You're right, a cloaking device would totally have protected them from the antimatter mine and the detonation wouldn't have alerted the Syndicate raiders anyway.
Why wouldn't it have? mines work off of some sort of proximity sensor, right? I doubt space minefields are so dense that you can rely of physical impacts.

I was imagining something like the minefield in Galaxy Quest, where the mines detect that a ship is nearby and have thrusters to fly towards it.
 
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You're right, a cloaking device would totally have protected them from the antimatter mine
Well, that depends. Is the mine in question a contact-explosive that is only detonated when a vessel physically impacts the device, or does it rely on some form of proximity sensor and a guidance package to allow it to close on a valid target? Heck, I'm sure with a little effort you could have a Star Trek variant on a bomb-pumped laser warhead.
 
All right, I was able to get back to my spreadsheet.

[] Cancel Constitution-B build in UP-C 3mt berth and repair Courageous there.

(for when the vote goes up) Based on repair costs for the Cheron (which lost its warp core) and the Kumari, I estimate the cost of the repair at around 100br, 50sr. We have to cancel a build to be able to afford to repair, and we might as well repair it in a "home" berth in that case.

But wow, I really want that Ana Font 1mt berth now. Strike us down and we shall build twice as hard!
 
@Simon_Jester I'd quote but I'm on mobile. Thanks for the insight. I may or may not go back and adjust, because it's easy to rationalize that as Anusha being wrong (not having any OG constitution scans on record). Maybe Constellation hull compositions are similar to OG connies?
 
But wow, I really want that Ana Font 1mt berth now. Strike us down and we shall build twice as hard!

Maybe. I think our priority should be spending political capital on increasing crew recruitment.

More berths don't help us much if we can't crew the ships and we just lost a whole lot of explorer grade crew.

Last snakepit we had the options of:

*Establish Betazoid Counsellors in Starfleet vessels, starting with Explorer Corps, 8 turns, 50pp (Increased Retention nets +.25 Officer/Crew/Technician in Explorer Corps)
*Request Academy Expansion, 35pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
*Request Science Academy Expansion, 20pp (Gain +1 Techs throughput)
*Expand Explorer Corps Recruitment drives to affiliates, 25pp (One affiliate starts generating 0.3 of Explorer Corps crew, arrangement depends on species) [Once per affiliate]

IMO we need at least the Counselors and the Academy expansion next snakepit.

fasquardon
 
Maybe. I think our priority should be spending political capital on increasing crew recruitment.

More berths don't help us much if we can't crew the ships and we just lost a whole lot of explorer grade crew.

We don't put out Explorer ships all that often, though, and we really do need that one more berth. The only reason we didn't have every single berth building ships this turn was because we were just shy of the resources to start one more cruiser. We need one more 1t for breathing room.

I agree crew is important, but if people are talking about taking on the Syndicate and poking the Cardassians with courting the Bajorans, we need more ships and we need at least one spare berths for when our existing ships get damaged. Really have to push hard to spend 9 pp on expanding Ana Font.

Last snakepit we had the options of:

*Establish Betazoid Counsellors in Starfleet vessels, starting with Explorer Corps, 8 turns, 50pp (Increased Retention nets +.25 Officer/Crew/Technician in Explorer Corps)
*Request Academy Expansion, 35pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
*Request Science Academy Expansion, 20pp (Gain +1 Techs throughput)
*Expand Explorer Corps Recruitment drives to affiliates, 25pp (One affiliate starts generating 0.3 of Explorer Corps crew, arrangement depends on species) [Once per affiliate]

IMO we need at least the Counselors and the Academy expansion next snakepit.

We took the Science Academy expansion last turn. This turn, I am all for the Academy expansion, but I cannot support spending 50pp on the Counselors as well this turn. Do them next turn, and we'll be nicely positioned, but spending 85pp on both Academy and Counsellors is too expensive in my opinion. There's other stuff that's been waiting a number of turns already, and I know no one is going to spend less than 40pp on diplomacy. Then we're committed to spending 20pp on an Excelsior's worth of resources and that takes us to 145pp. That would leave less than 20pp for anything else, and we need another Tech team at least.
 
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I'm a bit concerned about Bajor. We know that they're already seeing Cardassian ships visiting the Bajoran homeworld, and, at least in DS9, Bajor seemed to be quite close to Cardassia Prime. I worry that attempting to win over Bajor to our side of the fence might spark a war simply due to Cardassia fearing a Federation-aligned Bajor as a dagger at their throat.
 
On a longer range basis, we know that Bajoran civilization is old. Like, banging around at sublight in their home system during the sixteenth century old.
Depending on who they talked to, there might be some info there that could help with the longer term Orion issues.
 
On a longer range basis, we know that Bajoran civilization is old. Like, banging around at sublight in their home system during the sixteenth century old.
Depending on who they talked to, there might be some info there that could help with the longer term Orion issues.

Quite possibly. I am pretty sure these aren't the canon Bajorans. I'm not aware of the canon Bajorans having any colonies before the Cardassians occupied their world, while one was mentioned in the last set of logs.

As such, Bajor may have taken more of an interest in the rest of the galaxy for quite some time in the BoldlyVerse.

fasquardon
 
On a longer range basis, we know that Bajoran civilization is old. Like, banging around at sublight in their home system during the sixteenth century old.
Depending on who they talked to, there might be some info there that could help with the longer term Orion issues.

FEDERATION: So we're having some trouble with the Orions and their-hypercapitalist nature that seems to lead to some corrupt and immoral behavior.

BAJOR: Oh yes, we know the Orions of old. Once we nearly went down the same path, but we found a way to avoid it. Sadly they would not follow, but perhaps with your help....

FEDERATION: Yes? Yes?!

BAJOR: Have you considered the benefits of a caste system so that everyone knows their place and no one has to- Wait, where are you going?

FEDERATION backs slowly away.
 
See, this is why I talk shit about the Gaeni all the time. They're such arrogant, conniving, SOBs. Look out how Thuir talks about them. Every time they get into a negotiation, they always try to pull some stupid stunt to frame someone or other for something and it always blows up on their face. Watch as they cause a serious disaster one day, like getting us into a war with the Romulans because they wanted to know how Cloaking devices worked or something like that.

On the other hand, it may be premature to define a whole race based off the actions of a couple crazy ships and diplomatic meetings. I know Star Trek, like nearly all sci-fi, love to stereotype races to certain dispositions (often with only humans as this super versatile and diverse special snowflake), and the Oneiros seems to be going ahead with that practice with his species descriptions, but it may be too early to do that here.

And regardless, the Federation should be willing to compromise with such reckless cultures - otherwise, it wouldn't really be living up to its ideals.

Okay, that's all very good, but, uh...how?

Like, we're talking a crime syndicate with power and size comparable to interstellar governments. We can't just shoot them all, it's probably an act of genocide. We can't arrest them all; we don't have prisons big enough. If we kill all the heads they'll just produce new ones and it seems that whatever they're doing with the Cardassians is profitable enough they're willing to get into a shooting war with us over it.

I agree that eliminating a crime syndicate would be a majorly complex and likely decades-long endeavor, but we do have the capability to strike a devastating blow against the Orion Syndicate.

Use Federation superior sensor technology to find as many ships and bases that we can find and strike them down. Even if we only manage to hit 50% or so, and leave their ground operations and headquarters untouched, this would be a significant setback for them that will take a long time to recover from. This is also hardly genocide - supposing the Orion Syndicate has naval power about half that of Amarkia, if we manage to destroy all their ships and bases and do it with extreme prejudice, we're only talking about thousands of deaths. And we're not going to go for such "extreme prejudice" measures - Starfleet would emphasize disabling ships, and allowing surrenders.

This may not completely eliminate the syndicate, and it may grow stronger in the ashes (you know what they say about the black market), but it's a good first start that neuters their effectiveness in a short time frame, and the Orion Union and the Federation can build on this with further police action and diplomatic and economic incentives.

I'm a bit concerned about Bajor. We know that they're already seeing Cardassian ships visiting the Bajoran homeworld, and, at least in DS9, Bajor seemed to be quite close to Cardassia Prime. I worry that attempting to win over Bajor to our side of the fence might spark a war simply due to Cardassia fearing a Federation-aligned Bajor as a dagger at their throat.

For all we know, Cardassians may be just as leery of starting a war with us. We're pretty sure that a fully mobilized Federation fleet would defeat a fully mobilized Cardassian fleet right now, albeit at huge casualties, and they might know that. This isn't something I'd depend on, since the Cardassian Union have a tendency to underestimate threats in canon (I think), but it's still something.

Also, I am afraid that affiliating Bajor opens the surface area of the Federation so wide that it would be hard to adequately protect and respond rapidly enough to the skirmish battles that Cardassians are favoring. Seyek and Qloath I'm not as afraid for, since they seem capable of defending themselves to a certain extent, but I worry about the extra burden that Bajor would place on us.

We really should allocate an intel report this year on Cardassian war readiness and their own intel on us.

edit: typos
 
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Also, I am afraid that affiliating Bajor opens the surface area of the Federation so wide that it would be hard to adequately protect and respond rapidly enough to the skirmish battles that Cardassians are favoring. Seyek and Qloath I'm not as afraid for, since they seem capable of defending themselves to a certain extent, but I worry about the extra burden that Bajor would place on us.

One diplomatic push on them might panic the Cardassians enough to concentrate on Bajor and devote less resources to messing with species close to us. We don't have to follow it up with making them affiliates.
 
I'm a bit concerned about Bajor. We know that they're already seeing Cardassian ships visiting the Bajoran homeworld, and, at least in DS9, Bajor seemed to be quite close to Cardassia Prime. I worry that attempting to win over Bajor to our side of the fence might spark a war simply due to Cardassia fearing a Federation-aligned Bajor as a dagger at their throat.
Yes, because UFP/Cardassian relations are so nice in their current state as is?

They want to play the game of subverting our neighbors, let's return the favor.
 
I'm a bit concerned about Bajor. We know that they're already seeing Cardassian ships visiting the Bajoran homeworld, and, at least in DS9, Bajor seemed to be quite close to Cardassia Prime. I worry that attempting to win over Bajor to our side of the fence might spark a war simply due to Cardassia fearing a Federation-aligned Bajor as a dagger at their throat.
A. Getting them on our side is the right thing to do, because god knows what the Cardies will do to them without our protection(IC thinking there, we know OOC)
B. IT IS a dagger to their throat, and one they need to have there, those spoonheads are getting overconfident.

I agree, if there is an option to hit the Syndicate, I would love to take it...this isn't something we can let them get away with, as well as them assisting the Cardassians doing God knows what, they might have even had a hand in the ambush of the Enterprise.

that said, can we all agree to name the next Excelsior that comes up for naming the 'Maryam Ajam'?
 
2309.Q2 - The Snakepit
2309.Q2

The door to the President's office closes behind you as you return to your, now much paler looking, aides. President sh'Arrath is a younger person than yourself, with no military experience, but somewhere along the line she has picked up the talent for a good dressing down, because you haven't had someone take you to task like that since you showed up to a Starfleet Academy class still inebriated from the night before. That dressing down had put you back on the straight and narrow. This dressing down, however, is less about you and more about making sure that you offer your head of Intelligence the same favour.

The near-destruction of the Courageous and the loss of one of rising stars of the fleet has put a shockwave through both San Francisco and Paris. You haven't had this many Councillors and lobbyists looking to meet your since the opening months of the Biophage Crisis. The Council observers from Orion are spinning the situation for all its worth, calling for aid in the struggle against the Syndicate.

You return to the Starfleet compound in Paris and find Rear Admiral Nash zh'Rhashaan outside your office with a letter of resignation in hand.

"Well, that was a fine mess," you say as you walk past in her into your office.

"Admiral, as I was the one to green-light the operation to raid the Syndicate outpost, I take full responsibility for the disaster," begins the Andorian head of Intelligence.

You sit down at your desk and look across at her, steepling your fingers in your lap. When Nash begins to keep talking you hold up a hand to forestall her, giving yourself more time to gather your thoughts. "Tell me, zh'Rhashaan, what were you going in there for?"

"Our analysts believe the unknown Cardassian module has ties to the Orion Syndicate," explains Nash. "The manufacturing suggests a mix of Orion and Klingon influences. We believe that that station was where some of the research work was done on that device."

"Klingon influences?" you ask.

"Yes, sir, but we had nothing concrete," says zh'Rhashaan.

"'Had'? Did you get anything from the raid?"

The other woman bobs her head. "Yes, Admiral, we did. We have confirmed that this was a mix of Orion and Klingon technology."

"Surely for a group like the Syndicate Klingon cloaking tech is available off the shelf?" you ask.

"Yes, sir, but there's something special about this module. I don't know what. It's an older one that they were intensely interested in, apparently." Nash glances down at the ground, her normal dire intensity nowhere to be seen. "Whoever you appoint as my successor will have to follow that up."

"Right, your resignation," you say before heaving a deep sigh.

[ ][INTEL] Accept the Resignation (+5pp)
[ ][INTEL] Decline the Resignation (-25pp)


After that it isn't long before your have to return to the Council chambers, where mere anarchy seems hardly sufficient a term to express the sentiment. It's hardly too surprising. As much as you have welcome and unexpected peace on your traditional border zones with the Romulans and Klingons, the surge of expansion in the other direction has brought with it tremendous turmoil. The Caitian-Dawiar War, increased incidences of Sydraxian ships scouting out your borders, the entire conflict with the Cardassians... Expansion has brought prosperity, but just as much uncertainty.

In many ways, you feel it is your job to bring solidity and reliability to this uncertainty, but you aren't sure you have the levers at your disposal to do it. And so you stand in the middle of this vast political storm that buffets you from side to side. The Hawks against the Pacifists, the Expansionsts against the Hawks, the Development faction against the Expansionsts, and the Pacifists against nearly everyone. The Explorers are the heartbeat of the Federation, and to have one gutted in this fashion is horrifying to everyone, and the panic shows.

Of course, your people have paved the way for a solution between the Caitian and Dawiar, if the Federation Diplomatic Service can just bring the two sides together...


Thankfully, whatever is lost in terms of amity in the Council is recouped by being able to play factions against each other. Either works for your purposes.

[ ][COUNCIL] Submit a plan to the Council
(You may select any number of options, as long as you can pay the Political Will cost. You currently have one-hundred and fifty-three (153) Political Will to spend.

(Where will you repair the Courageous?)
[ ][REPAIR] Grand Hive of Apinae (-10pp)
[ ][REPAIR] Gaeni Manufacturing Coop (+5pp, Gaeni closely study the Excelsior design)
[ ][REPAIR] Write in - Suspend an existing project in one of your berths

======================================

Federation Council Options for 2309.Q2
  • Request Mining Colony at Gamma Canidae V, 8pp (4 turns, gain +20 br / year)
  • Request Mining Colony at Fenris IV, 8pp (4 turns, gain +20 br/year)
  • Request expansion of San Francisco Fleet Yards, 15pp (4 turns, gain new 1m t berth) [Can take multiple times, +5pp per subsequent build]
  • Request expansion of 40 Eridani A Shipyards, 20pp (4 turns, gain new 1m t berth) [Can take multiple times, +5pp per subsequent build]
  • Request expansion of Ana Font Shipyard, 10pp (4 turns, gain 1 new 1m t berth) [Can take multiple times, +5pp per subsequent build]
  • Request expansion of Lor'Vela Orbital Construction Facility, 15pp (4 turns, gain 1 new 1m t berth) [Can take multiple times, +5pp per subsequent build]
  • Request Excelsior berth at a shipyard, 40pp (6 turns, gain new 3m t berth)
  • Request Cruiser berth at Utopia Planitia, 15pp (6 turns, gain new 2m t berth)
  • Request expansion of Utopia Planitia, 40pp, (4 turns, gain 1 3mt, 1 1mt berth)
  • Request new Starbase I [Write in Sector] 20pp for home sectors or CBZ , 30pp for KBZ
  • Reduce Militarisation Level 60pp
  • Increase Threat Level 45pp
  • Request Ongoing Budget increase 25pp (Roll for success)
  • Request Allocation for an Excelsior's resources, one-off-infusion of an Excelsior's cost, 20pp
  • Request Academy Expansion, 35pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
  • Request Science Academy Expansion, 20pp (Gain +1 Techs throughput)
  • Request Temporary Explorer Corps Recruitment Drive, 25pp, (Gain 2 Officer, 2 Enlisted, 2 Techs, PLUS Convert 2 Officer, 2 Enlisted, 2 Techs from normal service)
  • Request Start of Ambassador class project, receiving one-off boost of Research Points and go-ahead for some projects, 45pp
  • Request Start of Custom Explorer project, receiving one-off boost of Research Points and go-ahead for some projects, 50pp
  • Request Start of Custom Cruiser project, receiving one-off boost of Research Points and go-ahead for some projects, 30pp
  • Request Start of Custom Escort project, receiving one-off boost of Research Points and go-ahead for some projects, 45pp
  • Request Refit Program for Miranda class [+1 S,H,L for 20br, 10sr, 1 Year (4 turns)], 6 turns, 35pp (NB: new unit cost for the Miranda will be 60/45)
  • Request Refit Program for Constellation class [+1 C,S,D, for 20br, 10sr, 1 Year (4 turns)], 6 turns 30pp (NB: new unit cost for Constellation will be 70/45)
  • Request new Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, 20pp
  • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) [Can be taken up to four times]
  • Expand Explorer Corps Recruitment drives to affiliates, 25pp (One affiliate starts generating 0.3 of Explorer Corps crew, arrangement depends on species) [Once per affiliate]
  • Arrange to have an Old Guard Admiral convinced it is time to retire, 20pp
  • Add a Member World Coordination Office under Shipyard Ops, 30pp (allow cooperation with member worlds on ship-building priorities as part of Shipyard Ops turn phase)
  • NEW Establish forward Outposts in the new Cardassian Border Zones, 4 turns, 20pp (create Outpost Is at 4 locations)
  • Establish Betazoid Counsellors in Starfleet vessels, starting with Explorer Corps, 8 turns, 50pp (Increased Retention nets +.25 Officer/Crew/Technician in Explorer Corps)
  • NEW Establish a Sydraxian Border Zone north of Apinae and Amarkia Sectors, 30pp
  • NEW Attempt to muster support for large scale action against the Orion Syndicate, 35pp (Anti-Syndicate actions will occur each turn in Amarkia, Caitian, and Andor Sectors)



====

Federation Grading:
Current Minimum Science = 50 [Now 85]
Current Maximum Combat = 250 [Now 110]

(Maximum Combat is a Soft cap, will gain +1 Militarisation per 10 pts over - Each point of Threat Level adds 10 to Max Combat)

Minimum Concurrent 5 Year Missions = 3
Current Militarisation Level = 3
Current Federation Threat Level = 11

Council Objectives:
85 Science by 2311 (Currently 87)
2 New Oberths by 2311

120 Defence by 2312 (Currently 93)

Starfleet Ambitions:
Operate no fewer than 5 concurrent Five Year Missions by 2311.

Federation Council:
President - Jorlyth sh'Arrath, Expansionist Faction (2308-2314)

Factions -
Expansionist (Human, Andor) - 35%
Pacifist (Vulcan) - 30%
Hawkish (Amarki) - 15%
Development (Tellar) 20%

(Species listed in brackets are principal backers, not exclusive membership)

Current Federation Full Members:
Humans
Vulcans
Andorians
Tellarites
Amarki
Betazoids

Current Federation Affiliates:
Caitians 500/500 - Pending close of War with Dawiar
Apiata 339/500 + 18 = 357/500
Rigellians 343/500 + 20 = 363/500
Indorions 341/500 + 8 = 349/500
Orions 259/500 +20 = 279/500
Risa 250/500 + 15 = 265/500
Caldonians 318/500 + 19 = 337/500
Gaeni 240/500 + 37 = 277/500

Currently Known Others Possible Members:
Yrillians 45/100
Seyek 92/100
Qloathi 64/100
Kadeshi 60/100
Sotaw 35/100
Bajorians 30/100
Gretarians 25/100
Dawiar 10/100
Lecarrens -30/100
Sydraxians -40/100

Major Powers
Romulans - Trending Positive
Klingons - At Peace
Cardassians - Low-Level Sporadic Conflict
 
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I'm ok with most other ideas, but this is the one I want:

NEW Attempt to muster support for large scale action against the Orion Syndicate, 35pp (Anti-Syndicate actions will occur each turn in Amarkia, Caitian, and Andor Sectors)

Give me this, and you'll have my vote.
 
I'm sorry, with Trump's near certain victory, I can't bring myself to care. Perhaps tomorrow.
 
[X][INTEL] Accept the Resignation (+5pp)

It is unfair but I really don't want to pay that pp cost for keeping her.

[X][REPAIR] Gaeni Manufacturing Coop (+5pp, Gaeni closely study the Excelsior design)

[X][COUNCIL] Expansion and diplomacy
  • Request Ongoing Budget increase 25pp (Roll for success)
  • Request Allocation for an Excelsior's resources, one-off-infusion of an Excelsior's cost, 20pp
  • Add a Member World Coordination Office under Shipyard Ops, 30pp (allow cooperation with member worlds on ship-building priorities as part of Shipyard Ops turn phase)
  • Establish Betazoid Counsellors in Starfleet vessels, starting with Explorer Corps, 8 turns, 50pp (Increased Retention nets +.25 Officer/Crew/Technician in Explorer Corps)
  • Request new Starbase I [CBZ] 20pp for home sectors or CBZ , 30pp for KBZ
  • Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (Orion) [Can be taken up to four times]
I really want to get Coordination Office and the Counsellors done sometime in the near future which means I don't have much pp left over. If I understand correctly the allocation is necessary (though I want to do the budget option now to hopefully solve that issue + perfect timing) and the Starbase as well as diplomatic action seems like a no-brainer to me.

The Anti-piracy option is nice but I would rather wait till we have actually build up our forces a bit more before we do it (plus maybe a tighter cooperation with Orion could be helpful) and establishing a new border sector should in my eyes also wait till we have more ships.
 
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Just to sketch things out...

=153 to start
-20pp, excelsior resources
-40pp, diplo pushes
-20pp, tech team
=73 remaining
-25pp, do not accept resignation
=48 remaining
That gets us one of:
-30pp academy expansion
-35pp anti-syndicate actions
-30pp member world coordination office
-25pp budget
-(or other similar)

we really can't afford a starbase and we kind of need to do all our diplo...
if we do accept the resignation, two of the items and the counselors become viable
 
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[ ][INTEL] Accept the Resignation (+5pp)
[ ][INTEL] Decline the Resignation (-25pp)

We really need that pp, but this is still a tough choice...

(Where will you repair the Courageous?)
[ ][REPAIR] Grand Hive of Apinae (-10pp)
[ ][REPAIR] Gaeni Manufacturing Coop (+5pp, Gaeni closely study the Excelsior design)
[ ][REPAIR] Write in - Suspend an existing project in one of your berths

Should delay a Connie-B like Briefvoice suggested.

Request Cruiser berth at Utopia Planitia, 15pp (6 turns, gain new 2m t berth)
Request expansion of Utopia Planitia, 40pp, (4 turns, gain 1 3mt, 1 1mt berth)

@OneirosTheWriter, is that cruiser 2mt berth really supposed to take 6 turns vs the 4 turns of the 3mt+1mt?

Request Ongoing Budget increase 25pp (Roll for success)
Request Refit Program for Miranda class [+1 S,H,L for 20br, 10sr, 1 Year (4 turns)], 6 turns, 35pp (NB: new unit cost for the Miranda will be 60/45)
Request Refit Program for
Constellation class [+1 C,S,D, for 20br, 10sr, 1 Year (4 turns)], 6 turns 30pp (NB: new unit cost for Constellation will be 70/45)

These are each cheaper by 5pp compared to 2308.Q2.

NEW Attempt to muster support for large scale action against the Orion Syndicate, 35pp (Anti-Syndicate actions will occur each turn in Amarkia, Caitian, and Andor Sectors)

So tempting.
 
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