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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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BurnNote said:
There's also the fact that Thorgim's authority and their relationship is unclear. He clearly has some, because the Throne with its rune of eternity and the Damaz Kron is important. But there's no royal family, and none of them were around when he got sworn in.
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They still consider themselves part of Karaz Ankor, i think. They had been hoping for their royal line to return.

But I don't think Thorgrim would side with the Runesmiths in a Grudge settling debate.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Kragg declined our invitation to work with AV, citing his belief that any future the Karaz Ankor has will be found in the past. I don't think he'll truck with the Rhunkit on any level.
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He said "I don't want to do this", not "Don't do this". And given the roll, he probably at least considered it. (I'm also pretty sure he's changed his mind somewhat, because frying orks with ancestor runes is cool. He's just not going to admit)

I said it in the post: He probably doesn't want to work with the Rhunkit, but there's a decent chance he's fine with other people working with them.
IronFist said:
They still consider themselves part of Karaz Ankor, i think. They had been hoping for their royal line to return.

But I don't think Thorgrim would side with the Runesmiths in a Grudge settling debate.
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They absolutely still acknowledge his authority in general. But what that actually means might be a little vague, which would make everyone involved quite uncomfortable. And Thorgrim would have to worry that if he pushed too hard, they might decide that his authority does not extend to this topic after all.
 
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BurnNote said:
There's also the fact that Thorgim's authority and their relationship is unclear. He clearly has some, because the Throne with its rune of eternity and the Damaz Kron is important. But there's no royal family, and none of them were around when he got sworn in.
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"I am thorgrim grudgebearer, the high king of the Karaz ankor. Heed my words and obey!"
"Well I didn't vote for you."
 
I am super curious to see how Thorek handles this. He's a huge fan of using runes instead of new technology, but he's still relatively conservative. I don't think Divided Thorek is as ornery as Total War Thorek who got into an army on army brawl with a radical engineer, but there's still plenty of room for friction. For him I wouldn't be surprised for there to be some push for a "compromise" option where runesmiths slowly start taking more apprentices, but he also probably doesn't want to be too closely associated with the backlash these dwarfs are facing.
Shane_357 said:
Heheheheheheh. Lets see if we can get a few of these Rhunkit with us to the Waystone job. If nothing else, they might learn something and if ANY Dwarf is gonna get along with the Eonir it's them.
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I really don't see the benefit in this. We'd be choosing to work with dwarfs trained by apprentices in exchange for risking that the Runelords/smiths with more knowedge would blacklist the project.
 
SurpriseMe said:
I really don't see the benefit in this. We'd be choosing to work with dwarfs trained by apprentices in exchange for risking that the Runelords/smiths with more knowedge would blacklist the project.
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It's more that I see perspectives to be gained here, not knowledge. These Rhunkit don't have the same hangups and blindspots as the orthodox Cult of Thungni. There's a lot of value in that.
 
BoneyM said:
But in living we have rebuked Her thrice - once for escaping Her claws, once for taking pleasure in each others' arms without being ruled by it, and once for returning to the world to protect it once again."
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BoneyM said:
"Would it be inappropriate to invite a visitor from the Empire to share an intimate night with my wife and brother-husband?"

You blink at him. "Most would consider it so," you eventually say, taking refuge in answering the question at face value. "It is an invitation that should only be made to someone you were already quite familiar with, and in private."

"I see," he says unabashedly. "Thank you for the information."
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Ooooh, Karak Vlag has shifted into a looser polyamorous free-love society, among many other things. They turned to the physical and emotional pleasure of each other to keep themselves from falling apart, no longer binding themselves into rigid monogamy that would emotionally damage and isolate anyone whose partner died. I really like that.

BoneyM said:
"Our population is two thirds of what it was when we were stolen," he corrects, "but it was once lower, and has been climbing steadily for over a century.
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BoneyM said:
You come away from Karak Vlag thoughtful. It's changed quite a bit, as you suppose would be inevitable after almost two centuries of complete isolation in such trying circumstances. They're something of a makeshift republic, they've splintered from the Runesmithing traditions of the Cult of Thungni, their culture seems, erm, markedly different from the Dwarves you're familiar with. They've had to rebuild their entire society around necessity. No brewers if there's barely enough grain to feed everyone. No smelters and very few miners if you can only mine in a single direction, and that upriver. No traders, no hunters, no rangers. Just farmers, and fighters, and those reworking and maintaining their dwindling and irreplaceable metals as best they can over several generations.

And yet they survived. No, more than that, they thrived. Their nadir was over a century ago, Brokkr said, and their population has been climbing since.
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Damn, Karak Vlag could be huge in the cultural push towards pragmatism over tradition, and of hopefully fighting for a brighter future over despairing over how pathetic you are now. They were trapped in the goddamn Warp and their population was growing. They relentlessly shared every scrap of Rune knowledge they had and become stronger for it.

Like damn, Vlag is practically a Christmas list of cultural innovations that would benefit the Dawi.

BoneyM said:
For a moment you feel that same tinge of despair, as you wonder if the Karaz Ankor will learn from this and immediately feel that they probably won't. But Karak Vlag has a lesson for you too. Those that embrace despair will die, and leave only those that still know hope to inherit. The arch-conservatives of Karaz-a-Karak may continue to wither, but they are not the be-all and end-all of the Karaz Ankor. The Young Holds continue to grow, Zhufbar continues to invent, Barak Varr continues to trade, and Karak Kadrin continues to deepen its relationship with Ostermark. And Karak Eight Peaks lives once more.

You find yourself smiling as you climb aboard the Gyrocarriage once more.
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This is a powerful note to end Mathilde's time as a Loremaster.
 
@BoneyM, quick questions:
  • Brokkr mentioned that he was Second Generation and that each generation of the Regency Council has equal voting power. Does Mathilde know from offscreen conversations / are you willing to tell us how many Generations there are on the Council total? This is purely idle curiosity; I just am interested in how diluted the power of the original Hold's survivors is.
  • Have you read the Mistborn series by Brandon Sanderson? Because I'm getting kandra vibes from this setup, and I am here for it.
 
picklepikkl said:
@BoneyM, quick questions:
  • Brokkr mentioned that he was Second Generation and that each generation of the Regency Council has equal voting power. Does Mathilde know from offscreen conversations / are you willing to tell us how many Generations there are on the Council total? This is purely idle curiosity; I just am interested in how diluted the power of the original Hold's survivors is.
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My guess is 5 or 6
 
Shane_357 said:
It's more that I see perspectives to be gained here, not knowledge. These Rhunkit don't have the same hangups and blindspots as the orthodox Cult of Thungni. There's a lot of value in that.
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You are asking people who can just barely count to twenty without taking off their shoes for their perspective on non-Euclidean Geometry. Their perspective does not matter because they can barely make a light rune
 
BoneyM said:
Oh, and alcohol. The Elders do go on about it, though they've never been able to properly explain why."

"It's an acquired taste."

"I've got plenty of tastes without having to acquire more," he says with a shrug.
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This statement right here, that dwarves have grown up not knowing the taste of alcohol, would do much to explain their weirdness to the rest of the Karak Ankor.
 
So, to summarise: Karak Vlag doesn't have Rangers, Hunters, Traders or Smelters. They have very few Miners and probably very very few crafters in general, focusing more on maintaining what they have and creating traps and defences more than anything else. Their engineering is probably pretty shoddy, they might have crossbows, grudge and bolt throwers but certainly not gunpowder, cannons, flame cannons, iron drakes or organ guns. No metal industry for them to make anything like that and a lack of available gunpowder, if they did have anything like that they might have either stored or salvaged it for materials.

They don't have brewers or alcohol, and dedicated everything to farming, fighting and surviving. Reptilian leather indicates non-conventional livestock instead of the traditional goat, and a third of their population has rudimentary rune knowledge. I'm willing to bet none of them even know how to make a Master Rune and they completely ignore the Rule of Pride, working on mass production, acting in Dispel Teams to shut down any magical attacks, and work entirely to maintain the Runes across the hold. I imagine their fighters are formidable for them to survive so long, and their specialties being fighting Daemons, tricky magic and being absolutely paranoid.

Well, with all of this said, I will admit I have absolutely no idea what we could even possibly use the Transcendant Boon we have with them on. Waystones? Sounds like a bad idea. Cult of Thugni doesn't like them and their knowledge leaves much to be desired, they're barely apprentice level, there's just a lot of them. Making something for us? I have no idea what they could even craft, they've been focused on survival for so long they lost a lot of their knowledge. Maybe they have some rad artifact still in their vaults that they haven't used for whatever reason, but I'd feel scummy to deprive them of any of their wealth or possessions after two centuries of imprisonment. At least at a time when they need it.

Maybe if we need a Throng to come to our aid or something, but even then I'd be hesistant to use that pull. I'm genuinely stumped here.
 
SurpriseMe said:
I am super curious to see how Thorek handles this. He's a huge fan of using runes instead of new technology, but he's still relatively conservative. I don't think Divided Thorek is as ornery as Total War Thorek who got into an army on army brawl with a radical engineer, but there's still plenty of room for friction. For him I wouldn't be surprised for there to be some push for a "compromise" option where runesmiths slowly start taking more apprentices, but he also probably doesn't want to be too closely associated with the backlash these dwarfs are facing.
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Thorek is for all intents and purposes the Azul Runesmiths guild. Pretty sure Karaz-a-Karak doesn't want to get into a pissing contest with Azul because they're one of the last bastions of relative conservatism.
 
picklepikkl said:
  • Brokkr mentioned that he was Second Generation and that each generation of the Regency Council has equal voting power. Does Mathilde know from offscreen conversations / are you willing to tell us how many Generations there are on the Council total? This is purely idle curiosity; I just am interested in how diluted the power of the original Hold's survivors is.
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Only the first three generations are numerous enough to have meaningful representation.

picklepikkl said:
  • Have you read the Mistborn series by Brandon Sanderson? Because I'm getting kandra vibes from this setup, and I am here for it.
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I have, but that was back when there was just the first trilogy and I don't remember many of the details.
 
Codex said:
Well, with all of this said, I will admit I have absolutely no idea what we could even possibly use the Transcendant Boon we have with them on. Waystones? Sounds like a bad idea. Cult of Thugni doesn't like them and their knowledge leaves much to be desired, they're barely apprentice level, there's just a lot of them. Making something for us? I have no idea what they could even craft, they've been focused on survival for so long they lost a lot of their knowledge. Maybe they have some rad artifact still in their vaults that they haven't used for whatever reason, but I'd feel scummy to deprive them of any of their wealth or possessions after two centuries of imprisonment. At least at a time when they need it.
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Waystones is not really applicable since most of the knowledge has been lost.

Like maybe we can ask Kragg and Thorek but outside of those two everyone else likely knows less than Mathilde.

As for using the boon - unless we go with the Queen of Vlag take in order to troll Thorgrim we could just bank it. We kept the Karak Eight Peaks favour for years until the appropriate time came; there's no reason to hurry to cash all of our favours at once.
 
DragonParadox said:
Yes but you will not be recreating any Waystones with that.
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No, probably not. But they might let some basic piece of information that they don't consider "sacred" which lets someone else make a leap of logic they otherwise wouldn't have made.

Not saying Rhunkit would be better to have than actual runesmith involvement, but in the absence of that...
 
Shane_357 said:
It's more that I see perspectives to be gained here, not knowledge. These Rhunkit don't have the same hangups and blindspots as the orthodox Cult of Thungni. There's a lot of value in that.
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One of the core ideas of the waystone project is pooling the knowledge of different groups, hoping that they lost different bits. That's not to say they couldn't be useful (especially if we ever get to the production stage), or that the different approach/perspective isn't useful, but the main Runesmiths would be more useful.
Besides, the difference in prespective between wind users and rune users will be much larger. As will be between different wind user groups, I would say.
 
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