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Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
So the problem with the Romulans tactically is their cloaking capabilities which let them cripple the Endeavour before it could really fight back.
The main suggested options are "stuff enough Science into a ship to at least partially fight Romulan cloaking" (though I believe Sayle has noted that option is largely infeasible) or "create a large enough battleship that it can survive the alpha strike and retain enough combat capability to punch back."
There could be a third option though of "mass produce enough ships that Starfleet can absorb the occasional loss to Romulan ambush", or just allowing ships to act in squadrons that would be much harder to ambush and completely wipe than single ships.
I kinda like that theoretical third option the best. I feel trying to make big Battleships would be too exhausting on Earth's industry compared to a bunch of smaller, less expensive vessels.
The main suggested options are "stuff enough Science into a ship to at least partially fight Romulan cloaking" (though I believe Sayle has noted that option is largely infeasible) or "create a large enough battleship that it can survive the alpha strike and retain enough combat capability to punch back."
There could be a third option though of "mass produce enough ships that Starfleet can absorb the occasional loss to Romulan ambush", or just allowing ships to act in squadrons that would be much harder to ambush and completely wipe than single ships.
I kinda like that theoretical third option the best. I feel trying to make big Battleships would be too exhausting on Earth's industry compared to a bunch of smaller, less expensive vessels.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Huh, that is an unexpected desire to fight to the death.
These are pirates. Just be ransomed if you are in an impossible situation, no need to blow yourself up.
[X] Recommend the continued production of the Stingray as a mainline tactical vessel.
It's a proven design we already know how to build and a match for Romulan ships.
It's a proven design we already know how to build and a match for Romulan ships.
Or the pirates might kill them and suddenly have a capable ship to wreak havoc across the sector in.
- Location
- United States
Yes, but pirates in control of a (Mostly)Functional Stingray would be a disaster, and while they failed to blow themselves up they at least prevented that.
[X] Recommend the continued production of the Stingray as a mainline tactical vessel.
Cloaked ships are Space Submarines, so Space Destroyer seems like the better counter than Space Battleship. And if the warbirds can sink an Enterprise-class from ambush, I don't give us good odds of making a battleship that will hold up.
The frigate is also an option - if the goal is strength in numbers, we could go all out - but we've already got the Stingray production line spun up and I'm skeptical we can cut much from it and still have it be a good warship.
Like, the Stingray is 3 phase cannons and 2 torpedo tubes, the Zheng He is 2 phase cannons, I don't see much room for a middle ground between the two.
Cloaked ships are Space Submarines, so Space Destroyer seems like the better counter than Space Battleship. And if the warbirds can sink an Enterprise-class from ambush, I don't give us good odds of making a battleship that will hold up.
The frigate is also an option - if the goal is strength in numbers, we could go all out - but we've already got the Stingray production line spun up and I'm skeptical we can cut much from it and still have it be a good warship.
Like, the Stingray is 3 phase cannons and 2 torpedo tubes, the Zheng He is 2 phase cannons, I don't see much room for a middle ground between the two.
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Are these still mostly flavor votes or is there a (more) correct decision here?
[X] Support the construction of a heavily-armed battleship capable of enduring combat with multiple attackers.
I don't think battleships are the play, they'll just increase the size of their wolf packs and then it's the same as the Endeavor writ larger; no ship can be permanently on maximum readiness. I suspect groups of smaller vessels on rotating readiness would be able to weather the strikes better, but if that's for Stingrays or going smaller I don't know.
- Location
- Kiel; Germany
Put only one launcher and two phase cannons on it, making it half the size of the Stingray. Small, cheap, quickly produced and two can bring the same damage as a Stingray.
Earth faces two problems with the Romulans:
1. Technological they are far more advanced than Starfleet. Even under the best circumstances, they will eventually out-tech us if we try to go toe on toe with them.
2. Cloaks. This allows them to dictate the initial phase of any engagement. We know where they strike if we have many cheap units and just one big, juicy target. Additionally, if one or two of the frigates get killed - so what - we can easily replace them.
Taking a cue from history, frigates were the most effective means against U-boats until the air cover was closed over the Atlantic Ocean during WW2. Put out a bunch of these small frigates around a Stingray, and you have a pretty good hunting group.
[X] Support the construction of a heavily-armed battleship capable of enduring combat with multiple attackers.
Empress_Boog
Grand Empress
I've been convinced by these two arguments, and I agree that Stingrays would be the best choice here.
This is a good historical example, but I'm not convinced that a ship with two cannons and one launcher, even in numbers, is actually enough to fight toe to toe with warbirds. These frigates will be almost always one shot by ships coming out of cloak, since they will be smaller and carry less armor.
[X] Recommend the continued production of the Stingray as a mainline tactical vessel.
- Location
- USA
I will also point out on the subject of battleships, they do next to nothing to address the current strategic paradigm.
A battleship for every colony will not solve the problem of Romulans picking off isolated Enterprise class vessels.
All honesty, I think just sending out more hulls may be the best option. Making it as hard as we can for the Romulans to find a ship flying solo.
A battleship for every colony will not solve the problem of Romulans picking off isolated Enterprise class vessels.
All honesty, I think just sending out more hulls may be the best option. Making it as hard as we can for the Romulans to find a ship flying solo.
Luminous
God Save The Queen
- Location
- Victoria, BC, Canada
Only issue is that this isn't 1943 and the Romulans aren't Nazi Germany. U-boats have very limited capability to engage and deal damage compared to normal surface vessels. Their main advantage is stealth and most useful against cargo ships.
Romulan Warbirds are more like Japanese Cruisers if they could also go invisible. Spamming a bunch of shitty ships is mostly just going to end with a bunch of destroyed small ships and dead Starfleet personnel. The Stingray is the medium point between mass producible enough to cover our space but not shit enough to just die when spat on.
[X] Recommend the continued production of the Stingray as a mainline tactical vessel.
Everything is all tooled up for aggressive production of Stingrays anyways. We already mobilized production around a pretty decent middleweight design from my understanding, just keep the yards running at full tilt instead of retooling for some unproven napkinwaffe
Everything is all tooled up for aggressive production of Stingrays anyways. We already mobilized production around a pretty decent middleweight design from my understanding, just keep the yards running at full tilt instead of retooling for some unproven napkinwaffe
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
You're missing the X in the brackets.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
[X] Advocate for the construction of a minimally expensive combat frigate capable of engaging the small Romulan ships one-on-one.
[X] Recommend the continued production of the Stingray as a mainline tactical vessel.
I personally think a ship cheap enough that we can deploy them in squadrons rather than the single-ship patrols we have to do now would be best, but I'll vote for the Stingrays to beat Battleships because I think "more ships" will help us against the Romulans more than "larger, better ships."
[X] Recommend the continued production of the Stingray as a mainline tactical vessel.
I personally think a ship cheap enough that we can deploy them in squadrons rather than the single-ship patrols we have to do now would be best, but I'll vote for the Stingrays to beat Battleships because I think "more ships" will help us against the Romulans more than "larger, better ships."
- Pronouns
- He/They
My concern with continuing to produce Stingrays is that it may hold back our technology, preventing us from using prototypes that may provide an advantage and allow further refits. We may want to design a cutting-edge class, frigate or battleship, but produce them in relatively small numbers, while also producing a few Stingrays if possible.
- Location
- The internet
[X] Recommend the continued production of the Stingray as a mainline tactical vessel.
I'd say that the only ships weaker than the Stingray that we should use are repurposed captured pirate vessels. I wouldn't want to rely on them long term but there's a decent chance we grabbed one or two Nausicaan raiders in repairable condition in the three bases we captured. Pirates aren't known for fighting to the death after all.
I'd say that the only ships weaker than the Stingray that we should use are repurposed captured pirate vessels. I wouldn't want to rely on them long term but there's a decent chance we grabbed one or two Nausicaan raiders in repairable condition in the three bases we captured. Pirates aren't known for fighting to the death after all.