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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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Omake - Galanvant 2.i - Alliterate
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    • Galanvant, Part 2.i
    Part 1 Part 2.ii Part 3
    (A/N: It seems comfort Omakes are our safe space.
    I was writing this yesterday, hoping to do another Then/Now/Then sandwich like Part 1, but... my muse fled. As I'm not sure when it'll return, I'll post this. It's perhaps a little rough. I may get to the Maiden of Dawn 'Now' and second 'Then' parts separately.)

    Loknar Tamash Imperial Fleet Yards, Vranir Project
    Classified 1-1-1-B.

    "...naturally, the Imperial Navy is preparing for a devastating counterstrike on the Outsider feral advance, so you'll be heartened to hear our timelines have been shortened again to ensure we're ready to play our part in the offensive! To that end, I'm sure you all will happily volunteer for double shifts. You don't want to disappoint me, do you…"

    Galan took a deep breath and tried to clear his head of the Lieutenants words to the ratings yesterday, delivered as they were in a cloying haze of pheromones. She had seemed rather on-edge, probably just worrying about friends or family on the front lines. Understandable, Galan hadn't been able to contact his family for several days, but he didn't have time to worry about that. He couldn't disappoint the Lieutenant, or let Commandant Valanoa down.

    He was tired from long shifts, only broken up by the interminable series of security checkpoints guarded by jumpy CyAug Commandos required to move around the Vranir. In the end, Galan had bowed to the inevitable and over the course of a few days quietly moved in to one of the almost-completed crew quarters onboard. He'd tried to find someone to report this decision to, prepared to justify it as staying much closer to the Recreation decks and Mess hall work areas, but Valanoa waved him off with another distracted imprecation to not let her down, and in the end it seemed no-one cared. As he left his improvised quarters that morning, Galan didn't much mind that this new spot would keep him isolated from the increasingly crowded station at Loknar Tamash.

    At the mess hall again, Galan looked over the Long-Term Recreation schematics. They were… very sophisticated? But also very clearly overdesigned- as if a very large committee all wanted to make their mark on this project, for some reason. Holding the holoslate up to the unfinished mess hall and projecting the plan overlay, Galan frowned. There just wasn't enough clearance for the mess hall feedstock lines alongside these… extremely high-capacity power and signals conduits, already occupying what should have been ample space. And with the timelines being shortened again, there was no time to reroute either supply.

    Curious, Galan queried the sophisticated power lines, only to be summarily rebuffed as having insufficient clearance. Well, whatever they were, someone somewhere had made an error and assumed Naval standard conduit specifications would suffice. From what he'd seen while being escorted back and forth, very little was standard onboard this ship.

    Sighing, Galan shone a light down the narrow service tube. No, there was no way the nutrient feedstock lines would fit. Perhaps... if the nutrisynth units were instead located along the aft wall, backing on to the medical labs, they could share the protein feedstock lines? But then… what to do with the aft seating? Galan zoomed the display out a little. Hmm. Why not have some seating here, flanking the primary throughway to the fore recreation lounge? That would break the monotony of the parallel benches, create a more relaxed seating option, facilitate casual crew interactions and perhaps lift spirits. Yes. If he could just rearrange a few more things before the installation crew day shift arrived...

    Smiling despite his fatigue, Galan stat down on an uninstalled Augmentation Supplement Synthesiser, making hasty adjustments to a copy of the plans.

    ----------------------------

    (Edit- apparently some had font colour problems? Edit Edit Edit- reinstating links to Part 1 and Part 2.ii)
     
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    • 10ebbor10 said:
    All that is an existential thread to the Harmony of the Horizon. They have a lot of Skeleton's in the closet, and the Federation will not keep it's anti-brainwashing technology a secret. An effective way to block mind control prevents the Horizon from any further expansion, cripples their diplomatic and espionage effort, and breaks open the closet, revealing an enormous amount of scandals and angering literally all their neighbors.

    So, even if you assume that the technology can not be utilized within the Harmonies borders, it's still an enormous danger to them.
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    Existential threats are not necessarily things you go to war over.
    The Borg were an existential threat to the Federstion; they lived with it. Humanity lives with the threat of nucleat war.
    The Romulans allegedly dissected actual Harmony citizens for their implants.

    Besides, what the fuck are they going to do? Go to war?
    And then find out that every Starfleet ship has been equipped to convert their deflector dish to applicable transmitters and jammers to fuck over Singer control mid combat?

    No, what'll happen is they'll invest in more RnD to improve their implants and build more Overlords cell towers.
    Much less risky than rolling the dice on a war.
     
    Simon_Jester said:
    Crystal​
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    I like this. A lot more than the redacted Thuir omake actually. The tone of defiance instead of helplessness is much more suited to the Star Trek setting.

    And, reflecting on both Singer-mindf*ck snippets, you know what canon episode I was reminded of? TNG: Chains of Command.

    Picard was tortured, in a way that makes it very easy for the viewers to understand the horrors of what he was experiencing, because the Cardassians used real world mechanisms to try and break him. He admits at the end of the episode that he was *this* close to breaking. If Jellico and the Enterprise hadn't come through with a treaty... If they had just been a smidgen late...

    But they weren't. And he didn't. Break.

    That's the kind of narrative that people look for in a Star Trek story. Even when it gets the darkest, it's never supposed to be helpless.


    Also, to add to what some others have been saying before, this also isn't a setting where named characters are killed off "just" to evoke emotion. In Star Trek, death of main characters, even the temporary kind, has always *meant* something. Further, in a Quest, major named characters are carefully cultivated by the questors, and arguably mean even more to us. Any death of such a character should be carefully weighed as to whether it's *truly* necessary, if there's no other way.
     
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    charysa said:
    I like this. A lot more than the redacted Thuir omake actually. The tone of defiance instead of helplessness is much more suited to the Star Trek setting.
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    To be fair, if you're going to pick the mind of a Starfleet officer to intrude upon, Adele Chatsworth may be one of the most unpleasant choices possible.

    She isn't joking with that "Konen think I'm pretty" wisecrack.

    And, reflecting on both Singer-mindf*ck snippets, you know what canon episode I was reminded of? TNG: Chains of Command.

    Picard was tortured, in a way that makes it very easy for the viewers to understand the horrors of what he was experiencing, because the Cardassians used real world mechanisms to try and break him. He admits at the end of the episode that he was *this* close to breaking. If Jellico and the Enterprise hadn't come through with a treaty... If they had just been a smidgen late...

    But they weren't. And he didn't. Break.

    That's the kind of narrative that people look for in a Star Trek story. Even when it gets the darkest, it's never supposed to be helpless.
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    [hug]
     
    (scratches head) Wow, so apparently there was a post that set the "Harmony is invincible! I call hax, this quest is broken!" sentiment off?

    Alright, my take - so they've been difficult for the QMs to write well, and said QMs have felt they're in a bit of a no-win situation. The Harmony are, honestly, not a horrible quest-destroying challenge in my opinion. Serious? Definitely. But not insurmountable.

    On a humorous take, they're a civilization directly controlled by questers; on a serious take, they're kind of a dark mirror of the Federation, where they attempt to force everyone to get along and agree (with the opinion of the Very Wise, Benevolent and Knowledgable Guides).

    The revelation that when meeting the Federation they were searching hard for their counterparts was particularly fascinating to me, actually. They genuinely believe that there's no other way than control, and that the Federation apparently proves otherwise seems to disturb them on a fundamental level - putting the lie to the "this is the only way" justification they've been running with since the beginning.

    I don't see them at all as an insurmountable challenge - to me, a significant part of the challenge will be to triumph without committing atrocities, destroying the 'mute facade' civilization and (a possible take-that-Q-humans/Vulcans/Andorians/etc-have-too-risen-away-from-barbarism-you-smug-sanctimonious-prick bonus point) perhaps even 'rehabilitate' the Singers into relinquishing their power and taking on a better role in their civilization.

    A number of things I'd like to point out on the threat of a hostile Harmony. Not a comprehensive list, but just what comes to my mind:
    1. When it comes to military and industry, the Federation is a peer to the Harmony. Especially if you bring in the ISC and other Great Powers (Romulans are possible... Klingons slightly less so... Cardassians... difficult).
    2. On the implant front - there's going to be a struggle here, but anti-Singer technology (detection, blocking, trapping, etc) would come into play here. Particular scanning protocols to detect the implants, transportation protocols to remove them, psychics trained to sense their presence and so on. Catching infiltrating Singers would be a key part - the implants have, as I understand it, a rather limited range. Similarly, a fight over the vulnerabilities of computer systems could brew - but if Federation computers could be made functionally immune, that severely curtails the avenues a Singer can use to access potentially implanted agents.
    3. Note that the number of Singers is finite - and it feels like a lot of their time is occupied keeping their own civilization adjusted. They also, it seems, cannot replace them at a rapid pace (at least, not without endangering their whole system - a potential failure point if they get stressed too hard, in fact). Every infiltrator, every ship controller and so on captured or neutralized is going to have an impact. Especially if there's counter-moves.
    4. Counter-moves. The 'quiet war' front isn't just going to be fought in the Federation and allied territories. A quite viable tactic would be to put pressure on the Singers' control of their own population. Propaganda that reaches individual 'mutes' could occupy Singer time, for example. Interfering with their 'reach', even if temporary until they destroy the source of the jamming, could work particularly well with that - if, for example, a broadcast of the less-publicized side of the "origin story" ranged around a planet, how much effort would a cleanup involve? Another avenue - can the implant system be hijacked? Not in terms of doing just what the Singers can do - but crude effects, communicating with the person who has them or even cause them to at least partially "burn out"? Some signal that can cause implants to burn themselves out, in fact, could be a quite effective 'aggressive' tactic.
    5. Public Harmony support for any aggressive military action. Yes, Singers can control, but they're less effective at very dramatic changes - "we must invade the Federation" is going to be hard to hold. I suspect it's far more likely that they would need to gradually work their civilization up to such willingness - and thus there wouldn't be open military moves (if there ever are) for years.
    6. The enemy knowing what Singers are and what they do is, I believe, an unprecedented condition for them to face. How used are they to keeping themselves protected, how used are they to using their capabilities without the opponent being unaware? I'm willing to wager that the ISC, for example, would be absurdly nasty in hunting down Singers wherever they find them - and their ruthless paranoia is going to net them some. They've done work into hiding their implants, no doubt - but what's their implants' security like? :p
    7. To be honest, I'm not sure just how extensive experience the Singers have at large-scale warfare. They've got their 'peacekeeping' fleets, but by far their preferred tactics are to infiltrate, manipulate and trick polities into signing up - and then slipping implants in throughout the new population. They've got peer firepower to the Federation - but how well could they actually use it against a power like the Federation? How well can they keep their society together in face of a large-scale war?
    8. How many Singers feel like Cass, or can be persuaded to likewise see the course they're taken as wrong or a dead end? They likely have already observed the 'mistakes' made when one of them makes poor judgements, or as their polity gets larger and larger, so it wouldn't necessarily just rely on being (like Cass) one of the "originals". A schism among Singers would quite change the amount of pressure the Harmony can place upon outside polities. Explorer captains have demonstrated the ability to reason with (and defeat :p) entities that see themselves as gods, certainly...

    Again, to my mind, the nature of the challenge is going to be half in how the Federation (and Starfleet/the players) chooses to try and deal with the problem. Containment? Defense? Coordination with all neighbors to lock the Harmony in? Conquest/"Liberation"? Stall for SCIENCE? Are the Singers to be wiped out? Contained? Persuaded?


    So I feel that those are declaring that the Harmony is an impossible adversary are... panicking a bit prematurely. Yes, the nature of the Harmony as originally envisioned and their evolving role in the storyline is leading to rough spots as the QMs trying to fit things together harmoniously, but this is something doable - and, I feel, doable with style.

    I remember there being a line at some point pre-Harmony (or perhaps early Harmony) where Q warns of an upcoming trial - as I see it, the trial is as much of the Federation's character and principles as of matters of military and sneakiness.
     
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    CircleTheSkies said:
    So I feel that those are declaring that the Harmony is an impossible adversary are... panicking a bit prematurely. Yes, the nature of the Harmony as originally envisioned and their evolving role in the storyline is leading to rough spots as the QMs trying to fit things together harmoniously, but this is something doable - and, I feel, doable with style.
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    Just a question. Did you read the update before it was deleted?

    If not, here's a summary :
    -Thuir (Mind)raped
    - Chen and a few others assassinated.
    - Numerous high ranking Starfleet and Federation officials implicated in a manufactured coup, with Chen being frame as the coup leader.

    CircleTheSkies said:
    • Public Harmony support for any aggressive military action. Yes, Singers can control, but they're less effective at very dramatic changes - "we must invade the Federation" is going to be hard to hold. I suspect it's far more likely that they would need to gradually work their civilization up to such willingness - and thus there wouldn't be open military moves (if there ever are) for years.
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    I don't think this is true. The Harmony has shown the capability of having 2 of their own fleets attack one another, just because they had to give one promising person a convenient trauma. Their ability to manipulate truth and reality is near unparralleled.

    Given that, manufacturing a pretext for a war should be a trivial affair.
     
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    10ebbor10 said:
    Just a question. Did you read the update before it was deleted?

    If not, here's a summary :
    -Thuir (Mind)raped
    - Chen and a few others assassinated.
    - Numerous high ranking Starfleet and Federation officials implicated in a manufactured coup, with Chen being frame as the coup leader.
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    Ah, gracias - because no, I didn't read the update before it was deleted. Feels moderately heavy-handed (in terms of story) as a "desperate attempt to cripple the Federation while the Harmony tries to reposition" move, yeah. In short, activate an unpolished and risky plan to create a disturbance and cast doubt on those who might act on Singer information... which would, likewise, fall apart shortly after managing to do some damage.

    Those details do not, however, shift the basic premise of my post nor any of the enumerated points.

    EDIT: As to Singer abilities, Cass herself has noted how difficult it is to do certain things and have them stick.

    I don't remember offhand the details of the manufactured incident, but I remember my impression at the time was that a certain amount of it was fakery.

    There is also, of course, a rather significant difference of scale between the population of two fleets and that of a whole planet.
     
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    Glassware said:
    No. Because this nonsense today somehow resulted from the GMs thinking we didn't already despise and loathe the Harmony with all our hearts, so they decided to have the Singers off a few beloved characters to make the point. We need to remind the GMs that they've already gotten us to hate the Harmony or we'll keep on having our characters murdered and then raped.
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    You and a bunch of other people have already made it very clear let them work to fix it.
     
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    OneirosTheWriter said:
    I was writing pages of notes over lunch about options and courses of action, and how to get back to basics.
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    You could try changing perspective by putting us in the head of Starfleet intelligence, that way we play the hard hitting covert games against Harmony.
    We can close the Harmony border for 1 year of normal stuff before we pull Pearl Harbour on them.
     
    To the small number of people here trying to bully the GMs into erasing the HoH, your tactic will not work.

    And yes, you may not recognize it as a tactic, but I do. What I didn't realize yesterday is that I've seen this pattern before. (I even participated in it once, to my shame.) It's simple: You pretend that you have been personally harmed by the story. You've been attacked, the author has done something horrible, and unless they destroy their own work you're never going to stop complaining about it. But the truth is, this is not as horrible as you are pretending it is. At best you are over-emphasizing your reactions to try and clobber the writers into making the changes you want to see. At worst you are knowingly lying and spewing vitriol in an deliberate attempt to emotionally harm the writers.

    In this specific case, the problem with the HoH had nothing to do with what the HoH is and everything to do with their implementation. The repeated claims that the mere concept of the HoH is painful willingly ignores everything good about the HoH as antagonists. It's ignoring the many people who were actively praising Iron Wolf's first deleted omake. The GMs may have made a mistake, but they are not deaf nor are they perfect. They have already apologized, and at this point it's irrational to ignore their words on this subject.

    If the story has actually become as terribly painful as many claim, then it would be best for all of you to simply leave the thread. Instead, the repeated posts (and continued presence here) are an attempt at forcing the authors to edit their future writing so as to remove the parts that you dislike. That is what this is: Rather than the characters and events in the story having a chance to deal with the antagonist, you want to take personal action as a reader to erase the antagonists from existence, and the only way to do that is to somehow convince the author to destroy their own work. Hence, the attempts to emotionally bully the GMs.

    I have never seen this kind of tactic actually work. I've seen works and authors that have been continually attacked over and over again, and while the perpetrators caused a lot of grief and suffering for the writers and their fellow readers, it never actually stopped those writers or their stories at all. To use an example, a few hundred thousand words into the (pony) story Project Horizons, many of the tonal changes the author had been building up to over the story upset a portion of his audience. For the next few years, there was an unending stream of abuse towards the author from parts of the community, (much of it, again, claiming the author's writing was causing them continual emotional harm,) even though the story had long since moved on and it was known that the author suffered suicidal depression. That story is now finished, at a monstrous 1.5 million words, and last I heard the author is still occasionally writing other stories. Despite the monstrous effort against it, Project Horizons still ended up being every bit the kind of story that the detractors claimed was an unforgivable sin.

    I say all this not to claim that the current attempts in this thread are anywhere near the kind of crazy I've seen before. It's relatively mild in comparison. Instead, I say all this because this kind of group/herd behavior is harmful to everyone, and needs to be called out whenever possible. If your response to other's arguments for civility is that you need to even more strongly communicate how the story is causing you physical and emotional pain, then the best thing you can do is to take a step back and calm the h-e double hockey sticks down. It's not helping yourself or others to keep visiting the same emotional hotspot over and over again.

    Edit V2: Just a quick warning. I only used Project Horizons as an example off the top of my head, but it's a really dark story that I wouldn't recommend to most people.
     
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    Okay we should all step back and take a deep breath I count at least 5 players who quit cause of this update alone. It feels as if the HOH plot is slowly strangling the quest.
     
    Theunderbolt said:
    You and a bunch of other people have already made it very clear let them work to fix it.
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    If the GMs are surprised by the response to their latest posts, and I think they are, then clearly the attempt to communicate last time didn't work. So I figure some clarity could be useful.

    Leila Hann said:
    1. We put the wagon before the horse in having Horizon start their shenanigans without any solid plans on how the secret could eventually get out.

    2. We fucked up the math in TF beyond, and also ran into unforeseen issues with opposed TF's that made it literally impossible for Horizon to win. And then we stupidly kept trying to correct it and dragged it out longer in the process instead of just rolling with our mistake as we should have.

    3. The above took up more and more gm time and energy until we were just desperate to move things along somehow. Hence Zaraquest. But then we fucked things up the same way as we did with Beyond by realizing we'd made things to easy and trying to scale it back after the fact.

    4. The last few posts were a poorly concieved mishmash as we tried to simultaneously make you guys reeeeally want to beat the stuffing out of the Singers, and to buy an extra year before then in which we could get back to normal TBG stuff because we're as sick of the harmony plotline as you are at this point. The fact that we didn't see the obvious problem with this juxtaposition kinda speaks to how frantic we were getting.
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    The problem with the Harmony pf Horizon arc is that the GMs seem to be trapped in the following cycle:

    1. Federation starts beating Harmony of Horizon
    2. GMs decide that they made it too easy, ramp up difficulty.
    3. Players get mad, throw a fit provide enthusiastic feedback.
    4. GMs apologize, roll back some of it and promise they learned.
    5. Go to step 1

    The playerbase gets increasingly mad about meta-rebalances against them, and increasingly distrustful of the inherent fairness of the game. And the judgement and fundamental honesty of the GMs. This also results in a lowered willingness to tolerate further reversals, especially ones that seem forced. The solution to avoid future blowups is fairly simple: don't do step 2. You think the Federation is having it too easy, you're wrong. If you have a neat trick for the Harmony to play, think very very carefully if you want to actually pull it, and if there's anything the Cardassians or Gorn or literally anyone else can pull instead. If you still think its a good idea, go ahead and do it, but at this point expect at least some of your players to be mad regardless of how justified your plan is. Earning back trust is harder, but my suggestion is to take early, strong steps to regain that trust. Roll back some of your previous difficulty increases by finding a few extra Kiloquads under the couch or having a Horizon fleet eat a negative space wedgie. Offer clear, immediate options to hurt Horizon, badly. They don't have to be painless, but they have to be viable.

    Finally, you wanted people to hate the Singers, and you've succeeded magnificently. But you've also got to deal with the consequences of deliberately enraging the entire playerbase against a party in your quest. Its way, way too late for you to try to insist on moderation when dealing with them. Players can vote against punative measures, but you're basically obligated at this point to offer at least offer the option for a Nurnburg style war crimes trial option at the end of this. Complete with executions. If nothing else, the Padini will try to get something like that, and don't expect the playerbase to go to bat for the Singers at this point.

    Derpmind said:
    To the small number of people here trying to bully the GMs into erasing the HoH, your tactic will not work.

    And yes, you may not recognize it as a tactic, but I do. What I didn't realize yesterday is that I've seen this pattern before. (I even participated in it once, to my shame.) It's simple: You pretend that you have been personally harmed by the story. You've been attacked, the author has done something horrible, and unless they destroy their own work you're never going to stop complaining about it. But the truth is, this is not as horrible as you are pretending it is. At best you are over-emphasizing your reactions to try and clobber the writers into making the changes you want to see. At worst you are knowingly lying and spewing vitriol in an deliberate attempt to emotionally harm the writers.

    In this specific case, the problem with the HoH had nothing to do with what the HoH is and everything to do with their implementation. The repeated claims that the mere concept of the HoH is painful willingly ignores everything good about the HoH as antagonists. It's ignoring the many people who were actively praising Iron Wolf's first deleted omake. The GMs may have made a mistake, but they are not deaf nor are they perfect. They have already apologized, and at this point it's irrational to ignore their words on this subject.

    If the story has actually become as terribly painful as many claim, then it would be best for all of you to simply leave the thread. Instead, the repeated posts (and continued presence here) are an attempt at forcing the authors to edit their future writing so as to remove the parts that you dislike. That is what this is: Rather than the characters and events in the story having a chance to deal with the antagonist, you want to take personal action as a reader to erase the antagonists from existence, and the only way to do that is to somehow convince the author to destroy their own work. Hence, the attempts to emotionally bully the GMs.

    I have never seen this kind of tactic actually work. I've seen works and authors that have been continually attacked over and over again, and while the perpetrators caused a lot of grief and suffering for the writers and their fellow readers, it never actually stopped those writers or their stories at all. To use an example, a few hundred thousand words into the (pony) story Project Horizons, many of the tonal changes the author had been building up to over the story upset a portion of his audience. For the next few years, there was an unending stream of abuse towards the author from parts of the community, (much of it, again, claiming the author's writing was causing them continual emotional harm,) even though the story had long since moved on and it was known that the author suffered suicidal depression. That story is now finished, at a monstrous 1.5 million words, and last I heard the author is still occasionally writing other stories. Despite the monstrous effort against it, Project Horizons still ended up being every bit the kind of story that the detractors claimed was an unforgivable sin.

    I say all this not to claim that the current attempts in this thread are anywhere near the kind of crazy I've seen before. It's relatively mild in comparison. Instead, I say all this because this kind of group/herd behavior is harmful to everyone, and needs to be called out whenever possible. If your response to other's arguments for civility is that you need to even more strongly communicate how the story is causing you physical and emotional pain, then the best thing you can do is to take a step back and calm the h-e double hockey sticks down. It's not helping yourself or others to keep visiting the same emotional hotspot over and over again.
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    And trying to shame others into compliance also won't work. You are doing to them exactly what you are accusing them of doing to the GMs. You might think your actions are justified, but guess what? So do they.
     
    MonkeyTypewriter said:
    And trying to shame others into compliance also won't work. You are doing to them exactly what you are accusing them of doing to the GMs. You might think your actions are justified, but guess what? So do they.
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    You misunderstand. The rational arguments you make aren't any kind of problem. It's the repeated posts claiming that we need to genocide the HoH, or that the GMs don't understand how much people hate the HoH, that are the problem.
     
    *sigh*

    Okay, okay, I think people have repeated the same criticisms and suggestions enough now. No need to beat the dead horse with another dead horse.
     
    Derpmind said:
    You misunderstand. The rational arguments you make aren't any kind of problem. It's the repeated posts claiming that we need to genocide the HoH, or that the GMs don't understand how much people hate the HoH, that are the problem.
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    I mean, I'm in favor of eliminating the HoH as a major power, although I'd prefer to do it by wrecking their fleet and encouraging political balkanization, disharmony if you will, than wholesale massacres of the civilian population.
    Random Member said:
    *sigh*

    Okay, okay, I think people have repeated the same criticisms and suggestions enough now. No need to beat the dead horse with another dead horse.
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    Actually, I think its highly valuable to ensure that the GMs know that its not just one or two or three angry people. Different people repeating criticism has value.
     
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    MonkeyTypewriter said:
    I mean, I'm in favor of eliminating the HoH as a major power, although I'd prefer to do it by wrecking their fleet and encouraging political balkanization, disharmony if you will, than wholesale massacres of the civilian population.
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    Hilariously enough I was thinking the exact same thing when it comes to the horizon. The entire polity needs to be broken up via Balkanization. The Tauni get their people and worlds back. as do the other races suborned by the singers. The only ones I am in favor of destroying are the singers and not the innocent civilians. but the Harmony of Horizon has to go. if we can get to the point where they are balkanized I will be happy and we can absorb them at our leisure while making sure that the Singers can never again be a threat to the galaxy again.
     
    At this point, I really kind of want the mods to say "right, that's it, time out for a week while everyone chills the fuck out". Because it seems like things aren't cooling down on their own.
     
    Ash19256 said:
    At this point, I really kind of want the mods to say "right, that's it, time out for a week while everyone chills the fuck out". Because it seems like things aren't cooling down on their own.
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    actually things are cooling down now. Its not obvious yet but they are. If you feel like you need to leave the thread for a while to cool down than do it but don't keep rehashing the same arguments over and over again.
     
    Leila Hann said:
    What's all this about the goshawnar national sport, now?
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    Random Starfleet officer: The Goshawnar have a sport of beating horse analogues with horse analogues?
    Goshawnar: Oh yea yea we do we do. Best way to relieve stress it is. Also fun but that goes without saying don't it human.
    Random Starfleet Officer: Where did sanity go? I miss it.
     
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