To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

Iron Wolf · Nov 22, 2016

Steven Kodaly said:
And who, pray tell, is Dapper Gorn? He sounds scrumptious.

@Leila Hann is not far off, it's like she can read my mind or some shit. Dapper Gorn came out of the fact that in STO you can dress your eight-foot lizardman up in a suit and bowtie. It's glorious! [YET SOMEHOW I DON'T HAVE A PICTURE SAVED ON IMGUR]

Since I shamelessly recycle he appeared as an erudite and chatty Gorn nobleman-scientist-in-exile with impeccable fashion sense in my Fate Core game. Imagine a Gorn voiced by BRIAN BLESSED.

Gingganz · Nov 22, 2016

Why should T'Lorel go through Seyek space?

As far as I understand T'Lorel is still flying toward Seyek space, and we can tell her to turn around and head for Federation space.

Random Member · Nov 22, 2016

Iron Wolf said:
@Leila Hann is not far off, it's like she can read my mind or some shit. Dapper Gorn came out of the fact that in STO you can dress your eight-foot lizardman up in a suit and bowtie. It's glorious! [YET SOMEHOW I DON'T HAVE A PICTURE SAVED ON IMGUR]

Since I shamelessly recycle he appeared as an erudite and chatty Gorn nobleman-scientist-in-exile with impeccable fashion sense in my Fate Core game. Imagine a Gorn voiced by BRIAN BLESSED.

Iron Wolf · Nov 22, 2016

Thank you @Random Member for illustrating how great the entire concept is.

It's actually kinda wild how many people dress their Gorn up in formal wear, although I guess the humor of eight foot tall lizardmen dressed to the nines is universal.

Simon_Jester · Nov 22, 2016

I am a great fan of dapper Gorn now, even though I have never heard of them until like five minutes ago.

That is now my headcanon for all Gorn in this quest, that they are snappy dressers. With the scantily clad Gorn captain from ~~Celes IV~~ Cestus III being an aberration.

[Or alternatively the Metrons are jackasses, and transported that poor Gorn to the planet in his underwear, specifically to mess with him]

Gingganz said:
Why should T'Lorel go through Seyek space?

As far as I understand T'Lorel is still flying toward Seyek space, and we can tell her to turn around and head for Federation space.

Because telling her to turn around, in compliance with a Cardassian demand, would be needlessly provoking a Cardassian squadron. A squadron that (we have chosen to assume) is just itching to start a potentially suicidal fight with a more powerful force instead of continuing with their actual mission, which is to find the Kadak-Tor.

If that doesn't make sense to you... well, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me either.

Steven Kodaly · Nov 22, 2016

Aeondrac said:
Regardless of what you want to do with Fifth Fleet can you at least have some of our Fleets in our territory look for it.

Quite right! I have edited in a relevant vote to my previous post.

Simon_Jester · Nov 22, 2016

Metrons: "You will have to defeat the human captain in single combat, barehanded!"

Gorn: "Uh... correct me if I'm wrong, but humans are like six feet tall and have rubber bands for muscles. I'm going to beat this guy like a drum. It would be like fighting a twelve year old. Honestly I'd rather just not bother... it seems so unsportsmanlike."

Metrons: "Ah, but until you defeat him, you will be trapped on the planet!"

Gorn: "So? It looks like a pretty nice planet to me."

Metrons: "IN YOUR UNDERWEAR."

Gorn: "What? NOOOO! MUST KILL! KILL KIRK! RAAAAAAGH!"

ThoughtMaster · Nov 22, 2016

You know, seeing as the Cardassians consider federation affiliates to be protectorates, or "client races" I doubt they would consider us passing through Seyek space to be breaking our agreement seeing as they are of the belief that said factions are puppets of the Federation and liable to annexation by the Federation. Therefore, they may actually consider Seyek space to not actually be their own, but instead as part of Federation Space.

Random Member · Nov 22, 2016

ThoughtMaster said:
You know, seeing as the Cardassians consider federation affiliates to be protectorates, or "client races" I doubt they would consider us passing through Seyek space to be breaking our agreement seeing as they are of the belief that said factions are puppets of the Federation and liable to annexation by the Federation. Therefore, they may actually consider Seyek space to not actually be their own, but instead as part of Federation Space.

I can already see the Council cringing and asking us why we didn't try to correct them.

Steven Kodaly · Nov 22, 2016

Simon_Jester said:
I am a great fan of dapper Gorn now, even though I have never heard of them until like five minutes ago.

Indeed, this game would clearly be improved via the addition of more dashing space-lizardmen.

Simon_Jester said:
shirtless Gorn

Simon_Jester said:
[Or alternatively the Metrons are jackasses, and transported that poor Gorn to the planet in his underwear, specifically to mess with him]

[EYEBROW WAGGLING INTENSIFIES]

Simon_Jester said:
Because telling her to turn around, in compliance with a Cardassian demand, would be needlessly provoking a Cardassian squadron.

I would say needlessly tempting, myself; the Cardassians have been noted for boldness, dare I say impulsiveness, and dangling such a tantalizing opportunity to ruin someone's day would simply be cruel to the poor dears.

SuperSonicSound · Nov 22, 2016

Steven Kodaly said:
I would say needlessly tempting, myself; the Cardassians have been noted for boldness, dare I say impulsiveness, and dangling such a tantalizing opportunity to ruin someone's day would simply be cruel to the poor dears.

If the Cardassians wish to commit suicide against a superior force, I'd say we should let them I'd not shed any tears over them gutting their own fleet.

Simon_Jester · Nov 22, 2016

SuperSonicSound said:
If the Cardassians wish to commit suicide against a superior force, I'd say we should let them I'd not shed any tears over them gutting their own fleet.

Apparently, we would prefer not to give them that opportunity either.

ThoughtMaster said:
You know, seeing as the Cardassians consider federation affiliates to be protectorates, or "client races" I doubt they would consider us passing through Seyek space to be breaking our agreement seeing as they are of the belief that said factions are puppets of the Federation and liable to annexation by the Federation. Therefore, they may actually consider Seyek space to not actually be their own, but instead as part of Federation Space.

Here's the catch. Read what Oneiros wrote in the update post:

...A key point in proceedings was a demand by the Cardassians that Starfleet return to Federation borders in subsectors -4f through to -4c, so as not to interfere with their operation.

[ ][WARN] Accept
[ ][WARN] Reject

They are SPECIFICALLY asking us to return to Federation borders.

Now, look at the map.

Sci-Fi - To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) | Page 91

Firstly, we would have to interpret "Seyek borders" as "Federation borders," which is already a very dubious claim that the Seyek themselves would probably contest.

Secondly, Cardassia would be tacitly conceding that we own Seyek space, which is probably not something they want to do. The Seyek own a large territory very close to their border, and one the Cardassians are probably hoping to retain some access to.

Thirdly, if both sides of that neutral 'strait' are in fact Federation territory, it positions us to claim the strait itself as our territory very very soon, something I doubt the Cardassians want us to do.

Gingganz · Nov 22, 2016

[X] Plan Fall Back and Find the Kadak-Tor

Simon_Jester · Nov 22, 2016

I suspect it will be meaningless in the end, but thank you for the vote of confidence in my proposals, Gingganz.

Leila Hann · Nov 22, 2016

Simon_Jester said:
I am a great fan of dapper Gorn now, even though I have never heard of them until like five minutes ago.

That is now my headcanon for all Gorn in this quest, that they are snappy dressers. With the scantily clad Gorn captain from ~~Celes IV~~ Cestus III being an aberration.

[Or alternatively the Metrons are jackasses, and transported that poor Gorn to the planet in his underwear, specifically to mess with him]

Or they've undergone a cultural shift in the sixty-some years since then.

aledeth · Nov 22, 2016

Simon_Jester said:
Apparently, we would prefer not to give them that opportunity either.

Because that brings a war with it. Even if it's a war we could win (especially if we get a favorable first engagement like that), the Federation fundamentally does not want a war, so our sub-commanders taking extra steps to avoid that is perfectly reasonable.

This is coming from someone who voted for your plan, because I agree with your assessment that there isn't a risk of the Cardassians taking a shot at us while we're busy doing exactly what they asked us to do.

Nervos Belli · Nov 22, 2016

The Cardassians are always going to be more willing to risk war than us, because they're a more militaristic society. To them war is only bad if you lose, while to the Federation just going to war is a bad thing. That's just how it is. It's like complaining about how the Klingons don't have a Pacifist Faction.

Now that's not to say that we have to bend over backwards for them every time, but sometimes they'll press us and it simply isn't worth it for us to press back.

Briefvoice · Nov 22, 2016

Simon_Jester said:
Okay. What that tells me, though, is that there is much less point in our issuing orders to ships, or assigning them missions that we think need to get done, than I had previously believed.

That is probably the right lesson to learn.

Us being in a position where the judgment of one of our best officers is that an inferior force presents such a threat to her command that she is compelled to abandon her mission? To an extent where the risk is deemed so great that people are advocating acceding to a Cardassian demand with intent to break it and risk later infuriating them, in an attempt to extricate her from this dangerous situation?

Here is what I understand. Based on the Sarek's estimate of its position, T'Lorel realized that trying to track the Kadak-Tor was no longer a possibility. By heading rimward to link up with the Explorers (as per her orders) the Fifth Fleet has allowed it to get sufficiently coreward of them that they can't catch it. They're behind even the Cardassians. At this point it'll have to be intercepted by a combination of the Sarek and other fleets further into Federation space.

Given that the mission "track the Kadak-Tor" is no longer in effect, she elected to withdraw through Seyek space and minimum chance of a confrontation that would not benefit the Federation even if she won.

We have the chance to countermand those orders and order her to keep searching the area anyway, assuming that the Sarek has not successfully picked up the trail. But "compelled to abandon her mission" is just an inaccurate reading of the situation.

lbmaian · Nov 22, 2016

Simon_Jester said:
I suspect it will be meaningless in the end, but thank you for the vote of confidence in my proposals, Gingganz.

Actually it still does make a difference because the FLEET vote is still close. Even if the "[FIFTH] Allow Fleets to continue" wins (which it is by a large margin), your FLEET vote is still compatible because you left in that "(if successfully withdrawn to Federation borders)" clause. Though it does mean that your 4th fleet would be wasting time patrolling -4d instead of more important or likely -4c, but that's always been a flaw in your subsector patrol assignments.

Right now the vote tally for FLEET is (manually combining plans and task-level voting):

Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) | Page 592 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.4

Task: FLEET

[X][FLEET] Captain Straak appears to have a lead. He has (until canceled or the lead is lost) authority to direct local traffic so long as he does not delay fleets by more than a week to reroute traffic for auxiliary sensor readings or ships to support special operations. He is also encouraged to make all redirected ship movements in the area appear to be withdrawing and positioning to guard and support the border. To assist in this effort, specific personal from Tactical and Intelligence services will be designated as priority on call to support this.
No. of Votes: 11

ClawClawBite
aeqnai
Briefvoice
Derek58
Iron Wolf
Leila Hann
Random Member
Steven Kodaly
tryrar
lbmaian
wootius

[X][FLEET] Order Fifth Fleet (if successfully withdrawn to Federation borders) and Fourth Fleet to spread out and patrol Federation space in -4c and -4d, respectively. They are to use superior sensors to intercept attempts by the Kadak-Tor to sneak into Federation Space. Third Fleet is to form patrol in force in -3c and -3b, attempting to intercept any attempt by Kadak-Tor to sneak into those sub-sectors. Second Fleet and its Amarki support group is to pull back to Amarkia and patrol sector -2d, as the coreward threat is deemed less urgent, and there is reason to think the Kadak-Tor may be moving in the direction of Amarkia. Advise the Amarki member world ships remaining at Selindra to patrol their sector (-2c) looking for the Kadak-Tor.
No. of Votes: 9

Aeondrac
aledeth
Artemis1992
Gingganz
JesseJ
Night_stalker
Simon_Jester
Nix
Mr Tebbs

-[X][FLEET] 5th Fleet is to follow Sarek's course and escort Enterprise and S'harien to the border, then resume border patrols based at 21 Themis. Enterprise and S'harien are to continue to try linking up with Sarek to aid in the Kadak-Tor search. 2nd Fleet is to patrol around all major Amarki worlds, 3rd Fleet is to patrol around all major Orion Union worlds (opportunistically interrupting any Syndicate operations on the way) and Ord Grind Duk, and 4th Fleet is to patrol around all major Caitian worlds, unless any are requested to help Sarek
No. of Votes: 2

lbmaian
wootius

[x][FLEET] Leave Fleets as they are, barring conflicts with the accepted terms of the WARN vote.
No. of Votes: 1

TerrisH

[X][FLEET] Move the 2nd Fleet and 2nd Amarki Fleet from Tales Har to Leas Akaam and Amarkia respectively.
No. of Votes: 1

Nervos Belli

Currently, 11 votes for ClawClawBite's general "let Sarek have whatever help he can get or want yet avoid Cardassian suspicion" vs 9 votes for Simon_Jester's subsector patrol micromanagement.

edit: Actually "partition (plans) by block" voting works without manual editing, and actually revealed Mr Tebb's vote is slightly incompatible with Simon_Jester's, and is probably a bit superior to partition by line voting:

Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) | Page 592 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.4

Task: FIFTH

[X][FIFTH] Allow Fleets to continue.
No. of Votes: 23

[X][FIFTH] Write-In: T'Lorel is to withdraw coreward towards Federation Space rather than Seyek space, broadcasting that withdrawal is "as per the Federation's agreement with the Cardassion Union this task force will return to Federation borders" if Cardassian ships ships seem set to challenge. Fear of contradicting their own diplomatic agreements should buy her the breathing space needed.
No. of Votes: 11

Plan: ◈Fall Back and Find the Kadak-Tor
Plan: ◈Fall Back and Find the Kadak-Tor, non-groveling version
Plan: ◈Return and Backstop Sarek
Aeondrac
aledeth
Artemis1992
Gingganz
JesseJ
lbmaian
Mr Tebbs
Night_stalker
Nix
Simon_Jester
wootius

[X][FIFTH] Order Third Fleet from Ord Grind Duk to 15 Themis, while Fourth Fleet stops at Ferasa.
No. of Votes: 1

ClawClawBite

Task: FLEET

[X][FLEET] Captain Straak appears to have a lead. He has (until canceled or the lead is lost) authority to direct local traffic so long as he does not delay fleets by more than a week to reroute traffic for auxiliary sensor readings or ships to support special operations. He is also encouraged to make all redirected ship movements in the area appear to be withdrawing and positioning to guard and support the border. To assist in this effort, specific personal from Tactical and Intelligence services will be designated as priority on call to support this.
No. of Votes: 9

ClawClawBite
aeqnai
Briefvoice
Derek58
Iron Wolf
Leila Hann
Random Member
Steven Kodaly
tryrar

[X][FLEET] Order Fifth Fleet (if successfully withdrawn to Federation borders) and Fourth Fleet to spread out and patrol Federation space in -4c and -4d, respectively. They are to use superior sensors to intercept attempts by the Kadak-Tor to sneak into Federation Space. Third Fleet is to form patrol in force in -3c and -3b, attempting to intercept any attempt by Kadak-Tor to sneak into those sub-sectors. Second Fleet and its Amarki support group is to pull back to Amarkia and patrol sector -2d, as the coreward threat is deemed less urgent, and there is reason to think the Kadak-Tor may be moving in the direction of Amarkia. Advise the Amarki member world ships remaining at Selindra to patrol their sector (-2c) looking for the Kadak-Tor.
No. of Votes: 8

Plan: ◈Fall Back and Find the Kadak-Tor
Plan: ◈Fall Back and Find the Kadak-Tor, non-groveling version
Aeondrac
aledeth
Artemis1992
Gingganz
JesseJ
Night_stalker
Nix
Simon_Jester

[X][FLEET] Captain Straak (Sarek) appears to have a lead on the Kadak-Tor. He has (until canceled or the lead is lost) authority to direct local traffic so long as he does not delay fleets by more than a week to reroute traffic for auxiliary sensor readings or ships to support special operations. He is also encouraged to make all redirected ship movements in the area appear to be withdrawing and positioning to guard and support the border. To assist in this effort, specific personal from Tactical and Intelligence services will be designated as priority on call to support this.
-[X][FLEET] 5th Fleet is to follow Sarek's course and escort Enterprise and S'harien to the border, then resume border patrols based at 21 Themis. Enterprise and S'harien are to continue to try linking up with Sarek to aid in the Kadak-Tor search. 2nd Fleet is to patrol around all major Amarki worlds, 3rd Fleet is to patrol around all major Orion Union worlds (opportunistically interrupting any Syndicate operations on the way) and Ord Grind Duk, and 4th Fleet is to patrol around all major Caitian worlds, unless any are requested to help Sarek
No. of Votes: 2

Plan: ◈Return and Backstop Sarek
lbmaian
wootius

[X][FLEET] Order Fifth Fleet (if successfully withdrawn to Federation borders) and Fourth Fleet to spread out and patrol Federation space in -4c and -4d, respectively. They are to use superior sensors to intercept attempts by the Kadak-Tor to sneak into Federation Space. Third Fleet is to form patrol in force in -3c and -3b, attempting to intercept any attempt by Kadak-Tor to sneak into those sub-sectors. Second Fleet and its Amarki support group is to pull back to Amarkia, as the coreward threat is deemed less urgent, and there is reason to think the Kadak-Tor may be moving in the direction of Amarkia.
No. of Votes: 1

Mr Tebbs

[x][FLEET] Leave Fleets as they are, barring conflicts with the accepted terms of the WARN vote.
No. of Votes: 1

TerrisH

[X][FLEET] Move the 2nd Fleet and 2nd Amarki Fleet from Tales Har to Leas Akaam and Amarkia respectively.
No. of Votes: 1

Nervos Belli

Task: T'Lorel

[X][T'Lorel] Award her a golden statuette of a red and swollen human ass on account of all the butthurt she seems to have caused.
No. of Votes: 1

Leila Hann

Task: WARN

[X][WARN] Accept
No. of Votes: 28

[x][WARN] Reject
No. of Votes: 2

sebsmith
Steven Kodaly

[X][WARN] Write-In: Accept if in return the Cardassians agree to limit the number of ships tailward of zone f to 10 (authorize our stand-ins to negotiate this up to 20) for the duration of this agreement (which is limited to the next 2 months unless extended). Excess ships are to turn around. As a gesture of good faith the 5th Fleet will return to Federation territory immediately.
No. of Votes: 1

Plan: ◈Fall Back and Find the Kadak-Tor, non-groveling version
Nix

Total No. of Voters: 35

edit2: added other task vote tallies for completeness
edit3: combined T'Lorel withdraw write-in votes

lbmaian · Nov 22, 2016

Briefvoice said:
Here is what I understand. Based on the Sarek's estimate of its position, T'Lorel realized that trying to track the Kadak-Tor was no longer a possibility. By heading rimward to link up with the Explorers (as per her orders) the Fifth Fleet has allowed it to get sufficiently coreward of them that they can't catch it. They're behind even the Cardassians. At this point it'll have to be intercepted by a combination of the Sarek and other fleets further into Federation space.

Given that the mission "track the Kadak-Tor" is no longer in effect, she elected to withdraw through Seyek space and minimum chance of a confrontation that would not benefit the Federation even if she won.

We have the chance to countermand those orders and order her to keep searching the area anyway, assuming that the Sarek has not successfully picked up the trail. But "compelled to abandon her mission" is just an inaccurate reading of the situation.

Yeah, that's my understanding of it too. It's not clear at all just from reading the W4 update, but Oneiros has since made more un-threadmarked clarifications.

Mr Tebbs · Nov 22, 2016

Simon_Jester said:
Because telling her to turn around, in compliance with a Cardassian demand, would be needlessly provoking a Cardassian squadron. A squadron that (we have chosen to assume) is just itching to start a potentially suicidal fight with a more powerful force instead of continuing with their actual mission, which is to find the Kadak-Tor.

If that doesn't make sense to you... well, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me either.

Ok, we get it! we can beat the current cardassian fleet deployments!

Why are you warmongering?!

Leila Hann · Nov 22, 2016

Unrelated to the above.

Mr Tebbs · Nov 22, 2016

What in the seven hells?!

Algalon · Nov 22, 2016

Mr Tebbs said:
What in the seven hells?!

Crystalline Entity

Basically, a warp capable giant crystal that strip mines planets (regardless if there are people on it)

I think it's sentient too and the TNG Enterprise talked to it... not sure.

Shows up in STO as a boss too

OneirosTheWriter · Nov 22, 2016

I just need to figure out how and where to tack warp drives to those designs, @Leila Hann!

Apart from that, votes on this one seem to be on the low side, I might let it stay open for a while longer. People may have been chased off by the big fracas that followed the last update.

To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

Gardener of Human Happiness

Gardener of Human Happiness

Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal

The Flesh is Weak

Don't think this means you've won!

a thirsty squirrel

a thirsty squirrel

Herald of the Titans

Cabal Core Commander

Happy InternationalWorkers' Day!

Happy International
Workers' Day!