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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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Adhoc vote count started by AlphaDelta on Jun 29, 2017 at 2:00 PM, finished with 55686 posts and 27 votes.
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Random Member said:
The peacekeepers are supposed to police, not serve as the first line of defence against foreign invasion. And I disagree with going with maximum size and MACO gear. We'd be seen as reviving MACO, which the Original 4 won't like. For policing duties, less heavy equipment will be enough.
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This is speculation, we simply don't know that with the option as given, not basseles speculation butt we'd need word from Oneiros to know one way or the other...
 
remulian said:
This should allow us to garrison all gains in the Gabriel expanse and expect them to hold out against a Cardasian ground assault.
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Okay - you want to expand Starfleet's role to garrison colonies in warzones, instead of using the military of member's. Why? (I just accept the GBZ example without asking why you would establish colonies in a warzone, because you cannot always choose where a warzone happens).
 
Chaos Blade said:
so, you want to waste resources, why?
I am looking for a good explanation of why you'd want to sabotage us in that way. Hoenstly, it would be far more reasonable, efficient and honest to fight Pressident' KittyKat over this than to do that...
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Because it will do more damage to N'Gir to have her grand plan fail to live up to its intended goal than for it to never see the light.

I can be a bit spiteful. And to be honest, while they're there we can use them.

Random Member said:
The peacekeepers are supposed to police, not serve as the first line of defence against foreign invasion. And I disagree with going with maximum size and MACO gear. We'd be seen as reviving MACO, which the Original 4 won't like. For policing duties, less heavy equipment will be enough.
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Hell, Sulu might well resign in disgust if we do that.
 
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Chaos Blade said:
This is speculation, we simply don't know that with the option as given, not basseles speculation butt we'd need word from Oneiros to know one way or the other...
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OneirosTheWriter said:
President N'Gir wants to establish a force within Starfleet Tactical Command that will operate as a force able to handle peacekeeping missions. It would not be a war-fighting force, but would be intended to keep peace in troubled areas.
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We've heard.
 
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@Chaos Blade here's their OG descriptions.
OneirosTheWriter said:
[ ][COPS] Draw on Andorian Guard's Peacekeepers. Police first, combat is a much lower priority. Despite this, an Andorian is always dangerous in a scrap. (1 Influence, reduces Syndicate event rate, vulnerable to be disabled by casualties from Syndicate)
[ ][COPS] Draw on the Caitian Frontier Police force. These people keep order on the Caitian border worlds and even saw some action against the Dawiar. Full-size phaser pistols and light armour for protection are carried standard. (1 Influence, +1 Militarisation, reduce Syndicate event rate, more resilient to casualties)
[ ][COPS] Draw on the Amarkian Gendarmes. Deploying with full scale phaser rifles and body armour, these Amarki can move smoothly between investigating a break-in to storming a bunker. (2 Influence, +2 Militarisation, reduce Syndicate event rate, far greater resilience to casualties)
[ ][COPS] No Gendarmes
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OneirosTheWriter said:
Reform Starfleet Tactical Command in order to establish a permanent Peacekeeping force that can be used to deploy to conflict zones like the Orion Syndicate campaign, or to places like Caldonia.
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I just reread the original post and I am confused about the so-called peacekeeping force. The Orion Syndicate conflict was never a peacekeeping mission, it was a crimefighting mission and what would be needed for this kind of mission would be a federal police with something like SWAT teams. That should certainly be an independent agency.

Peacekeeping in a narrow sense, i.e. keeping hostilities from flaring up again after a peace between the belligerent parties has been negotiated sounds like something that could fit well with the FDS.
 
The Caitian Frontier Police did fine against the fucking Syndicate. The peacekeepers are unlikely to face anything of the same strength and magnitude, so I don't really see why they'd need anything heavier for their policing duties.
 
Hazard said:
Because it will do more damage to N'Gir to have her grand plan fail to live up to its intended goal than for it to never see the light.

I can be a bit spiteful. And to be honest, while they're there we can use them.



Hell, Sulu might well resign in disgust if we do that.
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oh, so you are voting out of spite and malice. good to know.

Let me be clear, this is about politics, you want to hurt an elected official because you dislike her and doubt her qualifications... but she was elected fair and square by the system we are part of. working to undermine her this way? can and will bite us in the ass sooner and/or latter.
Us and the Federation.

Keep that in mind.

anon_user said:
We've heard.
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not quite quantified that way. hence why I called it a non baseless speculation. We'd need to poll the other parties to see how upset they'd be if we gave them MACO gear to all of them or to a few Battalions

Iron Wolf said:
@Chaos Blade here's their OG descriptions.
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that was a long time ago, we don't know how it applies to the now, mechanically and otherwise.
 
I love that description of the Amarki Gendarmes, by the way. "We've got a B&E in sector 3 and they ran into a pillbox with heavy disruptor cannons." "On it, boss." Maybe we SHOULD leave this all the Amarki.

jk
 
Chaos Blade said:
oh, so you are voting out of spite and malice. good to know.
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It's part of the reason, but not the main reason.

The main reason is that I want a peacekeeper contingent that gets instilled with a 'violence last' code, while also making use of existing leadership infrastructure to assign missions.

The intent is that, after the Peacekeeper Corps has proven itself (if it hasn't failed) the small corps that exists will be broken up to form a cadre for an independent law enforcement arm of the Federation that depends on Starfleet and member worlds for transportation.
 
Gingganz said:
I just reread the original post and I am confused about the so-called peacekeeping force. The Orion Syndicate conflict was never a peacekeeping mission, it was a crimefighting mission and what would be needed for this kind of mission would be a federal police with something like SWAT teams. That should certainly be an independent agency.

Peacekeeping in a narrow sense, i.e. keeping hostilities from flaring up again after a peace between the belligerent parties has been negotiated sounds like something that could fit well with the FDS.
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No it doesn't, mostly because peacekeeping is a broad term, we could be talking humanitarian tasks, search and rescue after a large scale disaster, trying to stop feuding groups from killing each other, doing reconstruction in a bombed out city, administering refugee camp, break down black markets within their areas, provide aid and releif during an epidemic, etc.
Most of those task need security/military, medical and engineering backgrounds, not diplomatic. The FDS would be deployed with a peacekeeper escort, for instance, but giving one control of the other is far from being a good idea, since the FDS doesn't have the right mindset for those tasks and that doesn't even cover the possibility of using the peacekeeping force in a general war scenario in more bellicose roles...

Like I said I think there are two realistic options for this force, either within Starfleet or as an independent force. given the situation I feel that in the short to med term, they'd better be part of starfleet, we can restructure latter on, if needed.
 
[X][CARGO] Look to heavily expand Starfleet's Auxiliary Shipyard production
-[X][AUX] By itself

[X][PEACE] Place under Starfleet Tactical
-[X][STAR] A robust organizational charter in consultation with the Pacifists, including authorized mission types and the requirements for deployment on each. Organic ships.
[X][SIZE] As Proposed, 9 battalions
[X][GEAR] Should be more in line with Caitian Frontier Police
[X][SUPPORT] Runabouts and shuttles (will require temporary access to Starfleet Shipyard Industrial Command resources, causing some delay)
 
Vebyast said:
We had two options: "Go along with the deal" and "Upset the apple cart". If there'd been a "Don't commit until we get this sorted out" option I think we'd have been all over it. We'd been backed into a corner by the whole "come to Starfleet with a proposal" idea, N'Gir's history of "I expect you to do this", and Sulu's plan of pretending to know everything.

I will say, given how much work had apparently been put into this proposal, it probably would've been pretty politically damaging if our response was "The idea is good but it needs to be completely redone". Given the way the vote is going (happily work to accomplish the goals) I don't know if this is going to end particularly differently than it would've if we'd voted to hold off.
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My proposals are presented as a modification of her proposals to meet Starfleet's needs.

Key points:
- Auxiliary berth expansion
- The Ranger Corps will be under Thuir, and will directly report to Sulu.
- Production will be handled by the Sol Heavy Industrial Complex.

CeBrudras said:
The post sounds Commodore-ish, though I admit I am pretty much just guessing.
Puting it under the Explorer Corps Vice Admiral would make the hierarchy neater and make absolutely clear what our goal for the Peacekeepers is in terms of ethics and attitude and stuff.
The reputation of the Explorer Corps is also an useful tool for the kind of job the Peacekeepers will be doing.
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Hazard said:
It's part of the reason, but not the main reason.

The main reason is that I want a peacekeeper contingent that gets instilled with a 'violence last' code, while also making use of existing leadership infrastructure to assign missions.

The intent is that, after the Peacekeeper Corps has proven itself (if it hasn't failed) the small corps that exists will be broken up to form a cadre for an independent law enforcement arm of the Federation that depends on Starfleet and member worlds for transportation.
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Chaos Blade said:
[X][CARGO] Look to expand Starfleet's Auxiliary production through the use of general-purpose berths.

[X][PEACE] Place under Starfleet Tactical
-[X][STAR] A robust organizational charter in consultation with the Pacifists, including authorized mission types and the requirements for deployment on each. Organic ships.

[][GEAR] Should be more in line with Caitian Frontier Police
[X][SIZE] Should be larger, 12 battalions

[X][SUPPORT] Runabouts and shuttles (will require temporary access to Starfleet Shipyard Industrial Command resources, causing some delay)

I think putting these forces under FDS is utter lunacy, they are diplomats first, giving them armed forces seems, even peacekeepers, is going to be rather idiotic, best case scenario they are going to be crippled by the FDS aparatus, worse case scenario, the FDS learn to love diplomacy by other means... there is too much of a doctrinal difference, so I can't see it as a good idea, AT ALL.
We could argue on independent force, but I think short term they should be under starfleet, we might want to split them at a latter time (like the USAAF became the USAF)
one thing I won't vote is on gear till we get QMs detail on each, cost/particularities and the like, or if we will be able to specialzie some Battalions to specific tasks and gear types...
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Chaos Blade said:
No it doesn't, mostly because peacekeeping is a broad term, we could be talking humanitarian tasks, search and rescue after a large scale disaster, trying to stop feuding groups from killing each other, doing reconstruction in a bombed out city, administering refugee camp, break down black markets within their areas, provide aid and releif during an epidemic, etc.
Most of those task need security/military, medical and engineering backgrounds, not diplomatic. The FDS would be deployed with a peacekeeper escort, for instance, but giving one control of the other is far from being a good idea, since the FDS doesn't have the right mindset for those tasks and that doesn't even cover the possibility of using the peacekeeping force in a general war scenario in more bellicose roles...

Like I said I think there are two realistic options for this force, either within Starfleet or as an independent force. given the situation I feel that in the short to med term, they'd better be part of starfleet, we can restructure latter on, if needed.
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Still, the EC is not the best place to put it.

My proposal includes an independent branch under Thuir. Thuir is perhaps the best representative of Starfleet ideals we have at that rank. Furthermore, he's in charge of Starfleet Security under Tactical, so it's a mild transition.

Plus, reporting directly to Sulu means that Sulu can keep a close eye on it.
 
Random Member said:
The UN has a police force that is also often send on peacekeeping missions.
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Thanks. So I will assume that N'gir wants somethig like a combination of the United Nations Police and Blue Helmets.

Still, a police force shouldn't be placed within Starfleet, it should be independent. So I am changing my vote to that.

[X][CARGO] Mix of Starfleet's Auxiliary Shipyard expansion and assigning Starfleet general purpose shipyard berths, supplemented by Member yards like now

[X][PEACE] Suggest an independent body
-[X][NEW] Organic Ships

[X][GEAR] Should be more in line with Caitian Frontier Police

[X][SIZE] As Proposed, 9 battalions

[X][SUPPORT] Runabouts and shuttles (will require temporary access to Starfleet Shipyard Industrial Command resources, causing some delay)
 
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Hazard said:
It's part of the reason, but not the main reason.

The main reason is that I want a peacekeeper contingent that gets instilled with a 'violence last' code, while also making use of existing leadership infrastructure to assign missions.

The intent is that, after the Peacekeeper Corps has proven itself (if it hasn't failed) the small corps that exists will be broken up to form a cadre for an independent law enforcement arm of the Federation that depends on Starfleet and member worlds for transportation.
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That is not what you said just a few post before.
Still, it sounds like a monumentally bad idea, we can achieve the same results by putting under Tactical, have a hand in the creation of doctrines and what not.
the FDS simply doesn't have the mindset to run this force from the ground up, nor has the institutional infrastructure to do so, we'd need to import people from member states forces and then it would devolve into infighting within the FDS, or with a high turnout of COs for this force that would result in a useless resource and manpower drain.

Do note the post Oneiros made about the FDS and Phasers... when the Quest Master makes a joke like that? yeah... I am sure it will be a brilliant idea to dismiss him and move on towards that scenario....
 
Why are people voting to give the diplomats an army? o_O

If you absolutely have to have this peacekeeping force, at least create a new organization for them
 
There's arguments for an independent force, and there's arguments to make them Starfleet. I feel that Starfleet has a much stronger institutional and doctrinal base for exactly the kinds of missions already, but I can see why some people would want them independent.

The FDS is a ridiculous option because the FDS only covers a handful of their potential duties. What institutional knowledge is there in the FDS about troops or police whatsoever?
 
The FDS thing is really weird, to be sure.

The proposed Peacekeepers would draw from SFA graduates (or near graduates) and be basically an upgrade to Starfleet Security's scope. It's a logical progression, albeit a controversial one.

There's not much institutional logical progression to giving the FDS phaser rifles and stun batons. I can only imagine the headache that's going to give them. Might even cripple them for the next dec--Oh. Is that why people are voting for it?
 
[X][PEACE] Write-in: Ranger Corps
-[X][STAR] The Starfleet Ranger Corps will be a new command directly reporting to Commander, Starfleet.

I am not sure about all the sub parts of this writein vote or the logistics one, but I support the idea of keeping it independent from tactical.
 
Chaos Blade said:
Like I said I think there are two realistic options for this force, either within Starfleet or as an independent force. given the situation I feel that in the short to med term, they'd better be part of starfleet, we can restructure latter on, if needed.
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Chaos Blade said:
That is not what you said just a few post before.
Still, it sounds like a monumentally bad idea, we can achieve the same results by putting under Tactical, have a hand in the creation of doctrines and what not.
the FDS simply doesn't have the mindset to run this force from the ground up, nor has the institutional infrastructure to do so, we'd need to import people from member states forces and then it would devolve into infighting within the FDS, or with a high turnout of COs for this force that would result in a useless resource and manpower drain.
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Starfleet is not going to be comfortable with having ground pounders in their TOE and orgchart. The FDS, which is apparently the only other Federal service and not under Starfleet command, would be a much better option as a result.

Setting up an entire new branch of the Federal government without instilling certain Federation values sounds less than wise to me.

And yes, I reiterate, spite is part of my decision here, but it's not the main one.
 
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