Whoops! You are correct.
Better place to tuck the superfreighters would be Industrial then, again on the basis of centralization and it already being big.
Might need to throw up some new warehouses though.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
Better place to tuck the superfreighters would be Industrial then, again on the basis of centralization and it already being big.
Might need to throw up some new warehouses though.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
Hmm..
Yeah, those extra options aren't necessary. I'll cut it down to having the alternate for Starfleet Security only.
Write ins, Mark X:
[X][CARGO] Mix of Starfleet's Auxiliary Shipyard expansion and assigning Starfleet general purpose shipyard berths, supplemented by Member yards like now
[X][CARGO] Write in: A Self-supporting Fleet
-[X] Aim to have Starfleet's Fleet Support loop logistics requirements fully covered, the Feeder loop 75% covered, and the Industrial loop 75% covered by 2322.
-[X] Build a small number of dedicated auxiliary berths and assign general purpose berths as necessary, with member yards used if there are an opening.
[X][PEACE] Write-in: Ranger Corps
-[X][STAR] The Starfleet Ranger Corps will be a new command directly reporting to Commander, Starfleet.
[ ][PEACE] Write-in: Grow a Ranger Corps under Starfleet Security
-[ ][STAR] The Starfleet Ranger Corps will be a new command under Starfleet Tactical, and will be subordinate to Starfleet Security until its size increases to a point where a separate command is warranted
[X][GEAR] Should be more in line with Caitian Frontier Police
[X][SIZE] Should be larger, 12 battalions
[X][SUPPORT] Write-in: Metric Tonnes of Pennies
-[X] Design a new Fast Transport class suitable for transporting small and bulk cargo, as well as people.
-[X] Runabouts and Shuttles
-[X] Use Sol's Heavy Industrial Complex for production
Last edited:
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
TBH, I'm fine with reaching the full transport-neutral requirement by 2322. It's doable with a combination of berth building and member fleet berth usage.
I'd also actually be fine if they had a "flagship" of a Constellation
But really, for all we know there are already troopship designs. The Ked Paddah had some, and the Yan-Ros Rangers are clearly fine with their current ships. They might just be classified as civilian ships, and we know that civilian ships are actually a broad category of ships, originally intended as a tax on member fleet shipyards.The explicit usage of the Heavy Industrial Park is also unnecessary - as long as enough transport/equipment construction finishes by the time the force is operational (edit: to be specific, trained), we're fine.
Last edited:
Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
That seems like an impressive leap of logic.
How will you achieve that by giving it to a branch that has no experience managing this large a group of people at once?
Actually we do not know that. MACO Leadership might or might not been part of the plot, MACO rank and file might or might not, nor do we know at which levels. it could be the MACOs simply got the axe because politics and some felt it was a good point to do so, in the aftermath of Khitomer.
So... your post is speculation and doesn't work as a counterargument to my point that was MACOS were part of Starfleet, and part of the TO&E not too long ago, so it shouldn't be one now.
Which values? because be careful here you could end up instituting a thought police or maybe by restricting access to the peoples that are old federation hands? sorry, it strikes me as a terribly unfederation thing to do.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
The explicit goal is there so that we can move quickly, but without haste. Nothing in the actual vote suggests that we can't go completely neutral if possible; it just states that we should try for 75%, 75%, and 100% coverage of the feeder, industrial, and fleet support loops respectively. If we can go neutral with SF berths and open berth time alone, I say go for it. If we can't without bumping, then let's not bump.TBH, I'm fine with reaching the full transport-neutral requirement by 2322. It's doable with a combination of berth building and member fleet berth usage.
I'd also actually be fine if they had a "flagship" of a Constellation
The explicit usage of the Heavy Industrial Park is also unnecessary - as long as enough transport/equipment construction finishes by the time the force is operational, we're fine.
The explicit usage of the HIP is to avoid adding to existing construction times, like the original option.
Also, I believe UE MACOs deployed on troop transports to Ixaria. We knocked down Iron Hail so that the convoys could get through. And then we had a Nash Interrupt.
- Location
- Earth: Universe Meta - 1
Edit to go with AlphaDelta's vote.
[X][PEACE] Write-in: Ranger Corps
-[X][STAR] The Starfleet Ranger Corps will be a new command directly reporting to Commander, Starfleet.
[X][GEAR] Should be more in line with Caitian Frontier Police
[X][SIZE] Should be larger, 12 battalions
[X][SUPPORT] Write-in: Metric Tonnes of Pennies
-[X] Design a new Fast Transport class suitable for transporting small and bulk cargo, as well as people.
-[X] Runabouts and Shuttles
-[X] Use Sol's Heavy Industrial Complex for production
[X][PEACE] Write-in: Ranger Corps
-[X][STAR] The Starfleet Ranger Corps will be a new command directly reporting to Commander, Starfleet.
[X][GEAR] Should be more in line with Caitian Frontier Police
[X][SIZE] Should be larger, 12 battalions
[X][SUPPORT] Write-in: Metric Tonnes of Pennies
-[X] Design a new Fast Transport class suitable for transporting small and bulk cargo, as well as people.
-[X] Runabouts and Shuttles
-[X] Use Sol's Heavy Industrial Complex for production
Last edited:
Fixing my vote to consolidate on Nix's option for logistics.
[X][CARGO] Mix of Starfleet's Auxiliary Shipyard expansion and assigning Starfleet general purpose shipyard berths, supplemented by Member yards like now
[X][PEACE] Place under Starfleet Tactical
-[X][STAR] A robust organizational charter in consultation with the Pacifists, including authorized mission types and the requirements for deployment on each. Organic ships.
[X][GEAR] Should be more in line with Caitian Frontier Police
[X][SIZE] Should be larger, 12 battalions
[X][SUPPORT] Runabouts and shuttles (will require temporary access to Starfleet Shipyard Industrial Command resources, causing some delay)
It was Ked Paddah troops, as it was their operation. UE MACOs were used on one of the House Kottoren colonies.
Ugh, I know I spelled that wrong.
[X][CARGO] Mix of Starfleet's Auxiliary Shipyard expansion and assigning Starfleet general purpose shipyard berths, supplemented by Member yards like now
[X][PEACE] Place under Starfleet Tactical
-[X][STAR] A robust organizational charter in consultation with the Pacifists, including authorized mission types and the requirements for deployment on each. Organic ships.
[X][GEAR] Should be more in line with Caitian Frontier Police
[X][SIZE] Should be larger, 12 battalions
[X][SUPPORT] Runabouts and shuttles (will require temporary access to Starfleet Shipyard Industrial Command resources, causing some delay)
It was Ked Paddah troops, as it was their operation. UE MACOs were used on one of the House Kottoren colonies.
Ugh, I know I spelled that wrong.
Last edited:
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
That's unnecessary haggling though, and N'Gir isn't going to appreciate it. If we can do it (and get some benefit out of it with new general purpose berths), then we might as meet the letter of the original requirements, if not its half-assed original implementation.
How does that help at all? I mean, suppose that the HIP working on runabouts and such can avoid the 1qtr build time penalty (which is still speculation) - then that HIP likely isn't working on the existing ship builds, and we'd get a 1qtr build time penalty per year anyway!
You're confusing Gammon with Ixaria. Ked Paddah were responsible for the invasion of Ixaria, while our TF1 (and eventually TF2) supported them. In Gammon, TF3 and sneaky intel folks got us control of Gammon orbit, and member fleet armies like the MACOs were responsible for the invasion.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
[X][CARGO] Mix of Starfleet's Auxiliary Shipyard expansion and assigning Starfleet general purpose shipyard berths, supplemented by Member yards like now
[X][PEACE] Place under Starfleet Tactical
-[X][STAR] A robust organizational charter in consultation with the Pacifists, including authorized mission types and the requirements for deployment on each. Organic ships.
[X][GEAR] Should be more in line with Amarkian Gendarmes
[X][SIZE] As Proposed, 9 battalions
[X][SUPPORT] Runabouts and shuttles (will require temporary access to Starfleet Shipyard Industrial Command resources, causing some delay)
So, this pretty neatly resolves our major issue with N'Gir's auxiliary building proposal; however, I can't wait for her reaction when, for all our pushback, we're pretty much ok with the peacekeeping force.
[X][PEACE] Place under Starfleet Tactical
-[X][STAR] A robust organizational charter in consultation with the Pacifists, including authorized mission types and the requirements for deployment on each. Organic ships.
[X][GEAR] Should be more in line with Amarkian Gendarmes
[X][SIZE] As Proposed, 9 battalions
[X][SUPPORT] Runabouts and shuttles (will require temporary access to Starfleet Shipyard Industrial Command resources, causing some delay)
So, this pretty neatly resolves our major issue with N'Gir's auxiliary building proposal; however, I can't wait for her reaction when, for all our pushback, we're pretty much ok with the peacekeeping force.
Last edited:
You know what, fine, I'll mostly consolidate. Though I maintain we should go a bit heavier on the armor for the peacekeepers and am voting accordingly.
[X][CARGO] Mix of Starfleet's Auxiliary Shipyard expansion and assigning Starfleet general purpose shipyard berths, supplemented by Member yards like now
[X][PEACE] Place under Starfleet Tactical
-[X][STAR] A robust organizational charter in consultation with the Pacifists, including authorized mission types and the requirements for deployment on each. Organic ships.
[X][GEAR] Should be more in line with Amarkian Gendarmes
[X][SIZE] Should be larger, 12 battalions
[X][SUPPORT] Runabouts and shuttles, supplied by expanding regular production rather than a temporary rush (pp cost, possible delays in deployment)
[X][CARGO] Mix of Starfleet's Auxiliary Shipyard expansion and assigning Starfleet general purpose shipyard berths, supplemented by Member yards like now
[X][PEACE] Place under Starfleet Tactical
-[X][STAR] A robust organizational charter in consultation with the Pacifists, including authorized mission types and the requirements for deployment on each. Organic ships.
[X][GEAR] Should be more in line with Amarkian Gendarmes
[X][SIZE] Should be larger, 12 battalions
[X][SUPPORT] Runabouts and shuttles, supplied by expanding regular production rather than a temporary rush (pp cost, possible delays in deployment)
Last edited:
- Location
- Central Standard Time
I'm also consolidating around Nix's vote. Previous post edited.
/shrug
Kortennon, btw.
Edited to consolidate on Nix's vote.
Oneiros confirmed that it's a valid use of the HIP 3 posts down from the threadmark.
The difference is that it's only a penalty that applies to Sol, and might not apply at all, if Oneiros decides to handwave it and say that the HIP can produce all of it using spare capacity.
My vote, no idea if this is feeding into someone's bandwagon
Get another Aux yard somewhere, but build the surge N'Gir wants in existing berths - I expect this to cost us some PP but so be it.
[X][CARGO] Mix of Starfleet's Auxiliary Shipyard expansion and assigning Starfleet general purpose shipyard berths, supplemented by Member yards like now
The Diplomatic Service is not a good fit, and there are logical reasons why it fits better under Starfleet. There are logical and emotional reasons for Independent. In the end I'm going for keeping it under the one existing body that has experience.
But I'd like them to have their own dedicated shipping options, so we might need to add to the logistics surge to cover that.
[X][PEACE] Place under Starfleet Tactical
-[X][STAR] A robust organizational charter in consultation with the Pacifists, including authorized mission types and the requirements for deployment on each. Organic ships.
If I remember correctly, this is the medium level equipment option. I'd like some survivability, but not the super heavy option.
[X][GEAR] Should be more in line with Andorian Peacekeepers
[X][SIZE] As Proposed, 9 battalions
I don't like the delay, but if we are going to have them, they better be able to handle their own landings and short trips organically.
[X][SUPPORT] Runabouts and shuttles (will require temporary access to Starfleet Shipyard Industrial Command resources, causing some delay)
Get another Aux yard somewhere, but build the surge N'Gir wants in existing berths - I expect this to cost us some PP but so be it.
[X][CARGO] Mix of Starfleet's Auxiliary Shipyard expansion and assigning Starfleet general purpose shipyard berths, supplemented by Member yards like now
The Diplomatic Service is not a good fit, and there are logical reasons why it fits better under Starfleet. There are logical and emotional reasons for Independent. In the end I'm going for keeping it under the one existing body that has experience.
But I'd like them to have their own dedicated shipping options, so we might need to add to the logistics surge to cover that.
[X][PEACE] Place under Starfleet Tactical
-[X][STAR] A robust organizational charter in consultation with the Pacifists, including authorized mission types and the requirements for deployment on each. Organic ships.
If I remember correctly, this is the medium level equipment option. I'd like some survivability, but not the super heavy option.
[X][GEAR] Should be more in line with Andorian Peacekeepers
[X][SIZE] As Proposed, 9 battalions
I don't like the delay, but if we are going to have them, they better be able to handle their own landings and short trips organically.
[X][SUPPORT] Runabouts and shuttles (will require temporary access to Starfleet Shipyard Industrial Command resources, causing some delay)
Last edited:
Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
I feel that we shouldn't equip them all the same, we could use some specialization, or we need to know if we can upgrade or downgrade the level of armor/weaponry/equipment, after all, we shouldn't lock down their equipment needs before we send them to the field...
- Location
- Central Standard Time
(It is.)
For the first one, we're consolidating on Nix's write-in.
For the peacekeepers/Ranger Corps, the other options are my write-in (direct report to Sulu or direct report to Thuir) and Consult the Pacifists
For support, I'd like to say that my write-in is the best, since it limits the impact of the delay, and uses our new HIP.
[/SIZE]
- Location
- Germany
I don't really see the difference between Nix's write-in vote:
And this starndard vote option:
- Location
- Central Standard Time
It's not heavily expanding the auxiliary yards, and instead goes for a balanced mix of new berths, general purpose berths, and free member berths.
Status quo, but better.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
A bit less Aux Shipyard expansion and instead builds more cargo in any free berths that we have.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
I didn't read that as a confirmation. Just that the HIP would help with construction of equipment, which isn't likely to be finished in a quarter anyway - the "this all isn't happening immediately" is quite telling. I don't know how shuttles and runabouts are built, but I'm not sure they're at the scope of "heavy industry builds" (they're something in between that and shipyard berth builds, in my estimation). In any case, usage of the HIP in such a way that it somehow eliminates the build time penalty due to the Peacekeeping force is very likely to also undo the HIP standard build time bonus during this time.
I'll grant that the HIP normally should only improve Sol builds.
... By giving them the smallest force we can get away with, namely, 3 battalions instead? Look, I'm not expecting it to go flawlessly, and it not going flawlessly is not a problem to me either.
If a colonel serves as your assassin and the internal politics scour the MACOs from Starfleet attachment it would rather strongly indicate to me that there was a not insignificant component of MACO compromised by the conspiracy.
The ones where they try to avoid being partial to one Federation species or another, to be reliable and honourable, to uphold the law and apply it fairly even to their own detriment and all the other things that are needed for a Federal law enforcement agency? Those perhaps?
I mean, most of them will already be practiced by the member worlds, but if you are going to be part of a rapidly deployable peacekeeping force into areas where the rule of law may be breaking down you really need to be above reproach, and not because people fear your retribution.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Y'all have way too many write-ins and I'm getting confused.
Okay, I do not have time to read the discussion. Just a bit of my own take on the actual post. I'll come back later this afternoonevening and try to parse the discussion.
I'm not sure how she expected that to work. And it is NOT clear from the text @OneirosTheWriter actually wrote that N'Gir was ever really willing to change her plan substantially to reflect Starfleet input.
It's also very obvious that she views "Starfleet disagrees with me about the merits of this poorly discussed plan" as "Starfleet is my enemy trying to undermine me personally, so I have to intimidate them into submission." In a way that, for example, Stesk would presumably not.
[X][CARGO] Implement a system of compensation (rental of ships) to member worlds
-[X][PAY] PP
[X][CARGO] Look to heavily expand Starfleet's Auxiliary Shipyard production
-[X][AUX] Surge supplemented by other Member yards
HELP I AM CONFUSED!
@OneirosTheWriter, I do NOT want to eat-cake-have-cake, but I DO honestly think it would be a good idea for us to compensate the member worlds for the heavy use of their ships in the short term. Among other things because it gives us an incentive to stop overusing their ships forever.
Would a write-in like "greatly expand Starfleet auxiliary production facilities, supplemented by member yards, with Starfleet offering compensation for the reliance on member world auxiliaries until such time as Starfleet can become transport-neutral" be okay?
And yes that means we get hit with a double-whammy political will cost, but I think that's only fair because it's obvious that are use of member world logistics really IS causing some problems.
[X][PEACE] Suggest an independent body
-[X][NEW] Organic Infrastructure
[X][GEAR] Should be more in line with Caitian Frontier Police
[X][SIZE] As Proposed, 9 battalions
[X][SUPPORT] Runabouts and shuttles (will require temporary access to Starfleet Shipyard Industrial Command resources, causing some delay)
I don't actually have a problem with the scale of the organization as proposed. I think they should be independent I do think they should have organic ships and I do think we need a new yard for the purpose because we probably need a new DESIGN for the purpose- a fast troopship.
Okay, I do not have time to read the discussion. Just a bit of my own take on the actual post. I'll come back later this afternoonevening and try to parse the discussion.
It really does sound like N'Gir had a complete plan that she was planning to drop on Starfleet and say "this is what you're going to do, now don't undermine me," with maybe some modification around the edges.
I'm not sure how she expected that to work. And it is NOT clear from the text @OneirosTheWriter actually wrote that N'Gir was ever really willing to change her plan substantially to reflect Starfleet input.
It's also very obvious that she views "Starfleet disagrees with me about the merits of this poorly discussed plan" as "Starfleet is my enemy trying to undermine me personally, so I have to intimidate them into submission." In a way that, for example, Stesk would presumably not.
[X][CARGO] Implement a system of compensation (rental of ships) to member worlds
-[X][PAY] PP
[X][CARGO] Look to heavily expand Starfleet's Auxiliary Shipyard production
-[X][AUX] Surge supplemented by other Member yards
HELP I AM CONFUSED!
@OneirosTheWriter, I do NOT want to eat-cake-have-cake, but I DO honestly think it would be a good idea for us to compensate the member worlds for the heavy use of their ships in the short term. Among other things because it gives us an incentive to stop overusing their ships forever.
Would a write-in like "greatly expand Starfleet auxiliary production facilities, supplemented by member yards, with Starfleet offering compensation for the reliance on member world auxiliaries until such time as Starfleet can become transport-neutral" be okay?
And yes that means we get hit with a double-whammy political will cost, but I think that's only fair because it's obvious that are use of member world logistics really IS causing some problems.
[X][PEACE] Suggest an independent body
-[X][NEW] Organic Infrastructure
[X][GEAR] Should be more in line with Caitian Frontier Police
[X][SIZE] As Proposed, 9 battalions
[X][SUPPORT] Runabouts and shuttles (will require temporary access to Starfleet Shipyard Industrial Command resources, causing some delay)
I don't actually have a problem with the scale of the organization as proposed. I think they should be independent I do think they should have organic ships and I do think we need a new yard for the purpose because we probably need a new DESIGN for the purpose- a fast troopship.
- Location
- Austin, TX
I suppose this vote feels like an 'are you sure?' vote to reverse the last vote, by showing more options and details, while increasing the penalties of following through, and hiding the political backlash if the President doesn't get her way.
And getting railroaded like this is probably what is sticking in many of our craws.
But, I'm not going to sit out the vote - we do need these items, even if it gives the President more power, and the bills appear to be going through regardless. Better to fight her on a different topic than these.
[X][PEACE] Write-in: Ranger Corps
-[X][STAR] The Starfleet Ranger Corps will be a new command directly reporting to Commander, Starfleet.
[ ][PEACE] Write-in: Grow a Ranger Corps under Starfleet Security
-[X][STAR] The Starfleet Ranger Corps will be a new command under Starfleet Tactical, and will be subordinate to Starfleet Security until its size increases to a point where a separate command is warranted
[X][GEAR] Should be more in line with Caitian Frontier Police
[X][SIZE] Should be larger, 12 battalions
[X][SUPPORT] Write-in: Metric Tonnes of Pennies
-[X] Design a new Fast Transport class suitable for transporting small and bulk cargo, as well as people.
-[X] Runabouts and Shuttles
-[X] Use Sol's Heavy Industrial Complex for production
And getting railroaded like this is probably what is sticking in many of our craws.
But, I'm not going to sit out the vote - we do need these items, even if it gives the President more power, and the bills appear to be going through regardless. Better to fight her on a different topic than these.
[X][PEACE] Write-in: Ranger Corps
-[X][STAR] The Starfleet Ranger Corps will be a new command directly reporting to Commander, Starfleet.
[ ][PEACE] Write-in: Grow a Ranger Corps under Starfleet Security
-[X][STAR] The Starfleet Ranger Corps will be a new command under Starfleet Tactical, and will be subordinate to Starfleet Security until its size increases to a point where a separate command is warranted
[X][GEAR] Should be more in line with Caitian Frontier Police
[X][SIZE] Should be larger, 12 battalions
[X][SUPPORT] Write-in: Metric Tonnes of Pennies
-[X] Design a new Fast Transport class suitable for transporting small and bulk cargo, as well as people.
-[X] Runabouts and Shuttles
-[X] Use Sol's Heavy Industrial Complex for production
Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
That it is far more people in one place than the FDS has ever had... yeah...
Quite the contrary, since it was a colonel and not an expendable asset it shows the support was incredibly limited...
That sounds neat, how will you do that?
I leave for a day and everything goes to hell again...
Yeah, I'm going to straight-up not vote unless
A. I expend at a couple hours to make sense of everything.
Or
B. All the options are consolidated on a single page where they can be compared.
Yeah, I'm going to straight-up not vote unless
A. I expend at a couple hours to make sense of everything.
Or
B. All the options are consolidated on a single page where they can be compared.