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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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With the options we chose for the Breen, we aren't actually forced to commit a major force, just a cruiser and something high science. I say we do near the minimum on that for now and let them chew on the Romulans a bit while we wait for diplomacy to fail, in hopes that things can last until federalization or a success elsewhere frees up some resources.
 
We probably need to bite the bullet and call up more ships. Losing to the Harmony or having the Gorn slip away or have the Dreamers get brutalized are all unacceptable outcomes. Moreover, letting the Harmony incite war in our affiliates is unacceptable.

There's a time for Pennypinching. TFs in crises aren't it. The last time we did with the EE, we almost lost everything and got a reroll (that still lost us Saavik) only thanks to the kindness of the GM.

Let's do the right thing. Pull in what we have to. But most importantly, let's not fail.
 
Forgothrax said:
We probably need to bite the bullet and call up more ships. Losing to the Harmony or having the Gorn slip away or have the Dreamers get brutalized are all unacceptable outcomes. Moreover, letting the Harmony incite war in our affiliates is unacceptable.

There's a time for Pennypinching. TFs in crises aren't it. The last time we did with the EE, we almost lost everything and got a reroll (that still lost us Saavik) only thanks to the kindness of the GM.

Let's do the right thing. Pull in what we have to. But most importantly, let's not fail.
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I said it once and I will say it again.
LIGHT THE NASH SIGNAL! STARFLEET CALLS FOR AID! HELP US KA'SHARRAN! YOUR OUR ONLY HOPE!
 
Forgothrax said:
We probably need to bite the bullet and call up more ships. Losing to the Harmony or having the Gorn slip away or have the Dreamers get brutalized are all unacceptable outcomes. Moreover, letting the Harmony incite war in our affiliates is unacceptable.

There's a time for Pennypinching. TFs in crises aren't it. The last time we did with the EE, we almost lost everything and got a reroll (that still lost us Saavik) only thanks to the kindness of the GM.

Let's do the right thing. Pull in what we have to. But most importantly, let's not fail.
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With what ships and PP? I want to agree with you, but I literally don't think we are able.
 
brmj said:
With what ships and PP? I want to agree with you, but I literally don't think we are able.
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PP is money. Money is made to be spent. Sometimes you have to tighten the belt far more than you want to in order to get the job done.

I know that the pain of a tight Snakepit is real. I know that it would suck to draw down a massive task force, and that Federalizing will fix a lot of our problems. But so much is getting set on fire I'm not sure that we can afford to wait. Berths and expansions and colonies may have to wait. All I know is, those can be bought in the future. A war between the minors and the death toll it will reap cannot be so simply reversed. Nor can we save Innocents from the dark designs of the HoH once they have been drawn into it's maw.

Edit: As an example, how much PP would we have willingly burned to reverse things if the EE had killed our task force and joined up with the Pact? How much would we have paid to generate more effort so Celos wouldn't have happened and the Treaty that made the Pact's members inviolate never signed?

You always pay the price eventually. And fixing things always costs more in the end.
 
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Forgothrax said:
PP is money. Money is made to be spent. Sometimes you have to tighten the belt far more than you want to in order to get the job done.

I know that the pain of a tight Snakepit is real. I know that it would suck to draw down a massive task force, and that Federalizing will fix a lot of our problems. But so much is getting set on fire I'm not sure that we can afford to wait. Berths and expansions and colonies may have to wait. All I know is, those can be bought in the future. A war between the minors and the death toll it will reap cannot be so simply reversed. Nor can we save Innocents from the dark designs of the HoH once they have been drawn into it's maw.
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We desperately need our diplopushes to unfuck all of this for the next time around, and I for one had been assuming we were already cutting most of the expansion. Are things less tight than I thought they were somehow?
 
brmj said:
We desperately need our diplopushes to unfuck all of this for the next time around, and I for one had been assuming we were already cutting most of the expansion. Are things less tight than I thought they were somehow?
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Diplopushes help, but if we really need to we can minimize how many we use. Felis, OSA, Licori, done.
 
brmj said:
We desperately need our diplopushes to unfuck all of this for the next time around, and I for one had been assuming we were already cutting most of the expansion. Are things less tight than I thought they were somehow?
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Things are so tight that quite frankly I will be amazed if we even manage to get the colonies and Diplo pushes in the next snakepit that we need to buy. and by that I mean only the colonies and Diplo pushes and nothing else on the list.
 
Okay, this is another updated plan draft I'm working on. It will need some modification, both to peel loose ships for the Breen.

THIS IS ONLY A BASIS FOR FURTHER ANALYSIS. UNDER THE CURRENT ITERATION...

We combine Task Force Royal (Gorn) into Task Force Unity (end the war). I still haven't allocated ships for the Breen.

The hole in the HBZ squadron is covered by a Centaur-B (better than a Rennie for event response) from Vulcan Sector, which leaves two ships there, plus the explorer and two cruisers in the RBZ under mutual support.

New construction is allocated to expand Task Force Unity when it comes out of Utopia Planitia.

USS Torch is sent to reinforce Chekov with its powerful new zappitude. Chekov trades it for his Turtleship. The Turtleship is in turn sent to the Gorn, who will hopefully think it is the cuddliest thing they have ever seen. :p

I trimmed three attachments that I thought were superfluous or at least unwarranted expenses in this time of tight PP budgets, but that isn't core to the plan.


Retain 16 points of Member Ships - 20pp

Maintain following TF attachments:
Starfleet Tactical Brass: 0pp per year. Enables coordination events with other powers – 0pp [BEYOND]
Molchenek-Danashad Consulting: 3 pp per year. Effect: +1 to the first diplomatic roll involving a capitalist society each quarter – 3pp [BEYOND]
Lt. Sadd-Har's Cadet Field Training Team: 3 pp per year. Effect: Increased experience gain for missions involving S rolls. - 3pp [BOLDLY]
Ambassador Sarek: 5 pp per year. Effect: Reroll the first failed diplomatic roll each quarter; add +1 to the reroll. - 5pp [was SHIELD; move to UNITY]
FDS Diplomatic Team. Cost: 5pp per year. Effect: Reroll first failed Diplomatic Roll each quarter – 5pp [FORWARD]
Langa Mbeki: 5 pp per year. Effect: +2 to the lowest diplomatic roll each quarter - 5pp [FORWARD]


Discontinue following TF attachment:
Starfleet Intelligence Analysis Team: 5pp per year. Effect: 25% chance of a free Intelligence Report related to the Task Force's Mission each year. - 5pp [FORWARD]

To maintain current attachments, MINUS the intel team = 21pp

New Purchases:
-NONE
New purchases = 0pp

Total pp cost of Task Force Deployment = 41pp
(10 points freed up from attachments)

16 points of member ships drafted:
- Explorers: 1 Caitian Excelsior-A
- Cruisers: 2 Apiata Little Queenship, 1 Rigellian Turtleship, 2 Orion Nelhiar Savings & Loan Enforcer Cruisers, 1 Gaeni Tech-Cruiser-A
- Frigates: 4 Apiata Stingers, 1 United Earth Centaur-B, 5 Betazoid Centaur-B, 2 Tellarite Centaur-B, 1 Amarkian Anacail, 2 Amarkian Centaur-B, 1 Andorian Centaur-B

Task Force: Beyond
-Mission: Mission: Remove Horizon Influence from Licori, Felis, and from OSA.
-Commander: Nash ka'Sharren: +1C on flagships, reroll the first failed diplomacy roll each year

-Attachments:
Free FDS Diplomatic Team attachment
Starfleet Tactical Brass: 0pp per year. Enables coordination events with other powers
Molchenek-Danashad: 3 pp per year. Effect: +1 to the first diplomatic roll involving a capitalist society each quarter
Sam Jones: 10 br on purchase, 10 br per year. Effect: Gain both sr & relations on trade summit missions for this task force.

Ships 2323.Q1:
Explorers: 2 Starfleet Excelsior-A [Salnas (B)], Endurance (B)], 1 Caitian Excelsior-A [Hrvass], 1 Starfleet Constitution-A [Cheron (V)]
Cruisers: 2 Apiata Little Queenship, 2 Orion Nelhiar Savings & Loan Enforcer Cruisers [OUS Nelhiar's Pride, Nelhiar's Honor]
Frigates: 2 Starfleet Centaur-B [Chinook, Zephyr (B)], 2 Betazoid Centaur-Bs, 4 Apiata Stingers, 1 United Earth Centaur-B, 2 Tellarite Centaur-B
NEW: 1 Starfleet Centaur-B [Gale (B)] in Q2
REMOVED: 1 Starfleet Centaur-B [Zephyr (B)], 1 Betazoid Centaur-B, to join Task Force Unity
Notes: Drop to 17 ships, 18 in Q2. Several of the cruisers have been switched out for Centaur-Bs.

Task Force: Boldly
-Mission [Explore the Adazzi Gulf]
-Straak - +15 BR/SR on the first resource gain of each quarter

-Attachments:
All Pyllix Geological Institute Team. Cost: Free.
Lt. Sadd-Har's Cadet Field Training Team: 3 pp per year. Effect: Increased experience gain for missions involving S rolls.
Tellar Prime Academy of Mineral Science Team: 10 rp per year. Effect: +5BR or +5SR on the first resource gain each quarter
Henn-Makad Mineral Engineering Institute Team: 10 rp per year. Effect: +2 on the first mapping roll each quarter.
Igata Nikelda: 10 rp per year. Effect: Increased chance of finding resource colony sites.
NEW Vulcan Science Academy Science Team. Cost: 10 rp on Purchase, 5 rp per year. Effect: Reroll first failed Science test involving an anomaly per quarter.

Ships 2323.Q1:
Explorers: 1 Excelsior-A [Excalibur]
Cruisers: NEW 1 Gaeni Tech-Cruiser-A, NEW 1 Constellation-A [Stalwart (B)]
Frigates: 1 Kepler [Kepler], 1 Miranda-A [Dryad (B)], 1 Oberth [Hawking (B)], 1 Forager (free with mission
Notes: Added Gaeni ship and Stalwart as reinforcements. TF is now 7 ships strong.

Task Force: Forward
-Mission: [Discourage attacks on the Trill]
-Commander: Pavel Chekov - Nullifies the first 2pts of crew casualties per year, reroll the first failed Away Team Combat each year

-Attachments:
FDS Diplomatic Team. Cost: 5pp on Purchase, 5pp per year. Effect: Reroll first failed Diplomatic Roll each quarter;
Langa Mbeki: 5 pp on purchase, 5 pp per year. Effect: +2 to the lowest diplomatic roll each quarter
NEW Yoyodyne Research Team: 10 rp per year. Enables reroll on first failed D-Test each quarter.
REMOVED Starfleet Intelligence field team.


-2323.Q1 Ships:
Explorers: 1 Excelsior-A (6) [Thirishar (B)]
Cruisers: STO Audacious [Serene], 2 STO Constrictors, NEW 1 Renaissance [Torch (pa)] REMOVED 1 Rigellian Turtleship
Frigates: 2 STO Arquilla, 1 Amarki Centaur-B, NEW 1 Amarki Anacail
Notes: TF is 9 ships strong.

Rationale: Torch can handily outfight a Turtleship, and the nature of her mission as part of Chekov's task force means she's less likely to be, say, hosting alien 'diplomats' who want a look at her intriguing new phaser arrays. The Turtleship will be assigned to Task Force Unity; the Rigelians are relatively local to that region of space and may be able to help in useful ways.

[NEW] Task Force: Unity (The OSA Corps Task Force)
-Mission: Resolve [Corps are Lying to Us 0/100] tag on OSA, [On the Brink of War N/A] tags on OSA, Licori and Laio.
-Commander: Michel Thuir - Reroll first event failure each quarter

-Attachments:
Ambassador Sarek: 5 pp per year. Effect: Reroll the first failed diplomatic roll each quarter; add +1 to the reroll.

-2323.Q1 Ships:
Explorers: Avandar (B), Rru'adorr (B), Pleezirra (B)
Cruisers: 1 Renaissance [Justice], 1 Rigellian Turtleship, 2 Starfleet Renaissances (new construction in Q2)
Frigates: 1 Amarkian Centaur-B, 1 Andorian Centaur-B, 4 Betazoid Centaur-B, 1 Starfleet Centaur-B [Zephyr (B)]
Notes: TF is 15 ships strong, growing to 17 with arrival of reinforcement Rennies in Q2

(Thuir chosen because we're gonna need those rerolls)

(This seems like a good place to send ships full of well-intentioned but peaceful psychics who live relatively nearby.)

[NEW] Task Force: Neighborhood Watch (The Breen Task Force)
-Mission: To carry out the opening stages of the reconnaissance response to the Breen, including monitoring the movements of their warfleet, reinforcements from the Breen core worlds, and communications surveillance, a separate task force is required.
-Commander: Diego Zaardmani - +1S on Flagship, Re-roll first failed Science check each year

-Attachments:
NONE

-2323.Q1 Ships:
Cruisers: 1 Renaissance [Emancipation (B)]
Frigates: 1 Oberth [T'Mir (V)]
Other: 2 Starfleet Intelligence ships: SS Rocinante and SS Winter
Notes: TF is 4 ships strong

(Zaardmani chosen because this is going to be a very SCIENCE mission)
(Emancipation is in the area and almost unique in being a Blooded Rennie, as such she can do a better job of standing up to Breen cruisers and battleships than most other vessels in our fleet except for full-up explorers)

Changes to Current Patrol Sectors:
Send Inspire (Oberth) to RBZ
Send Tarrak (Excelsior-A) to HBZ from defunct Themis Border Zone
Send Yukikaze (Centaur-B) to HBZ
Send Lakota (Excelsior-A) to LBZ
Send Valiant (Constitution-B) to LBZ from defunct Themis Border Zone
Send Insight (Renaissance) to Ferasa Sector from defunct Themis Border Zone

Additional Ships in Later quarters:

2323.Q2 changes: 1 Centaur-A [Gale (B)] exits refit, 2 Renaissance [Ana Font Berth 1, Intazzi Berth 1] completes construction,
Net changes: +1 Centaur-B, +2 Renaissances.
The Centaur-B goes to Task Force Harmony; the Rennies go to Task Force Royal.

2323.Q4 changes: 1 Centaur-B [Oreasa Berth 2] completes
Net changes: +1 Centaur-B
Suggest sending this Centaur-B to Vulcan Sector.

EDIT: Well, I hope everyone's happy with it being all spoilerized now, but I'm worried that this will cause people to simply not read it.
 
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brmj said:
With the options we chose for the Breen, we aren't actually forced to commit a major force, just a cruiser and something high science. I say we do near the minimum on that for now and let them chew on the Romulans a bit while we wait for diplomacy to fail, in hopes that things can last until federalization or a success elsewhere frees up some resources.
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I understand wanting to let the Breen munch on the Romulans, but we have made a commitment here. Doing the bare minimum invites catastrophe on a Major Power who we have only just begun to build a repore with.

I suggest that we concentrate on shoring up our commitments with the Romulan/Breen war and our diplomatic efforts with the Horizon diplomatic conflicts. The war between our affiliates needs to be addressed, but I think we have a much better chance of doing that from the position of strength that Federalization will afford us.

As for the Gorn I think for now we need to put off our diplomatic efforts. We are stretched too thin as it is and need time to resolve the current group of crisis before we address this one. If that means the Gorn go over to the Klingons or become part of the Ashalla Pact then so be it. We have bigger concerns.
 
We really need to talk to those morons coreward, show them our data from the ISC and tell them to stop playing into the Harmony's hands. I see no reason to play around here, just pull their top executives into meetings and tell them. We can scan them to see if they are pod people or whatever the Harmony does to people too.

The Licori are luckily still a monarchy so they can pull away from war on the spot if their Emperor believes us (and if rogue nobles get into shenanigans he can have them taken care of as long as it's not all of them at once), the other two we'll have to yell at more, but it should be viable.
 
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In terms of sector garrisons... observations from event response in 2322 (see event log).
  • HBZ got overwhelmed with events in Q3 and was busy with events in Q1 and Q4.
  • Rethelia got overwhelmed in both Q3 and Q4 (most infamously the PD violation).
  • Apinae got overwhelmed in Q2 and had problems in Q4 due to Exeter getting damaged in Q3.
  • Ferasa also was busy at 2 events per quarter, but at 3 garrisoned ships, was never overwhelmed.
  • With Themis Border Zone going away, we have one less border zone that supports Apinae, Alukk, Rethelia, and Ferasa sectors (and CBZ). edit: And now CBZ supports Rethelia sector again.
  • GBZ interestingly enough only had 2 events last year, and is our most garrisoned border zone at 6 ships.

My recommendations:
  • Add another ship to HBZ
  • Add another high D ship to CBZ to help support Apinae and Rethelia sectors
  • Add another ship to Rethelia sector (especially in light of recent and high profile difficulties)
  • Consider drawing down a ship from GBZ, but I understand if we want to keep 6 ships there as deterrence
  • Worry about Ferasa sector
 
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My suggestion from looking at the plan @SimonJester has produced would be to pull Excalibur from Boldly.
 
QuarkDS9 said:
I understand wanting to let the Breen munch on the Romulans, but we have made a commitment here. Doing the bare minimum invites catastrophe on a Major Power who we have only just begun to build a repore with.
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Remember, we're committed to a strategy of reconnaissance and diplomatic outreach. That isn't something that involves us throwing a horde of ships at the problem. A handful of sneaky, efficient ships that can ghost in and figure out what's going on will be considerably more helpful, compared to a big loud task force that has no clear mission because we're not willing to attack the Breen ourselves.

I suggest that we concentrate on shoring up our commitments with the Romulan/Breen war and our diplomatic efforts with the Horizon diplomatic conflicts. The war between our affiliates needs to be addressed, but I think we have a much better chance of doing that from the position of strength that Federalization will afford us.
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Um, from the sound of it the war will break out later this year. Federalization may not do us any good, because by the time it happens it just means we have 100C or so more ships to put into a fleetball to fight in the war, not that we manage to prevent it.

As for the Gorn I think for now we need to put off our diplomatic efforts. We are stretched too thin as it is and need time to resolve the current group of crisis before we address this one. If that means the Gorn go over to the Klingons or become part of the Ashalla Pact then so be it. We have bigger concerns.
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Agreed. Or rather, more urgent concerns.

lbmaian said:
In terms of sector garrisons... observations from event response in 2322 (see event log).
  • HBZ got overwhelmed with events in Q3 and was busy with events in Q1 and Q4.
  • Rethelia got overwhelmed in both Q3 and Q4 (most infamously the PD violation).
  • Apinae got overwhelmed in Q2 and had problems in Q4 due to Exeter getting damaged in Q3.
  • Ferasa also was busy at 2 events per quarter, but at 3 garrisoned ships, was never overwhelmed.
  • With Themis Border Zone going away, we have one less border zone that supports Apinae, Alukk, Rethelia, and Ferasa sectors (and CBZ). edit: And now CBZ supports Rethelia sector again.
  • GBZ interestingly enough only had 2 events last year, and is our most garrisoned border zone at 6 ships.

My recommendations:
  • Add another ship to HBZ
  • Add another high D ship to CBZ to help support Apinae and Rethelia sectors
  • Add another ship to Rethelia sector (especially in light of recent and high profile difficulties)
  • Consider drawing down a ship from GBZ, but I understand if we want to keep 6 ships there as deterrence
  • Worry about Ferasa sector
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What are your thoughts on my plans? I can reshuffle ships differently if you like. Check the bottom spoiler.

Raw90 said:
My suggestion from looking at the plan @SimonJester has produced would be to pull Excalibur from Boldly.
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We could do that. On the other hand, Excalibur is the only ship in that task force which is (fairly) reliably capable of chasing off a Cardassian cruiser, and since the Cardassians are poking around over there, I'd be hesitant to do that. I'd rather send cruisers and explorers from elsewhere.
 
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