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Starfleet Design Bureau

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Nyvis said:
I don't think we get a torpedo and our choice of phaser emplacements if we pick the option with the least surface area to fit them.
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Sure, we're not going to get a lot, but I suspect we'll get some defenses, and 2 banks is the same as the Zheng He, and a torpedo/probe launcher aft is a reasonable cargo bay replacement.

Edit: I'm also open to the full saucer arrangement and a heavier ship. The half-saucer seems like the worst option here.
 
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Raw90 said:
Sure, we're not going to get a lot, but I suspect we'll get some defenses, and 2 banks is the same as the Zheng He, and a torpedo/probe launcher aft is a reasonable cargo bay replacement.

Edit: I'm also open to the full saucer arrangement and a heavier ship. The half-saucer seems like the worst option here.
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The Zheng He is a minimalist cargo ship, I think we can and should do better knowing what kind of nonsense survey ships can face.

I agree the half saucer is probably not the answer, we don't really need the mobility and the lost internal space is contrary to this ship's mission.
 
In terms of fitting in scientific equipment and sensors, we don't have a much better choice than a full saucer section. Even disregarding the cost and the potential of weapons mounts, the scientific capability would be well worth it, in my opinion.
 
Nyvis said:
The Zheng He is a minimalist cargo ship, I think we can and should do better knowing what kind of nonsense survey ships can face.

I agree the half saucer is probably not the answer, we don't really need the mobility and the lost internal space is contrary to this ship's mission.
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This is a fair point, Oberths are getting reduced to scrap by random science events all the time, and we should avoid that. On the other hand, we do need to think about costs again, so we shouldn't build everything to the largest size. Sphere is cheap and has lots of internal space for labs for little industrial effort.
 
Raw90 said:
This is a fair point, Oberths are getting reduced to scrap by random science events all the time, and we should avoid that. On the other hand, we do need to think about costs again, so we shouldn't build everything to the largest size. Sphere is cheap and has lots of internal space for labs for little industrial effort.
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We do need good surface area for sensors and a minimal armament set though. I think it's worth investing so we lose less of those even if we get to build fewer because of that. They're also going to be a lot of our officers' first command and I'd rather they not end too many career prematurely by being death traps.
 
Again, Half-Saucers do not have less space than the Orb, they have the same amount. The difference is that their base cost is 50% higher.

The upside is that ORB is a sitting duck against anything that breathes on it wrong, in exchange for being insanely cheap, while the Half-Saucer at least has excellent maneuverability
 
I want me some internal space and maybe a prototype cruise engine if possible.
 
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Nyvis said:
We do need good surface area for sensors and a minimal armament set though. I think it's worth investing so we lose less of those even if we get to build fewer because of that. They're also going to be a lot of our officers' first command and I'd rather they not end too many career prematurely by being death traps.
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You know, I think you've convinced me. I'm still interested in a fairly minimal armament, but you make a good point about commands. These ships are also going to have to respond to a variety of events in their first years, before we get other Warp 7 ships.
 
What good is maneuverability (the advantage of the half-saucer) to a science-survey ship?
 
I think it should be a sphere for two reasons. First, it doesn't need to be spectacular, yes the best sensors we can get should be a given, but it's a survey ship that's staying close to home. If it needs a specific type of laboratory or equipment it's never going to be that far from the nearest starbase to change things out. Second, if we minimize our industry usage now then we'll have more industry later as the idle factories construct more factories. Which means we can make a nicer ship down the line. It also means we can make more of them, so it doesn't matter so much if a handful have accidents.
 
Zimmerwald1915 said:
What good is maneuverability (the advantage of the half-saucer) to a science-survey ship?
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The ability to navigate through tight negative space wedgies? The ability to escape pirates? Especially since we're probably going to save up space by not having torpedoes?

Maneuverability isn't a dumpstat for a Science Ship, it's just not a primary focus. But "Will explode if breathed on wrong" in exchange for a slight reduction in expense isn't worth it.
 
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Going big on the main hull might let us get away with a smaller/minimal secondary hull and still have room to do the mission. If we go for one of the smaller options we're likely going to need to either pick a more expensive/roomy secondary hull style or just aim for the bare minimum needed to get the job done.
 
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I'd say we stick with the tried-and-tested phase cannons for this, and then if we get to the utility cruiser we can try out the prototype phasers?
 
Hmm... for me Sphere or Full Saucer- Full Saucer if we want to pack it to the max with scientific facilities and extra computers and what not, Sphere if we want a cheaper option

Jensaarai said:
I'd say we stick with the tried-and-tested phase cannons for this, and then if we get to the utility cruiser we can try out the prototype phasers?
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Better to work out any kinks on a design that shouldnt really need to use them that much
 
I'd prefer the agile half-saucer for survivability reasons, and saving the full saucers for explorers.
 
Ramble said:
I say go full saucer just so that there's space to put all of the sciency bullshit that we need to cram into it.
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We'll be able to get a fair amount of Sciency Bullshit even in a half-saucer. This is not a selection between "Do the Job we're designing it for" or "Fail at the Spaceframe Stage" We wouldn't even have a chance to vote if a Full Saucer was required to get a functional Survey Cruiser.

All of these can do the role, but we're choosing between "Do we want it to have a fully developed secondary function too" vs "Choose between Super Cheap or Good Maneuverability"

ORB is super cheap and gets there by dumpstatting everything else, Half-Saucer is moderately priced but is at least an agile spaceframe that can outmaneuver threats and presumably defend itself from low level dangers and space fauna. We can compensate for some reduced internal size compared to the Full Saucer by not including a Torpedo Armament, which will likely give us another internal slot.
 
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That's a fair point. I'm leaning towards the middle-ground of the half-saucer with some thought. If there were a way to scale up the orb and offset some of its weaknesses at a trade-off for cost, then I might consider it, but the half-saucer offers a nice balance between space and cost.
 
Sayle said:
The order is for a survey ship capable of undertaking scientific investigations in relatively safe space.
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so by the sounds of it this will be a second wave science ship that will not venture beyond the borders of the federation or will rarely be in unsafe situations. as this is our first ship from the war it should probably be cheap to allow industry to grow. as such I think the sphere is the best option.
 
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