Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
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The Breen might start using the Dreamers as Target practice. That would of course cause the federation to act in the Dreamers defense.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
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Worst case scenario is the Breen deciding it's time to settle some scores and sending a battle fleet to hit them. A TF in the area could defend the Dreamers, or at least act as a tripwire to make the Breen think twice about whether or not they really want to pull the trigger on an actual fleet. Affiliate or Ally doesn't help that much, unless in the process of doing we get them to migrate deeper into our territory and thus further away from the Breen. It could also give them subspace comms so they could call for help instead of having to courier in news.
That being said, given that the Breen are doing what they're doing and the Dreamers did even less than Courageous did by stumbling across them... I don't see them risking it unless they think we're weak enough to roll over and let them, which is a possibility. If they have enough SIGINT and assets they might be reading our newscasts over the Chrystovian Question and deciding that we might just come to a minor power's defense if given the option, but otherwise all they have to operate on is our reaction to the Courageous incident, in which we did not publicly do very much in response.
To be fair, if Dreamers have non-zero ship stats, the fact that they can field starship equivalent combatants in infantry numbers if push comes to shove, have relatively simple and decentralized logistical and industrial requirements and few if any fixed targets they have to defend could very well make them the toughest nut to crack in known space. If it comes to an existential war, they might surprise you with how well they do.
DREAMER: It is as shame that the mighty Breen Confederacy one day vanished from the pages of galactic history due to their own hubris in making foes.
DREAMER: If only you had finished this Cosmozoan-to-mite universal translator in time, Federation, we might have heard their pleas for mercy and stopped before the end.
The Breen have some respect for the concept of sovereign territory. As well as a practical respect for the cold calculus of force. Allying the Dreamers makes their space somewhat more Federation territory and the official defensive agreement that's supposed to come with an alliance should give the Breen strategic calculus pause.
I now have Task Force Royal set up for maximum anti-Obsidian Order fuckery.
1. Nash & Scott's Consultant Cooperative: 10 pp on purchase, 5 pp per year. Effect: [CLASSIFIED] - smoke 'em out
2. Starfleet Intelligence Infiltration Team: 5pp on Purchase, 5pp per year. Effect: When used with EC panel Captain, enables harder Raid Events. - set 'em up (Captain Mannigan on the Frontier is EC)
3. Yan-Ros Ranger Team: 18pp on Purchase, 10pp per year. Enables Raid Events, adds extremely potent assault asset. - knock 'em down
1. Nash & Scott's Consultant Cooperative: 10 pp on purchase, 5 pp per year. Effect: [CLASSIFIED] - smoke 'em out
2. Starfleet Intelligence Infiltration Team: 5pp on Purchase, 5pp per year. Effect: When used with EC panel Captain, enables harder Raid Events. - set 'em up (Captain Mannigan on the Frontier is EC)
3. Yan-Ros Ranger Team: 18pp on Purchase, 10pp per year. Enables Raid Events, adds extremely potent assault asset. - knock 'em down
Personally, I would've liked to have a TF working on the Ashidi all the way until 500/Membership, so we can start building starbases over their planets.
Shouldn't affiliation already presume some level of defensive aid obligations from the Federation? I mean, with the Chrystovians, they weren't even affiliates.
Here are some foreign policy objectives that we haven't covered in either plan. The kind of things we should keep in mind for the future:
1. Resolve Isolationist Government, any Influence tags that appear, and affiliate the Bolians.
Not only are the Bolians being targeted to bring them into the HoH*, but also we were just told that Isolationist Government means Isolationist (To You), and also we know that the Bolians are one of the only polities that trade with the Breen. Making nice with the Bolians may mean gaining a better understanding of Breen foreign policy.
*which actually may be fine, gotta pick our battles after all
2. Resolve Romulan Influence on the Licori and affiliate the Licori.
Possibly something we might achieve through diplomatic pushes, but we were repeatedly being told that the Romulans were gaining influence and that we may well have to choose between a HoH and Romulan Licori if we did nothing. In the recent SYO their builds were obscured, which seems iffy given that a certain level of observation was a condition to the Treaty of Gaen. Having fought an entire war to keep the Licori from shitting up our part of space, having them go Romulan without at least a strong and friendly Romulan central government to keep their scientific and foreign policy reasonable seems iffy. It would also cut off the Ked Paddah. Also, the key Licori ally the Liao are going to be members after this Snakepit.
3. Ally the Bajoran Diaspora.
In order to further contain the Cardassians and to learn more of the situation on Bajor (which would in turn swing Federation popular opinion next time there's a Cardassian crisis), we may want to improve our relationship with the Diaspora. May be possible to do through pushes.
e: And keep in mind, I was talking about what the Breen see. If they see a formal agreement, that will give them more pause than trying to estimate what the Federation will do through Breen Tea Leaves. Especially since we just set a precedent that we don't do anything absent a formal agreement. Regardless of what we'll actually do.
1. Resolve Isolationist Government, any Influence tags that appear, and affiliate the Bolians.
Not only are the Bolians being targeted to bring them into the HoH*, but also we were just told that Isolationist Government means Isolationist (To You), and also we know that the Bolians are one of the only polities that trade with the Breen. Making nice with the Bolians may mean gaining a better understanding of Breen foreign policy.
*which actually may be fine, gotta pick our battles after all
2. Resolve Romulan Influence on the Licori and affiliate the Licori.
Possibly something we might achieve through diplomatic pushes, but we were repeatedly being told that the Romulans were gaining influence and that we may well have to choose between a HoH and Romulan Licori if we did nothing. In the recent SYO their builds were obscured, which seems iffy given that a certain level of observation was a condition to the Treaty of Gaen. Having fought an entire war to keep the Licori from shitting up our part of space, having them go Romulan without at least a strong and friendly Romulan central government to keep their scientific and foreign policy reasonable seems iffy. It would also cut off the Ked Paddah. Also, the key Licori ally the Liao are going to be members after this Snakepit.
3. Ally the Bajoran Diaspora.
In order to further contain the Cardassians and to learn more of the situation on Bajor (which would in turn swing Federation popular opinion next time there's a Cardassian crisis), we may want to improve our relationship with the Diaspora. May be possible to do through pushes.
Informally, yes, very much so, but formally, no, that's not what affiliation means. When the new affiliate/ally distinction was brought up, we learned that:
The formal mutual defense pact only comes at Ally. The agreement at Affiliate-level is purely informal.
e: And keep in mind, I was talking about what the Breen see. If they see a formal agreement, that will give them more pause than trying to estimate what the Federation will do through Breen Tea Leaves. Especially since we just set a precedent that we don't do anything absent a formal agreement. Regardless of what we'll actually do.
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Also, even if the Romulans are the really nice ones led by Velim, it'll almost certainly be easier for them to crush any revolutionaries and install a figurehead leader rather than address the systemic issues in Licori society so it won't actually improve anything on a sophont suffering scale.
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
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I've questioned the GMs multiple times now on this. Beyond may or may not help resolve their tag, but Beyond will expand to cover them if they get a Horizon Influence tag. Either way, start shoving pushes on them to try to resolve the Isolationist Government option and pray they get some random rolls.
Probably should drop a Report on Licori-Romulan relations. From a number point of view they're 49 away which is easily within the average for 2 pushes, or a push+random roll. If the Romulans don't grab them by then we should be OK.
Two pushes and their associated affiliate rolls +/-.
That tag was 80/100 as of the last snakepit, right? So just one diplomatic push should be enough to get rid of that specific tag.
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
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Right, but pushes hit base relations, then Tags in that order.
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So, we are tentatively planning to diplopush the Arcadian Empire, the Bajoran Diaspora and the Dreamers this coming Snakepit. Who else should we push, or should we use our political points on more infrastructure and starbases?
- Location
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4. Additional TF objectives in line with Federation ideals, not necessarily for tactical advantage.
I'd rather have a number of friendly and morally acceptable neighbors that will never join us, than trying to ally someone that still has a [0/500] Slavery tag on them. The HoH had the moral high ground on us in that pre-vote post earlier; I want to see us take actions separate than gaining an ally or affiliate, and just do the right thing. And yes, additional, not only.
Himmelhand
Giant Sinkhole 2020
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- Midwestern US
We should probably push the Ur'razzi to build up their base relations as we work on their tags, and maybe the Trill. Other potential candidates, particularly instead of the Trill, could be the Hishmeri, the Gorn, or the Bolians.
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I'd suggest the Felis-pushing them to ally, maybe even getting a little boost to their Harmony Influence tag. Also the Bolians, for that isolationist tag.
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Something else to consider for the Snakepit: how many starbases can we order simultaneously without penalties to construction time? And which locations on the Cardassian border take priority for new starbases?
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
No offense but I am hoping that we can get a second UP started this snakepit. With everything going on with the Cardassians, Breen, Horizon and the rest I feel that we need a Second UP shipyard now more than ever so Starbases will have to wait.
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Can we afford additional ship construction?
I'm as much a fan of a second UP as anyone, but whether we can make use of it is questionable, we simply don't have the resources to do so in the next half decade. In fact, a budget increase might be what we need this year, since that will build for the 5-6 years until we do get a UP2 we order in 2325+ online.
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We also need to account for the yards we just acquired through federalization.
Going from memory, so could be wrong.
I think it took something like four years to build UP in the first place - and it only had 4 berths (2x3mt, 2x1mt) when it came online.
It then took 5 main expansions and 3 secondary expansions to get to it's current size, plus the building of the Heavy Industry Park to support it.
So it will take somewhere around 10 years to duplicate UP as it current is.
I think it took something like four years to build UP in the first place - and it only had 4 berths (2x3mt, 2x1mt) when it came online.
It then took 5 main expansions and 3 secondary expansions to get to it's current size, plus the building of the Heavy Industry Park to support it.
So it will take somewhere around 10 years to duplicate UP as it current is.