So, not feeling qualified to make any kind of guess about who the kid is. Instead, I'll pontificate on something nobody else seems to be talking about: Our clear lack of a Tactile Telekinesis equivalent, as seen in the serious issues we had moving the house without breaking it.

For the longest time, people would see Superman lift skyscrapers and the like and note that they should be crumbling under their own weight regardless of how strong he was. Eventually, it was revealed that he was using Tactile Telekinesis to essentially sheath anything he touched in a psychic field that let him treat it as one giant molecule, allowing him to ignore things like that.'

Now, I would be surprised if this was a crossover with most any kind of comic universe like Marvel/DC. Much like Bleach, the cosmology doesn't match up. However, there is a Superman expy that could work. She even has an Instant Wardrobe Shift that she normally triggers with a catchphrase, and can thus technically be treated as a Magical Girl. May I introduce the thread to Becky Botsford, aka, Wordgirl.

She is explicitly shown to have not only Tactile Telekinesis, but some form of anti-collateral damage power. As seen here, where the meteor's heat simply vanishes shortly before she makes contact with it. I suspect it's somewhat akin to Superman's heat vision. Really useful, but very, very draining relative to everything else. She's lifted much heavier things, but right after the meteor's heat vanishes, she's struggling with the weight. Given what happens here, I think she's training it up to match with her more extreme physical capabilities. Note how she explicitly states that she's achieved a new record, despite having stopped to grab a sombrero for her sidekick. Despite having flown fast enough that she's a measurable fractions of lightspeed(somewhere between 3% and 12.5%) she'd be more worried about causing nuclear detonations from forcing the air molecules together than setting the atmosphere on fire in her wake, though that would also be a concern. Instead, she just caused a few gusts of wind, which notably decrease in strength after the first time.

The thing is, she once grabbed a mind control ray set on the Moon(so the villain could hit everybody at once with it) and dumped it in a star(I'd post the video, but I can only find it on Dailymotion, it's Wordgirl Makes A Mistake Part 2 towards the end). Assuming that's still set in the Solar System(supposedly it is, but more on that later) that's a minimum of 100 times lightspeed if it took her 5 seconds(Earth is almost exactly 500 light seconds from the Sun on average) and 500 times if it took her a singular second. Considering the second clip, it seems pretty clear that the main reason she doesn't do that all the time is that she's got a pretty hard limit on how fast she can go without depopulating the planet, or turning it into forms of energy and matter that haven't been seen since the Big Bang, since we have no idea what even a hundred kilograms of matter moving even 10 times as fast as light would look like, but it seems a safe bet that it would make the Tsar Bomba look like a spark by comparison. That's more than enough to keep her relevant in the Space/Super Senshi stage.

This is assuming, of course, that it was in fact the Solar system and she hadn't moved further away because the villain clearly demonstrated the ability to get to the Moon pretty casually, and Becky had taken some serious hits to her ego(which she canonically has a problem with, presumably a byproduct of her ridiculously overwhelming power compared to everyone else) and might've just wanted to flex on him a little. The main point of evidence in favor is that WoG on the matter is that the green planet with rings that can be seen in the background is supposed to be Saturn. Given that they messed the rings up(Saturn has one band around the middle, there isn't one at either pole, nevermind both) I feel reasonably safe in ignoring that. The nearest gas giant around a singular yellow star is 35 lightyears away. Considering that one is more along the lines of Pluto's distance from the Sun than anything like the distance to look that big that close to it's parent star(another reason to take issue with that claim) it's probably even further out, and even that far would set her at something on the order of 220 million times the speed of light, assuming that's her maximum and not her taking a casual stroll without needing to worry about the planet being destroyed if she does.

You may wonder how she could possibly be challenged at this stage of the game. 1) she's 12, and arrogant as hell a lot of the time, though not undeservedly, 2) she has Superman's weakness to magic, which leaves her pretty vulnerable to a lot of weird villains and their powers, like The Butcher and his Meat Dimension, and is about as crippling as Superman's weakness to magic would be in a setting like this, as well as a Kryptonite expy in Lexonite, though her homeworld hasn't been blown up so it's not nearly as common as it is in Superman comics(side note, prolonged exposure will start punching holes in her vocabulary in addition to leaving her lying on the floor, so that's a thing), 3) much like Supes, she keeps the dial way down on her powers unless the situation warrants it most of the time, to avoid pasting anyone. Her anti-collateral ability seems to stop working if she's actually touching something, so, while she's apparently got a great deal of self-control, she still has to be careful of turning people into red mist. The going theory is that she struggles to modulate specific powers rather than a general 'so and so percent across the board' sort of deal, so she especially struggles against people who can hit outside their weight class for whatever reason(ie, Flash isn't particularly durable outside of Speed Force stunts, as is common to speedsters) not in terms of beating them in a fistfight, but in terms of not maiming or killing them in the process. She generally responds to a supercriminal by smashing any gadgets they're using for the episode, dumping them in jail, and leaving it at that, though she will snark at them. If they're not doing evil, she sometimes even rewards them.

So yeah, I think she'd get along with the Senshi. She might relate to Makoto having issues with bullet ricochet hurting people trying to hurt her. Not that specific scenario, perhaps, but definitely that sort of problem.
 
@Lunaryon

Here's part three:
Seems that she isn't the only one whose had that thought, either.
Should be "who has".

"It's not even the Amazons fault for giving Chen a mission he didn't understand.
Should be "Amazons'". And debatable.

the two need to keep there eyes a little more peeled,
Should be "their".

almost like he is looking somewhere far past her "You... know... me?"
Assuming this is the end of the sentence, there should be a period here.

"No." He whispers, "No, no. Don't." the words are small and fast.
Should be capitalized.

Terrifying in it's own way,
Should be "its".

The rumor is that there are people who seem to have lost everything, their minds and their wills, who just sit around, not even with the will to keep themselves clean. Nothing can rouse them, nothing can make the recognize the people they once called family. There is only one that makes them react. That name. Any of the people who have lost themselves who hear the name will panic for a moment, trying to flee the very sound of it, before they lose even that."
Should be "them".
Should be "one thing that".

letting her princess down from her arms. for a tiny moment,
Should be capitalized.

the confused look on both of the younger Senshi's face
Should be "looks".
Should be "Senshis' faces".

"I won't say anything. Seems that neither of them would get it anyways."
Added missing quotation marks.

What would happen if he could remember me."
Probably should be a question mark.

"If you go and heal everyone before hand,"
Should be "beforehand".

at the end of the Alley,
the Three gathered Senshi
Shouldn't be capitalized.

About half way down the trash ridden alley is a set of stairs,
Should be "halfway".

The Concrete beneath the girl's feet
shining over the Salaryman.
Across all of Japan, Temple bells ring of their own accord,
Their Princess Needs them.
shatters the Glimmering wall of magic
Shouldn't be capitalized.

All across the world Seers and Prophets, Oracles and Soothsayers give pause.
Probably shouldn't be capitalized, but for all I know these are supposed to be titles rather than professions.

slowly the man pulls out an, half smoked blunt.
Should be "a".

and Missy Moon realizes what is happening. grabbing hold of the cape,
He isn't rich, and he isn't poor.

the young man is, in nearly every perceivable way completely and totally ordinary.
Should be capitalized.

That's really there loss,
Should be "their".

All hell brakes loose
Should be "breaks".

The Far north stirs in it's slumber.
From context, this should be capitalized.

The Cosmos Shall be righted, and the undeserving cast from their thrones under the sands.

"Go.
This shouldn't be capitalized.
Added missing period.

Now Go, and do not return before you know if your guess be true."
This shouldn't be capitalized.

been powerful at it's root.
Should be "its".

It seems that ancient rulers plans for Russia will have to be accelerated.
Should be "ruler's".

The Lotus man asks with a sharp cackle.
Should be capitalized, as it seems to be a title.

Should be "its".

And... maybe Naru is seeing this new lifestyle at it's worst
Should be "its".

If it were a person,
that would be their butt, but that isn't how spiders work.
I think you pressed the Enter key here, as the formatting is off.

is because there on it's... butt,
Should be "its".

dealing with the Ono's. whose lead by someone who has magic, and understands the point of keeping secrets."
Should be "Who is" or "Who's".

"I doubt it." Says one of the other girls,
Added missing period.

doesn't mean that Everyone is a magical girl.
"everyone" shouldn't be capitalized.
Added missing "a".

"The last like week has been super busy, between Exams and everything else, so I wanted to come and relax." If anything, that statement almost makes Rei stumble, but the keeps her feet.
Added missing quotation marks.
Could be "she" or "the girl" or "the miko" or... I think you get the point.

She gives the kettle a bit of a shake, before putting it on the table.
I think this should be "thermos", unless Naru really did bring the kettle with her on a trip to the park.

girl's sternum. pushing back and away with a heavy coughing,
Should be capitalized.

the next time that the girl starts her pair of Kicks,
Shouldn't be capitalized.

You're bright nature is pulling Ami out of her shell,
Should be "Your".

You're their Princess now.They'd do
Should be a space after the period.

"What the hell have you Done?" she swears.
Shouldn't be capitalized.

I'll try to get part four out tomorrow.
 
How do you propose we investigate the Endymion/Mamoru situation when Usagi has no idea about that situation?
Plan Two (investigate Endymion as a candidate for 'Bad Hat Man') proceeds in synergistic parallel with Plan One (investigate Ghost Boy).

We investigate Ghost Boy to gain information about who he thinks he is. If he says "Mamoru Chiba," well, that's a dead giveaway right there. If he doesn't, we may still learn clues- any clues, but we should particularly try to leverage clues that point to Endymion because we can do something with those right away, we have the guy on speed-dial.

Meanwhile, we make a deliberate OOC decision to get Usagi a bit closer to Endymion in terms of actually meeting him and talking to him. Who knows? Maybe if we open up to him, he'll volunteer the information that he's actually Endymion and not the modern-day Mamoru. Or Jadeite may say something that gives the game away because Endymion never told him not to and Jadeite sees no reason why it would be a problem. Or maybe we find out about the car accident and ask what hospital 'Mamoru' was taken to afterwards out of curiosity or he volunteers that information, and holy shit it's the same one that is weird.

Or who knows what all. I've got no idea.

The point is that if we want to resolve this, it makes good sense for us to put ourselves into multiple opportunities to find a lead on the case from different directions. And thus, it makes good sense for us to try to pursue this case from both of the known directions. If a third known direction (that is, a second candidate for who 'Bad Hat Man' might be) arises, then I'll recommend pursuing the case from that direction, too!

When you want to dig a tunnel through a mountain, you don't start from one end and dig through to the other. You start from both ends, and you dig together to meet in the middle. It's faster and more effective that way, if you're a good enough engineer.

Consider: Why would Endymion not tell Jadeite, the first person he could confide in about this situation in over a decade? One of his best friends, returned from the dead who can understand what he has gone through.

There is zero reason to lie after all. So why assume he did?
Alternate interpretation:

Endymion likes Jadeite in that conversation and presumably wants to trust him. Endymion clearly trusts Jadeite not to murder him in his sleep. Endymion also, very importantly, trusts Jadeite not to go running off to Beryl with the knowledge "Dread Queen, Endymion is alive and reincarnated into an attractive young body and I know his home address and we could totally have him here bound hand and foot and at your mercy in like a few hours if you just give the nod and forgive me for getting my ass kicked by the Senshi insofar as that was my fault."

(Bad End from the perspective of Endymion Quest!)

But.

Endymion doesn't know all that has changed about Jadeite. He's seen aspects of Jadeite's personality that are strange and unfamiliar. He knows Jadeite is still clearly under lingering mind control weirdness. He may be withholding certain information that he thinks might muddy the waters, or confuse things, or who knows what all.

At least at first- remember, we know what Endymion said to Jadeite then, in that conversation, but that was like... what, three or four weeks ago?

So, not feeling qualified to make any kind of guess about who the kid is. Instead, I'll pontificate on something nobody else seems to be talking about: Our clear lack of a Tactile Telekinesis equivalent, as seen in the serious issues we had moving the house without breaking it.
Well, it's kind of unremarkable. I mean, why should we have tactile telekinesis?

On the other hand, as Makoto gets more sophisticated about her gravity control, she'll probably be able to levitate large masses, or work out a "do you even lift" spell where she uses a zone of gravity manipulation to take away some arbitrarily large fraction of a structure's mass, leaving it with just enough that it's in no danger of spontaneously floating away and can be easily girlhandled by any (moderately superhumanly strong) individual.

Actually that sounds like a GREAT idea for a utility spell for Makoto, @Lunaryon ! Would have come in really handy here, and this probably won't be the first time a Senshi is tempted to try something like "pick up a bus" or "pick up a house" that would normally be impossible because the structure would crumble around her.
 
Plan Two (investigate Endymion as a candidate for 'Bad Hat Man') proceeds in synergistic parallel with Plan One (investigate Ghost Boy).

We investigate Ghost Boy to gain information about who he thinks he is. If he says "Mamoru Chiba," well, that's a dead giveaway right there. If he doesn't, we may still learn clues- any clues, but we should particularly try to leverage clues that point to Endymion because we can do something with those right away, we have the guy on speed-dial.

So, other than investigating the Ghost Boy (which is an obvious move) do you not see the problem with the part I bolded and underlined?

You want to start from a conclusion and look for evidence to support that conclusion. In fact, you want to specifically dig for evidence that points to the conclusion you want. This is 100% the problem I want to avoid. Because then we give more weight to clues that support our forgone conclusion and then less weight to clues that go against our conclusion.

It is far far better policy to admit we don't know, and look for any clues pointing towards a suspect, rather than digging with an eye to convicting someone we suspect to be guilty. And I really hope I don't need to explain why that is.

Meanwhile, we make a deliberate OOC decision to get Usagi a bit closer to Endymion in terms of actually meeting him and talking to him. Who knows? Maybe if we open up to him, he'll volunteer the information that he's actually Endymion and not the modern-day Mamoru. Or Jadeite may say something that gives the game away because Endymion never told him not to and Jadeite sees no reason why it would be a problem. Or maybe we find out about the car accident and ask what hospital 'Mamoru' was taken to afterwards out of curiosity or he volunteers that information, and holy shit it's the same one that is weird.


I'm going to be quite sad if the reason that finally gets us closer to our ally and former soul mate is to investigate him for potentially ruining a kid's life. I tried last turn vote to get us to connect to Endymion and the basic response from the thread was "we don't owe him anything, we aren't Serenity, if he wants to talk he needs to come to us not have us use an action". If it is now suddenly a priority to learn about him and get close so we can fulfill this idea of him being the "villain" of this kid... That just is very depressing to me. It would indicate that the thread has no interest in Tuxedo Mask outside of him being a business associate and possible bad guy.


The point is that if we want to resolve this, it makes good sense for us to put ourselves into multiple opportunities to find a lead on the case from different directions. And thus, it makes good sense for us to try to pursue this case from both of the known directions. If a third known direction (that is, a second candidate for who 'Bad Hat Man' might be) arises, then I'll recommend pursuing the case from that direction, too!

When you want to dig a tunnel through a mountain, you don't start from one end and dig through to the other. You start from both ends, and you dig together to meet in the middle. It's faster and more effective that way, if you're a good enough engineer.

But if one person starts digging at 5 degrees left and the other person starts digging at five degrees of THEIR left... then you pass by each other and just dig two tunnels through the mountain. Also, this isn't digging through a mountain, this is a criminal investigation, and while not dismissing clues is good, jumping to conclusions is bad. And this is a massive leap in logic.


But.

Endymion doesn't know all that has changed about Jadeite. He's seen aspects of Jadeite's personality that are strange and unfamiliar. He knows Jadeite is still clearly under lingering mind control weirdness. He may be withholding certain information that he thinks might muddy the waters, or confuse things, or who knows what all.

At least at first- remember, we know what Endymion said to Jadeite then, in that conversation, but that was like... what, three or four weeks ago?

But you aren't following this up. You are stating he might not have told him because it might confuse things or muddy the waters. However, things were confused. Remember how this came up in that conversation? Jadeite was asking if Serenity was in control of Usagi, and then he asked how Endymion was different from Serenity. For you to be correct that Endymion was withholding information then that means a single thing. Endymion lied.

Now, is he capable of lying? Of course he is. However, think about the context. You are talking to your old best friend, a best friend who has been under mind control, is paranoid, and has been lied to for millenia, and is seeking reasons to hate and distrust the former love of your life. Why would you EVER think that lying to him about a key and fundamental part of the information he needs to trust another party would be a good thing? Endymion is a PRINCE he was trained in the arts of diplomacy, he knows how devastating a lie like that could be and the kind of rift it could form.

Additionally you have to ask, especially considering that, WHY would he lie? "Q: What makes you different from the Princess? A: I was in a car accident and hit my head, the trauma shuffled the voice of this body into the back of my mind. I've tried to find a way to balance us, but it has proven impossible" Is a perfectly fine situation. Maybe it causes Jadeite to be slightly more suspicious of Sailor Moon, but if he EVER figured out Endymion was lying it would destroy any trust built between them. And there are only two reasons I can think of to justify that.

1) Sacrificing his friendship for the sake of Sailor Moon... who clearly doesn't need the help considering that she and her team whupped Jadeite hard.

2) He is trying to hide the existence of Mamoru.

#1 is nonsense to me, it risks losing one of his best friends for nothing but vapid short term gains. Completely out of character. And for #2... the only way that makes sense to me is if he knows about Mamoru and is actively suppressing him. Which makes him a villain. And, would Serenity have fallen for a man who would consign a six-year old to death for his own survival? Because, again, Endymion had no real idea that the Princess or the Sailor Scouts or anyone was going to be coming back. He would have had to be suppressing Mamoru for over a decade purely to extend his own existence. Which again, is completely out of character.

It isn't enough to simply state that Endymion might have lied to Jadeite, you have to follow that up with WHY he would lie to Jadeite. Lies accomplish things, and this accomplishes nothing that seems worth what it risks. Not unless Endymion isn't worthy of being the romantic partner of Sailor Moon, which we have Word of God isn't the case. He is a viable candidate which means he can't be actively harming a child.
 
For all we know Endymion is an unreliable narrator who actually is Mamoru, but thinks he's 100% his past life due to the trauma of the accident and gaining access to his old memories. Unless the GM has stated something that makes that impossible.
 
Fun fact: Usagi already decided to ask the hospital's Director about the little boy, so we'll know if he's a ghost or not really darn soon, making this whole Mamoru ghost boy discussion moot.

And I'm sorry if my joke about a memory ghost helped this to spiral out of control, but dang.
 
Look, Ghost Boy just needs to collect the souls of fifteen legendary figures, then he'll be able to wish on the Holy Grail to come back to life.:V
 
@Lunaryon
So, here is part four of the error-collecting.
Then there is Michiru and Haruka,,,
Should be periods instead of commas.

Her movements match the speed of the creatures at there fastest,
Should be "their".

it draws it's fist back, before pulling back, winding it's fist like a windmill,
Should be "its".

Sailor Mercury has already cross half the distance between them
Should be "crossed".

Should be "its".

"Mrs... Ramua." She mutters out.
Added missing period.

With a roar, the beast lifts it's sword,
Should be "its".

leaving the beast sitting there is a crumpled hole it's own shape.
Should be "in".
Should be "of its".

stuggling to breath as even more
Should be "struggling".

churning clock sounding shadows block the girl from sight.
This would read better as "churning, clock-sounding shadows".

lashing out with it's claws.
it has at it's opponent,
and use any of it's more powerful abilities, but time and again it's best attempts
Should be "its".

until the edge of her lips was literally touching her ears.
Not actually an error, but man that's a disturbing image.

shaking it's fur to try and dry itself.
with the fact that it's legs are all made
Should be "its".

You are in a mood for a Fight?"
Shouldn't be capitalized.

drawing it's half-cane, half-sword over it's head
demon nearly loses hold of it's footing.
even when at it's best
already dying under it's own power
Should be "its".

has opened the package of Popcorn
Shouldn't be capitalized.

infect her with it's power,
Should be "its".

the Moon. we need to go to the Moon at some point.
Should be capitalized.

"When is the last time that you slept in, or just spent hours doing nothing."
Should be a question mark.

Ikuko Tsukino's attention it bound up
Should be "is".

and scratches in wood when she tried to sweep,
Should probably be "and left scratches".

nearly perfectly clean kitchen has been turned into a mess of blow about chaos.
I think you were aiming for something more like "a mess of blown-about chaos".

Saying it out lout would make it real in a way that it just hasn't been up till now.
Should be "loud".

All together the combined efforts of the four
This tripped me up a bit, as it isn't implied until several paragraphs later that Naru had showed up with Usagi.

Thankfully, what comes Naturally to Usagi
Shouldn't be capitalized.

One thing I've noticed about your writing style is that you have a tendency to split apart words (such as "nowhere" into "no where", "beforehand" into "before hand", "halfway" into "half way", etc.), as well as a tendency to eschew hyphens. For the most part I haven't marked the latter as errors, as I have a tendency to overuse hyphens, and as such I'm unsure whether or not I'm just injecting my own bias.

Anyways, part five coming soon.
 
So, other than investigating the Ghost Boy (which is an obvious move) do you not see the problem with the part I bolded and underlined?

You want to start from a conclusion and look for evidence to support that conclusion. In fact, you want to specifically dig for evidence that points to the conclusion you want. This is 100% the problem I want to avoid. Because then we give more weight to clues that support our forgone conclusion and then less weight to clues that go against our conclusion.
There is, in practice, a balance to be struck.

If in our desire for neutrality, we investigate no possibilities until we have some external reason to be sure we know what's going on, we never solve the mystery unless providence drops a complete solution to it practically into our laps.

If in our desire for a swift conclusion, we investigate only one possibility, rejecting the idea of any other one being correct, then unless we guessed very well up front, we will quickly wind up baring up the wrong tree and making mistakes.

But I would argue that we are not such fools that we need to be fearful of this second scenario. I do not think it is likely that just because we ARE considering and discussing one interesting and plausible hypothesis that happens to be the only clue we have, we are in any real, relevant danger of ignoring the possibility of another, entirely unknown candidate being the true one.

...

One of the great fallacies of quest thread debating is of the form:

"Aha, the majority have all started talking eagerly about X! But wait, this discussion of X isn't creating a sufficiency of discussion of Y and Z! Clearly, the only possible reason for this that everyone is turning into a bunch of mindless bandwagon enthusiasts! I must heroically turn the stampede and tell everyone to stop thinking about X!"

This fallacy caters to the desire to be the bold intellectual, the one who sees what the crowd does not and remembers things the crowd has forgotten. But it has its roots in abandoning mindfulness of human nature, in favor of the heroic narrative of "I am the smartest person in the room, the one who sees what you silly people do not."

...

When a bunch of nerds on the Internet talk, sometimes they seize on a specific topic and discuss it in depth for a period of time. It is natural behavior for groups of nerds on the Internet.

Being mindful of human nature, this is simply people existing, not evidence that the single topic they happen to be talking about is something they are dangerously obsessed with and monofocused on.

Being mindful of human nature, there is no cause to conclude that they are in danger of neglecting other considerations to the point of disaster that "needs" to be interrupted or corrected.

...

People will discuss the only hypothesis that has yet occurred to anyone and which has any degree of plausibility. This is fine; they do not need to make constant ritual genuflections in the direction of the sacred altar of neutrality. Wait until someone actually thinks of a plausible alternative, or finds concrete evidence against the existing hypothesis. Then worry about whether people are too focused on the first hypothesis to be capable of considering a second.

I'm going to be quite sad if the reason that finally gets us closer to our ally and former soul mate is to investigate him for potentially ruining a kid's life. I tried last turn vote to get us to connect to Endymion and the basic response from the thread was "we don't owe him anything, we aren't Serenity, if he wants to talk he needs to come to us not have us use an action".
Now, my own perception is that the thread consensus has shifted somewhat, as we've become more aware that Endymion has a complex thing going on, something I think we sort of stopped really fully noticing during the last few events of the previous turn. But I could be wrong.

On the other hand, I should note that each turn is big. There are many things that will be different next turn as compared to this turn. We may be on a generalized "dig into old memories" kick and feel more inclined to interact with Endymion to compare notes. We may be genuinely curious as to how Jadeite and Ramua are faring, more so than we were in the immediate aftermath of our visit to Kibougahana, and more so now that we have fought alongside Jadeite in battle, a thing that would have seemed unthinkable an in-character month ago.

There are, and will be, many motives for why we might wish to speak to Endymion, not just one. I would have spoken for it anyway, so I think it oversimplifies the case for you to respond to "we should keep an eye out for clues that suggest this ghostly boy is Mamoru" with "it would be sad if this was the only reason we express interest in Endymion."

Yes, that would hypothetically be sad if that was all we cared about.

I don't think it is, or will be.

And if there is some realistic, plausible chance that we have an old, accidental wrong to put right?

There are worse reasons to change the way you approach someone in order to bring them closer to yourself.

But you aren't following this up. You are stating he might not have told him because it might confuse things or muddy the waters. However, things were confused. Remember how this came up in that conversation? Jadeite was asking if Serenity was in control of Usagi, and then he asked how Endymion was different from Serenity. For you to be correct that Endymion was withholding information then that means a single thing. Endymion lied.

Now, is he capable of lying? Of course he is. However, think about the context. You are talking to your old best friend, a best friend who has been under mind control, is paranoid, and has been lied to for millenia, and is seeking reasons to hate and distrust the former love of your life. Why would you EVER think that lying to him about a key and fundamental part of the information he needs to trust another party would be a good thing? Endymion is a PRINCE he was trained in the arts of diplomacy, he knows how devastating a lie like that could be and the kind of rift it could form.
Other possibilities also exist.

For instance, Endymion may not actually have conscious awareness that Mamoru is in there- we should not take it as axiomatic that he would know.

If you conclude "of course he would know, how could he not when he is wise and powerful," then you jump to a lot of conclusions about how immune powerful people are to foibles and willful blindness. Given that this is a story where an entire advanced precursor civilization collapsed into mass slaughter and total annihilation because one woman got a stalker-crush and couldn't deal with it in an adult manner... That, itself, might be jumping to conclusions even more aggressively than "I suspect the ghost-boy might be Mamoru" would be.

Endymion might be giving Jadeite good-faith information that is inaccurate.

Endymion may not be aware of Mamoru's presence. It's not automatic that he would be. Perhaps Mamoru's lack of magical prowess makes his presence so weak that it is harder to feel, even for an adept.

Or, being human, Endymion may have mistaken tiny weak promptings and troubled dreams from Mamoru's very subtle voice for his own troubled subconscious, because he's a man who understandably feels guilt at having "taken" the life of this boy, even if such guilt is irrational.

Hell, ghost-Mamoru could be a subconscious psychic projection of that guilt, just as Moonlight Knight was a subconscious psychic projection of Mamoru Chiba's desire to protect Usagi Tsukino.

Endymion might be shading the truth, in a way that he does not think will substantially hurt Jadeite's trust. Maybe if Endymion says "well, the shade of Mamoru DOES periodically whisper in my dreams, but I am firmly in control now, and there doesn't seem to be any middle ground of shared control, and Serenity clearly isn't the one running Usagi's body, so yeah, that's not her" at some later date, he expects that Jadeite will forgive and understand Endymion's failure to discuss a sensitive subject in full candor. Maybe Jadeite will forgive and understand, because they actually are friends, and your real friends sometimes do forgive you for misleading them in ways that ultimately weren't likely to cause harm, if you had a relatable reason for doing so and it was a hard subject to talk frankly about.

Maybe Endymion is making a serious mistake and lying about having a problem to avoid confusing or inconveniencing his relationship with a friend, as people do sometimes, while failing to full-rationally consider that this might disrupt the friendship down the line. Japanese culture is rife with fictional motifs of people hiding a problem until something bad happens, because this is itself a big problem in Japanese society. While Endymion is not, in this significant sense, actually Japanese, it would be a very plausible storyline to see worked in here.

...

So when you ask, "why would Endymion sacrifice his friendship by lying to Jadeite," you glide past a lot of other possibilities. Maybe he doesn't know that he is saying anything false. Maybe he doesn't think that shading the truth in this situation would sacrifice the friendship in the first place. Maybe he's a man with his own demons and problems who makes bad judgment calls sometimes. All are possible, and all are things that can happen to someone who is worthy of love.
 
There is, in practice, a balance to be struck.

If in our desire for neutrality, we investigate no possibilities until we have some external reason to be sure we know what's going on, we never solve the mystery unless providence drops a complete solution to it practically into our laps.

If in our desire for a swift conclusion, we investigate only one possibility, rejecting the idea of any other one being correct, then unless we guessed very well up front, we will quickly wind up baring up the wrong tree and making mistakes.

But I would argue that we are not such fools that we need to be fearful of this second scenario. I do not think it is likely that just because we ARE considering and discussing one interesting and plausible hypothesis that happens to be the only clue we have, we are in any real, relevant danger of ignoring the possibility of another, entirely unknown candidate being the true one.

Have I ever suggested we investigate zero possibilities? No. In fact, I have repeatedly stated that we should keep an open mind and not get fixated on a single possibility. That doesn't mean investigating zero. That doesn't mean investigating one. That means investigating. Starting with something pretty simple... figuring out the kids name.

But I am curious. You say this is a plausible hypothesis. Let us not focus on if it is possible, let's focus on something else. What makes you think this 6 year old boy is Mamoru Chiba? What evidence makes that conclusion plausible? Don't lay out the case of how Endymion could make this possible, lay out the case and all the evidence for this boy being Mamoru Chiba.

Edit: Oh, forgot this before. Can you include any and all evidence that the boy we spoke to is a ghost? You've been referring to him as the "ghost boy" and I'm just curious how you know that he is a ghost and not... a flesh and blood child.


One of the great fallacies of quest thread debating is of the form:

"Aha, the majority have all started talking eagerly about X! But wait, this discussion of X isn't creating a sufficiency of discussion of Y and Z! Clearly, the only possible reason for this that everyone is turning into a bunch of mindless bandwagon enthusiasts! I must heroically turn the stampede and tell everyone to stop thinking about X!"

This fallacy caters to the desire to be the bold intellectual, the one who sees what the crowd does not and remembers things the crowd has forgotten. But it has its roots in abandoning mindfulness of human nature, in favor of the heroic narrative of "I am the smartest person in the room, the one who sees what you silly people do not."

You sure do love putting words in my mouth to make me sound like a megalomaniacal egoist. It must be interesting to be so clear-sighted to automatically see how I am always making fallacies, how I must always be falling for common traps on the internet. Of course, it helps that I'm constantly calling people fools and bandwagon enthusiasts, that I am constantly praising my own intellect...

Oh. Wait. I don't do that. Huh. Out of curiosity, are you familiar with the Ad Hominem Fallacy? It is where someone attacks the person making the argument instead of addressing their argument. Something to think about.


When a bunch of nerds on the Internet talk, sometimes they seize on a specific topic and discuss it in depth for a period of time. It is natural behavior for groups of nerds on the Internet.

Being mindful of human nature, this is simply people existing, not evidence that the single topic they happen to be talking about is something they are dangerously obsessed with and monofocused on.

Being mindful of human nature, there is no cause to conclude that they are in danger of neglecting other considerations to the point of disaster that "needs" to be interrupted or corrected.

Maybe it doesn't need to be interrupted. But does that mean I'm wrong to posit other theories? Is it wrong to discuss the topic, not in terms of supporting it, but in terms of poking holes in it?

You seem to be very invested in telling me I'm wrong to be pointing out the flaws in this theory. And you are much more invested in moralizing at me about how I'm so wrong rather than... discussing the topic?



Now, my own perception is that the thread consensus has shifted somewhat, as we've become more aware that Endymion has a complex thing going on, something I think we sort of stopped really fully noticing during the last few events of the previous turn. But I could be wrong.

On the other hand, I should note that each turn is big. There are many things that will be different next turn as compared to this turn. We may be on a generalized "dig into old memories" kick and feel more inclined to interact with Endymion to compare notes. We may be genuinely curious as to how Jadeite and Ramua are faring, more so than we were in the immediate aftermath of our visit to Kibougahana, and more so now that we have fought alongside Jadeite in battle, a thing that would have seemed unthinkable an in-character month ago.

There are, and will be, many motives for why we might wish to speak to Endymion, not just one. I would have spoken for it anyway, so I think it oversimplifies the case for you to respond to "we should keep an eye out for clues that suggest this ghostly boy is Mamoru" with "it would be sad if this was the only reason we express interest in Endymion."

Yes, that would hypothetically be sad if that was all we cared about.

I don't think it is, or will be.

And if there is some realistic, plausible chance that we have an old, accidental wrong to put right?

There are worse reasons to change the way you approach someone in order to bring them closer to yourself.

And yet, the first time we've discussed this in the last two turns? It has been for this reason. In fact, it was your proposal to get closer to him for the purpose of finding evidence. Maybe that won't be why we end up finally talking to Endymion. But I believe I am allowed to be disappointed in how this has been turning out.

But, you know, feel free to continue explaining to someone who has spent the last six months active on this thread how long the turns are and how things work. As a Quest Master myself who has been running quests for two years, I'm sure I have no idea. And I'd love to give you the benefit of the doubt about why you are talking down to me as though I don't understand people or discussions or forums. But really, I've had this song and dance too many times with you.

I'd give it... two more posts? Then someone is going to complain about how me and you are fighting and killing the conversation, because I've had to stop and instead of discussing the boy, I'm defending myself and explaining that yes, I do understand that over a few months the perception of the thread can shift and change. Just like the last five times I've said something that contradicted either you or Valmond.




Other possibilities also exist.

For instance, Endymion may not actually have conscious awareness that Mamoru is in there- we should not take it as axiomatic that he would know.

If you conclude "of course he would know, how could he not when he is wise and powerful," then you jump to a lot of conclusions about how immune powerful people are to foibles and willful blindness. Given that this is a story where an entire advanced precursor civilization collapsed into mass slaughter and total annihilation because one woman got a stalker-crush and couldn't deal with it in an adult manner... That, itself, might be jumping to conclusions even more aggressively than "I suspect the ghost-boy might be Mamoru" would be.

Endymion might be giving Jadeite good-faith information that is inaccurate.

Endymion may not be aware of Mamoru's presence. It's not automatic that he would be. Perhaps Mamoru's lack of magical prowess makes his presence so weak that it is harder to feel, even for an adept.

Or, being human, Endymion may have mistaken tiny weak promptings and troubled dreams from Mamoru's very subtle voice for his own troubled subconscious, because he's a man who understandably feels guilt at having "taken" the life of this boy, even if such guilt is irrational.

Hell, ghost-Mamoru could be a subconscious psychic projection of that guilt, just as Moonlight Knight was a subconscious psychic projection of Mamoru Chiba's desire to protect Usagi Tsukino.

Endymion might be shading the truth, in a way that he does not think will substantially hurt Jadeite's trust. Maybe if Endymion says "well, the shade of Mamoru DOES periodically whisper in my dreams, but I am firmly in control now, and there doesn't seem to be any middle ground of shared control, and Serenity clearly isn't the one running Usagi's body, so yeah, that's not her" at some later date, he expects that Jadeite will forgive and understand Endymion's failure to discuss a sensitive subject in full candor. Maybe Jadeite will forgive and understand, because they actually are friends, and your real friends sometimes do forgive you for misleading them in ways that ultimately weren't likely to cause harm, if you had a relatable reason for doing so and it was a hard subject to talk frankly about.

Maybe Endymion is making a serious mistake and lying about having a problem to avoid confusing or inconveniencing his relationship with a friend, as people do sometimes, while failing to full-rationally consider that this might disrupt the friendship down the line. Japanese culture is rife with fictional motifs of people hiding a problem until something bad happens, because this is itself a big problem in Japanese society. While Endymion is not, in this significant sense, actually Japanese, it would be a very plausible storyline to see worked in here.

...

So when you ask, "why would Endymion sacrifice his friendship by lying to Jadeite," you glide past a lot of other possibilities. Maybe he doesn't know that he is saying anything false. Maybe he doesn't think that shading the truth in this situation would sacrifice the friendship in the first place. Maybe he's a man with his own demons and problems who makes bad judgment calls sometimes. All are possible, and all are things that can happen to someone who is worthy of love.

1) Yes, I know Endymion might not be aware. I've acknowledged that as a possibility. However, I've also acknowledged if anyone could possibly notice a subconcious voice in his head, it would be the potentially multi-century psychic sorcerer who was trained to use his psychic powers and was himself a subconcious voice in the head of someone else.

1a) This is not to say that it is impossible he could be unaware, but as evidence goes towards pointing out the likelihood of an action, I consider this a fair point to make. Just like I would say it would be fair to point out that a math expert would very likely be able to solve a complex math problem. Maybe they can't, there are certainly math problems that experts devote their entire lives to failing to solve, but as a general rule of thumb? It is a fair point.

2) Reading through most of these, and I can't say most of them are impossible. Whether or not they are likely is a completely different matter, but one stood out. "Hell, ghost-Mamoru could be a subconscious psychic projection of that guilt, just as Moonlight Knight was a subconscious psychic projection of Mamoru Chiba's desire to protect Usagi Tsukino." And, again, I do this a lot and I know it must annoy some people, but let's take a second for a Doylist breakdown. For this to be the case, not only does this have to be a psychic ghost boy that Usagi has made a promise to to stop Tuxedo Mask and restore him and his family, BUT it has to be a fakeout while the real truth is the psychic ghost boy is just a projection of a guilty concious with no real animus behind it and the entire end goal would be for Usagi to find out about Mamoru's death, figure out that he is really dead somehow and not actually alive inside Endymion's subconcious, and then comfort Endymion, who she doesn't yet know, about how a horrible tragedy wasn't his fault... over a decade later.

If we were going to have a scene where the entire purpose was for Sailor Moon to tell Endymion to forgive himself for tragedies outside of his ability to stop... wouldn't it make far more sense to make that about his guilt over the death of himself, Serenity, and the destruction of their entire civilization? A far more horrendous tragedy that he could easily blame himself for an ties directly into personal harm against Serenity, who will forgive him anyways? That is a much more impactful and thematically clean scene that would also arise from Usagi and Endymion getting to know each other better. And, Lunaryon hasn't had much chance to write a lot of the plot they have planned, but they seem to be far less inclined to do the sort of twisted and complicated plot of red herring psychic ghost boys.

3) Yes, I did decide that it seemed unlikely Endymion lied to Jadeite and doesn't think it will negatively affect their friendship. It is such a huge lie, to someone who would absolutely be obviously affected by it, and it seems unreasonable. Plus, frankly, if we assume that he lied, why not assume that he actually is Mamoru Chiba and just is delusional from brain damage and thinks he is Endymion? That is also possible. What if he is actually an evil clone created by one of the dark factions? That is also possible.

But, this was a huge reveal when it happened. This was a break from canon in a major way. We have no reason to think he has lied, no evidence pointing to the fact that he lied, so if we lack evidence either way, why not assume he is telling the truth? And if we have no evidence between "this is actually the truth" and "this is only the truth as he knows it" when getting a backstory lore dump... why not assume it is actually the truth?

Because, again, I want to look at the evidence. Evidence helps us see what is likely and what is not. I can say that the Borg are likely not involved, even though it is totally a possibility, because there is no evidence of their existence. What is the evidence that this boy is Mamoru Chiba?

He is six years old
He knows Sailor Moon's name.
He mentioned a "Bad Hat Man" and Tuxedo Mask wears a hat.

That's it. That is the sum total of all of your evidence. To show how utterly weak this evidence is, let's go with this possibility.

The boy is an illusion crafted by Zoisite. Zoisite has been sent infiltrate and begin tearing down the scouts and learned of their connection with the leader of the Pretty Cures, Tuxedo Mask. She knows that Sailor Moon likes to be a hero after the Night Market raid, so she made a little boy and is planning turning Sailor Moon against Tuxedo Mask and breaking up the alliance between the scouts and the Pretty Cures to begin the process of isolating them to make them easier to take out one at a time. Knowing Sailor Moon's name was a clue to hint to us that this wasn't a real little boy, and was actually a trap for the Sailor Scout.

Same evidence. Completely plausible given the information we have.
 
Continuing to look at the Senshi as if she had done something horrible, the woman picks up the phone on her side of the desk, quickly tapping out a handful of numbers before bringing the receiver up to her face. "Director." the woman says, immediately all the frostiness of her tone is gone as she smiles into the phone, "There is a woman here to see you. Says her name is... Sailor Moon? She says that she's here to go and give that poor girl more false hope."

When I first was reading this, I was thinking that the receptionist was angry that we were so late. I hope we get to see the look on her face when she learns that we actually managed to cure Nodoka.
 
The boy is an illusion crafted by Zoisite. Zoisite has been sent infiltrate and begin tearing down the scouts and learned of their connection with the leader of the Pretty Cures, Tuxedo Mask. She knows that Sailor Moon likes to be a hero after the Night Market raid, so she made a little boy and is planning turning Sailor Moon against Tuxedo Mask and breaking up the alliance between the scouts and the Pretty Cures to begin the process of isolating them to make them easier to take out one at a time. Knowing Sailor Moon's name was a clue to hint to us that this wasn't a real little boy, and was actually a trap for the Sailor Scout.
I thought Zoisite is male in this quest? Or has the gender been changed to match the DiC dub?
 
I thought Zoisite is male in this quest? Or has the gender been changed to match the DiC dub?
I might be remembering wrong but Zoisite presented as male when met way back at the bakery, though also was mentioned as having had a relationship with Endymion's father while presenting as female. So personally I'm thinking genderfluid.
 
When I first was reading this, I was thinking that the receptionist was angry that we were so late. I hope we get to see the look on her face when she learns that we actually managed to cure Nodoka.
I'm not 100% sure any of our current spells would work fully actually. Eviller Parad who's name I can't quite remember isn't really falling under most of the use cases from what I understand apart from maybe MHE's reversion effect, he's just camping out in the body pumping out his illness.

(Which would, presumably, mean Sailor Moon Sparkly Magic Bullshits a spell out of her ass to seperate them.)
 
Well, depending on how exactly things work, Sailor Moon has healing, possession removal, and mind control removal. She can probably fix things somehow. But it might take multiple attempts to figure out exactly what counts as the correct cure.
 
1) Yes, I know Endymion might not be aware. I've acknowledged that as a possibility. However, I've also acknowledged if anyone could possibly notice a subconcious voice in his head, it would be the potentially multi-century psychic sorcerer who was trained to use his psychic powers and was himself a subconcious voice in the head of someone else.
You sure? We're talking about a guy who didn't notice he was Tuxedo Mask in canon until Nephrite sent all those false letters to draw out Sailor Moon. I can totally see this slipping his mind.
 
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