Human is not the same as people.
Naru and Usagi both occupy a body with human DNA, with human parents, making them human for any practical biological definition.
They also both happen to reincarnated elder gods who are slowly recovering their power and some of their memories.
Personally my go to answer for the question of "are they human?" is "does it matter?"
Given what we know the only two actually consistant definitions for "human" are based either on physiology/biology or statistical clustering of Earth's sophont population.
If you define human based on biology, that human is homo sapiens biology and that non-humans differ from that statistical model. Then the Senshi, Usagi and Naru are all human as they don't (currently) differ much from the common baseline biologically, as there major differences from the median are all spiritual/metaphysical. This would classify most yokai as near-human or non-human and gods would likely be non-humans (nature of avatars dependent).
If you define based on the statistically common traits of Earth's sophont natives, that human is based on the most common traits of Earth native sophonts. Then the Senshi, Usagi and Naru are all non-human due to their spiritual aspects not even vaguely resembling the common baseline. This would classify yokai and gods as distictly non-human due to there spiritual differences, but many yokai probably would count as closer to human than the Senshi as they aren't quite as spiritually alien. (Of course this assumes yokai numbers are overall low compared to the homo sapiens population, which seems to be the case.)
Of course the precise definition isn't really important as being a person is unrelated to humaness.
If someone's going to say that Naru is human to contrast her with Pandora, then establishing whether or not there is contrast does matter. That does not require any of *gestures generally upward*, just that words not change definition mid-conversation.
We don't actually know if Pandora was a human or not?
We have no DNA to test or knowledge of her parentage.
Unless i forgot about it or missed a line while reading, which both are possible.
We don't actually know if Pandora was a human or not?
We have no DNA to test or knowledge of her parentage.
Unless i forgot about it or missed a line while reading, which both are possible.
Less flippantly, we get back to "does it matter?" The original question was not "was Pandora human," it was "was Pandora less human than Naru." Pandora is the greatest authority on her own biology that we're going to get any time soon, and she says no, she and Naru are the same kind of thing. If you want to call that kind of thing human, fine. If you don't, neither did she. But calling Naru human and Pandora not human is not supported by the information we have.
Well, she lived during the Silver Millennium and was friends with Princess Serenity and the Inner Senshi. Just from chatting with her friends, she has more information on biology than are in any universities. So she is the greatest authority we can consult, and so we can take her word for it.
After all, can you imagine Serenity not taking an interest in what her friend does? She'd probably have brought whole libraries to help Pandora with making new beings.
All around Naru people are cheering, singing along with the chorus of the song. The first of the people who stands out to Naru's eyes is a young man, maybe sixteen to seventeen at the oldest. Between his dusky skin and the shape of his face, Naru is able to easily recognize the young man as being Egyptian in origin. He's wearing a really funny looking shirt that has four different beetles walking across a crosswalk. The girl knows that's a reference to something, but she isn't sure what or where she's seen the original before.
The final of the people who really stand out to Naru is another pale skinned girl, her long hair dyed in rainbow colors, and seems to glimmer in the light as she dances.
Off to one side, Naru can see that there is a table so laden with food that it seems to be sagging under the weight, and there's a second table with punch.
This... This was not what Naru was expecting to find in the middle of the trail at the park. But after a moment of looking across the party... she sees no reason not to join in. Nice time to relax.
Even with later comments from the QM this seems suspiciously similar to that whole wood elf party in LotR. Or the whole don't-eat-things-fae-give-or-you'll-be-stuck-in-their-realm.
Since it will be revealed next update I will say that a bunch of Dawn Gods and Goddesses come and do a party around this time every year since 1960. Not everyone manages to show up every year, but they all at least try to show up and remember those who are gone.
I think the Honest Flame might be a little too overwhelming and intense for that kind of thing.
Putting everyone under compulsion to reveal a ton of raw truths in rapid succession isn't necessarily the best way to get everyone comfortable knowing one another. And Endymion, in particular, does have a lot of issues where as (mentally) a grown man who is now surrounded by the reincarnated selves of several old friends and his old lover, has a lot of issues where giving him the emotional space to at least consider keeping his own counsel is important.
I'll consider ourselves well-off if we get to sit and have a chat with him and everyone that reveals more things at all.
Although honestly, we're currently in a state where he remembers a lot and we all remember very little, creating a significant imbalance.
I must admit that I didn't even consider that while voting for The Honest Flame. Oh well, can at least use it while asking very important questions of others.
I think the Honest Flame might be a little too overwhelming and intense for that kind of thing.
Putting everyone under compulsion to reveal a ton of raw truths in rapid succession isn't necessarily the best way to get everyone comfortable knowing one another. And Endymion, in particular, does have a lot of issues where as (mentally) a grown man who is now surrounded by the reincarnated selves of several old friends and his old lover, has a lot of issues where giving him the emotional space to at least consider keeping his own counsel is important.
I'll consider ourselves well-off if we get to sit and have a chat with him and everyone that reveals more things at all.
Although honestly, we're currently in a state where he remembers a lot and we all remember very little, creating a significant imbalance.
I must admit that I didn't even consider that while voting for The Honest Flame. Oh well, can at least use it while asking very important questions of others.
Err, isn't Naru human with Pandora's soul? She's not actually created from Pandora, nor is she Pandora's daughter or anything. More like "aunt that is younger than you" than younger sister.
I meant more I can kind of see reincarnation as more of a spiritual procreation. Physical procreation passes on DNA, traits, possibly personality, and medical stuff. Now, that isn't really what Pandora did, she did actual creation. Same difference really. Naru has her soul, but not all her memories, and also has the same abilities as her. Hence why I see it as procreation of a different kind. She is her own person, just like she is not a carbon copy of her own mother, but she has inherited stuff from Pandora like a child. I also felt not only would it create an interesting dynamic, it would make more sense than deities calling her mother, because she isn't really. Not this incarnation at any rate.
If you have to pick a spot in the inhabited regions of the world to be "where the sun rises," thematically, where if you go east from that point there's just water, water, and more water until you wrap back around to the western edge of the world...
Well, your choices are Japan, New Guinea, or New Zealand. And I'm pretty sure the Japanese dawn goddess throws the best parties.
I must admit that I didn't even consider that while voting for The Honest Flame. Oh well, can at least use it while asking very important questions of others.
By similar argument, we didn't really need to steal trucks from the orks, but examining ork trucks gave us some sweet ideas for magitech. I don't know what the benefit will be from the slann getting to examine atomic weapons, but I'd like to at least have that option.
Also, I want to take multiple different avenues towards minimizing the risk of the orks nuking our temple-cities.
I'm very paranoid about nuclear attack and as I see it, we have a lot of other commitments. I'm not at all sure that Loquatl spawning will prove to be worth it. I might consider it.
Also, when we get into space, our ships will need weapons. And nuclear munitions are, like, entry level destructiveness for space-to-space firepower in this setting.
I am pretty sure my plan draft does that, and if it doesn't, it will by the time I post it in "ready for prime time" form some time tonight.
If you have to pick a spot in the inhabited regions of the world to be "where the sun rises," thematically, where if you go east from that point there's just water, water, and more water until you wrap back around to the western edge of the world...
Well, your choices are Japan, New Guinea, or New Zealand. And I'm pretty sure the Japanese dawn goddess throws the best parties.
I mean, there may come a time for some of our core cast to have Big Conversations under the Honest Flame.
But it's something you go into slowly, not hastily, unless you really, really want to double down on the big mood moments.
I was thinking I just missed orcs showing up in this quest. Like, yeah, we should minimize the risk of the orks nuking our temple-cities. Usagi would never forgive herself if a city that was built to worship her got nuked.
If you have to pick a spot in the inhabited regions of the world to be "where the sun rises," thematically, where if you go east from that point there's just water, water, and more water until you wrap back around to the western edge of the world...
Well, your choices are Japan, New Guinea, or New Zealand. And I'm pretty sure the Japanese dawn goddess throws the best parties.
Less flippantly, we get back to "does it matter?" The original question was not "was Pandora human," it was "was Pandora less human than Naru." Pandora is the greatest authority on her own biology that we're going to get any time soon, and she says no, she and Naru are the same kind of thing. If you want to call that kind of thing human, fine. If you don't, neither did she. But calling Naru human and Pandora not human is not supported by the information we have.
Except Naru considers herself human, which according to you means we should consider her human. Furthermore, she is born of woman, and thus according to DNA she is human, so she's not deceiving herself or anything. Identifying as non-human has significant implications for Naru, that the players seem to be happy about, except Naru isn't.
This is the thing, you and others are trying to force Naru to become non-human against her will, and I don't think that's right.
Except Naru considers herself human, which according to you means we should consider her human. Furthermore, she is born of woman, and thus according to DNA she is human, so she's not deceiving herself or anything. Identifying as non-human has significant implications for Naru, that the players seem to be happy about, except Naru isn't.
This is the thing, you and others are trying to force Naru to become non-human against her will, and I don't think that's right.
Like, as far as I can trace this branch of the discussion, it all started from you objecting to the idea of gods viewing Naru as their "younger sister" on basis that she is "human with Pandora's soul" which… doesn't really matter? She can be a "human with Pandora's soul" and still count as "Pandora's youngest creation" in all ways that matter for the purpose of counting her as "younger sister of the gods".
And what are those "significant implications" of identifying as a non-human, anyway?
(And it might not even be true that she is "born of woman". For all we know, Naru's mother had a caesarean, which would make Naru eligible for killing Macbeth, so )
Is that what you meant? Because I've not been talking about self-identification. I've been talking about identification by the closest thing to an expert we've got, with the impression that you expected Naru's body to be different from Pandora's for reasons other than her preferring to make a different kind of monster.
(And it might not even be true that she is "born of woman". For all we know, Naru's mother had a caesarean, which would make Naru eligible for killing Macbeth, so )
This... This was not what Naru was expecting to find in the middle of the trail at the park. But after a moment of looking across the party... she sees no reason not to join in. Nice time to relax.
The girl on top of the tub continues to sing, as Naru slowly approaches the group. She doesn't just want to intrude without asking if it's okay first, and it's entirely possible that it isn't okay. After all, if everyone is allowed to join, then why is the party in the middle of the woods?
That's the moment when the girl with the rainbow hair glances up, catching sight of Naru. "Hey! You there!" The girl calls out, and it takes everything that Naru has not to freeze up. "Could you grab me a slice of pizza?" The girl calls out, "It should be at the far end of the table!"
That wasn't what Naru expected, but it sounds like there really isn't a problem with her being there. And really, there isn't any reason not to grab the girl a piece. Quickly stopping by the table, Naru gives a look across all the food that is gathered up. There's stuff from all over the world, a wild mishmash of different dishes and different foods. Everything from pizza and american style steaks to some kind of soup that manages to even smell spicy, There were bags of popcorn and plates of some kind of rice dish that Naru didn't recognize, but there were clams and shrimp in it. Then of course, there were things like Mac and Cheese and Pastries and Spaghetti. It was like every nation in the world had spat up at least two dishes to slap dash onto this single table.
It takes the girl a moment to actually find the pizza amidst everything else, but soon enough Naru manages to find it. Grabbing the girl a plate, she takes it over to the rainbow haired girl. There is an odd look on her face when Naru gets closer, the girl's head tilting just a hair, like she is trying to figure something out. "You... seem really familiar." The girl says, as she looks Naru over, clearly trying to figure something out. "Have we met before?"
Naru opens her mouth to answer, but as the girl takes a breath-
And the whole of the world slams on the breaks. Everything around Naru seems to suddenly slow down to a crawl, the sounds of song in the distance deepening and distorting as it stretches out, as the only thing that sounds anything like it is supposed to is the hammering of the girl's head. All of a sudden, Naru is just... so HUNGRY. Like she hasn't eaten in days, hasn't had her thermos in days.
As she takes a second breath, it becomes so blindingly obvious to the girl that there is magic in the air. The mist that hangs like the early morning is formed wholly of magic. The food at the table is all but made of magic, and the bowl of punch sings it's magical essence out to the girl. Yet, for all the magic around the girl, it is the moving bodies that shine with the most magic of all. Everything else is chaff in the wind before the concentrated aura that radiates from the rainbow haired girl. From the Egyptian and the German boys, and from the girl singing on stage. The only beings that Naru has ever felt who have more magic are the Senshi themselves.
With a growl, Naru's eyes lock onto the girl in front of her, and she pushes off, hand outstretched to grab hold of the girl. Her teeth are shifting, ready to rip and tear unti-
Then, all at once, there is a slice of pizza in Naru's mouth. The piece of bread and cheese and meat is absolutely bubbling over with magical energy, more than enough to push back at the magic eater's darkest instincts. Instincts that she's never had to deal with before. Naru blinks, her mind starting to reboot as she looks around, barely able to remember what she did while in that haze of hunger. "I..." the girl mutters. "What... What was that?" She starts to ask, not really sure how to put her feelings and confusion into words.
The rainbow haired girl raises an eyebrow as she looks at the girl. "What was that?" She repeats, looking like she doesn't quite understand what Naru is saying or meaning by that. "That was your hunger. Don't tell me you've never lost control like that before?"
However, just the mention of the hunger is enough to get Naru to lock eyes with the other girl, a suddenly terrified look on her face. "You... You know about the hunger?" She asks, hoping that the rainbow haired girl could give some kind of explanation.
"Of course I know about the hunger." The girl says, "We've all had it happen to us at some point or another." Now, that statement only manages to confuse Naru even more.
"I... You said... All of us? What?" Naru stumbles over her words, so lost at this point that she doesn't have the slightest idea what is going on. "You feel it too? I didn't think that there was anyone else..."
"Oh..." The girl says softly, her voice barely loud enough to be heard over the sounds of the dancing girl's song starting to wind down. "Honey, no. There may not be a lot of us left, but you're not alone." Then, after a moment. "Oh, right. Where are my manners. The name I am most known as is Aurora. What's yours?" Aurora asks, and as she says those words the girl's hair seems to practically twinkle, the colors glowing just slightly in the moment that her name was said.
"My name's Naru Osaka." Naru says. There is a tiny amount of annoyance in the very back of Naru's head - She came out here to get away from magic and demons and everything that makes up the harder side of her life, if only for a couple of hours, and now here she is meeting with people like her. People who eat magic. Of course, at the same time, the very fact that she is meeting with people like her is enough to squash that irritation flat.
"So, I'm guessing by the fact that you didn't even know that there was anyone else that this is your first time meeting one of us?" Aurora asks, and Naru nods slowly. Really, the closest things that she has encountered to Aurora is the Youma and the other monsters that the forces threatening Tokyo have been summoning, but those aren't really the same time in at... they are just too different even if they are similar.
"Let's get you some more to eat, something to quell that hunger, then we can talk." Aurora says. "Give you a chance to relax and recharge, and then you can meet the others."
Over by the food laden table, there is a smaller table with a handful of chairs. After grabbing a pair of plates and stacking them tall, the girl makes her way to the table, sitting Naru down next to her. "So... Is this the first time that you've nearly lost control like that?" Aurora asks.
Naru is quiet for a moment, before she gives a shrug. "There was one other time, but I'm not sure that should really count." Naru says, and Aurora raises an eyebrow. "I had been attacked," Naru explained. "Someone brought a painting of a Mammoth to life and tried to use it to crush me. It hurt... a lot when it slammed me against the wall, and then I just... ate it."
Aurora nods at that. "That's not what I'm really talking about yeah, but if you haven't been losing yourself to the hunger... how have you been keeping it at bay?"
Oh, Naru actually has an answer to that question. Reaching into her bag, Naru pulls out the thermos filled now with a lemonaid based tea that she made in the curse breaker kettle. She gives the kettle a bit of a shake, before putting it on the table. "A friend of mine bought a kettle that is supposed to break curses." Naru began to explain. "After... after her brother ended up in the hospital and her mom mana doped herself with the kettle, we realized that it might work to keep me fed up on magic."
Aurora blinks at that. It seems that was not at all what the girl was expecting to hear, and she looks at the thermos for a long moment. "Can I?" She asks, motioning to the container full of lemonaid tea.
"Go right ahead," Naru says, nodding as Aurora slowly reaches over and grabs hold of the thermos. Pouring a little of the tea into a cup, the rainbow haired girl takes a sip. Then she takes a second, and then a third.
There is an odd look on the girl's face, and not a particularly happy one. "How... how much are you drinking of this stuff a day?" Aurora asks, and Naru is quiet for a moment as she counts.
"At least 12 full thermoses a day." Naru says, but oddly that doesn't seem to make Aurora happy, if anything the girl seems almost mildly upset.
"I... see." Aurora finally manages to say, shaking her head as she passes the thermos back to Naru. "That's not going to be enough." She says after a moment.
That... is not what Naru wanted to hear. "What?" The girl asks, hoping beyond hope that whatever the girl means by that is not what Naru thinks the girl means by that.
"This might have been enough when you first started." Aurora says simply, idly swirling the little amount of the drink left in her cup, "But as you grow up, and grow stronger you'll need more and more magic to keep yourself going. At least until you fully mature and are able to generate enough magic to keep the worst of the hunger back. Even then... you'll still need to feed, just not as soon or as often as you might now." With that Aurora sighs, "Of course, that raises the question. How long have you been feeling the hunger?"
"I..." Naru starts, "It's been a couple of weeks now." she explains, a statement which causes Aurora to blink in surprise. "More than a month, but less than two."
"That's..." Aurora begins, seemingly unsure of how to handle that statement. "That's not possible though." The girl mutters quietly, "The only two people who can make us are dead."
Before Naru has a chance to follow up on that question, there is a thump as the pale haired young man drops down into one of the other chairs at the table. Given the way that he lounges across the chair, kicking his legs up and over the arm as he lays across it, Naru can see that there is a beautiful depiction of a boar across the back of his shirt. "Guten Morgen!" the young man cheerfully says, waving to both of Naru and Aurora. "What's going on over here?"
Aurora sighs, but it is a very good natured sounding sigh. More amused than anything else. "Naru, this is Freyr. He's from up around... Upland or somewhere. I dunno. Over in Europe somewhere."
"Ah yes. Somewhere in Europe." Freyr says with a snort, "My Favorite country." Aurora snorts, shaking her head. "But you don't often give my name, so what's up?"
"This is Naru," Aurora says, "She's a newborn godlet apparently. Been keeping her hunger in check with ritual water."
"Smart. You wanting to introduce her to the others?" Freyr asks, glancing over towards where the dark haired girl was talking with the Egyptian boy.
"Yeah..." Aurora says softly. "She seems to be all alone. She mentioned a friend, but it doesn't sound like her friend has to deal with the hunger."
"Hey, Mortal friends are good too." Freyr argues, and Naru just continues to watch, trying to understand more about what these people are talking about.
"They aren't a pantheon though." Aurora points out, and Naru is starting to realize that these people might actually be different gods. They aren't names that she recognizes, but given that it's not one of the ever so popular Egyptian Gods or gods native to Japan, it isn't like she would recognize their names.
Freyr at the least does sound like a name she might have heard before, so that is something. At the far side of the party, the dark haired girl looks up, scanning the crowd for her friends. Then, as her gaze lands on Naru, the girl's eyes light up like the sun breaking over the dawn.
Leaping to her feet, the girl dashes across the whole of the party, before she slams into Naru, wrapping the girl up in a tight hug. "Naru-ru!" She cheers, "It's you-you!" The girl rhymes before she starts to cackle. "Oh, I haven't seen you since... ah... well, a long time."
"Uhhh... Hi?" Naru says as she looks down at the girl looking up at her. "Don't... Take this the wrong way... but, uh, Who are you?" She asks, and there really isn't an easy way to ask that question, given that the girl seems to recognize her.
"Oh, me?" The girl asks with a smile as she leans back, letting Naru get a better look at her. "I'm Ame-no-Uzume. Duh." The girl says, as if that statement was the most obvious thing in the world. Naru blinks when the name finally manages to settle into the girl's brain. Ame-no-Uzume, the Japanese Goddess of festivities and the dawn.
"Okay." Naru says, "That answers that question. But... uh, why- How do you know me?"
"Because you helped me." Uzume says simply. "Sorry, not allowed to say any more than that. The Lady in Green says so." Naru isn't sure how to take that, but Uzume just laughs again, before she pushes herself off of Naru. "I gotta go get Khepri-Amon-Ra. Stay here." the girl says firmly as she hurries back into the party.
Next to Naru, Aurora sighs. "I... I haven't seen Uzume that happy since... things turned bad." Now that is a statement.
"Things turned bad?" Naru asks, and both of the gods sitting at the table turn to each other, looking quietly sad for a moment.
"That's a long story," Freyr says "But it's one that you need to know about, as a baby god. It was hundreds of years ago now... The mortals call it the Fade. We call it the Decimation..."
"Ah- Right. I know that you mentioned wanting to hang out," Rei says, "Maybe you could help me. I asked Naru if I could borrow one of those Magic primers that she has."
There is a tiny moment where the shorter girl's smile grows brittle, and immediately Rei regrets asking. Before she has a chance to speak up however, Usagi leans back, and lightly slaps herself across the face. Then, the smile is real. "Alright!" Usagi nearly cheers, only barely managing to bring her voice back down. "Magic training it is! I can help with that."
Usagi spends the next two hours helping her friend go over the partially translated tome. Together, they not only go through the exercises that Usagi and Naru had found previously, as well as the separate ideas that Usagi and Makoto had gone through, but the two girls continue to push forward on translating the rest of the ancient text that appears in many of the photographs in the text book.
Oh, what Usagi would give for the original slabs of stone that had these ancient teachings before her proper for the girl to translate. That would be so much better, and so much easier than having to work from low quality photographs.
Working on the translations isn't the only thing that they were doing, as it wasn't long at all before their focus started to slip. Understandable given how utterly dry and boring the primers are written, and how there is a vanishingly small amount that needs to be translated.
Instead, more and more of the two girls time experimenting went to studying Rei's magic, the spells she knows, and trying to teach her a new one. All together the two hours are ones well spent, as Rei slowly practices with the new magic she had discovered inside of herself - A ring of fire that strips away illusions and falsehoods. With not only that, but the new spells that Usagi herself has learned, the decision is made to head into the woods in order to find Makoto.
With Rei's new spell, and the conversation that the two had while translating, Rei has decided that she wants to spare with Makoto as well.
Who should Spar with Makoto first?
[ ][Spar] Rei
- Will gain a small bonus to chance of increasing her Mar or Pro, will have a chance to gain a second new spell
[ ][Spar] Usagi
- Will gain a small bonus to the chance to increase her Mar or Pro, and will have a chance to gain a second stat bonus I seem to have caught a stomach bug, and am not having a great time of it. Which has left this last scene to just sort of languish. I'll try and expand on it when I write the next update, but for now I just need to get it out and go lay down.
Hm, decisions. On the one hand, Rei has some good spells and kinda needs the boost. On the other hand, the faster Naru gets to Imperial Composure the better.
Eh, Usagi gets way more opportunities for stat boosts.
[X][Spar] Rei
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