Let's be honest. Dice are random, but it's still up to author to decide how many rolls there are, what are those rolls, what are the actual narrative consequences of each roll, even how some factors influence the rolls in question, and by how much.
Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism
- Thread starter torroar
- Start date
- Mature
-
- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy intrigue happens male protagonist ck2 quest belief stronk count of cannons drunken wisdom foes in the shadows graf of guns (guns) if you have a question check the front page first it begins... mountain vietnam ogres paranoia rising unseen enemies everywhere use the search function before asking waifu wars wake the bull
Let's be honest. Dice are random, but it's still up to author to decide how many rolls there are, what are those rolls, what are the actual narrative consequences of each roll, even how some factors influence the rolls in question, and by how much.
Let's focus in on Karak Ungor, for the purposes of this answer.
It might be surprising to hear it, but Frederick didn't take center stage, for the most part. He just happened to be there in the sections that involved him.
The fight against Skulltaker was a note on the side compared to Thorgrim killing Grishgak, the Warlord of Red Eye Mountain, while over in that one tower, Frederick+Ungrim fought Skulltaker. In the running in the tunnels after the escape from the Chaos Dwarf compound, which involved the White Dwarf breaking out the moment there was a distraction. As in, Frederick could have entirely failed in his escape attempt, and Grombrindal could have escaped due to the ritual drawing the CD's away to watch. For most part, Frederick was a companion to the Real Protagonist, if it were a BL novel, being Thorgrim himself. Thorgrim fought off Grishgak on his arachnarok in a grand duel before the armies, Thorgrim killed a member of the Council of 13, Thorgrim led the armies and organized the Throng and made the tactical decisions. He just happened to have some human aid that came in on the side, who at most would have gotten a few notes here and there amongst paragraphs and paragraphs of him juggling Traditionalists and Radicals amongst the dawi as well as negotiating with other nobles and thanes.
Before Karak Ungor, there was the Battle of the Bone Gate. There, Frederick killed Warhoof, yes.
But he didn't need to. Narariel had already rallied her troops, and was assaulting the Bone Gate itself. Frederick could have remained inside the Pulverizer circle and Warhoof would have escaped, all while Narariel shattered the Bone Gate and routed the beastmen. Frederick's fight with Warhoof was somewhat important, yes, but not to the overall progress of the greater battle.
If Skulltaker had won against Frederick, Roland, and Ungrim, he would have then fought against Thorgrim, Garagrim, Kragg and all the others, and would likely have lost as they ganged up on him. If Ghorros had killed Frederick, Laurelorn still would have won as they broke the Bone Gate.
I think the problem here is that in my opinion the Hohenzollerns aren't taking center stage at all, but that they're just performing on the Hohenzollern Stage. Where it seems, by virtue of the writing, that Frederick or another Hohenzollern are most prominent. But the Hohenzollern Stage is just one plate spinning amongst many, and it is by the own concept of the quest that the players are focused on just that one plate. It isn't that the other plates aren't spinning, that the other players aren't acting on their own stages, it's just that the viewpoint is for the most part on one plate. You said that it should be fine if one is just making a contribution without taking the center stage. Well, that's exactly what happened...from the perspective of Naraiel Dawnstone in Laurelorn Quest, and Thorgrim in the Grudgebearer Quest, and so on. To them, he helped, but the most important things (rallying the troops, routing the beastmen, breaking the Bone Gate / leading the Throng, reclaiming the hammer, killing first Doomclaw and then Grishgak) were done entirely by them! It just happened that a human was present, and he was fighting off to the side, and did some stuff, and happened to accompany them here and there.
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree, because to me it feels like you're talking about something that is already happening but to you it isn't, and I think that that's just coming down to a matter of differing perspectives as writer/reader and not one that is going to be 'fixed' if that's even the right word for it. Sorry man. I just get the feeling that this conversation in particular is going to be an endless spiral, and not one I really want to involve myself in anymore. So if we could move on, that would be great. If not...sorry again?
ShyPerson
Guardian of the dead’s final rest.
- Location
- Sweden
- Pronouns
- Him/He
Firstly annoying fans are the last thing you should base your opinion of anything on.
Secondly, canon in regards to Chaos is often stupidly written, torroar is much better at hadeling the amount of power it generally throws around.
Thirdly the pessimism is frankly uncalled for. History is generally a push and pull between diffrent forces. Do not take canons blatant cheating for its favorite faction for the truth in this setting. You are frankly pulling a great deal of cherry picking to make everything look meaningless.
Shit happens, and it is up to us if we do something about it, or mope ineffectually.
Ah right.
Klingon promotion on the guy who pulled a klingon promotion on the guy who started the bloodline.
Night's Dark Masters, WHFRP2E, page 31.
Edit: Also:
Night's Dark Masters, WHFRP2E page 59
Same source, I know. But still.
Last edited:
It's best if we move on, yes. I take your point, and even if I don't necessarily agree completely, well, that's on me and my preference.
- Location
- United States
I have to imagine a decent chunk of that prestige was stuff Freddy should have gotten for defeating Warhoof and Slugtongue and all of that, but which was otherwise altered post facto by the elves to diminish his role in things.
I took me quite a moment to realize you weren't referring to Boys' Love novels here.
The fact that such an alternative usage of BL managed to establish itself within the Warhammer fandom says some depressing (imo) things about its demographics though...
Or at least by the Elves in Athel Loren, who maybe heard the Reports from their Laurelorn-Kin and dismissed them as 'overblown'.
That's not happening this time.
Last edited:
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
It's not just them it's also gw itself. Brettonia suffers from Tau over correction so ocellates from hellhole to paradise.
indeed, but it's still a depressing amount of power. They don't need fourth wall cheats they got plenty in character.
cherry picking is an odd way of looking at it?These are major conflicts the worst is yeah butting that they didn't win on their own merits it was x that shot y in the foot. Asfor push and pull can we start pulling again cause we've been getting slowly crushed for the past...3500 is years.
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
Well, I've taken a day to digest the update and reactions to it all before coming back to this. Uncertainty about the quality and whether or not it makes the same mistakes as Karak Ungor. And I've come to two conclusions. One good, one you'll... have to make up your mind on. So let's get the unpleasantness out of the way.
There's no longer point in me giving you constructive critisism. At all. At a basic, fundamental level, I don't want to get a bunch of people shouting at me that I "upset" a guy who's almost literally poured blood, sweat, and tears into a piece of work just to have a conversation. I do have critisism, even within what comes next, but it's just more trouble than its worth. But if I had to give a less "petty" reason, it'd be down to genre. I've compared Quests before to a tabletop campaign and a webnovel, but there's a similar comparison to make that addresses the real issue behind 'length too long=people bored'. Serial fiction. A conventional book or even a video game you experience in one metaphorical sitting. But a comic, manga, or tabletop campaign has issues and sessions, multiple semi-self-contained pieces of a larger story. And because there's an IRL length of time between each section and the overall length of the story is longer, the pacing is different. Advising what is good for a normal narrative many of us are familiar with, whether a novel or a dozen-session D&D campaign, wouldn't be entirely applicable. Especially with the CK2 level of off-screen detail you're tracking for other factions.
The good news is I think I've discovered a narrative theme that's been around since the beginning of the quest. One that's motivated every big-name boss we've fought. To use a quote I initially made as a joke:
Eh. It's what happens to those who make the PC's daughteru cry: The playerbase loses their minds in a quest for bloody vengeance.
Losing the people most precious to you in Mallus can warp and twist you into something insane, monstrous, unstable in every sense of the word, and powerful enough to wreak mass amounts of havok. And that's independent of Chaos. Every action does this in some form. That one vampire lord Freddie almost died to who was part of that one old pre-Empire tribe, he wanted his family to acknowledge and respect him. Kattarin The Bloody explicitly went off the deep end and became a being of cruel, magical might after losing her husband. Before Karak Ungor brought back hope for a future, Dwarves down to the individual have a deep-seated despair and inferiority complex that the works of their Ancestors were forever lost and the fragmented remnants were soon to join them. That they were not up to the task entrusted to them. Coeddil and many of the other spirits within Athel Loren have been sitting on bitter grief for deaths that occurred long before Athel Loren was even a thing, and when the Elves took shelter with them it only got worse. And in the finale of Lovely Laurelorn? We see what that does to both Freddie and Natasha. Natasha channeled far more magic than she could handle, and has paid a heavy price to her mind and body. And Freddie... Freddie turned into a literal monster, swirling with an unstable mixture of Winds and divine blessings that was tearing him apart. And this wasn't even the first time he's had that much conflicting holds on his soul. If Freddie hadn't been alone to chug his way through enough God Wine to resurrect an entire city, this would've been the end. But I digress. This all clicked for me once the big scene with Drycha happened. It's part of her lore that she hates everything not-tree for the losses of spirits around her. She's been broken from this grief long before this whole clusterfuck kicked off. But with Coeddil dead, she lost the closest thing she had to a husband. Something that, deep beneath the rage and vengeance, I think Freddie understood that.
Well, I'm off to work. Hope this brightened your day @torroar.
This.
GW REALLY pushed Chaos hard in the last Editions, because they wanted to destroy the Setting and move on to AoS. So, Chaos got the God-Sue-Mode Treatment and effortlessly wiped out the World.
Of course, none of the longtime Fans were really buying it. The Order Factions had stood and fought for so long against Chaos. And suddenly they just keel over and die? What should've been an epic Struggle for Chaos instead became 'Super Easy, barely an Inconvenience.' The Forces of Orders unceremonious defeat just felt forced. As one Guy put it, Chaos didn't even get to look cool while destroying the World in The End Times.
Anyway, point is: Chaos is NOT inevitably victorious in the World of this @torroar Quest. Yes, they are incredibly powerful. Yes, they are a huge Threat. Yes, they CAN win and destroy the World POTENTIALLY. Yes, the will exist far beyond the Lifetime of Frederick and many, MANY of his Descendants.
But their Victory is not inevitable. They are NOT invincible. They can suffer setbacks and even clear defeats. They can be hurt. They can bleed. And perhaps, maybe, far off in the distant Future...they can die.
Last edited:
- Location
- Africa
the the tribes that would form the empire were there long before Sigmar was born in a time were the old world was covered in forests that had been left with no over site by the elves or the dwarfs on acount of the war of the beard which means the beast men infestation back then would have likely matched or exceeded the Drakwald that those tribes had some how manage to carve out land from the monsters to settle shows that the best men's iron grip can be severed
as for Sigmar and his purges to be fair to the guy the list of shit he had to deal with was frankly absurd he purged the green skins to the point it took them a thousand years to recover , he raided Norsica so hard that an ever chosen showed up to try stop him which he crushed as for Drakenfell in canon he came back after Magnus dealt with him a few hundred years later during the era of Karl Franz so its perfectly possible that Sigmar did deal with Drakenfells but he just came back to life a centuries later and in regards to Zacharius I have two theories the first is that after Sigmar kicked Nagash's ass Zacharius was so rightfully scared that he kept his head down and did every thing in his considerable power to stay low enough on Sigmar's shit list hoping that he would die of old age before his turn came , the other theory is that Sigmar's bloody campaigns had depleted the empire so much that by the time Zacharius's name came up on his shit list he was forced to wait until the population recovered enough for another major war by which point he ended up going on his long walk and the issue kept being delayed
in regards to the beast men question about the point in purging them .... its to keep them from being a threat to explain so long as the green moon comes new beast men will be created no matter what but so long as the beast men are consistently purged in such an effective and organized way that more beast men die every year than are created even if it takes years , decades or centuries the beast men as a faction will be rendered into a non entity no matter how powerful there heroes are whiteout armies they are no were near as dangerous as they could be and as the beast men numbers dim and the human population rises the lands they once stalked would be settled ,fortified and patrolled eventually reaching the point were there is no land left were beast men could form without running into a patrol of men not to soon after to cull them
as to your claim that the beast men are organized well to this I say that the beast men oppose order and organization in all thing on a fundamental level as a consequence of being creatures born of chaos examples of this are shown in there refusal to indulge in even basic construction unless an extremely power full beast lord is standing over there heads making it clear in no uncertain terms what his going to do to them if the don;t get to work and even then the best they can do are cartoonishly shity siege ladders and crappy chariots , another example is that when a beast lord gets injured in battle almost every other beast men leader under him will from some thing that resembles a line (if you squint at it)thinking they could challenge him for leadership due to his less than 100% state and if the winner of the fight looks weakened enough the disorganized sort of line will only get bigger so best men herds have a hobby of falling apart at the seems even when the win , the green skins and the Skaven have better claims to being organized , cohesive and unified than the beast men could ever be and my final examble comes from the table top were the best men army has a special rule were almost every unit can deploy via ambush but you have to roll for the unit to actually show up at the intended position on time and more often than not the unit will show up at either the wrong place and/or time and some times they wont show up at all does that look like an organized army to you
Last edited:
- Location
- The internet
Its also worth noting that the Empire has four great internal threats. Sylvania, The Forest of Shadows, the Middle Mountains and the Drakenwald. Slyvania is purged by fire and flame, The Forst of Shadows has lost its dark master, and the beastmen within are fighting a losing rearguard action to delay their destruction. The Middle Mountains are being settled. Dralenwald stands, yes, and it grows darker and more terrible with every day. But by and large it stands alone.*
The Great and Riekwald forests do exist, but I wouldn't but them in the same league for "corrupted hellscapes" as the above five. They could absolutely get that way, especially the great forest, but they aren't yet.
The Great and Riekwald forests do exist, but I wouldn't but them in the same league for "corrupted hellscapes" as the above five. They could absolutely get that way, especially the great forest, but they aren't yet.
RE: Orion, Immortal God-King of Athel Loren With Note On Lovely Laurelorn
Okay, so, here we go on this one.
Orion is, fundamentally, an inherently fractured being. He varies from year to year, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. You can generally expect him to be a sort of contemptuous big god-king sorta hunter guy, proud and wild, but naturalistic and noble in demeanor, but not always. The reason for this is that Orion is in an endless cycle of reincarnation. He is born in spring, and dies in winter, waxing towards midsummer before waning after it. It could rightly be said that Orion on the day that is the most exacting middle of the summer is one of the most powerful beings in general. But how does it manage this existence? The answer is, because of the yearly sacrifice. Every single year, a young prince of the Asrai is chosen by the Wild Riders, themselves somewhat otherworldly elves infused with a mite of divine purpose that are the guardians/close companions of Orion. They are infused by the spirit of Kurnous as well, and during the winter while Orion is dead, they are sentinels of the King's Glade (the biggest and most populace of the bough-cities of Athel Loren) with glowing eyes and are just generally spooky. All swear to sever all ties but to their King, becoming so alien in the course of their duties and changes that other Asrai barely even can dare speak to them.
Then, on the vernal equinox, the Wild Riders will select a young prince, one who it is hoped will fully embody the spirit of Kurnous and Orion. That guy is then lead up to the Oak of Ages where he is ritually given over to Ariel who sculpts his flesh and body anew into that which is Orion, infusing him with Kurnous' spirit at the same time. It is a ritual that takes the entire day and night, and on the first day of Spring, the god-king that is Orion emerges from the Oak of Ages newly formed. Then, most of the time, he blows the Horn of the Wild Hunt, a divine call that beseeches the wildness in every Asrai's heart, drawing them from all walks of life, and they go on a big hunt throughout Athel Loren and occasionally beyond.
Here's the thing, though. Each prince, each mind, is not consumed by the transformation. In fact, it just joins the chorus. Now, Orion and Ariel were enthroned by the Asrai in the year -1,124 IC. That is when the cycle began. So! Let's calculate that up until now. 2339 IC is the current year. That means that there are approximately 3,463 Elven Minds/Souls that are currently swirling around inside of Orion's head at any given time. But of course, there is another mind. A God's mind, in fact. Kurnous' mind. Or at least a significant portion of it. In the End Times it was said that Orion was full on just straight up Kurnous, but...well, I just don't know if I cop to that. They also said that Ariel was Isha herself, just gone insane, but they also say that Allarielle, and all the Everqueens who were alive while Ariel were there, were able to talk to Isha and summon her divine power and are also Avatars/Incarnates of Isha. So shouldn't Ariel have gone comatose or something as they drew on Her Godly Power, or even be able to acknowledge the Everqueens if that as true? Eugh, End Times. We'll divert that discussion into the pit of 'maybe later, maybe never'. So that's 2463 Elven Minds, plus 1 God's Mind. Well, actually, less than that, there was a good chunk of time there where Ariel refused to craft a new Orion, decades in fact, but I'm reasonably sure that it's still 2000+ minds/souls. So to keep it simple, let's say 2400, taking out 63 due to lack of incarnating. And even if not, more than two seems like a lot, doesn't it?
Now, it is said that each of the minds can talk/counsel/rage to the current Orion. But, that with each year that passes, the older voices grow more worn down/quiet as the chorus grows louder and more full. So, younger sacrifices = more active, older sacrifices = less active. Kurnous is supposedly capable of overriding the entire Orion meat-suit, but it is not something he does willy nilly. The other voices, even the oldest, are said to be able to admonish or advise Orion as much as they like though as whispers in his mind. It has been noted that whatever chunk of Kurnous that is involved has been worn down/eroded by the years of continually dying and then being reborn again, but that his power and wisdom remain strong beyond mortal reckoning. As such for all of the above, the sacrifice needs to be one of strong will to overcome all of those voices at once. Otherwise, very fractured mind who still has access to a lot of power. There's an entire event called 'The Madness of Orion' when he went totally nutso, shredding his way through Quenelles and sacking the city and such until what is suggested to be the Elven Goddess of the Mists Lileath herself calmed him down. Afterwards he felt so bad about what he did that he ran back to Athel Loren and demanded to be put on the pyre months way earlier than the normal winter.
So where does Anath Raema come in?
Well, the Goddess of the Savage Hunt wants Kurnous. Bad. Real bad. To the point that she is noted to not make any distinctions between Orion, as an Avatar of Kurnous, and Kurnous himself. She lusts for him like almost nothing else. Extremely jealous of Isha. It is noted that multiple times, AR has attempted to get a prince selected who is 'more attuned to her charms' than Ariel's. It is also noted that most of the time these attempts fail...but not all of them. The Asrai speak very little of those times, when Orion's heart is divided, only referring to them as 'The Dark Years' and pledge to try harder to make it not happen again in the future. But there's a plural there, meaning that there are at least a number of Elven Minds up in that collective that were more into Anath Raema than Isha/Ariel.
This time around, Anath Raema got closer than she ever has before. Ariel was severely wounded by her fight against Malagor and Morghur. So was the rest of Athel Loren. A lot of young guys were angry. Very angry. Anath Raema is a vengeful Goddess indeed, and some of them found succor in their furious continual hunts against the beastmen. And just look at these guys! Wow! So much killing of the beastmen! They exemplify Kurnous rage for their defilement (and definitely not Anath Raema)! Maybe some of these guys should be sacrificed to become Orion so that he can lead the Asrai into super good battle against the beastmen in revenge for destroying Cythral!
And maybe, some of these worshipers of the Savage Goddess focused on the beastmen, so there was nothing to worry about, and only glory and prestige gained.
And maybe, more than one got through the process and became Orion.
And maybe, with Ariel wounded and distracted as she's been, she did not notice.
And maybe, without descending herself because that would invite Asuryan's punishments, Anath Raema managed an Avatar like Kurnous, like Isha, and bade her the patience of a Huntress, an Avatar that this year made her way to the Old World.
And maybe, this time around, the freshest, most recent voices, were able to aid a very special young prince who had been raised by a noble family in Wydrioth, a High Realm noted for its bloodthirst. To the point that it is whispered that many worship Anath Raema in secret. Who had been blessed by a certain Goddess, and managed to get selected for the process by virtue of deeds of slaying just...just so many beastmen and otherwise being a strong and noble prince. Who became Orion.
As has been noted before, Orion is a fractured being. One year, he can be driven by such madness that only a Goddess could cure it, and filled with shame enough to burn himself upon his pyre before winter has even come. Another year, he is a wise and honorable king, heeding to tradition and veneration, the sanctity of hospitality and the hunt in tandem. Gregarious or taciturn, overeager or meticulous, Orion has been these and almost all at one time or another. The quote is thus: "Wise or mad, noble or haunted, each incarnation of Orion must end the same way; in the flames of the midwinter pyre." And, sometimes, he dies before the midwinter. Orion has had more good years than bad, this is true. But he has also had a lot of years in general.
This year? This year was a bad year. Machinations that culminated from various successes and failures on the part of multiple groups, from the Asrai, to the Beastmen, to even the Cult of Anath Raema. It culminated in an Orion that was thoroughly dedicated to Anath Raema, buoyed by a recent spat of voices that helped shore his mind up and shout down other, older voices. An Orion who was entranced by the arrival of the Avatar of Anath Raema, who unlike Orion who worships and gives heed to Kurnous, gave herself over fully. There was no dual voice going on in the Avatar's Head, the Drucchi who became her was utterly consumed, as befitting the more brutal and cruel nature of Anath Raema. That, then, is another divine presence affecting the soul/minds present.
So, how did Orion get so bad? Well, he's always been bad. And good. And between. It just depends on which of those is louder and more in control than others, depending on the year. On the full scale of it, mostly good, with a bit of middle, and fewer bad times that are all the more notable for their comparative rarity.
This year was the worst it's ever been, though.
Luckily, however, it didn't go the way Anath Raema would have liked. So...yeah.
Last edited:
@torroar every one of those events sounded interesting and amazing as heck, and like something I would love to hear about!
I would love to hear more about any of them in-character. Heck, maybe more stuff like the storytime Sadrina gave Frederick and Natasha on the way to the conference.
I realize we've also sometimes gotten interludes and such. Heck, sometimes they were even big ones! Evangeline's whole story.
... Oh, right. Skarloc. Apparently we have an international wood elf of mystery working for us. What has that guy done? Also also: I really want to see him reacting to the events that happened. Or maybe Frederick and him interacting. Maybe it's Frederick getting stories from him, or something? (Yeah okay no I guess that's not happening; it's not like Frederick and him are friends. He's just an employer for Skarloc.) But hopefully it'd be a positive reaction. I'd be sad if he reacted poorly to what Frederick did in Athel Loren.
The elves! Man, I really want to see more of Eldyra, Tyrion and Alarielle on-screen! Eldyra's awesome and a fan-favorite now. But Alarielle -- she's had a certain sort of... grace and majesty and and and earnestness around her when she's showed up and that I would love to see more of. (... I feel like I've used the word "earnestness" in connection to Alarielle before. Or maybe genuineness. Hm. Anyway. Felt familiar.) I want to see her doing good. Being a good person. Mending ties, helping people. It's kind of like seeing Thorgrim or Magnus in action a bit, you know? They're just... good, important, people who are trying.
And Naraiel, and Sunweaver, and Kyrion -- man, he just gives off such "Young son trying to be dutiful and uphold his duty to his parent, even if he has to grit his teeth and talk to people he doesn't like much" vibes! it's somehow endearing and precious, and man I'm making him sound diminutive when this guy's like over a century old isn't he or maybe many centuries old but I guess I can't help it; dutiful youth or dutiful heirs, all feel like they give off some similar sort of aura you know? -- and Morai-Wen.
Oh dang that's it, that's what was missing. Our griffon/gryphon/Oskana!
Frederick's actually gotten an improvement in killyness and survivability; he has a freaking Griffon now. I hope we get to see more of her in action. Next time, I hope we bring our griffon along so that when the next huge event hits, we can fight alongside our griffon.
(Thus far, we've only had the one major on-screen event with her; the battle of the Blood Fane. I realize that Frederick now rides her, and that he probably uses her during this yearly purges of the forests, but thus far the only major event on-screen was the Blood Fane. Heh.)GW canon in both warhammer fantasy and 40k is driven by profit,not any logical thinking.They want the universe to go one just to sell more.
So any canon information can be easily discarded.For example,for Bretonnia we learn that peasent are forbiden from leaving their village and get to keep only 10% of their whole recolt.Do the math.
So any canon information can be easily discarded.For example,for Bretonnia we learn that peasent are forbiden from leaving their village and get to keep only 10% of their whole recolt.Do the math.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's kind of funny in that making a believable, story-driven mythology for their gods, they invite problems from their greatest defense against Chaos.
RecurringExtra
Designated Background Character
- Location
- Out of Focus
I just want to say, @torroar, that I'm really thankful for the hard work you put into this quest. Right now I find myself having lost most of my interest in doing much of anything, but when I see this quest updated I still get that spark of excitement that I feel like I lost. I don't want to go on too much, since I'm not really contributing to the discussion here, just wanted to say thank you for giving me something that can cut through the haze of disinterest and frustration that's become the new normal in the past few months.
... Some context for you, BL in relation to Warhammer, is Black Library the primary publisher of Warhammer novels and has been around since 1997.I took me quite a moment to realize you weren't referring to Boys' Love novels here.
The fact that such an alternative usage of BL managed to establish itself within the Warhammer fandom says some depressing (imo) things about its demographics though...
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I wanted to muse on this a bit in a neutral way; I am broadly in agreement with you on the larger issue of NPC agency in this quest, which I think you've handled very well (e.g. by making both the rejected 'wife' candidates from the quest start into formidable women who did important things and had significant plot arcs of their own at some point, when it would have been perfectly normal for them to just sort of fade into irrelevance).
Your point about how Karak Ungor could reasonably be seen as Thorgrim's story with Frederick as a helpful helper...
It reminds me of the way we viewed, say, Roland d'Mousillon, who consistently fought at our side for much of the campaign and was generally cool and interesting and important but not... really the point of what was going on, from our perspective?
Or the way we've sort of adopted Eldyra as Cool Young Elf in the Laurelorn updates; she's the likeable and helpful secondary character who's definitely making herself useful, but she's not really the center of events.
Mmm, I'm not sure if I ever want to be in a place where I don't have any constructive criticism, even if it upsets me in the moment. I've gotten frustrated before with such things, but I feel like its natural to get that way when you've poured a lot of effort into something, but it generally doesn't last. My bad if my reactions as such are an issue, but I'd like to think that your previous two posts that you linked here helped me in my writing. Of course, maybe some people think that I didn't change enough or at all or whatever, but I certainly thought about the things you said.
Either way, thanks for reading and offering what you could, and I accept the reasoning behind your decision.
taovkool
Forever Gone
- Location
- The Library, Department of General Works
Oh great, a God with multiple personality disorder. Fan-freakin'-tastic. Why is there always something fucked up in every Warhammer God?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I mean, he'll have some voices in his head screaming at him to hate us for it, and also that he should dump Ariel and go date Savage Elf Hunt Goddess instead. But he'll also have like 2000 voices of varying age shouting "dammit, that's how we got our balls crisped and then wound up disemboweled by multiple flaming magic swords LAST time, seriously, just stick with Ariel, WAY less pain in the 'nads!"
...
You know, Orion actually reminds me a lot of a quest protagonist, in a way.
Evaunit02mark1
S-s-smell the Prey, S-s-start the Hunt.
Well I suspect most of them would want to keep their distance, you know with the whole "he set my dick on fucking fire" thing.
There's picking a fight and then there's choosing your battles, and if you don't have to fight the guy who set your genitalia on fire for his opening move you probably won't.