There is sense to this. A damaged ship that limps home generally does so with the vast majority of the crew alive. You can fix a ship a lot easier than you can train new crew. Attritional warfare is avoided whenever possible. Small ships that win a battle but lose half their number are likely considered unsustainable.
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LunaMoth
Wings of Kynareth is my comfort song...
- Pronouns
- He/They
The closest thing to this in cannon is the Suliban Helix, which is a stationary station...
Also it would be more effective to just make four escorts all equipped with warp drives than to make a massive carrier.
Yep. Ships aren't really the problem for Starfleet. It's crew. They can spam out anything. They can't spam crew.
Drones could be an option... but I generally go for a Watsonian view on things and there seems to be a reason why we don't see them often. Perhaps by the 24th century, they're too easily jammed or otherwise interfered with.
Strunkriidiisk
THE LEGEND
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Having a tender operating parasite craft doesn't really solve the problem that warp is a thing that exists and is used as a tactical tool. A carrier/tender that has deployed a bunch of warp-incapable vessels hasn't got a quick response to an opposing ship choosing to refuse engagement by jumping away, and needing to regather the payload before warping itself makes it much harder to chase or even track a opponent.
Having armed ships that lack independent warp basically means those ships will never be able to dictate the terms of any engagement they find themselves in.
Having armed ships that lack independent warp basically means those ships will never be able to dictate the terms of any engagement they find themselves in.
Starfleet computers have been hacked by what amounts to teenagers with a voice recorder. Digital security is quite possibly the weak point. A drone ship can be hacked in ways a regular vessel simply cannot. A non-digital crew allows you to basically airgap the ship in a way drones functionally cannot be.
- Location
- France
- Pronouns
- She/They
I think that's not enough utility to support the tended ship. I think if you want to optimize those it's better to have long term crew quarters in the tending ship.
ugly ass paint design but here's what I'd do
There's no reason for the fighters to not be warp capable... warp can be miniaturized to an almost absurd level.
Carriers might be useful in an extremely long-range capacity. Small warp drives i'm sure have limited speed/range, but you could conceivably park a carrier 5 LY's away from the target, launch the ships, they can warp over, do their thing, and warp back. Carrier never even entered sensor range.
I wonder if it would be even technically possible to have ships that link up and combine systems such that each ship has a single nacelle but together act as one large ship with 4 nacelles...
Meanwhile each ship is independently capable of warp even if not particularly fast. Linked up they get the speed boost of a quad nacelle to rapidly sprint into a battlespace.
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I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be possible... although I don't believe it work the way you're suggesting.
"More nacelles" doesn't mean "more speed".
More nacelles does mean more speed because while there are rapidly diminishing returns you can push your warp bubble to greater extremes. A 4 nacelle ship gets about an extra .6 to it's cruise and sprint speeds compared to a single nacelle ship.
Strunkriidiisk
THE LEGEND
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
My post was in relation to the tangent starting here:
If we were to do a 'carrier' type ship I'd just treat it like a frigate/destroyer-tender. Smaller short-range ships (like the Skate) with limited crew endurance but fast and well-armed and capable of warp, then a larger cargo-focused vessel that has amenities and supplies for the crews rotating off active patrol - basically a stripped-down mobile Starbase.
The mothership follows a designated patrol route, the escorts patrol within the neighbouring systems for like a week or two at a time, then rotate back to the mothership for rest and resupply.
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That mobile starbase would be good to stack with a very large engineering score (and it would anyway because it would have lots of cargo space) and so it would stand a good chance at fixing ships that would normally be too damaged to fly home after a battle. It would be nice, for example, if we could avoid scuttling another thunderchild when one of it's nacelles gets battle damage.
I am imagining a ship with long armatures that fold out into a full on spacedock capable of doing intensive ship repair on the fly.
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StriderInCosmos
Wanderer in the Worldsea
- Location
- Somewhere in... Terminal Dogma? I think?
That does indeed sound like a solid defensive/home engineering multi-system monitor. I could see that being a nice project for the interior with a versatile loadout for construction and system defense purposes.
If we do we need to name the flagship the USS Lathe and all the sister ships need to be named after various industrial tools.
- Location
- France
- Pronouns
- She/They
Warp as we currently do it requires a warp core plus some big nacelles, it's both expensive and a weak point. I also expect there's economy of scale in bigger warp ships because that's usually how real engineering works.
2175: Project Copernicus (Certification)
[X] 1: Engineering Workshop (+2 Engineering, Capability: Fabrication)
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+1 Science, Capability: Advanced Computers, +1 Cost)
[X] 3: Cargo Bay (+2 Engineering, Capability: +6 Cargo)
[X] 4: Astrometrics (+2 Science, Capability: Astrometrics)
[X] 5: Biosciences (+2 Science, Capability: Advanced Medical)
[X] 6: Geology Lab (+2 Science, Capability: Geology)
Copernicus Mission Certification
The Copernicus design specification is for an explorer vessel capable of diverse missions beyond Federation space. It requires scientific facilities capable of robust analysis of data and samples, and should be capable of independent operations with sporadic contact with Starfleet Command.
It is the judgement of this report that the Copernicus (NX-900) meets these requirements. Details follow.
The Copernicus has a medium operational range at an efficient cruise of Warp 5 and maximum cruise of Warp 6, supported by two antimatter storage units fed into the main warp engine. This translates to an operational range of two hundred and fifty light years from the nearest refuelling station. The Copernicus is capable of a maximum velocity of Warp 7 for twelve hours.
The Copernicus is equipped with a Type-1 shield matrix, twelve Type-1 phaser emitters, and three prototype photon launchers: two forward and one aft. The weapon firing arcs are capable of a maximum output of twenty gigawatts of nadion particle energy in the bow aspect when in pre-fire mode. Standard energy flow supports a continual output of eight gigawatts in all aspects.
The Copernicus masses four hundred and forty eight thousand tons, reduced from projections by the use of prototype electro-ceramic plating. The spaceframe is propelled by three Avidyne Type-2 impulse thrusters each capable of outputting one hundred and forty two kilotons of standard acceleration for a turn time of thirteen seconds at full military thrust.
The Copernicus is serviced by two twelve-meter optical computer stacks, one acting as the primary command processor on decks 4-5, and the second situated below main engineering on decks 11-12. Additional computing power has maximised the effectiveness of the Copernicus' astrometrics suite, while the geology laboratory provides planetside analysis capabilities. It is also equipped with an advanced medical and diagnostics bay with beds for sixteen and an isolation and biomedical lab attached to sickbay.
The Copernicus has an aft-opening shuttlebay with a standard complement of four shuttlepods (2 active, 2 disassembled). This is supplemented by a biological-rated transporter system for the rapid deployment of personnel and supplies. Cargo is stored in the aft saucer section on deck 6, with room for six hundred standard containers. On-site fabrication and assembly is provided by a workshop and prototyping section on deck 12.
Internal Review of the Copernicus Design, San Francisco Fleetyards
The Copernicus is an extremely expensive starship, requiring substantial outlays to the civilian sector for manufacture of hull materials and standard operating systems. This is compounded by an equally onerous expense to the Utopia Planitia manufacturing center for her substantial armament and defensive systems. This is somewhat mitigated by the reduction in mass provided by the new electro-ceramic plating and a reduction in the aft phaser emplacements, but remains prohibitive. Accordingly the Copernicus is awarded one point out of eleven for both civilian and starfleet cost metrics, resulting in a D- in these sectors.
Tactically the Copernicus is equipped with weapons able to aggressively prosecute both single and multiple targets, with a minimum of two phaser emitters capable of outputting the full eight gigawatt grid throughput to weapons at any target, with more substantial yields available with selective use of pre-fire charging. The new photon warhead prototypes provide an unexpectedly high but highly effective source of damage in the longitudinal axis. Accordingly the Copernicus is awarded maximum points in the standard combat metric despite a reduced armament, and ten out of eleven points in the fleet combat metric for a result of A and A- in these sectors.
The Copernicus is equipped with a fabrication suite allowing local manufacturing on a small scale, as well as an expansive cargo bay. The provision of a transporter and an aft shuttlebay provides varied means of movement on and off the ship with and without equipment. The ship is capable of supporting itself as well as carrying a substantial amount of cargo, and is therefore awarded eight points out of eleven, a B.
The Copernicus is equipped with specialist astrometric, biomedical, and geological laboratories to allow detailed survey and analysis of phenomena in these categories, but is otherwise limited to standard equipment in other fields. This disadvantage is offset by the addition of a secondary computer core able to service non-vital tasks in a more timely fashion. The Copernicus is correspondingly awarded ten points out of eleven for a targeted but effective provision of scientific expertise for its mission, an A-.
Overall despite the major expense, the Copernicus has leveraged its cost into a wide range of capabilities slightly beyond those projected for a vessel of its cost. Accordingly the Copernicus as a whole is rated as seven points out of eleven, a B-. The designers are to be congratulated for a reliable design that is more than the sum of its parts.
In concordance with the findings of this review and in consultation with Starfleet Command, Supervisor San Francisco authorises one (1) production run of five vessels, further orders to be reviewed after a performance analysis in five years.
Copernicus prototype is authorised and reclassified for deployment under registry number NCC-900, pending commissioning.
[ ] UFS Copernicus, named for astronomers and astrophysicists.
[ ] UFS Everest, named for mountains.
[ ] UFS Beagle, named after ships of exploration.
[ ] Other
Project Copernicus
Single Target Rating: 19
Multi-Target Rating: 13
-Average Damage: 13
-Max Sustained Damage: 26
-Alpha Strike Damage: 56
-Coverage: 100%
-Maneuverability: Medium-Low
Defense Rating: 54
Engineering: 6 (Shuttles, Transporter, Fabrication, 6 Cargo)
Science: 10 (Astrometrics+Advanced Computing, Geology, Advanced Medicine)
Warp (Efficient Cruise): 5 (125c)
Warp (Maximum Cruise): 6 (216c)
Warp (Maximum Warp): 7 (343c)
Operational Range: 250ly
Industrial Cost: 35 (Civilian) + 63 (Starfleet)
Starfleet Command Rating Score
Cost: D-
Infrastructure: D-
Single Target: A
Multi-Target: A-
Engineering: B
Science: A-
Final Score: B-
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+1 Science, Capability: Advanced Computers, +1 Cost)
[X] 3: Cargo Bay (+2 Engineering, Capability: +6 Cargo)
[X] 4: Astrometrics (+2 Science, Capability: Astrometrics)
[X] 5: Biosciences (+2 Science, Capability: Advanced Medical)
[X] 6: Geology Lab (+2 Science, Capability: Geology)
Copernicus Mission Certification
The Copernicus design specification is for an explorer vessel capable of diverse missions beyond Federation space. It requires scientific facilities capable of robust analysis of data and samples, and should be capable of independent operations with sporadic contact with Starfleet Command.
It is the judgement of this report that the Copernicus (NX-900) meets these requirements. Details follow.
The Copernicus has a medium operational range at an efficient cruise of Warp 5 and maximum cruise of Warp 6, supported by two antimatter storage units fed into the main warp engine. This translates to an operational range of two hundred and fifty light years from the nearest refuelling station. The Copernicus is capable of a maximum velocity of Warp 7 for twelve hours.
The Copernicus is equipped with a Type-1 shield matrix, twelve Type-1 phaser emitters, and three prototype photon launchers: two forward and one aft. The weapon firing arcs are capable of a maximum output of twenty gigawatts of nadion particle energy in the bow aspect when in pre-fire mode. Standard energy flow supports a continual output of eight gigawatts in all aspects.
The Copernicus masses four hundred and forty eight thousand tons, reduced from projections by the use of prototype electro-ceramic plating. The spaceframe is propelled by three Avidyne Type-2 impulse thrusters each capable of outputting one hundred and forty two kilotons of standard acceleration for a turn time of thirteen seconds at full military thrust.
The Copernicus is serviced by two twelve-meter optical computer stacks, one acting as the primary command processor on decks 4-5, and the second situated below main engineering on decks 11-12. Additional computing power has maximised the effectiveness of the Copernicus' astrometrics suite, while the geology laboratory provides planetside analysis capabilities. It is also equipped with an advanced medical and diagnostics bay with beds for sixteen and an isolation and biomedical lab attached to sickbay.
The Copernicus has an aft-opening shuttlebay with a standard complement of four shuttlepods (2 active, 2 disassembled). This is supplemented by a biological-rated transporter system for the rapid deployment of personnel and supplies. Cargo is stored in the aft saucer section on deck 6, with room for six hundred standard containers. On-site fabrication and assembly is provided by a workshop and prototyping section on deck 12.
Internal Review of the Copernicus Design, San Francisco Fleetyards
The Copernicus is an extremely expensive starship, requiring substantial outlays to the civilian sector for manufacture of hull materials and standard operating systems. This is compounded by an equally onerous expense to the Utopia Planitia manufacturing center for her substantial armament and defensive systems. This is somewhat mitigated by the reduction in mass provided by the new electro-ceramic plating and a reduction in the aft phaser emplacements, but remains prohibitive. Accordingly the Copernicus is awarded one point out of eleven for both civilian and starfleet cost metrics, resulting in a D- in these sectors.
Tactically the Copernicus is equipped with weapons able to aggressively prosecute both single and multiple targets, with a minimum of two phaser emitters capable of outputting the full eight gigawatt grid throughput to weapons at any target, with more substantial yields available with selective use of pre-fire charging. The new photon warhead prototypes provide an unexpectedly high but highly effective source of damage in the longitudinal axis. Accordingly the Copernicus is awarded maximum points in the standard combat metric despite a reduced armament, and ten out of eleven points in the fleet combat metric for a result of A and A- in these sectors.
The Copernicus is equipped with a fabrication suite allowing local manufacturing on a small scale, as well as an expansive cargo bay. The provision of a transporter and an aft shuttlebay provides varied means of movement on and off the ship with and without equipment. The ship is capable of supporting itself as well as carrying a substantial amount of cargo, and is therefore awarded eight points out of eleven, a B.
The Copernicus is equipped with specialist astrometric, biomedical, and geological laboratories to allow detailed survey and analysis of phenomena in these categories, but is otherwise limited to standard equipment in other fields. This disadvantage is offset by the addition of a secondary computer core able to service non-vital tasks in a more timely fashion. The Copernicus is correspondingly awarded ten points out of eleven for a targeted but effective provision of scientific expertise for its mission, an A-.
Overall despite the major expense, the Copernicus has leveraged its cost into a wide range of capabilities slightly beyond those projected for a vessel of its cost. Accordingly the Copernicus as a whole is rated as seven points out of eleven, a B-. The designers are to be congratulated for a reliable design that is more than the sum of its parts.
In concordance with the findings of this review and in consultation with Starfleet Command, Supervisor San Francisco authorises one (1) production run of five vessels, further orders to be reviewed after a performance analysis in five years.
Copernicus prototype is authorised and reclassified for deployment under registry number NCC-900, pending commissioning.
[ ] UFS Copernicus, named for astronomers and astrophysicists.
[ ] UFS Everest, named for mountains.
[ ] UFS Beagle, named after ships of exploration.
[ ] Other
Project Copernicus
Single Target Rating: 19
Multi-Target Rating: 13
-Average Damage: 13
-Max Sustained Damage: 26
-Alpha Strike Damage: 56
-Coverage: 100%
-Maneuverability: Medium-Low
Defense Rating: 54
Engineering: 6 (Shuttles, Transporter, Fabrication, 6 Cargo)
Science: 10 (Astrometrics+Advanced Computing, Geology, Advanced Medicine)
Warp (Efficient Cruise): 5 (125c)
Warp (Maximum Cruise): 6 (216c)
Warp (Maximum Warp): 7 (343c)
Operational Range: 250ly
Industrial Cost: 35 (Civilian) + 63 (Starfleet)
Starfleet Command Rating Score
Cost: D-
Infrastructure: D-
Single Target: A
Multi-Target: A-
Engineering: B
Science: A-
Final Score: B-
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Alpha strike 56.
Well, nobody is going to ignore THAT opening for a long while.
I guess we rolled well on the photon torpedo prototype rolls.
Well, nobody is going to ignore THAT opening for a long while.
I guess we rolled well on the photon torpedo prototype rolls.
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- He/Him
[X] UFS Copernicus, named for astronomers and astrophysicists.
Absolute rock bottom cost score.
Still votes for a set of five on the initial production run.
Pop the champagne, boys and girls, that's how you know you did damn good.
[X] Other - UFS Darwin, named after explorers and taxonomists
I can't think of a good word to replace "classifiers" with, but the intent is "someone who was famous for discovering, cataloguing, and recording really interesting information". So if someone can come up with a better term, please do so and I'll use that instead.
Also really want to name this thing with something as an on the nose reference to both "It takes a special kind of dumb to lose a ship like this" and "it takes a special kind of dumb to pick a fight with a ship like this".
EDIT: thanks to ShuTheDragon for the word check
Still votes for a set of five on the initial production run.
Pop the champagne, boys and girls, that's how you know you did damn good.
[X] Other - UFS Darwin, named after explorers and taxonomists
I can't think of a good word to replace "classifiers" with, but the intent is "someone who was famous for discovering, cataloguing, and recording really interesting information". So if someone can come up with a better term, please do so and I'll use that instead.
Also really want to name this thing with something as an on the nose reference to both "It takes a special kind of dumb to lose a ship like this" and "it takes a special kind of dumb to pick a fight with a ship like this".
EDIT: thanks to ShuTheDragon for the word check
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Strunkriidiisk
THE LEGEND
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
lmao
[X] UFS Sagarmāthā
Everest, Olympus Mons, Caloris...
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- Location
- The Endless Abyss of Middle America
- Pronouns
- He/Him
yeah, thats .... a LOT of dacka in a single strike.
Theunderbolt
"Prepare for trouble..."
- Location
- USoA
Lowest is an F iirc
The pattern is pretty set. We do a medium ship, then a little ship, then a big ship.
Pretty sure a D- was stated to be the lowest score and that Starfleet design would not submit a design they knew would fail and thus we would not be given the option to vote for a failing set of options.