Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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[X] Plan Not Quite ALL the Way

I would prefer the max keel-hauling, since magical healing and the political interests of the Matriarch negate the possibility of death and permanent-maiming, but I'm really not okay with giving up all 5 great ships.

Plan Not all the Great Ships would be my preference, but it looks like this one meets my preferences most closely.
 
Garlak said:
@torroar are we supposed to be voting only, and not allowed to discuss or say anything at all? I hadn't quite gotten that impression (even after I read your latest post) so...

If that was meant to be a "Please just vote it out", then I'll spoiler most of my previous post or something, if that's what needs to be done?
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You don't need to spoil it. It's fine. Let's just move on, please.
 
[X] Plan: All In, As Usual

What's the point of playing a character like Frederick if you're not going to go all in on shit like this? Drive the bastard like you stole him, I say. It's not like he'll leave behind a good looking corpse; that ship set sail long ago. :V
 
[X] Plan Not Quite ALL the Way

We kinda need our navy losing all of our great ships will set us back YEARS just rebuilding our great ships when the rest of our navy got hit hard by the shore crazys

let's keep a reserve.
 
Woooinion said:
[] Plan Not Quite ALL the Way

I would prefer the max keel-hauling, since magical healing and the political interests of the Matriarch negate the possibility of death and permanent-maiming, but I'm really not okay with giving up all 5 great ships.

Plan Not all the Great Ships would be my preference, but it looks like this one meets my preferences most closely.
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It's not like Ostland is losing the great ships, though. Maghda would put them to use where they're needed. I think we've seen enough from that IC and the QM posts that that shouldn't be in question. Where they're needed includes Ostland.
And they'll be needed there if we're entrusting our current greatships to the Cult. Given that trust, Maghda won't betray it. She does not want to hurt Ostland or its people.

It's just that they wouldn't be in Frederick's direct control anymore. Hell, it would probably encourage him to go to the Cult if he wants some extra greatships (because you better believe I'll support building more of our own in the years to come) for something.

That's the point of the greatship part. Deference to and cooperation with the cult to make up for not doing so before. Proving we learned a lesson and applying that lesson for the benefit of both parties.

We can build more greatships and have other defenses, but Maghda will not leave Ostland lacking in greatship defense while it needs it.

And it gives Maghda greater influence with the cult the bigger the sacrifice we make.


The point of the keelhauling is to satisfy the zealots and masses that want blood. The Maisel may be enough to satisfy most, but the harsher it is the more it will convince, and the more likely that those who remain unsatisfied/want more (if any are left) are seen as being too harsh. We saw that in Zhufbar and the aftermath. Frederick did all four punishments, considered utterly humiliating and if not dangerous, at least detrimental to one's health. The punishments were considered so severe by the dawi that most saw it as too harsh. Afterward, anyone that was grumbling and complaining were mostly seen as being too harsh or just stubborn (even for dawi!).

This is what we should go for here. To appease as much/get as much approval as possible so that Frederick, and by extension Ostland, is as close to being beyond reproach and having paid his debt in full (and more!) as possible.

For Ostland, Frederick shouldn't half ass this.
 
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Alexander Sturnn said:
Pretty sure giving up three of five Greatships, bruning Druuchi Ships AND doing the second to most dangerous Keelhauling does not count as 'half-assing'.
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One of those three greatships is the newest one with the least prestige to it.

I'd call that... .55 ass. You get a bit more than half ass for just over half the ships, but not much. ;)

And it rather misses the point about entrusting our great ships to the Cult and that they'll use them to protect Ostland. If we leave a 'reserve' as some are hoping for...then that says we don't trust them to do so.

Nothing wrong with building more ships that would be wholly Frederick's later on (I plan to push for that as much as possible). But we can trust the Cult under Maghda to make good use of all the greatships, including in protecting Ostland.


As for the keelhauling, if you want to force even the harshest critics into silence, anything less than the harshest option we can take is not enough, and I would consider that a half measure.
 
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Alexander Sturnn said:
Pretty sure giving up three of five Greatships, bruning Druuchi Ships AND doing the second to most dangerous Keelhauling does not count as 'half-assing'.
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But it's not "doing all he can, for his people."

(Or 'all he reasonably can', I guess. As, as torroar said, Frederick won't slice his throat or empty his treasury; he's not stupid. So the disagreement comes down to 'What is reasonable?' And here we all are at an impasse, with very different perceptions on what 'reasonable' is. =/ Me, I think that all 5, or at minimum 3, ships will be dedicated solely to defending Ostland for the foreseeable future. At least until we can replace it. So to me, it's not something that reduces our people's safety and security -- heck, we outright get told how much Maghda doesn't want to screw our people and sailors over!)

I think the only category here with levels of risk in here is the one with keelhauling since it outright says that in its write up, talking about which are most dangerous and which not. And the risk I feel is acceptable: in fact, we actually have amazing levels of mitigation for this! (We have a major artifact in the form of the Light of Summer, and we even have a Jade Wizard on retainer.)

I feel most strongly about handing over all the ships; I think that that category of actions, about the ships, is the one that has the most impact on Ostland's defenses.

But, I view it as the one that most improves Ostland's defenses. Because those ships will still be sailing with us. Just now with a crack crew.

And, just as important and effective, it means that all the people of Ostland will literally be sailing alongside most-dedicated-to-Manann ships!

The sheer relief and certainty that will offer to the sailors and dockworkers of Ostland will be immense.

Nothing says a huge sign of Manann's forgiveness or acceptance, than having literally all your flagships be decorated and dedicated to Manann.
 
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