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Usagi Quest (CK3/Princess Maker) (Sailor Moon)

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Rule 4: Don’t Be Disruptive — Continuous disruptive behavior is not acceptable conduct.
Did you seriously ignore my latest attempt to make people stop? There's a lot we don't know for sure, yes, but there's been no evidence to think Heart Flowers aren't naturally paired with souls. Inuyasha is a time-traveler, and going by actual Sailor Moon lore it is always a bad thing for parts of the Soul to be missing. Youma are the only example we have of beings that lack a Heart Flower, at least in function, even if it isn't literally a Flower like Mr. Gold Bar. We know that removing a person's Star Seed can turn them into a monster, so it is entirely possible the Youma (seemingly) lacking Heart Flowers is important.

I'm not wrong, I'm sick and tired of all this harassment and you jerks going "actually it is okay cause you're in the wrong". You're literally wasting time and effort yelling at me, cause I don't care. I know I'm not wrong, so stop it. Nobody is here to see a bunch of people yelling at someone else.
 
Gmerguy said:
You can argue all you want that both Youkai and Human suffer the same over those 25 years... but one has, barring their starting age, 99.2% of their life to live after getting out while the other has 66% percent of their life to live, at best and this is bound to cause serious tension between humans and Youkai.
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By the same token, you can argue all you want that both yokai and humans lose the same fraction of their lifespan under your system, but if yokai suffer more in the process that's bound to cause tension between humans and yokai. It's tempting to turn this into a straightforward math problem, but it's not. This is going to be messy and complicated and will depend a lot on what a given population thinks the purpose of a justice system is. There's going to be wildly varying answers depending on whether a jurisdiction decides it's to fine someone a fraction of their lifespan, make them suffer, give them a chance to grow as a person, or just pack as many people in private prisons as possible.

And there's probably going to be another round of revaluation when Usagi makes everyone immortal.
 
Kkutlord said:
Did you seriously ignore my latest attempt to make people stop? There's a lot we don't know for sure, yes, but there's been no evidence to think Heart Flowers aren't naturally paired with souls. Inuyasha is a time-traveler, and going by actual Sailor Moon lore it is always a bad thing for parts of the Soul to be missing. Youma are the only example we have of beings that lack a Heart Flower, at least in function, even if it isn't literally a Flower like Mr. Gold Bar. We know that removing a person's Star Seed can turn them into a monster, so it is entirely possible the Youma (seemingly) lacking Heart Flowers is important.

I'm not wrong, I'm sick and tired of all this harassment and you jerks going "actually it is okay cause you're in the wrong". You're literally wasting time and effort yelling at me, cause I don't care. I know I'm not wrong, so stop it. Nobody is here to see a bunch of people yelling at someone else.
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This is probably a stupid question, but have we actually looked at a Youma with the glasses to confirm they lack a Heart Flower? Like I'm not saying you're wrong, but can you find a quote or something?

And Sailor Moon is rather more flexible on the topic of souls. I think, based on third hand knowledge. Usagi has lived most of her life with the (a?) physical manifestation of her soul shattered into seven pieces with a super Youma trapped inside each one, and then later her daughter steals said physical manifestation of her soul and travels into the past. Now Usagi's soul isn't normal by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm really skeptical of anyone making grand sweeping claims about how souls work in Sailor Moon, most of what I've heard seems to point to 'it's magic, I don't have to explain shit' and will probably remain ambiguous until the QM decides to make some rules for them.
 
The legalities of treating Yokai as equals and re-publicizing Magic are kind of beyond the Sailor Senshi for multiple reasons. At best the Sailor Senshi can influence things, but ultimately it is up to the governments of the world how to react.

memoryofglory said:
This is probably a stupid question, but have we actually looked at a Youma with the glasses to confirm they lack a Heart Flower? Like I'm not saying you're wrong, but can you find a quote or something?
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Just recently actually, but people were insisting that somehow wasn't important information. Lunaryon even marked it as Informational. This is why I wanted that knowledge in the update.

Edit; Yokai recently, Youma already yes.
 
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Kkutlord said:
Just recently actually, but people were insisting that somehow wasn't important information. Lunaryon even marked it as Informational. This is why I wanted that knowledge in the update.

Edit; Yokai recently, Youma already yes.
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Okay cool but could you find a quote? 'cause I don't remember us looking at a Youma with the glasses.
 
Kkutlord said:
The legalities of treating Yokai as equals and re-publicizing Magic are kind of beyond the Sailor Senshi for multiple reasons. At best the Sailor Senshi can influence things, but ultimately it is up to the governments of the world how to react.



Just recently actually, but people were insisting that somehow wasn't important information. Lunaryon even marked it as Informational. This is why I wanted that knowledge in the update.

Edit; Yokai recently, Youma already yes.
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Yes I was here for that post about some recent Youkai, I'm asking for proof about Youma. As far as I know we just looked at a guy who later turned out to be Inuyasha and theorized 'well we can't think of anyone that might lack a soul except maybe a Youma' and took that and ran with it.

Can you provide any evidence from the story that Youma lack Heart Flowers?
 
Gmerguy said:
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The other direction could just as easily cause massive tensions, since from the youkai perspective, who already are an oppressed underclass, humans getting sentences a dozen times shorter for the same crime does not remotely look good.

And thats leaving aside several other issues like humans with prolonged lifespans, things whos lifespan cannot be determined or is flat out infinite, and more.


We may really need to rethink the whole system from the ground up instead of slapping a patch on the existing one.

Also, since we are Sailor Moon, wed likely want the resulting system to emphasize rehabilitation/redemption over punishment or deterrence. (Works much better in most cases anyway. Utterly Ireddemable beings have to be neutralized or permanently contained one way or another).
 
Xexilf said:
The other direction could just as easily cause massive tensions, since from the youkai perspective, who already are an oppressed underclass, humans getting sentences a dozen times shorter for the same crime does not remotely look good.

And thats leaving aside several other issues like humans with prolonged lifespans, things whos lifespan cannot be determined or is flat out infinite, and more.


We may really need to rethink the whole system from the ground up instead of slapping a patch on the existing one.

Also, since we are Sailor Moon, wed likely want the resulting system to emphasize rehabilitation/redemption over punishment or deterrence. (Works much better in most cases anyway. Utterly Ireddemable beings have to be neutralized or permanently contained one way or another).
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Yes, it causes tension's either way and isn't an easy fix. And while Usagi and Salior Moon might be the focus of the quest I don't think that will just give us a pass in how it ends up. Its a complex problem with a lot of moving parts and invested parties, and thats before you get into issues of authority and what not. Its a mess, and probably won't be part of this quest.
 
With all the tension going on, i would like to step back a bit from all the arguing, and just state that i love this quest.
Seriously, it is my number 2 quest/story i am reading, not just in this forum, but in general, only topped by Thread of Destiny, and managing to push Divided Loyalties to number 3 spot, which, considering that ToD is basicly the best Xianxia, ever, and Loyalties is basicly pure gold in written form, should tell something about how much i love this quest.

And i think large part of the reason why i love this quest, is also the reason why we get into some of the arguments.
I often find over powered from the start protagonists lot more interesting than the usual "starts from nothing and grows to challenge gods" type of character progression.
Because there is only so much tension you can wring from "will they overcome this overwhelmingly powerful enemy?" when it keeps happening and the answer is almost inevitably yes.
Sure we are not omnipotent (yet), but as it is outside very few exceptions, Senshi are basicly the top dogs of the story, and can basicly do anything they want (as far as power is concerned), so instead of debating what we can do, we get to more interesting arguments over what we should do.

In lot of stories, these kind of bindings would be a question of "can we break them", possibly leading to fairly lengthy quest to do so, while here we focus on possible knock on effects of suddenly releasing hundreds, possibly thousands, of slaves with little to no experience with modern society or safety network, because our ability to do so is never in question.
 
Valmond said:
And i think large part of the reason why i love this quest, is also the reason why we get into some of the arguments.
I often find over powered from the start protagonists lot more interesting than the usual "starts from nothing and grows to challenge gods" type of character progression.
Because there is only so much tension you can wring from "will they overcome this overwhelmingly powerful enemy?" when it keeps happening and the answer is almost inevitably yes.
Sure we are not omnipotent (yet), but as it is outside very few exceptions, Senshi are basicly the top dogs of the story, and can basicly do anything they want (as far as power is concerned), so instead of debating what we can do, we get to more interesting arguments over what we should do.

In lot of stories, these kind of bindings would be a question of "can we break them", possibly leading to fairly lengthy quest to do so, while here we focus on possible knock on effects of suddenly releasing hundreds, possibly thousands, of slaves with little to no experience with modern society or safety network, because our ability to do so is never in question.
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Hm.

There's a good point here, though I'd like to make a few counterpoints.

1) I would like to caution us against victory disease. So far we've mainly faced enemies who were either totally unprepared for us, or those who were partially prepared but also our own first season first arc villains. We've done what we can to sequence-break things in our favor. But even our secondary enemies, like the IMO and assorted Pretty Cure villains, aren't stupid and are likely to be capable of escalating well beyond what we've seen from them so far.

2) It should be noted that our faith in the sovereign and overpowering nature of our abilities often includes assuming we'll be able to solve speculative problems we haven't checked yet. Making sure that we have a Plan B if our Plan A doesn't work, or at least that we can cope when Plan A doesn't work, is a good idea.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Hm.

There's a good point here, though I'd like to make a few counterpoints.

1) I would like to caution us against victory disease. So far we've mainly faced enemies who were either totally unprepared for us, or those who were partially prepared but also our own first season first arc villains. We've done what we can to sequence-break things in our favor. But even our secondary enemies, like the IMO and assorted Pretty Cure villains, aren't stupid and are likely to be capable of escalating well beyond what we've seen from them so far.

2) It should be noted that our faith in the sovereign and overpowering nature of our abilities often includes assuming we'll be able to solve speculative problems we haven't checked yet. Making sure that we have a Plan B if our Plan A doesn't work, or at least that we can cope when Plan A doesn't work, is a good idea.
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As i said, we are not quite omnipotent yet.
DK atleast can be a threat, and i suspect gods would be as well, atleast within their areas of power, not sure how well they can project force.
But as it is, we do sit quite comfortable in top 1% at minimum, and possibly higher, in power rankings as is, and are getting more powerful as time passes with the end point being what has been described as Azatoth in a miniskirt.

And so far we have seen little cause to believe our enemies (apart from DK) can escalate more than we can, and in a fight their main strength is likely to be our unwillingness to risk bystanders.

But as far as something can be solved through magical hammer, we're more or less golden.
 
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I can see both sides of this to a certain extent. We are certainly up in the top tiers of power locally in terms of brute magical force... but we should be cautious that just because we can overpower our enemies in a fair fight doesn't mean we're invincible; they now have strong incentive to figure out how to draw us into a distinctly unfair fight in their favor, and we shouldn't assume they can't manage to set a trap capable of actually harming or possibly even defeating us. The fact that they have something like the local gumiho around implies they have some way of taking down and sealing powerful opponents. Based on our limited experience, I would guess it probably takes the form of some kind of ritual magic or complex device that takes time and effort to pull out of their vaults and get set up, but once they figure out what they're dealing with we can be pretty sure they'll be dredging through their vaults for any anti-super-demon/anti-demigod stuff they have squirreled away for emergencies and refurbishing it for deployment.

The Night Market probably won't be a problem. They aren't ready for us yet and don't even know we're planning to hit it. But after that they're going to have gotten their wakeup call and we should expect some actual serious resistance, particularly when assaulting fortified positions. I wouldn't be surprised if the only things they have that can actually stop a Senshi are too complicated or bulky to really deploy offensively, but they're quite likely to set them up at any locations they consider actually vital. Having backup to break us out if they manage a potent enough sealing to actually stop us would be wise, as would gathering intelligence to see if we can determine what forms such things might take.

There are ways to overcome an opponent who outmatches you massively in brute force. Most of them are through trickery, which we are distinctly relatively bad at with our mostly low Intrigue scores.
 
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We are also surrounded by lot of people who are not as powerful and hard to hurt.
Like Naru.
So yes, we do need to be careful.
I am not arguing that we should go all out guns blazing.
The point is that we probably could, if we did not care about collateral, and therefore our actions are mainly constrained by our personal morals, instead of more mechanical constraints.
 
Later Arc Villains, like Nehelennia or Galaxia can very well overpower us. Galaxia especially, since she dosent need to be freed or summoned by her minions, she just waited until the end because it was funny.

But then shes the final villain, and hopefully still 4 years or so away.

For the early villains, all that we would have to fear at full potential power is restored Metallia or full power Death Phantom, and we hopefully can prevent either from becoming a thing.


On the more direct scale, what we perhaps have to fear are numbers with Teamwork, like the DD Girls if theyre a thing here. In the Anime they managed to kill 4 of the Senshi, so definitely to be taken seriously, though IIRC they could have outright won at one point.
 
Hmm... dealing with the DD Girls is going to be a whole thing that needs preparation, especially if Beryl sends them after us early since we've been sequence breaking.

Most of the deaths were from having to use ranged attacks at point black range:
  • Makoto had to use Supreme Thunder on herself when she was bound in their vine limbs. Killing 2 DD Girls.
  • Ami died because she didn't have any damaging attacks, and had to resort to smashing their illusion crystal with the Mercury Computer. Killing no DD girls.
  • Minako died by using Crescent Beam at point blank range. Killing 1 DD Girl.
  • Rei killed 1 DD Girl with Fire Soul and then immolated herself to kill the other.
So a lot of those deaths can be avoided with melee options:
  • Makoto has Element Knuckle and Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon Makoto had a spear.
  • Usagi has Moon Tiara Melee Action and the Moon Rod.
  • Michiru has Splash Edge.
  • Tuxedo Mask has Caliburn.
  • Haruka is destined to wield the Space Sword, and so can probably learn to manifest a sword made of wind.
  • Ami has Ice Armour as a spell option, and has manifested swords a lot in Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon.
  • Minako has Venus Love Me Chain in the second season, so she might not be able to access it yet. She has Sailor V kick from Codename Sailor V and had daggers in Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon. She's also the only one who can wield the Holy Sword/Sword of the Silver Crystal which is currently on the Moon.
  • Rei is mostly a ranged attacker, but her training in Tai Chi and later use of a bow implies that she might be able to use a staff (shakujo?) that transforms into a bow once she gets the Mars Arrow. In Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon she had magic daggers.
 
I see the DD girls as primarily winning because they had illusions and sneak attacks, and once they didn't have those any more, they had the numbers.

So we need things like armor/defense (best would be "completely negate one attack" types), and better intrigue skills.
 
The good news is, fighting Empty Faces may be very good training for fighting illusionists in general.

...

Also, quite frankly, all the Inner Senshi show more predisposition to fight in hand-to-hand than their '90s anime counterparts. Probably because the quest author is influenced by magical girl series with a more dynamic style of combat (e.g. Pretty Cure, or so I'm told), and plays up the Senshi's superhuman strength quite a bit, resulting in the group being collectively a lot more willing to throw hands.

See also Sailor Mercury taking on Jadeite one-on-one in an actual fistfight, admittedly enabled by some very good rolls on her part, but she did it which is quite a departure. In the anime it is, if I recall correctly, a veritable piece of late-season character development when Mercury even closes to melee range with Brainwashed!Tuxboy. And she wasn't planning to stay at that range at the time.

Or then there's Usagi mixing it up with Pisard. Sure, Pisard's a tier down from her native series' dark generals, but for Heaven's sake Bunhead wasn't even transformed; "local schoolgirl suplexes demon" is supposed to be Makoto's job!

...

On the other hand, I don't think just "is able to fight hand to hand better than the average schoolgirl" is going to give us a meaningful edge over Lunaryon's version of the DD Girls in and of itself. They're gonna be tough, and having the right teamwork may well matter more than any specific detail of what attacks we've learned.
 
There is one quest on this site that I've been reading that surprisingly has a lot of overlap with some of the discussion we've been having here: DragonParadox's A Sword Without a Hilt; a crossover of Game of Thrones and D&D 3.5 Edition.

Problems that both quests have to deal with:
  • Starting a nation effectively from scratch (the other quest took over a pirate's den to start with)
  • Figuring out how to end slavery while still having a nation keep running afterwards.
  • Creating laws to accommodate and regulate the use of newly revealed magic.
  • Allaying the superstitions of the public, and presenting magic as useful and reliable.
  • First contact with magical peoples who've been doing their own thing for centuries but are intrigued by the opportunities you present.
  • Dealing with enemies who would bring your new nation low, both mundane and magical.
  • Figuring out how to recruit monsters from the evil faction to willingly serve your glorious empire.
  • Finding the point where "send the main adventuring party to fix the problem" becomes "oh, wow, sending the head of state on dangerous missions is REALLY unwise."
Solutions that we WON'T be able to make use of with our Lawful Good campaign:
  • Making our first edict that capital punishment for 90% of crimes (whether magic is used or not) is hanging, and only direct and only knowing collaborators of Enemies of Creation (the forces of Hell, mindflayers of the Drowned God, the evil dragon goddess Tiamat, the White Walkers, etc) become blood sacrifices to the Weirwood Trees.
  • Propping up a ruthless tyrant in a land we wish to conquer, letting him kill the heads of all the other factions (so we don't have to get bad PR for purging them ourselves), and finally killing him in battle, portraying ourselves as liberators.
  • Deciding that the only determining factor between summoned demons who are allowed to become citizens and summoned demons who become blood sacrifices is whether they bend the knee and agree to follow the rules.
  • Summoning mindless demons with factory-like efficiency for a MONTH to power a ritual that will flat out shatter a Fae Court in one blow to avoid a protracted war.
 
Silverking said:
Finding the point where "send the main adventuring party to fix the problem" becomes "oh, wow, sending the head of state on dangerous missions is REALLY unwise."
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We'll also have to find the point where "oh, wow, sending the head of state on dangerous missions is REALLY unwise" becomes "it's not like there'll be a state to be head of if we don't send her."
Silverking said:
Summoning mindless demons with factory-like efficiency for a MONTH to power a ritual that will flat out shatter a Fae Court in one blow to avoid a protracted war.
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Because Usagi is a better battery than a month's worth of demons?
 
Also because Naru makes non-mindless demons, and we don't want to sacrifice them to power a ritual. We can build fancy magic-tech crystal tower networks or something like that instead. And most of the Fae Courts seem relatively friendly to us (we shouldn't assume all of them, but the Pretty Cure ones seem friendly).
 
Silverking said:
Deciding that the only determining factor between summoned demons who are allowed to become citizens and summoned demons who become blood sacrifices is whether they bend the knee and agree to follow the rules.
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I mean to be fair the determining factor over which Yokai can live in Japan will be 'will they bow the knee and not kill random humans in "revenge"'.
 
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