KlavoHunter
THOU SHALT WORSHIP NO GODS ABOVE ENTERPRISE!
[x] UFS Kia
Why do our ships keep getting stolen so easily???
Why do our ships keep getting stolen so easily???
Linked contents
NexusEye
Aspiring God
- Pronouns
- She/Her
If you want you vote to count it should be spelled "Kea".
.. I think that was deliberate.
- Location
- Earth
There are several things that can't be replicated. In DS9, Chief O'Brien had to go to Terok Nor to salvage Cardassian plasma distribution manifolds because they specifically couldn't be replicated. In TNG, they couldn't replicate ribosomes for a Romulan to live. In Voyager, they couldn't replicate replacement lungs for Neelix or Borg cortical nodes.
That suggests there are complex biological chemicals/medicine and advanced technology that can't be replicated. The NX-01 was likely too primitive to have or didn't suffer damage to something not replicable.
- Location
- Germany
Which doesn't make any sense for the biological stuff because anything that can be transported by a transporter can also be replicated that way, using the pattern they use to turn the energy back into matter.
It breaks down to writers being stupid about the tech that is around, or willfully ignoring it for "plot" reasons.
- Location
- Earth
It makes perfect sense if the technologies are related but not the same. In-universe both replicators and transporters have components that each other don't share as dialogue indicates.
- Location
- Germany
It doesn't make sense.
Because transporter still use patterns to recreate the original matter state.
If you have a copy of that pattern you can just recreate it using that, see the transporter clone/duplicate episodes as an example.
- Location
- Earth
You're simply ignoring every time the writing has distinguished the two technologies.
The transporter uses the pattern and matter of the original to recreate in a different place. Multiple times they've shown the pattern and energy is very complex and can only be stored for a limited amount of time in the pattern buffer. And once that complex pattern is used up it can't be used again.
The replicator uses pre-stored patterns that uses other matter to recreate things but had a lower resolution limit on things it can create. That's why the automated station in ENT and the Romulans both got caught replicating bodies. The resolution of replicators were too low and the differences gave away the ploy. Two different groups that had both transporters and replicators, who would really not want to get caught, still got caught anyways.
As for transporter duplicates, Kirk was split and not duplicated. For Riker and Boimler, there were external circumstances not part of the actual pieces of the transporter.
darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You can't replicate most biology, at least without cutting edge technology in the 24th century, and even then it's a limited medical function. But people are transported without dying. The technologies are different.
The pattern in the transporter sense is some kind of active, dynamic thing that needs storage rather than pure data. The replicator pattern is a recipe.
Going into headcanon, it's another kind of information-matter like the stuff in holodecks. Going REALLY into headcanon there's a few references where it would make sense if Morphogenic Field Theory turned out to be true in Star Trek and manipulating that is key to transporters. The 'screaming goo' transporter accidents are the result of catastrophic morphogenic field collapse.
That's because the writers hated replicators and deliberately didn't use them properly (see up thread)
You could totally replicate the plasma manifolds, but then you wouldn't have the spooky Terok Nor episode.
No it suggests the writers hated the technology and deliberately wrote in excuses to not use it. Unfortunately, canon has to factor in that the answer to limitations to certain technologies is "the writers wanted it x way on y episode for plot reasons"
So really the limitations are "what the writer/GM/QM" say they are.
- Location
- America
I wonder if we could design a civilian Runabout?
Relevant XKCD
darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't think being offended by the technology having pretty consistent limits helps anything. You want a replicator to be able to instantly make anything, it doesn't. It instantly makes food and 212st century technology. For more you need industrial replicators or even more specialized equipment. None of this seems particularly unreasonable as engineering limits. You want to fix that make a better replicator.
At a minimum, why can't you just replicate a ship? First, cubic volume problem and energy requirements. And second, Prodigy suggests they're getting to the point where they will be able to soon. At least on a shuttle scale.
Last edited:
The only time it couldn't are.. surprise surprise, when it was a plot element:
It's almost as if it's limitations are writer dependent, and therefore, the writers intentions are relevant.
So yes, the writers not liking the technology is entirely relevant.
Endorfinator
Awkwardly Social
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I like thinking that replicator can't fabricate warp coils or phaser components. That there is some exotic process those components have to go through to give them the ability to function that a replicator can't do.
darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
- Pronouns
- He/Him
But what you quoted doesn't actually disagree with me. They can make a lot of technology - I dare say a lot of Federation technology is even designed so everything it uses can be replicated. That would be smart engineering. You can use organ replication sometimes for some organs. Still on the same page. There are industrial replicators offscreen for larger or more precision parts, just like I said.
And sometimes the constraints for a part or an organ are outside the design bounds of what you can do. Sometimes a replicator-friendly part just won't cut it. This is not unrealistic, this is engineering. Manufacturing is COMPLICATED. Real life has all kinds of bullshit limits like this once you get into the nitty gritty of casting, molding, forging, and 3D printing. I imagine as they solve modern engineering problems effortlessly they have found new and exciting bullshit complications of their own as they push the boundaries out.
Last edited:
Okay, fine. I have two question for you then. Without access to industrial replicators, how did Voyager keep making their shuttles, and especially their Delta Flyers?
How did they repair their systems and hull damage?
My point is replicators are probably only limited by writer fiat and the knowledge of how to program their recopies. (And energy, likely.)
darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Because they were doing trade and resupply the entire trip. It was a plot point a lot of the time.
edit: In fact I imagine a lot of the time the deal was 'hey, we won't break the prime directive, but if you give us a template we can crank some stuff that's hard to manufacture for you in exchange for some stuff you're making the hard way that we can't make at all.' And that's a simple enough deal that goes well enough we don't have an episode about it.
Last edited:
Chargone
Invisable operator
- Location
- New Zealand
The ony Consistent limits seem to be the physical size of the unit (can't make things bigger than can actually fit inside the thing) and available power.
Everything else (or near enough) seems fairly arbitrary and random.
Some things it makes sense that particular users are Prevented from replicating (don't want random children using the kitchen appliance to make explosives, for example), but that's not the same as replicators as a whole being fundamentally incapable of doing so.
... Funny you mention that. With who? Federation technology is pretty different, they have no replicators for most of the early seasons*, and most critically, the only time it's brought up that they actually traded technology or resources is..
Think Tank and Killing Game. (Janeway mentions that replicators seemed to be very popular that year in Think Tank, which implies they're likely becoming more common outside Kazon held areas.)
If anything, the deals seemed to fall through, and I run strictly on a "if I didn't see it, it didn't happen" rule for filling in the blanks. There's exactly two or so examples of actual trading seemingly done.
Like.. I can kinda understand trade and resupply, but we run straight into the issue of "they still need to make stuff in house. " Especially for any sensitive system. So uh..
Again. How?
darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That's the difference- you're trying to make problems and going 'if I didn't see it it didn't happen' and I'm solving problems based on what makes sense and we know is possible. I don't think we'll agree here
"I'm solving problems" - don't. Filling in the blanks is creating a headcanon, we're discussing canon as depicted. Personally, I think resupply for raw materials used in a replicator is probably what happened if I had to fill in the blanks, but this isn't the point of discussing what it can do, is it?
Voyager has replicators and can rapidly repair itself, and is almost never depicted in an alien dockyard or such. Simplest explanation: it can replicate all the parts it needs.
(For that matter, my personal read on replicators is that they can in fact replicate anything,but if you ask your common replicator on a starship for warp core components or something, you'll take a full week or more to create just *a* component due to power requirements and issues with maintaing a lower scale but faster easier to maintain personal replicator, and industrial replicators are built to handle high load and high power. In practice, it simply isn't feasible to make most components if you don't have an industrial replicator, and they require a lot of power. But this is a *personal* opinion.)
- Location
- California
The writers not really caring a lot of the time. Some VOY episodes took the time to mention trade or mining missions they went on to help with supplies, but others they just moved on because it's an episodic show wearing the skin of a serialized story.
Sure, that's actually a good answer. I think personally it's why I don't like using VOY for any canon thing because the writers are inconsistent.
- Location
- Germany
Reminds me of this one.
Oh we have a limited amount of about 38 and can't get more ...
Starting firing like 4-5 every chance you get.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIGxMENwq1k