've been looking at a lot of maps, and out of all of them, the one I've had the most success with for a general view of the Old World is a fan made one that I think is fairly decent. I'd like to have your opinion on it. It's not perfect, for example it doesn't have the River Tobol on it but most maps don't, but it does a decent job of compiling several Warhammer maps together into a reasonable fascimile:
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The only discrepancy with the quest I can see is that it's missing southern Stirland and instead has the Moot bordering the mountains. For the Empire I rely heavily on these fan-made maps, and for the rest of the world I usually use these:





 
Boney said:
The only discrepancy with the quest I can see is that it's missing southern Stirland and instead has the Moot bordering the mountains. For the Empire I rely heavily on these fan-made maps, and for the rest of the world I usually use these:





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Oh! Thanks. I was wondering where those really nifty maps you were using for the quest came from. I came across them online but I didn't know their source. They were so good I legit thought they were official material, but I wasn't able to find them. I'll be using those a lot.
 
Codex said:
Oh! Thanks. I was wondering where those really nifty maps you were using for the quest came from. I came across them online but I didn't know their source. They were so good I legit thought they were official material, but I wasn't able to find them. I'll be using those a lot.
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Oh, I know the feeling, I spent ages trying to find which book they were in.
 
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