Remove ads

Starfleet Design Bureau

Linked contents
Starship Design Bureau Starfleet Design Bureau
Reader mode
luckless21 said:
It's funny seeing people go "we don't need the best weapons load possible for our boom and zoom ship, but we need the super expensive prototype shields."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There is an argument to be made for shield tech, given this is the first real jump (not even leap) we've had for decades. However I'm more than confident in saying that with our savings on forward phasers we can handily afford to go for a rear phaser/torpedo and covariant shields of a decent standard.
 
Sayle said:
I think that would be the surviving NXs and Warspite from the Earth-Romulan War, plus the Curiosity, Cygnus, Sagarmatha, and Selachii. The Sagarmatha at least has a complete name list, and at the outbreak of war I think there were only a handful of Selachii out of the dockyards? I might be misremembering.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Selatchii wouldn't be out quite then (we were most of the way through the Type Three Nacelle at the time) but yeah, about what I figured.

Anyway.
In anticipation of having to fight hard to at least get a Standard Covarint on this thing,
[NEG] Aft Torpedo (Cost 73 -> 75.25) [Second Tranche: 67 -> 69.25]

Edit: Vote changed in light of minimal cost savings and very close vote (tied as of this edit)

This being said I won't actually mind if
[X] Aft Phaser, Aft Torpedo (Cost 73 -> 79.25) [Second Tranche: 67 -> 73.25]
wins, as long as we have the ability to shoot things in the aft arc I'll be happy.


To everyone who is worried about costs: Remember that in the context of this quest, the canonical Constitution design likely had a cost somewhere in the 80s. Given our Federation is explicitly more wealthy at this time than the OTL, I have been assuming that we can reasonably go to even a three-digit Cost value and still get at least as many built as the OTL did, and have been shooting for an Ideal Target Number somewhere in the 90s; given this ship is going to be slightly smaller but a vastly more capable combatant. Yes, it's likely to be more expensive than the canon-Connie, but you get what you pay for and we have more money to spend than our OTL counterparts did during this time period.
 
Last edited:
gamer50018 said:
We will probably end up building a second warship design soon enough, as I doubt we will defeat the Klingons very quickly. What does everyone believe we should make as the second part of the combat fleet to complement the Fakestitution (Actual Name Pending)?

My personal vote is for a new Heavy Frigate. We've had something of a tradition of having one of those, ever since the Skate. On the other hand, that kinda leads to some overlap, since this thing is stupidly fast. We could instead make a capital ship, and finally create Thunderchild's heir - a comparatively slow but heavily armed and durable behemoth would give this design the perfect partner to anchor itself to. But I want to make a real explorer at some point for Kirk, and I don't remember off the top of my head when he shows up. Don't wanna take too long.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Okay, that one needs corection THIS SHIP IS PROJECT CONSTITUTION!!!! Until the thread has finished a name vote for the first one the name stays and even later will appear in the history books under this project name. Please if all you want is a different name vote for that once we get there and stop posting the fakestitution thing or its variant every post.

darkstarling said:
Light Covarient Shields is my current plan, unless we get really convincing arguments.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean i would love the heavy covariant ones but i settle for any covariant to get them out of prototype faster.
 
[X] Aft Torpedo (Cost 73 -> 75.25) [Second Tranche: 67 -> 69.25]

I think there's a strong argument for nothing at all to be put aft, considering the forward facing armament, I just find a single aft torpedo to be sorta funny for some reason.
 
As much as I'd like to meme on the KDF, I have to agree. Light Covariants will likely do us just fine, Standard if we're feeling particularly like styling on the Klingons in that department.

Edit: In shifting my statement to Heavy Standards from Light Covariants, the point makes a lot more sense.
 
Last edited:
StriderInCosmos said:
Now there's a consideration that I hadn't taken into account when making my figures. With that being the case, we probably have a little more cushion than I, or most anyone else, had expected to have.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We invested all that time and money in boosting economic growth, after all, because one of the things we know makes the NextGen-plus time period Federation a local superpower is its ability to go "Lol, ECONOMY" at people (witness, slamming out Galaxy class starships during the Dominion War like the States slamming out Fletcher class destroyers in WW II). A large and wealthy economy is itself a strategic asset, after all. being able to spend three quataloos for every quataloo spent by your competition can win wars too.

Edit: We even see this principle in microcosm during the Earth-Romulan war of the quest's timeline: We as United Earth slammed out the entire run of Skate class ships during the last six months of the war, not to mention all three Thunderchilds, most of the Stingrays, and a fair few NXs in the bargain over the course of the war in general. And if you look at the tranche sizes, we were still spinning up as the war progressed. sure, we ended up losing most of it at Cheron, but it's a good demonstration of economy being a thing that can win wars.
 
Last edited:
I think after this we should probably build a generalist utility ship in the light cruiser/heavy frigate range. Something that can be built fairly cheaply and has a little bit of science/engineering while also being reasonably capable in a fight. Like B ranks across the board. Just something to have in numbers across the Federation where it can be a good first responder to any situation before one of our S class specialists rolls in and otherwise bulks out the fleet enough to deter more opportunism.
 
Mechanis said:
To everyone who is worried about costs: Remember that in the context of this quest, the canonical Constitution design likely had a cost somewhere in the 80s. Given our Federation is explicitly more wealthy at this time than the OTL, I have been assuming that we can reasonably go to even a three-digit Cost value and still get at least as many built as the OTL did, and have been shooting for an Ideal Target Number somewhere in the 90s; given this ship is going to be slightly smaller but a vastly more capable combatant. Yes, it's likely to be more expensive than the canon-Connie, but you get what you pay for and we have more money to spend than our OTL counterparts did during this time period.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There's not some line that says we only need this many ships. Every extra ship we can afford adds value.
StriderInCosmos said:
As much as I'd like to meme on the KDF, I have to agree. Light Covariants will likely do us just fine, Standard if we're feeling particularly like styling on the Klingons in that department.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Light covariant seems like a worse option by almost all metrics. We spend almost as much as heavy standard for worse performance, in order to advance the tech? We're sending these ships into a war. I don't like the other covariant options for their price but that doesn't mean that I think we should sacrifice performance for future tech.
 
As well as the aforementioned stronger economy/industrial base (letting us go all late 1800s/early 1900s USA) having our heavy cruisers more able to kick the shit out of the Klingon D7 and other ships (and having that publicised during the war/after it) means we'll probably also end up with more members joining in the long run too.

Not only will we make those who stand with us rich, our fleet will be more than able to protect those riches. Something a lot of people are going to consider when the Klingons start going around the quadrant making protectorates, or 'teaching' Klingonee.
 
Well, I would say we should build the Miranda-class equivalent next but my heart says ... Oberth-class! We need the flying death-trap banana next!
 
DeltaV11.2 said:
We're sending these ships into a war. I don't like the other covariant options for their price but that doesn't mean that I think we should sacrifice performance for future tech.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

At the very least, we should keep the tech in our back pocket for the next design. This is the first decent advance we've seen in shield tech, as has been noted, since shield technology has been introduced to Starfleet as a whole. If we can at least get it off of the drawing board, there'll be little reason to continue with current Type-1 tech going forward besides budget considerations.
 
[X] No Aft Armament (Cost 73) [Second Tranche: 67]
[X] Aft Torpedo (Cost 73 -> 75.25) [Second Tranche: 67 -> 69.25]

Makes no sense to me to put so much armament in the rear for a ship with such maneuverability and agility. This is precisely the kind of design where you can get away with not having an aft armament. If we are going for an aft armament, then the full coverage of our forward/side armament would have been the logical choice instead.
 
StriderInCosmos said:
Now there's a consideration that I hadn't taken into account when making my figures. With that being the case, we probably have a little more cushion than I, or most anyone else, had expected to have.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Why would we go Light Covariants? Not only will they always have less HP then heavy normal, but we have to buy six ships for every one in the first run of ships to realize any cost savings.

The shield will be standard in 2235 anyway.
 
Circling back on what we can expect the budget to be for this thing, the Federation launched 16 Newtons and 10 Archers at around the same time.

The costs for those ships are 47 (Newton) and 51 (Archer) so they collectively spent around 16*47+51*10=1262 on that initial batch.

Comparing that to the cost estimates for the Connie that I made which included rear Phasers and torpedoes that comes out to ~13 ships assuming tranche 1 costs with a Large Regular Shield.

Cutting 4 cost from each of those (most popular votes are all in or just torpedoe) 13 ships would amount to a little over half of an extra Connie.

I'd personally favor the extra Phasers in that case.

Edit:
If we went ham on the Shields and got the Large Covariants which would up tranche 1 costs to 116.69 per ship assuming max rear armaments you could still afford ten and a half ships while with only rear torpedoes it would still be 10 but with ~69% of a ship instead of ~50%.
 
Last edited:
DeltaV11.2 said:
There's not some line that says we only need this many ships. Every extra ship we can afford adds value.

Light covariant seems like a worse option by almost all metrics. We spend almost as much as heavy standard for worse performance, in order to advance the tech? We're sending these ships into a war. I don't like the other covariant options for their price but that doesn't mean that I think we should sacrifice performance for future tech.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah I do not support in any way putting light shields on this vessel. Either the Standard Covarint or Large Basic is about the minimum shield strength I think is reasonably acceptable for this vessel; given both have about the same shield strength. Obviously I would prefer the Covariant Shields to, if nothing else, push the technology forward so it's cheaper on our next project; our shield technology has been languishing for nearly a century at this point and I don't think it wise to delay any advancement we're offered more than we already have.

edit: Obviously my real preference is for the Large Covarint for the most strength we can put on it, cost be damned, but I realize that there's not a lot of support for that out of cost concerns.
 
Last edited:
LOLROFL said:
Comparing that to the cost estimates for the Connie that I made which included rear Phasers and torpedoes that comes out to ~13 ships assuming tranche 1 costs with a Large Regular Shield.

Cutting 4 cost from each of those (most popular votes are all in or just torpedoe) 13 ships would amount to a little over half of an extra Connie.

I'd personally favor the extra Phasers in that case.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
An important thing to note here is that the original canon batch of Connie's was probably just 12 ships (given Kirk's statement of there being only a dozen like her), so even if we do go for aft phaser/torpedo we're still getting 1 more ship than in canon.

Really no reason not to go for it, given we wouldn't even be able to get another if we skimp out on aft armament.
 
I'm not going to be really choosy on shields for this build, because what I THOUGHT was going to be the second coming of the Thunderchild has quickly become a ship that is more built around speed, and if the Covariants are going to become standardized by the time the first tranche comes online anyway, there's no real point in pushing the tech evelope in this situation.

Hell, it'll likely be standard in the War Era design we might end up doing.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top