- Pronouns
- He/Him
Given how spectacularly this bit them in the ass a few years back, they may be reevaluating their design choices.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
That's probably what they've been working on for the past ten years.
2312.Q2.M2 - The Apinae Foxtrot Pt 4
- Location
- Australia
Okay, vote closed now.
[X][CLAIM] "We can do it, but we'll be thin on the ground elsewhere."
-[X] With that said, Starfleet has a wave of cruisers in production, and the wave has only now started to crest. In six months we'll have two more Connie-Bs. In six months, another two beyond that. Outposts and bases do not take much longer than a year to build. Time is on our side.
-[X] We will require Apiata support however, if the Cardassians and Sydraxians start contesting the area. And I strongly suspect they will for strategic reasons, regardless of our own moves.
[X][OGODBEES] "Well, Madame President, contrary to some impressions the Apiata are a patient people inclined to talk before they fight. I still remember our first contact with them, when despite strong evidence that the Courageous had attacked their ships, they were willing to listen. Some of them can be self-serving, but in all of Starfleet's logs no faction among them has ever resorted to violence against us, and that's more than I can say for a lot of our Affiliates... or even some Members. I think they've just been pushed too far. It's maybe a little insulting to liken a sapient species to insects, but the metaphor is hard to miss. Even a peaceful hive, if provoked enough, will swarm forth. That's what we're seeing.
[X][SKIRMISH] "Don't doubt us for a moment, Madame President. As long as it's limited to pushing back on the border, we can do it."
[X][WAR] War is a terrible thing, Madame President. Even in the best case we'll take massive losses, and I truly hope that there's a path to a diplomatic solution. That's not high-minded idealism; it's my people who will be the first to die. That said, you asked me a question. If you told me to go right now we could be sure of victory only with the support of the Member Fleets to both guard the home sectors and in some cases support us on the attack.
-[X] We would definitely win a defensive war with Cardassians and their allies, right now. Whether the Cardassians and Sydraxians attack from coreward, spinward, or rimward, we have strong member fleets and bases on those borders that can augment Starfleet forces for rapid response, and sufficient time to muster the other member fleets for reinforcements. The war would be costly, but it would be far costlier for the Cardassians.
-[X] I'm less confident for the Federation's prospects for striking at Cardassia. Starfleet alone is unlikely to succeed, and to be blunt, the Federation is not geared politically or logistically for a large scale war that requires the offensive support of the member fleets.
-[X] (Holds up 3 fingers.) Three years. If you can hold off a full scale war for 3 years, the fleet will be far stronger. We'll have all our Mirandas refitted, we'll have 14 new ships that we don't have today... a dozen of them cruisers or Excelsiors. Admiral Kahurangi once told me that if we can build two Excelsiors for every two Jalduns the Cardassians build then this conflict is a mountain out of a molehill. We can- but we need to actually get them built.
[X][CLAIM] "We can do it, but we'll be thin on the ground elsewhere."
-[X] With that said, Starfleet has a wave of cruisers in production, and the wave has only now started to crest. In six months we'll have two more Connie-Bs. In six months, another two beyond that. Outposts and bases do not take much longer than a year to build. Time is on our side.
-[X] We will require Apiata support however, if the Cardassians and Sydraxians start contesting the area. And I strongly suspect they will for strategic reasons, regardless of our own moves.
[X][OGODBEES] "Well, Madame President, contrary to some impressions the Apiata are a patient people inclined to talk before they fight. I still remember our first contact with them, when despite strong evidence that the Courageous had attacked their ships, they were willing to listen. Some of them can be self-serving, but in all of Starfleet's logs no faction among them has ever resorted to violence against us, and that's more than I can say for a lot of our Affiliates... or even some Members. I think they've just been pushed too far. It's maybe a little insulting to liken a sapient species to insects, but the metaphor is hard to miss. Even a peaceful hive, if provoked enough, will swarm forth. That's what we're seeing.
[X][SKIRMISH] "Don't doubt us for a moment, Madame President. As long as it's limited to pushing back on the border, we can do it."
[X][WAR] War is a terrible thing, Madame President. Even in the best case we'll take massive losses, and I truly hope that there's a path to a diplomatic solution. That's not high-minded idealism; it's my people who will be the first to die. That said, you asked me a question. If you told me to go right now we could be sure of victory only with the support of the Member Fleets to both guard the home sectors and in some cases support us on the attack.
-[X] We would definitely win a defensive war with Cardassians and their allies, right now. Whether the Cardassians and Sydraxians attack from coreward, spinward, or rimward, we have strong member fleets and bases on those borders that can augment Starfleet forces for rapid response, and sufficient time to muster the other member fleets for reinforcements. The war would be costly, but it would be far costlier for the Cardassians.
-[X] I'm less confident for the Federation's prospects for striking at Cardassia. Starfleet alone is unlikely to succeed, and to be blunt, the Federation is not geared politically or logistically for a large scale war that requires the offensive support of the member fleets.
-[X] (Holds up 3 fingers.) Three years. If you can hold off a full scale war for 3 years, the fleet will be far stronger. We'll have all our Mirandas refitted, we'll have 14 new ships that we don't have today... a dozen of them cruisers or Excelsiors. Admiral Kahurangi once told me that if we can build two Excelsiors for every two Jalduns the Cardassians build then this conflict is a mountain out of a molehill. We can- but we need to actually get them built.
You watch in the anteroom as President Jorlyth sh'Arrath and Queen Ubrizzi shake hands. The Council session has concluded and the dignitaries are filing out. An Observer from Risa gives you a wink as you pass by, and you hope your cheeks are colouring. Off to the side of your delegation of officers, you see another Apiatan Queen slip through the crowd and pounce onto the arm of Commodore ka'Sharren. A sigh escapes you and you roll your eyes. There are no journalists here for this, barring the official Council Recorder, and an officer from your own History Office, recording for posterity. This was a closed session, which is rather rare in the Federation, but not unknown. Even in an open society, sometimes you just had to talk about things that couldn't go on the public record.
Such as when you must talk about war and rumours of war...
The President and her entourage detach from the crowd and begin to walk towards the exit. You begin to following, your own gaggle of officers and aides hanging back.
The President looks over and sees you. "Walk with me, Admiral."
An Amarkian Councillor, Corlin Korielis of Tales Har, the leader of the Hawks, is walking at her right hand side. He's tall and slim, moving with a fencer's grace. Next to him is Rob Langford, who has an expression by parts eager and anxious.
"Certainly, Madame President," you reply. You fall in alongside the leader of the Federation, matching her stride easily. "May I ask how the Council session went?"
"I'm sure you'll get the full recording soon," the President replies. "Not every faction agrees on every point, of course, but..."
"They say that compromise is the art of making everyone equally unhappy," tosses in Rob Langford. You can't help but spare a glance for the man's leg. "This is a good example."
"Let's see," muses Korielis, the Amarkian Councillor. "We Hawks aren't happy we're delaying pushing back. The Pacifists are unhappy we will begin to claim the Gabriel Expanse. The Developers are unhappy the Apiatans are being invited in. The Expansionists are ... perhaps you'd like to tell us, Rob?"
Langford grimaces. "We've been forced to accept a five year hold on further accessions to the Federation. Apparently some people feel the Federation is overheating and needs a chance to draw its breath."
A pale red mist seems to fall over your eyes, but you hold your tongue on Langford's revelation. Instead, "So the Apiata membership will go ahead?"
President sh'Arrath nods as she continues to walk on. "That's right. Starting in '13, Starfleet, the Amarki, and the Apiata will begin to claim as much of the Gabriel expanse as possible."
"We are stopping short of all-out war," tosses in Korielis. "Which, despite what some people say, is perfectly fine by us Hawks. We're here to be ready for a war, and to win one if it starts. But we certainly have no desire to start one."
"Of course," you reply.
"The Apiata will restrain their forces; no more ambushes. But in the last quarter of this year, we want Starfleet to start bloodying the Cardassian nose when our ships meet. Even the Pacifists are listening to the reports from our Xenopsychologists that we need to start imposing some costs of our own, rather than just rebuffing Cardassian ops, in order to make them sit up and accept a dialogue."
You grin thinly. "I can only imagine the expression on T'Torah's face."
"Her eyebrows dropped half a centimetre and she went three shades redder," notes Langford. "For a Vulcan, she may as well have thrown her nameplate across the chamber."
============================
Summary of 2312.2.2 Extraordinary Council Session:
-Apiata Road to Membership Unblocked
-5 Year Moratorium in effect on further Member Ratifications - Indoria/Apiata excepted
-Gabriel Expanse to be settled - Gabriel Border Zone will be created as of 2313.1.1
-Starfleet will be under orders to engage aggressively when skirmish opportunities present, starting 2312.4.1
-Gabriel Expanse will require Garrisoning
As per the Constitution of the United Federation of Planets:
For consideration in decision-making,UFP Starfleet is formally advised that the Federation considers there to be a High Threat of a State of War being recognised between the Federation and the Cardassians within the next five years.
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
Honestly I'm surprised it did bite them. The Romulans are paranoid enough about their internal security matters that I wouldn't be surprised to discover the Federation-Romulan Cloaking Tech Battle is based on finding the exploitable vulnerabilities the Tal'Shiar demands Romulan cloaks have to prevent coups or other nastiness, then engineering in new ones and phasing out old ones when it becomes known the Federation has...
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Now, an interesting thing that just dawned on me, is that if time is on our side, that means that it's the enemy of the Cardassians. For now, they still have a fair chance, but every new ship reduces that even further.
I wonder if we're going to provoke them into a pre-emptive attack.
I wonder if we're going to provoke them into a pre-emptive attack.
Dovahsith
Lost on the road of life
- Location
- Manchester
And fail glorious Cardassia?
There's a chance but its probability makes relying on it illogical.
Huh. That was really good! I can buy that as a political compromise reached after all the factions have talked things through. The freeze on new members is harsh, but at least it gives plenty of time to prepare the Orions/Caldonians/Gaeni/Risans. And there's no bar on new affiliates.
Well, we voted for this session, we paid the pp, and we got the result. Now to go agonize over how to garrison the new Gabriel Border Zone. (To the thread in general.) With the Odyssey destined for the Explorer Corps, we may need to seriously consider pulling either an Excelsior off either the RBZ, the KBZ, Amarkia, or Ferasa. One of those Excelsiors needs to go to Gabriel.
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- Location
- Patriarchova
So, we need to be ready to go lizard hunting within six months.
Doable, though I would rather deal with the Sydraxians first.
Doable, though I would rather deal with the Sydraxians first.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
All we need to do is make it too costly for them to keep pushing us. Our continued existence is probably messing with their equilibrium.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Let's see... the only other affiliates that would've reached 500 within 5 years assuming a very approximate average of +25 annually (2u10+17* and events) and no affiliate diplo pushes:
Caldonians: 443 (2-3 years to 500)
Gaeni: 368 (5-6 years to 500)
Risa: 379 (4-5 years to 500)
In the current political climate that's expected to last for at least another 2 years (next election, unless next year's ratifications change things up), diplo pushes will remain expensive, and we'll likely reserve them for strategic non-affiliate pushes.
So really, the main loss for the expansionists is Caldonians, which conveniently may also have been blocked from ratification by Klingon paranoia.
* I'm also not sure if the annual diplo roll is still 2u10+17 - might have gotten another tech bonus and/or some bonus could've been changed from rat race stuff.
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10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Well, on one hand, the Gabriel Border zone will be near the KBZ (I think?), so those could mutually support each other. On the other hand, things may just get a bit hotter in the border, so weakening it may not be a good idea.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It's between the Cardassians and Sydraxians, so should be almost exactly opposite the Klingon border zone.
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
Could always put Nash in charge of the GBZ now that she's got a bit of commodore experience under her belt.
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It would be nice to broker a deal with the Developmentalists to get the Caldonians on board past the restriction, since they'll be available soon.
The rest is basically our wish list, since we'll get the Apiata and will have the RoE to push back hard. I guess we'll be staffing the border zones with our wave of ConnieBs...
The rest is basically our wish list, since we'll get the Apiata and will have the RoE to push back hard. I guess we'll be staffing the border zones with our wave of ConnieBs...
This was a deal the Councillors made with each other. I don't think we can alter it, nor would it be a good idea to try. The Caldonians will come in time. The probably would have just joined the Pacifist/Development factions anyway. They seem like a supremely peaceful people.
@OneirosTheWriter can we assume the Gabriel Border Zone Defense requirement will be 9 or so?
- Location
- Australia
Will be left to Starfleet judgement - just don't let it get taken or you're on the political chopping block
Will be left to Starfleet judgement - just don't let it get taken or you're on the political chopping block
Ouch! Well, what about the Apinae Sector with Indoria and Apinae? Is that going to be 12D or so? Can we expect to have to start garrisoning it at the same time as the Gabriel Expanse?
EDIT: Indorian ratification doesn't happen until 2313 according to the Snakepit, so it seems like the soonest we'd have to garrison Apinae sector would be 2313.Q2?
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Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Apiata membership isn't blocked anymore, so they might be joining sooner.