Armor for Oskana, please - gryphon barding is a thing in the Empire, well established, and like hecc we're going to not look as spanky as possible.

This is the EMPIRE. Our basis for fashion is the Holy Roman Empire, the German states. We have STANDARDS to live up to here, in hats, shiny things, bling of war, and moustaches/beards!

Edit: And it should be dwarf-made, to boot!
 
Like I said above, the best way to think about pure carnivores food needs is in terms of body weight. Canids and big cats, about 5% of their mass per day is the mean. They'll often eat more than a days worth in a sitting. A massive flying creature like the gryphon is likely to require at least 3x as much proportional caloric intake to be healthy

Edit: And it should be dwarf-made, to boot!

I'm a big fan of this idea.
 
Armor for Oskana, please - gryphon barding is a thing in the Empire, well established, and like hecc we're going to not look as spanky as possible.

This is the EMPIRE. Our basis for fashion is the Holy Roman Empire, the German states. We have STANDARDS to live up to here, in hats, shiny things, bling of war, and moustaches/beards!

Edit: And it should be dwarf-made, to boot!
Agreed so hard. Heck, Sigismund got runed gromril armor!

While I would love to get that Oskana I would just be happy with steel mastercrafted armor if that is all we can get in short amount of time.
 
A griffon is several times the size of a lion, probably ten times as massive or more. Furthermore, griffons are flying creatures, which means that unless their metabolism is overtly magical they're probably requiring a lot more calories, pound for pound, than a lion.
Yeah, I'm sure a griffon's calorie needs are significantly higher than a normal arse lion, but the average cow (apparently 1000lbs) apparently yields around 430 lbs of "marketable" meat....which is significantly more than the 20ish lbs a lion needs every 3-4 days. Plus I'm pretty sure a griffon can eat and digest the bones as well. Or at least crack the bones for marrow.
 
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A griffon is several times the size of a lion, probably ten times as massive or more. Furthermore, griffons are flying creatures, which means that unless their metabolism is overtly magical they're probably requiring a lot more calories, pound for pound, than a lion.
Even then, a one or two sheeps per day in a much more reasonable estimation, warm blood predators usually need to eat between 5-10٪ of their body mass per day, if a griffin weights 2000 kg (10 times more than an adult lion) she would be fine eating around 140kg per day.
 
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A griffon is several times the size of a lion, probably ten times as massive or more. Furthermore, griffons are flying creatures, which means that unless their metabolism is overtly magical they're probably requiring a lot more calories, pound for pound, than a lion.
The fact that they fly at all is magical. And mallus is supposed to be larger than earth which means flight is even more absurd. I can believe a magic metabolism.
 
Like I said above, the best way to think about pure carnivores food needs is in terms of body weight. Canids and big cats, about 5% of their mass per day is the mean. They'll often eat more than a days worth in a sitting. A massive flying creature like the gryphon is likely to require at least 3x as much proportional caloric intake to be healthy
Yeah, I'm sure a griffon's calorie needs are significantly higher than a normal arse lion, but the average cow (apparently 1000lbs) apparently yields around 430 lbs of "marketable" meat....which is significantly more than the 20ish lbs a lion needs every 3-4 days. Plus I'm pretty sure a griffon can eat and digest the bones as well. Or at least crack the bones for marrow.
Even then, a one or two shep per day in a much more reasonable estimation, warm blood predators usually need to eat between 5-10٪ of their body mass per day, if a griffin weights 2000 kg (10 times more than an adult lion) she would be fine eating around 140kg per day.
The fact that they fly at all is magical. And mallus is supposed to be larger than earth which means flight is even more absurd. I can believe a magic metabolism.
Also keep in mind that most if not all big predators when they aren't hunting are lazing around to conserve energy since they need said energy to hunt in first place since its hard on a good day. In the wild a more a few lost meals could be difference between surviving and starving.

Like said this is just magnified with a huge flying creature like a griffin, and when raised in captivity have regular access to food which allows them to grow larger and stronger than feral kin. Therefore, flying murderkittens need all that meat! It isn't wrong to consider them ogre-like in their need to feed.

Heck, we should be glad we have improved our province's agriculture as much as we have and why we keep doing so since we need to feed not only our people and Oskana, but native ogres in general. Sure thanks to influence of local gods they aren't likely to devour everything in their path, only till full, but that is still a lot of food to satisfy your average ogre. At least ogres can get things over than meat unlike a griffin.
 
Back of the napkin, probably very bad math?

A cow requires something like 24 pounds of dry hay per day so that is 8760 pounds a year. You can get about 4000 pounds of hay to an acre in a primary harvest and can probably be harvested twice a year in our climate, the second harvest being a bit smaller. So you need more than one acre set aside for one cow, maybe more like two depending on conditions, assuming you are practicing enclosure and not migrating them with the season. Say 1.75 since I'm sure we're producing hay on some of our worst soil. We need a sacrifice of 365 cows so that comes to 639 acres. That is practically nothing.

It takes more than a year for a cow to reach slaughter, 36 to 42 months, and you have to have a cut to maintain the herdsman's lifestyle as well... but you could house a herd that size on a dinky piece of land. But maybe I'm just screwing up basic arithmetic.
 
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Cause I assume griffins are large large predators who burn through a lot of calories just flying around and fighting, and while wild ones are able to hunt over course of days Oskana and other Imperial griffins eat more often and thus tend to be larger and stronger.
I have actually looked into what different animals actually eat including animals bigger (some of the amounts are estimates based on comparing sizes of various things so we can properly scale up) than Oskana.

I have also based my estimates on a low end for how much meat a cow might provide. By that I mean using the smallest breed of undomesticated wild cow that isn't even in europe rather than using modern cattle that has actually been bred for meat which is probably the closer (although it would be less than modern cows) to what we are supposedly actually feeding Oskana.

I asked Torroar to see if they are willing to actually look at some facts and figures, I haven't received a reply which is fine, but until then I'm not going to go into the details because it would be a bit de-railly.
 
A massive flying creature like the gryphon is likely to require at least 3x as much proportional caloric intake to be healthy
I've seen this from a few people. Out of curiosity, I looked up average weight for golden eagles (the largest, or one of the largest raptors IRL), and found it to be 10-15 pounds for a female, which are typically larger than males. I also looked up average daily food requirements for golden eagles, and found that "a fully-grown golden eagle requires about 230 to 250 g (8.1 to 8.8 oz) of food per day." Because the Imperial system of weights and measures is garbage, I'm going to convert pounds to grams for weight. Let's split the difference between 10 and 15 and say 12.5 pounds, which converts to 5670 grams (rounding slightly). Using the high-end estimate for food per day, 250/5670 = 0.0440, convert that to a percent and we have 4.4% of body weight per day on average. So quite typical for a predator.

Carrying Freddy probably adds to her caloric requirements (our boy is not a slender gent), but even if it outright doubled them - unlikely IMO - that's still less than 10% of her body weight daily. I doubt that patrolling actually adds much if anything to her caloric requirements compared to wild specimens though. Golden eagles, like most/AFAIK pretty much all predators, have many more hunting failures than hunting successes so they typically hunt throughout daylight hours to get enough to eat. There's a lot more info about that behind the dietary requirements link I posted before if anybody's interested.
 
Like said this is just magnified with a huge flying creature like a griffin, and when raised in captivity have regular access to food which allows them to grow larger and stronger than feral kin. Therefore, flying murderkittens need all that meat! It isn't wrong to consider them ogre-like in their need to feed.
Actually, even if it sounds counter intuitive, a huge flying creature requires much less energy than smaller flying creatures to fly...

The bigger the flying creature is, it needs a bigger wingspan to fly, and with massive wingspan a flying creature gains the ability to soar much better than creature with smaller wingspan, so they can fly extremely long distances without spending energy after the initial take-off.
 
Gryphons don't have a realistic wingspan, so all bets are off.

It should be noted that our gryphon is, going by the illustration Torroar posted, big. She stands rather more than horse-high at the shoulder. Lot of mass there.
 
Quick question.

Do Gryphons have a size they max at?

Also a cow a day makes sense really. Warhammer is fantasy after all. As much are we nail down parts of it for quests? Stuff like this shouldn't be a surprise.
 
It should be noted that our gryphon is, going by the illustration Torroar posted, big. She stands rather more than horse-high at the shoulder. Lot of mass there.
This is also true! And if she weighs, say, 5000 pounds then even just 4.4% of her body weight is still 220 pounds which is non-negligible. A full-grown cow can weigh around 1000 pounds itself though.

Anyway, while I'm as happy to poke around the hypothetical feed requirements of mythical creatures as the next guy who is for some reason as into that as me, from a game/quest perspective we should probably just leave this behind the veil of abstraction for the most part. I will say that I don't think feed requirements are necessarily the primary barrier to gryphon ownership. You need to find one (which wasn't easy for us even with a lead to follow IIRC), raise one yourself to get it to imprint on you (neither easy nor safe, we literally lost a body part the same day she hatched and most people don't regrow those), need to be sure it understands what is and is not acceptable prey since if your property kills and eats somebody else's property - or, y'know, just kills and eats somebody - you are liable for that, need to be sure it understands you are not acceptable prey even if you're not a warrior who can impress it, and need somewhere for it to live. Most people don't live in castles that just happen to have space for a full-grown gryphon in them.

Tl;dr, even if cost of feed was lowered drastically for some reason (plant-eating gryphons are discovered!) gryphons would remain a luxury/prestige possession for a very specific demographic IMO. And that's not even factoring in political considerations; such as, if some non-EC individual did manage to get themselves their very own gryphon, how absolutely confident would they really be that their EC wouldn't look at them and go "hang on, why do they get to have one of those and show me up? I'm feeling a gryphon tax coming on, somebody get my stewardship advisor in here" or something else in a range of negative reactions that only goes down from there? Given the expense and difficulty of getting/raising a gryphon in the first place, they would need to be dead sure of that before even trying.
 
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I have actually looked into what different animals actually eat including animals bigger (some of the amounts are estimates based on comparing sizes of various things so we can properly scale up) than Oskana.

I have also based my estimates on a low end for how much meat a cow might provide. By that I mean using the smallest breed of undomesticated wild cow that isn't even in europe rather than using modern cattle that has actually been bred for meat which is probably the closer (although it would be less than modern cows) to what we are supposedly actually feeding Oskana.

I asked Torroar to see if they are willing to actually look at some facts and figures, I haven't received a reply which is fine, but until then I'm not going to go into the details because it would be a bit de-railly.

I mean, it's vaguely relevant, so I figured you just...sorta would?

Though it should be noted that the front half is giant bird, but the back half is mountain lion, without the wingspan required to actually haul that mass around naturally. So assuming precise animal comparisons is a bit wonky.
 
I'm.....reasonably certain that unless griffons have an extraordinarily fast metabolism, I'd say a cow a day is probably too harsh. A wild griffon would either starve to death real quick or have to control an incredibly vast area in order to meet that kind of caloric intake requirement. Now I'm not gonna say a griffon has a lower food requirement than a normal arse lion (which is apparently 10kg of meat every 3-4 days), but a whole ass cow a day would probably make for a fat griffon. So a cow a week plus "enrichment" prey is probably more reasonable?
Sure but Imperial Griffons are bigger and stronger than wild griffons, due to selective breeding, more exercise and better diet.

A cow a day is probably not what Oskana needs to survive, but what she needs to stay in her absolute top shape and to live her more active lifestyle.
 
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For Oskana's armor I was thinking something like this. The face can be replaced by Ostland's bull head and maybe even add bull horns to head part.

Thoughts?
 
For Oskana's armor I was thinking something like this. The face can be replaced by Ostland's bull head and maybe even add bull horns to head part.

Thoughts?
While I would certainly like to give her some armor, and it would be very narratively fitting at this point given she probably saw Sigismund in his at some point, and we've seen that she is benefiting from Octaine's education, I'm gonna wait to confirm it's actually possible first before making aesthetic plans.
 
Honestly... the best source of meat would probably be from whaling. Unlike with the real world whaling industry, we wouldn't waste a scrap of it. It wouldn't satisfy the predator instinct but it would be an excellent supplement in terms of calories, especially when she is getting the predation requirement handled partially through non-edibles like beastment, and so requiring the sacrifice of fewer cows. its more like whale flavored protein shakes for a bodybuilder but every little bit helps.

I'm not going to worry about penny pinching too much, though it probably means we are going to need to pawn off resulting chicks to various friendlies. The better the forces of order do the better we do.
The issue with Whales is that they tend to be mutated hellbeasts.
Wait, a troll meat couldn't keep up with the demand for our gryphon?

That's a lot of meat then considering trolls were able to keep ogres fed during that time. NVM how Grom managed to grow so large due to it.
The Troll steak Grom ate kept trying to regenerate while inside his stomach.

The fact that Grom didn't die is a mix of luck and greenskin bullshit.
This is also true! And if she weighs, say, 5000 pounds then even just 4.4% of her body weight is still 220 pounds which is non-negligible. A full-grown cow can weigh around 1000 pounds itself though.
Square/cube law. Twice the height means eight times the mass.

If Oskana is twice the height of a full-grown Cow and of similar musculature, she'd be ~8000 pounds without the wing structure. Which would probably put her true weight at over 9000.
*crushes scouter*
 
I mean, it's vaguely relevant, so I figured you just...sorta would?

Though it should be noted that the front half is giant bird, but the back half is mountain lion, without the wingspan required to actually haul that mass around naturally. So assuming precise animal comparisons is a bit wonky.
Well, some initial basic arguments... Cows are honestly too valuable to regularly feed a griffon, they provide milk or labour (i.e. pull the heavy wagon or canal boat or whatever), after they are no longer able to do their main job they would be sold relatively cheaply.
There is also a difference between what Oskana can physically eat, how much she needs, how much a griffon needs to gorge etc. Most predators don't eat their full each day and might have failed hunts.
Cattle might not be used for labour in Ostland

I'm also not entirely sure if griffons are supposed to have a realistic wing span or not, mostly because there are limits as to what a model can have, and artistic interpretation, are there any official wings spans?... Now checked the official stance is they have far shorter wings spans than they should… still they might be lighter than they look, fur and feathers can really bulk up stuff.
A fair portion of Oskana's height seems to be part of her height... although yeah fairly long hm... yep got the rough dimensions in my head

The lowest estimate for the amount of meat a cow might have historically I have found is 100kg, or 220 lb. This is quite on the low end and is assuming the empire hasn't been trying to breed high meat cows for 2000 years... I mean 200kg is on the small end for cattle. The smallest wild cattle now are the Anoa which has a weight of 150-300kg but a lot of that won't be actual meat

Here's a list of more farmed cows, Cattle in the Middle Ages

https://bahs.org.uk/AGHR/ARTICLES/36n2a4.pdf provides a weight of 250 lb/113kg (trying to find lower ends of averages) as a fairy common range, although there are ranges this is the typical average (some maximum of over 500lb with minimum as low as 35lb)

Polar bears (350–700kg/ 770–1,540 lb can eat about 100 pounds a day. However according to Polar bear diet a 121lb seal will feed it for 8 days although it does need to eat a lot more to build up fat. This is probably the best starting point however they also bit smaller and have a greater need to store fat for when they don't find a lot of prey. A griffon on the other hand needs to be able to fly so wouldn't be gathering as much meat… actually I wonder do griffons migrate over the course of a year to better hunting grounds.

polarbearfacts.net

How Much Do Polar Bears Eat? • Polar Bear Facts

A polar bear consumes 43 seals let alone ringed seals a year. Biologists also calculated that 1,800 to 2,000 polar bears will require 77,400 to 128,469 seals annually. It’s not every day that polar bears find animals they need to eat. You might like to know how much do polar bears eat a day as...

Alaskan Brown bear (360-540 kg/800-1,200 lb ), 80-90lb a day...

Jaguar's 4 pounds a day

lions 11-16 pounds a day

Siberian tigers (180–306kg/397–675lb), low end 20lb a day to survive or 110lb as something they can eat per day (so likely eats a small amount regularly and a large amount to build up fat for when it has poor hunting.) I'm glad I found this because it does show the difference between need to live and maximum amount... Naturally other animals listed may well gorge

Orca's are fed 150lb in aquariums and would hunt 375lb… although yeah they live in the water so probably completely different needs

A walrus (which quite literally weighs a ton to 1.5tons) eats about 120kg/264lb a day but different forms of meat so less of an idea on accuracy.

I found a statement that a 6 ton t-rex would need to eat about 140kg of meat a day. So most cows would actually feed more than one t-rex... basically giving them the chance to gorge and not hunt for a fair bit.

Modern cows for meat purposes give about 800 to a 1000 lb of meat or 362kg to 454kg... but yeah, I'm not assuming this is a modern cow

Big factor, should and can eat do matter. Oskana eats daily and doesn't have to worry about failed hunts, so she probably doesn't need to gorge. While I believe she might be able to eat small cows I doubt she needs to eat them daily, it is the sort of thing that should feed her for a few days.

I mean seriously 8-10 polar bears would be fairly satisfied to share one modern cow between them, 3 polar bears for a 1700s cow, and that's even if they thought they wouldn't eat for a few more days.

A pig can provide 150lb of meat and seems far closer, so maybe one or two to feed Oskana with the second providing left overs... couldn't find any good 1700s estimates but Poland has some wild boar estimates of 106lb carcass weight for an adult so that should serve as a fairly good estimate...

Other detail... Oskana might be less picky about the types of meat she eats I'm just going with what a human could

Note I'm continuing to research this stuff.... probably won't make another post on it
 
Honestly GW dont have any idea about economics(like they dont have about any world building).
A gold coin is just a nominator,you usually deal with silver coins at best and most nobles wealth is in land and rss,not money.
So for a cow to cost 10 gold coins it will mean that only the wealthiest peasent can afford one and cow produce are expensive as hell and that will drive the price up bc the price make them rare and so on.Lets not forget that cow leather is commonly use and milk and cheese are common food items.
I will go for 1 gold coins for the best cows and half of that or a little lower for normal cows.If you keep 10 gold on a cow,nobody will sacrifice a cow for leather and meat and milk and cheese will be only on the noble table at feasts.
Also,if oskana eat a cow a day(which is a big animal) she wont be able to fly quite soon bc she is getting fat bc of the lack of exercise and overabundence of food.Wild animals dont need to eat every day.
The best idea can be provided by real world zoo and how much they feed the large predators they have.
 
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yeah golds value is more based on it's scarcity and the fact it is both malleable and doesn't oxidize like silver making it the perfect currency
maybe warhammer has a different prevalence of gold making modern value estimates pointless
 
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