I don't know how to read that. Newton is at cost 30, but plans to add abother +17 cost before its design is complete? Why say it that way instead of "Cost 47"? Or is it some complicated thing where the NPC design team might change their remaining costs in response to a random roll or in response to our decisions?
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I don't know how to read that. Newton is at cost 30, but plans to add abother +17 cost before its design is complete? Why say it that way instead of "Cost 47"? Or is it some complicated thing where the NPC design team might change their remaining costs in response to a random roll or in response to our decisions?
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If you don't mind, could you please tell us... everything about the Newton so far? Or is that too much to ask?
You can have a look at the canon nuTrek design. Half saucer, two impulse engines, two detached engineering sections with shuttlebays and two nacelles.
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- Actually pretty lost
On a different ship I'd take the increased weapons and mature shields. On a cargo ship, I think minimal weapons and stronger shields is more in line with what their combat doctrine will be, i.e. "run away!" (or in really tough spots, "drop the cargo pod and run away!")
And that's before considering getting the shield tech up to scratch before the incoming Klingon war.
And that's before considering getting the shield tech up to scratch before the incoming Klingon war.
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This is where we decide if this is 'just' a cargo ship or not. We've been burned before by taking minimal loadouts on specialized ships, then been told it would've been used a lot more if it had a better Tactical score. I don't want to make that mistake again.
NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
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I'm not convinced taking a doctrine of "Run away" on a ship that will have an obsolete warp engine that we can't upgrade is viable in the slightest.
Ideally yes it should, but it's not that fast at warp speeds.
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The last big one i remember is the Kea.
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- alphen aan den rijn
I am sure if war brakes out we can upgun. New shield might be harder.
But can we really afford to slip into the Cs for cost? We are already at B- and A+ to B- is apparently a 4 cost point swing. Going with 2 extra phasers is another 4 points of cost and improving the shields is another 5. That's 9 points total and would put us 13 cost points behind the Newton.
The Newton seems to be going to a fast ship with for and back armaments. They have less mass than us and twice the thrust. They are going to be nimble and able to make use of a minimal armament.
I say we should let them take the combat engineer role. Go with the standard shield and 2 phaser load out and stick to the back lines.
NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
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Will we want to upgun a cargo ship over spending our effort on the next versions of the Skate or Thunderchild?
We upgraded the Stingray yes but that was prewar.
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Everytime we do that we get told it's a bad thing.
NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
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A Combat engineer isn't a rear line vessel. Also I don't think our rear lines are going to be anywhere near as safe as you're imaging them to be.
Also it isn't fast, it's maneuverable without the cargo pod and will have a good in system speed, but it's going to be instantly outclassed in warp speed by our next ship and probably every ship after that.
I think people are confused on what an impulse engine is actually used for.
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That's not the weapon loadout you give a combat engineer. That's what you put on a cargo ship.
No, you misunderstand. We are not building the Newton. That's SanFran's ship. It's a half saucer with twice our thrusters. It promises to be fast and maneuverable at sublight and so can afford to put the same 2 phasers on target consistently and so can do the role of combat engineer without spending a lot on 100% coverage.
We can't. We just can't do that because of the choices we made. We cannot reasonably get 100% coverage and will likely lose the maneuverability race due to only being able to mount one thruster. We will never be a good combat ship.
So I think we shouldn't try to be a combat engineer. We survive the Klingon war so I think we should plant to have our specific ship not overly contribute but rather increase our growth in the aftermath. Let the Newton be the combat ship. Focus on engineering above all and keep cost down as much as feasible.
We are a cargo ship. The Newton can focus on engineering and combat. We should focus on engineering and logistics.
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Four phasers are this ship'sversion of the Kea's torpedoes.
Enthusiast#117
This is not the Profile you are looking for
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- United States
[X] 2 Phaser Banks, 2 Torpedo Launchers [Cost: 10]
[X] Type-1 Shield System [Mature] [-25% Cost] [Cost: 3]
We can match them on price with this.
[X] Type-1 Shield System [Mature] [-25% Cost] [Cost: 3]
We can match them on price with this.
NexusEye
Aspiring God
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Unless someone comes up with an argument that persuades me otherwise I'm leaning towards both +2 phasers and covariant shields. Yes it'll be 9 points more expensive than the Newton but at 56 vs 47 it'll only be ~20% costlier, meanwhile it would significantly increase its combat ability when we know a war is going to happen soon, a war which will include raiding Federation territory and likely going to try and disrupt our logistics by going after supply ships like the Halley, plus by implementing the new shield tech now we could accelerate the progress towards the next-gen shields.
Edit: actually the moratorium has already passed, I can vote now.
[X] +2 Phaser Banks (1 Fore, 1 Aft) [4 Phaser Banks, 2 Launchers] [Cost: 14]
[X] Type-1 Covariant Shield System [Prototype] [+25% Cost] [Cost: 8]
Edit: actually the moratorium has already passed, I can vote now.
[X] +2 Phaser Banks (1 Fore, 1 Aft) [4 Phaser Banks, 2 Launchers] [Cost: 14]
[X] Type-1 Covariant Shield System [Prototype] [+25% Cost] [Cost: 8]
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NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
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Okay yeah I'll admit I misread what you were saying, that said I still disagree.
The Klingon war is still over 20 years away, were not designing a ship for afterwards. We're designing one for now.
No one is trying to make this a ship to send into combat. Our rearlines are not going to be some safe space, we're going to be fighting a cloaked enemy who like to ambush, this ship will be their prime target, especially with a massive visible cargo container.
Giving it neither of these upgrades makes it a deathtrap. I'd rather have served on a Stingray against the romulans than one of these if it ends up with basic shields and only two phasers.
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Then I think we should go with the regular shields. One or the other, not both, and I think phasers is the one to go with if we go with any extra cost. The shield improvement still leaves this ship not a combat ship, but makes things better for later ships. 4 phasers lets us roll and keep a single target, even one more maneuverable than us, under phaser fire.
But I am still going to vote budget
[X] 2 Phaser Banks, 2 Torpedo Launchers [Cost: 10]
[X] Type-1 Shield System [Mature] [-25% Cost] [Cost: 3]
The Newton is just going to be a better combat ship. It is cheaper than us and will have fewer systems so will only get cheaper compared to us. Let's save cost so Starfleet can build more ships.
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[X] +2 Phaser Banks (1 Fore, 1 Aft) [4 Phaser Banks, 2 Launchers] [Cost: 14]
[X] Type-1 Covariant Shield System [Prototype] [+25% Cost] [Cost: 8]
Project Halley may not win any slugging matches, but I want anyone willing to raid our space to know they've been kissed.
[X] Type-1 Covariant Shield System [Prototype] [+25% Cost] [Cost: 8]
Project Halley may not win any slugging matches, but I want anyone willing to raid our space to know they've been kissed.
MordredRaal
Agitating
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[X] 2 Phaser Banks, 2 Torpedo Launchers [Cost: 10]
[X] Type-1 Shield System [Mature] [-25% Cost] [Cost: 3]
[X] Type-1 Shield System [Mature] [-25% Cost] [Cost: 3]
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- Buskerud, Norway
[X] 2 Phaser Banks, 2 Torpedo Launchers [Cost: 10]
[X] Type-1 Shield System [Mature] [-25% Cost] [Cost: 3]
I genuinelly don't think we should spend more than this on tactical it will never be able to compete with the Newton on tactical anyways and the newton most likely will be produced as the more tactical oriented craft. Lets instead spend cost on potential boons to engineering
[X] Type-1 Shield System [Mature] [-25% Cost] [Cost: 3]
I genuinelly don't think we should spend more than this on tactical it will never be able to compete with the Newton on tactical anyways and the newton most likely will be produced as the more tactical oriented craft. Lets instead spend cost on potential boons to engineering
[X] 2 Phaser Banks, 2 Torpedo Launchers [Cost: 10]
[X] Type-1 Shield System [Mature] [-25% Cost] [Cost: 3]
[X] Type-1 Shield System [Mature] [-25% Cost] [Cost: 3]
20% increase in cost for what should be way more than 20% increase in hauling and engineering systems volume. I think the utility will mean starfleet will still buy a ton of these for internal use/logistics and the other design for quick repairs and more combat oriented stuff. This ship can't keep up with a fleet or be responsive enough for contested rescues but it could setup a forward repair base. Going too skimpy either shortchanges our next platform on shielding advancement or else leaves us with too weak a slap to discourage hostiles. We're too slow to run so we might as well throw a sensible amount of gun redundancy or coverage at it.
[X] +2 Phaser Banks (1 Fore, 1 Aft) [4 Phaser Banks, 2 Launchers] [Cost: 14]
[X] Type-1 Covariant Shield System [Prototype] [+25% Cost] [Cost: 8]
TheShadowDeamon
Mighty Dragon
Alright, here's my line of thinking:
The Klingon light ships (BOP equivalent) are incredibly nimble and are a good candidate to use Wolf pack tactics with. If we go for better shields instead of extra turrets then they'll be able to get into and STAY IN the massive blind spots. Nimble we are not and we won't be able to manoeuvre quickly enough to bring them into the weapon arch's. At which point it doesn't matter how good the shields are as the Klingons can stay there and fire away at until they eventually get through.
With extra turrets instead of better shields those blind spots won't exist and we will actually be able to fire back. I don't want to turn this into a Q-ship, this is what I think is actually needed to be able to defend the ship due to the layout.
As for the blind spot below the pod, I did wonder if the 5th turret could go on the bottom of the sphere but apparently that's where the sensor ring is. @Sayle could the 5th turret go behind the ring a few decks up? And as the turret design has them being inside the hull and being lifted out - could it then be on an extra long extending platform? A bit like if the NX-01 shuttle loading arm had a turret on the end of it.