Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
One big enough--presumably--to hold a freighter's crew in reasonable comfort pending delivery to the station for their arraignment
Linked contents
One big enough--presumably--to hold a freighter's crew in reasonable comfort pending delivery to the station for their arraignment
- Location
- Somewhere in the Ashes
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Plan Everything But The Mule
-[X] 0: No Shuttlebay
-[X] 1: Transporter (+10,000 Tons)
-[X] 2: Cargo Bay (+10,000 Tons)
-[X] 3: Brig (+10,000 Tons)
-[X] 4: Tractor Beam (+10,000 Tons)
-[X] 0: No Shuttlebay
-[X] 1: Transporter (+10,000 Tons)
-[X] 2: Cargo Bay (+10,000 Tons)
-[X] 3: Brig (+10,000 Tons)
-[X] 4: Tractor Beam (+10,000 Tons)
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- Location
- England
Our ships are heavy. The Skate was 95 by 82 by 19 meters and very much not a Borg Cube in shape, and it weighed 60k tons. The space and support equipment needed to expand our ship enough to hold the brig will be heavy even if the actual equipment inside the brig is pretty light.
Is this thing too large to land on planets?
I figured this would be for planets without a dedicated/sizeable starbase since they'd just use that as a customs checkpoint. I agree though that shuttles would be completely unnecessary if this thing can land (and only generally unnecessary if we had transporters).
This is what I'm thinking, if you discover something minor in one of many systems I can imaging wanting to sieze the contraband and slap a fine on the people before sending them off. It also might be helpful when the cargo is something you don't want any of their crew to have access to anymore if they're following you. I don't know if we'd throw their entire crew in the brig and have a police skeleton crew for both ships. The idea of having to completely call off the patrol because you found something sizeable but minor (IP infringement, multiple pallets worth of low danger contraband) or actively destroy whatever you would have seized is meh. Plus having a police cutter that can do some light hauling is handy, it'd make it more attractive for smaller colonies and on patrols if the locals were less inclined to catch and release.
It's less the internal component and more the ship getting bigger to accomodate it. But also a bit of game mechanics.
A freighters crew will likely cap out at 30 people at most, mind. And whilst we wouldn't be able to provide the same level of comfort (basically Galaxy class officers quarters), 10,000 tonnes is a bit excessive for what are basically canon brigs.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Disable a ship, stick the people in the brig and tractor the ship and we have no need for cargo bays.
My question is, and apologies if already covered, I'm just excited for this turn, what do Shuttles give us that Transporter don't?
My question is, and apologies if already covered, I'm just excited for this turn, what do Shuttles give us that Transporter don't?
I'm more interested in designing the best police cutter for federation members to use than I am winning the competition. It's not like the the two runner up designs will cease to exist just because they didn't win.
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- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
At that point, why even bother with probable cause and why not impound every ship passing through the heliopause of whatever star you happen to be orbiting? Or, put another way, perhaps we should design a ship that does not naturally lend itself to a doctrine of "go Full Police State immediately, at all times."
Taking the cargo bay gives operators other options than taking everybody into police custody.
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This + situations and technology that would render transporters useless.
Mechanis
Confirmed Extremely Screwed
- Location
- Absconding with Alacrity
I will say that while we can win with only 3 Utility, I am still inclined to hit all five, just because, well, why wouldn't we? It's a better ship, it does everything either competitor does and even has capability that neither does, while still being cheaper than the most expensive entry. As someone pointed out, reduced capabilities isn't a free lunch either, and we should be keeping in mind that we don't just want to win the contest, but produce a clearly superior ship whilst we're at it. I see no reason why we should settle for a less capable ship for comparitively minor cost savings; Penny wise but Pound foolish, as someone put it earlier.
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LunaMoth
Wings of Kynareth is my comfort song...
- Pronouns
- He/They
I'm not sure, I think it might be the worse option between the transporter and it but that doesn't mean its entirely useless, I'm sure the shuttles are going to be armed at least; and there may be situations where a police ship cannot use its transporter for whatever reason however these situations I don't feel really come up that much.
-[ ] 0: No Shuttlebay
-[ ] 1: Transporter (+10,000 Tons)
-[ ] 2: No Cargo Bay
-[ ] 3: Brig (+10,000 Tons)
-[ ] 4: Tractor Beam (+10,000 Tons)
I'm not seeing this combination yet.
EDIT: NEVERMIND, Changed to previous vote:
[ ] Plan Ranger
-[ ] 0: No Shuttlebay
-[ ] 1: Transporter (+10,000 Tons)
-[ ] 2: No Cargo Bay
-[ ] 3: Brig (+10,000 Tons)
-[ ] 4: Tractor Beam (+10,000 Tons)
Shuttlebays are superfluous, Transporters allow for FAST reactions to things, and flexibility. Shuttles don't. We should be able to transport over investigators, while parking in a blind spot. This is a doctrine issue. If they're not powering down weapons/shields, then we shouldn't be transporting over anyways. If you have them in a shuttle, you now risk a shuttle in addition to the main ship if they go hostile.
Transporters are a must, especially w/out shuttle.
Cargo can be cut We can call another ship in-system to do that, or we tractor it.
Brigs are a must ,we will probably be using these for prison-transport as well as if we need to put large number of catured crew in detention.
Tractor Beams are a good option, both to tow ships, and to keep them from just running away.
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Plan: Aegis
[X] 0: Shuttlebay (+20,000 Tons)
Shuttles are the only force multiplier option on the list. If you need the ship to respond to another event, you can leave a couple of shuttles behind to support and extract the inspection team(s). Have shuttles you can launch sneak attacks on pirate bases while the ship draws attention away. Need an impromptu listening/observation post, deploy a shuttle.
Shuttles are an easy item to upgrade in the future as well. Fly the obsolete models off the ship, fly the new types on to the ship.
We want shuttles.
[X] 1: Transporter (+10,000 Tons)
When you need to pull civilians out of an exploding ship, rescue hostages or covertly insert operatives, nothing else will do.
[X] 2: No Cargo Bay
This one is nice, but probably not necessary. Cargo Bay for hauling supplies, storing contraband, holding rescues, making emergency supply runs... Would all be great capabilities, but can also be performed by civilian vessels.
[X] 3: Brig (+10,000 Tons)
We are building a customs and police vessel, it will be collecting involuntary passengers. Those involuntary passengers will need to be housed in appropriate accommodations.
[X] 4: Tractor Beam (+10,000 Tons)
Stabilizing out of control ships, "non-lethal" method for stopping fleeing ships, rescuing stranded shuttles from the crevasse of an ice comet, all things we need a tractor beam for.
If I understand this phase correctly, this should give us a 110,000 ton vessel.
[X] 0: Shuttlebay (+20,000 Tons)
Shuttles are the only force multiplier option on the list. If you need the ship to respond to another event, you can leave a couple of shuttles behind to support and extract the inspection team(s). Have shuttles you can launch sneak attacks on pirate bases while the ship draws attention away. Need an impromptu listening/observation post, deploy a shuttle.
Shuttles are an easy item to upgrade in the future as well. Fly the obsolete models off the ship, fly the new types on to the ship.
We want shuttles.
[X] 1: Transporter (+10,000 Tons)
When you need to pull civilians out of an exploding ship, rescue hostages or covertly insert operatives, nothing else will do.
[X] 2: No Cargo Bay
This one is nice, but probably not necessary. Cargo Bay for hauling supplies, storing contraband, holding rescues, making emergency supply runs... Would all be great capabilities, but can also be performed by civilian vessels.
[X] 3: Brig (+10,000 Tons)
We are building a customs and police vessel, it will be collecting involuntary passengers. Those involuntary passengers will need to be housed in appropriate accommodations.
[X] 4: Tractor Beam (+10,000 Tons)
Stabilizing out of control ships, "non-lethal" method for stopping fleeing ships, rescuing stranded shuttles from the crevasse of an ice comet, all things we need a tractor beam for.
If I understand this phase correctly, this should give us a 110,000 ton vessel.
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You, uh, kinda copied my plan. Not that I disagree with your reasoning.
StriderInCosmos
Wanderer in the Worldsea
- Location
- Somewhere in... Terminal Dogma? I think?
Well, great minds think alike, it seems.
LunaMoth
Wings of Kynareth is my comfort song...
- Pronouns
- He/They
A lot of plan copying going on here RN people having the same ideas...
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm going to make a few arguments for the cargo bay:
Potential uses for it:
1. Holding supplies for potential emergencies
2. Holding extra troops for any potential ground or ship skirmishes
3. Holding extra equipment for law enforcement uses(space suits, forensic equipment, rations, etc)
4. Holding rescued civilians(there has to be a place besides a potential brig and the bridge for them)
5. Holding spare parts so that you don't need another police cutter to bring it back to a Starbase if anything goes wrong
This all depends on just how common said Police Cutters are, and if there are only one or two per solar system or a hundred.
Potential uses for it:
1. Holding supplies for potential emergencies
2. Holding extra troops for any potential ground or ship skirmishes
3. Holding extra equipment for law enforcement uses(space suits, forensic equipment, rations, etc)
4. Holding rescued civilians(there has to be a place besides a potential brig and the bridge for them)
5. Holding spare parts so that you don't need another police cutter to bring it back to a Starbase if anything goes wrong
This all depends on just how common said Police Cutters are, and if there are only one or two per solar system or a hundred.
Mechanis
Confirmed Extremely Screwed
- Location
- Absconding with Alacrity
The thing with that is, with a 110 kton design we may as well go all the way to a 120 kton design with all five utility functions. Unless we decline to carry shuttles and one other thing, there just isn't very much advantage in taking less than 5 utilities.
Eh, fair, just kinda attached to my name for it, so I'd rather see that go ahead (Aegis would probably be better suited for an ODP project, imo).
It takes a bit of mental readjustment to realise that in an age of sail context that an arrest is likely to consist more of an instruction to "stand to" and reluctantly doing so rather than legging it. There isn't the parity of equipment that lets a civilian ship match the capabilities of a purpose-built enforcement or military starship. It's like if every police car is a supercharged landspeed record challenger. But bulletproof, covered in reactive armor, and sporting a pair of popup rotary cannons behind the headlights. People would stop trying to duck them when they get flashed because they know there's no way they get away.
Or in the age of sail when a smuggler isn't fast enough to outrun the navy, they surrender. Because the navy has cannons and marines, and it's better to gamble on clemency from the courts than with your lives. It's when you know you won't get clemency that things get dangerous, but it's also when in the Age of Sail you're such a nusiance you'll be facing a naval squadron with a mission to put you down rather than patrollers. Or, in the context of Trek, the Constitution-class was the death-knell for pirates in Federation space. They represented a capability and firepower gap that changed the game even for well-established pirate operations like the Orion Syndicate.
It was very much a case of "oh, you have three light cruisers? I'm a heavy cruiser. I have more shields than all of you put together. I've got a half-a-dozen high-power twin phaser banks and enough photon torpedoes to crack open that planetoid you're hiding your base in. If you try and run in anything less than an interceptor, I'm going to run you down and splatter you across space."
Or in the age of sail when a smuggler isn't fast enough to outrun the navy, they surrender. Because the navy has cannons and marines, and it's better to gamble on clemency from the courts than with your lives. It's when you know you won't get clemency that things get dangerous, but it's also when in the Age of Sail you're such a nusiance you'll be facing a naval squadron with a mission to put you down rather than patrollers. Or, in the context of Trek, the Constitution-class was the death-knell for pirates in Federation space. They represented a capability and firepower gap that changed the game even for well-established pirate operations like the Orion Syndicate.
It was very much a case of "oh, you have three light cruisers? I'm a heavy cruiser. I have more shields than all of you put together. I've got a half-a-dozen high-power twin phaser banks and enough photon torpedoes to crack open that planetoid you're hiding your base in. If you try and run in anything less than an interceptor, I'm going to run you down and splatter you across space."
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I'd imagine you're probably looking at at least 20 per system. Assuming the old 1:2 ratio holds true (for no -nuclear carriers/ships) that'd allow for 10 cutters operational at any given time.
Horologer
Incertae sedis
- Location
- a risen sea
I think we should choose between shuttles or transporters, because the two together have too many redundancies. Right now I'm leaning towards transporters. They're a little less versatile, but they are half the mass, and we can cover for the slight loss of utility by taking other options.
I'm pretty sure we don't get spare rooms for cargoband, and you want police handling it because of chain of evidence issues.
Mechanis
Confirmed Extremely Screwed
- Location
- Absconding with Alacrity
Like, for comparison here, no shuttles and 3 other functions would be 90 ktons. Shuttles and 2 functions would be 100 ktons, as would everything except shuttles. Shuttles and any 3 functions is 110 ktons. All five would be 120 ktons. Our ceiling for beating Denobula on cost is 120 ktons.
Why would we want to pinch pennies when we can put all five utility functions on the ship and still be cheaper than the much less capable Denobulan entry and vastly more capable than the cheapo Tellerite entry?
Why would we want to pinch pennies when we can put all five utility functions on the ship and still be cheaper than the much less capable Denobulan entry and vastly more capable than the cheapo Tellerite entry?