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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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What I mean is that in a shuttle the whole system is likely small enough that it's meaningless to distinguish between a 'warp core' and the warp drive as a whole. And honestly I think that colloquially the terms might be to some extent interchangeable anyway.
 
Christmas Challange to the thread. Write an Omake of Santa visiting the various major capitals of the Federation. For even more bonus points write him visiting the Capitals of the other major powers. Include the amount of confusion it would cause for laughs.

I have this mental image of Starfleet comand tracking Santa going at Warp speed and being all "WTF MATE?".
 
Dirtnap said:
You kidding?

Red Rider Express has a permit to hit all the zones in the Federation.
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Vulcen senor officer: "Fascinating... I thought your Santa Claus was just a myth."

On scene Human duty officer quietly checking his computer: "So did.... Huh.... the computer has the profile marked down as authorized to travel this route... you know what, I'm kicking this upstairs."

Andorian Tactical officer: "You seem awfully calm about this sir."

Human duty officer. "I served on an Explorer. Eventually you just sort of learn to roll with these things."
 
Gravitas Hunt said:
What I mean is that in a shuttle the whole system is likely small enough that it's meaningless to distinguish between a 'warp core' and the warp drive as a whole. And honestly I think that colloquially the terms might be to some extent interchangeable anyway.
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Thats kind of like making no distinction between the reactor and the engine?

Shuttles do not have warp cores, but they do almost certainly use AM for power generation. Milspec ones at least, that seem capable of interstellar, if relatively short ranged, travel.

Warp travel at the speeds that Starfleet ships take for granted takes an ungodly amount of power. Our fusion tech is about good enough for full sized civilian ships to travel to nearby stars, and nearby stars only, in a reasonable timeframe.

Shuttles that are mostly empty space certainly cant do the same without AM.

Edit: A good comparison between fusion powered and warp core AM powered warp travel would be walking and taking a car somewhere.
 
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Enerael said:
Thats kind of like making no distinction between the reactor and the engine?
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Both represent a severe danger. A ship at warp is a hell of a KKV, and we've seen circumstances where warp fields have had destructive interactions with other objects as ships drop out of warp.
 
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Night said:
Both represent a severe danger. A ship at warp is a hell of a KKV, and we've seen circumstances where warp fields have had destructive interactions with other objects as ships drop out of warp.
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No, both impulse (field. There is a fusion torch component.) and warp do not impart kinetic energy. Not a KKV.

As for destructive interactions, that was with exotic materials, not mundane rock or gas.

But yeah, there is a good reason that one is supposed to exit warp on the edge of a star system. Its not like Impulse is slow.

Warp drives are not WMDs, but warp over 6-7 requires energy sources that most certainly are.
 
So, in my mind only Starfleet and other governmental organisations have versions that have an interstellar range. Everyone else can only use them for getting around a solar system quickly.
 
Gravitas Hunt said:
So, in my mind only Starfleet and other governmental organisations have versions that have an interstellar range. Everyone else can only use them for getting around a solar system quickly.
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The difference between interstellar and interplanetary is massive. 3+ orders of magnitude massive.

If all you want is interplanetary, dont use Starfleet model shuttles. That would be like using a sports car to cross a one meter distance.

Even if there was a version of the sports car sold with the cheapest engine and accessories possible, that still does not make it a good idea.
 
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They're not Starfleet model, that's my point. The fuselage is Starfleet-designed, but the internals are completely different.
And even the Starfleet models aren't meant to travel interstellar distances, they're just designed to be capable of it if absolutely necessary.
 
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i think you 2 might be talking past one and other or just not making clear what it is your talking about.

me as a 3th party is totally lost trying to understand what the argument is about really?
 
Enerael said:
No, both impulse (field. There is a fusion torch component.) and warp do not impart kinetic energy. Not a KKV.

As for destructive interactions, that was with exotic materials, not mundane rock or gas.
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Warp fields do cause the object to move relative the universe, and frankly it's irrelevant because then everything else gets subjected to becoming a KKV compared to the warp object. Mass at rest impacting mass in motion. We know that this is a problem because navigational deflectors exist and are necessary to protect the ship from encountering objects at both warp and at impulse, which is also an issue with your characterization of how impulse works. (Never mind that ships typically drop out of warp and don't instantly stop in place, but maintain motion.) An additional issue is that impulse does impart kinetic energy, as we see in various episodes where ships execute slingshot maneuvers or crash into each other.

They were not exotic, merely sensitive.

This of course leaves aside the fact that any object with mass which crosses the boundary of enough physics fuckery to move a megaton+ object without actually imparting kinetic energy to it is going to go through very destructive and energetic changes, making the practical result of hitting someone with your warp field more or less the same.
 
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Gravitas Hunt said:
They're not Starfleet model, that's my point. The fuselage is Starfleet-designed, but the internals are completely different.
And even the Starfleet models aren't meant to travel interstellar distances, they're just designed to be capable of it if absolutely necessary.
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Capable of it in emergency still makes then overpowered by a factor of hundred to thousand, if not more.

You might as well gut most of the internals.

I do not believe it viable for civilians to use this model of a shuttle, no matter how downgraded. You cant make a sportscar into a city car efficiently, it would be far better to just design a new car instead.

Not to mention that Starfleet has massively different requirements for its craft then a civilian going on a trip to another planet in their system, even without considering the drive.

Night said:
Warp fields do cause the object to move relative the universe, and frankly it's irrelevant because then everything else gets subjected to becoming a KKV compared to the warp object. Mass at rest impacting mass in motion. We know that this is a problem because navigational deflectors exist and are necessary to protect the ship from encountering objects at both warp and at impulse, which is also an issue with your characterization of how impulse works. (Never mind that ships typically drop out of warp and don't instantly stop in place, but maintain motion.) An additional issue is that impulse does impart kinetic energy, as we see in various episodes where ships execute slingshot maneuvers or crash into each other.

They were not exotic, merely sensitive.

This of course leaves aside the fact that any object with mass which crosses the boundary of enough physics fuckery to move a megaton+ object without actually imparting kinetic energy to it is going to go through very destructive and energetic changes, making the practical result of hitting someone with your warp field more or less the same.
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Deflectors actually make it clear that warp drive does not impart kinetic energy, because if it did, no shield would protect you from FTL projectiles. Matter entering the warp bubble must be a small fraction of C relative to the ship on average, or warp drives wouldn't be viable.

Impulse includes a fusion torch, its not completely warp field fuckery. Also, ships that lose impulse were often seen coming to a stop more or less, in the TV shows.

Movement is relative, it would be really, really hard to come out of warp at rest compared to you goal, not to mention usually counterproductive. You want to get there after all. At rest compared to original systems star could mean fractional C at the destination, relative to it.

I dont remember the logs in detain, but I dont remember subspace wakes making mundane materials, even in sensitive configurations, go boom.

Not any more, or much more, then if you made a fusion/AM bomb out of your reactor. Which shows that its the energy source that needs regulation, not warp drive.
 
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Enerael said:
Capable of it in emergency still makes then overpowered by a factor of hundred to thousand, if not more.

You might as well gut most of the internals.

I do not believe it viable for civilians to use this model of a shuttle, no matter how downgraded. You cant make a sportscar into a city car efficiently, it would be far better to just design a new car instead.
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That's Starfleet for you! These are the people who, in canon, built a space hotel that could go toe-to-toe with a battleship.

Also, I'd imagine getting a spaceframe as delicate as a shuttle certified for use is an extremely time-intensive process, so hey, we've got this new hull that's obscenely over-engineered, let's let other people use it for other purposes.

Finally, I strongly doubt we can apply out own preconceptions of 'viability' to a polity like the Federation. IRL, many military aircraft are, I believe, developed from civilian airliners. While they won't have the same disparity of capability, we do see that difference in nuclear-powered naval vessels, which have significant range advantages over conventionally-fuelled ships.

Enerael said:
Deflectors actually make it clear that warp drive does not impart kinetic energy, because if it did, no shield would protect you from FTL projectiles. Matter entering the warp bubble must be a small fraction of C relative to the ship on average, or warp drives wouldn't be viable.
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This makes no sense to me.
 
Maelore said:
In TNG the Enterprise D encountered a cloaked planet. Downside of the planetary cloak was it sterilzed the population under it. I don't think it was made clear in the episode if it was a cloak or more of a phase cloak. This is impressive because hiding a planetary body in a system with multiple planets is a neat trick given how they all affect each others orbits.
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Go go 'free' planets ala Lensmen
 
Deflectors are there entirely to deflect FTL projectiles. The TNG technical manual explicitly says it's there to deflect material when travelling at warp. If the main deflector is offline, a ship can't go to warp even if the drive, core, and nacelles are fine.
 
i`m pretty sure you mean the navigational deflectors that apparently run at a much lower power setting and maybe even an other system then the main deflector.

because i have seen ships with failed / overloaded / turned off shields enter warp?

maybe not max warp but at warp
 
Deflectors primary role is diverting any small chunks of matter in the vessels path, both STL and FTL.

If a ship has lost its deflector (see which ever ship of ours it was the initially got stuck in the Technocracy universe) it cannot safely go FTL without another vessel to provide the particle clearing role.
 
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