Starfleet Design Bureau

2219: Project Halley (Spaceframe: Part Three)
[X] Engineering With Small Cargo Pod (+43,000 Tons Total) [-0.2 All Warp Factors]

There is a certain elegant simplicity to a standard-issue cargo pod. The frankly enormous volume of empty space and gigantic internal bays allow for the transfer of astonishing amounts of material from one place to another. Their primary disadvantage, in fact, is that not a single vessel carrying one is able to exceed Warp 4. This isn't especially worrisome given the civilian sector deals with major cargo and raw materials, but the Halley is about to change all that by giving Starfleet the option for bulk hauling on its own terms and schedule.

The Halley's engineering section has been expanded out of the northern half of the aft hemisphere, making room for the warp engine, the yet-to-be-installed impulse engines, and a standard shuttlebay. More notable is the ventral clamp that will latch onto the top of a cargo pod and provide it with basic life support and power during the journey. While it seems more likely that the Halley will use the same pod by emptying and refilling it without ever disconnecting, it is fully capable of interfacing with any standard cargo pod.

But now you need to decide on what to do with the nacelles. The sheer bulk of the cargo section means vertical nacelles are out of the question, leaving you either a catamaran-style layout straddling the cargo pod or a more conventional configuration. The catamaran nacelles would bolster the warp field in the vicinity of the pod and all the extra mass, allowing the reclamation of the lost warp efficiency caused by its inclusion. Alternatively a standard cruise layout would sacrifice the already lost maximum cruise and warp factors to further bolster the efficient cruise velocity.

If the ship is expected to ever be in dangerous situations then an extra push out of the warp engines in a sprint could be useful. But if simple efficiency and long-term performance is more of a concern, then the standard configuration may be the way to go. The decision is up to you.

[ ] Cruise Nacelles [5.4 Cruise, 6 Max Cruise, 7 Max Warp] [Operating Range: 78ly]
[ ] Catamaran Nacelles [5.2 Cruise, 6.2 Max Cruise, 7.2 Max Warp] [Operating Range: 70ly]

Two Hour Moratorium, Please

 
I note that in that example picture for the pod, with pod in place only a very tiny portion of the front of the nacelles have line of sight to each other. Can't recall if that's good enough or not.
Edit: update ninja!
 
I think I have to agree with the 'no leaving space' bit. That basically taxes parts from future, more superior ships while reducing the functionality of the current ship. It's just not very good.
I mean. Very much depends on the ship role, and how long you intend a design to be in service vs how fast you expect to bring new tech into service. It's also a matter of how ships are designed; once you fit everything you actually need into the hull, and the wants that your budget allows, you can easily have plenty of "dead space"; and it only makes sense to, whenever possible, concentrate that into as few locations as possible in a rationally lain out manner.
edit: Well, looks like it's best to just run standard Nacelles and have done with it. an 11.5% increase in range is nothing to sneeze at.
 
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... of course the - WF won. I swear this thread is addicted to bad ideas. Ah well,I guess it need to only last 30 odd years anyway.

I'm torn. Max Cruise being higher is good for sprints, but Average Cruise is what the ship will cruise at more often. I'm .. not entirely sure how that works out to Max Cruise having less range, if I'm honest.
 
... of course the - WF won. I swear this thread is addicted to bad ideas. Ah well,I guess it need to only last 30 odd years anyway.

I'm torn. Max Cruise being higher is good for sprints, but Average Cruise is what the ship will cruise at more often. I'm .. not entirely sure how that works out to Max Cruise having less range, if I'm honest.
It's efficient, not average, (I believe?) so if one assumes fuel to be the limiting factor for range then it makes sense for the higher efficiency option to have better range.
Not that 8 lightyears is worth reduced ability to escape danger, in my opinion.
 
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I don't know about you... But given the ships design characteristics (poor phaser placement from orb even with mass firing angles and slow speed compared to alternatives...) it's probably better to just double down on cruise as this things never gonna be a sprinter.

This will means it's more a hauler/engineer vessel than a multirole like the cygnus... But I think the bill already flew on that.
 
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I think Cruise Standard is probably the way to go, if this ship suddenly needs a bit more speed, well. Detaching the Cargo Pod is an option right there.
I mean. Very much depends on the ship role, and how long you intend a design to be in service vs how fast you expect to bring new tech into service. It's also a matter of how ships are designed; once you fit everything you actually need into the hull, and the wants that your budget allows, you can easily have plenty of "dead space"; and it only makes sense to, whenever possible, concentrate that into as few locations as possible in a rationally lain out manner.
While true, realistically speaking there's probably always more room for industrial fabbers and whatnot.
 
[ ] Cruise Nacelles [5.4 Cruise, 6 Max Cruise, 7 Max Warp] [Operating Range: 78ly]

@Sayle Are we going to get a extra fuel tank option for this ship?
 
I can't imagine the cargo pod does the ship's firing arcs any favours either...

I think Cruise Standard is probably the way to go, if this ship suddenly needs a bit more speed, well. Detaching the Cargo Pod is an option right there.

While true, realistically speaking there's probably always more room for industrial fabbers and whatnot.
I believe the default usage for extra space like that (which could be used for later modifications) is usually cargo holds.
Edit: of course "more fabbers" is a valid later modification in that case too.
 
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[ ] Catamaran Nacelles [5.2 Cruise, 6.2 Max Cruise, 7.2 Max Warp] [Operating Range: 70ly]
I would very much like to keep the bulk in vaguely the same area.
 
... of course the - WF won. I swear this thread is addicted to bad ideas. Ah well,I guess it need to only last 30 odd years anyway.

I'm torn. Max Cruise being higher is good for sprints, but Average Cruise is what the ship will cruise at more often. I'm .. not entirely sure how that works out to Max Cruise having less range, if I'm honest.
I mean, I'm at the point of "this isn't the ship I think we should be building, but as I have been consistently outvoted I will just deal with it."

I don't think a basically civilian freighter is what we should have put out right as we're getting into a period of scuffling with the Klingons, but that's the ship we're getting, so may as well lean into it. I suppose we need something for our next explorer class to be rescuing every fifth episode or so.
Slap three phasers on so it can deter BoPs a little bit and hope San Francisco's design can fill the holes.
 
I mean, armed merchantmen were the meta during times where lots of piracy was happening for a reason. It doesn't need to be able to outfight a D6 or a D7, as long as it can swat the occasional Bird of Prey ambush, we can ensure shipping remains uninterrupted. And those things are typically glass cannons.

You can't afford to take the fleet off the front lines, but if your logistics vessels can ward off the occasional privateer strike without requiring the commitment of naval forces, that's a lot of grief you just saved.
 
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The form factor's not quite what I was expecting, but looking further into more official designs, I should have seen this coming. Either way, we move on to nacelles.

[ ] Cruise Nacelles [5.4 Cruise, 6 Max Cruise, 7 Max Warp] [Operating Range: 78ly]
[ ] Catamaran Nacelles [5.2 Cruise, 6.2 Max Cruise, 7.2 Max Warp] [Operating Range: 70ly]

With the cargo pod only slowing us down by 0.2, we've got some leeway on how we want to optimize the warp profile. The Cruise layout nets us a decent little upgrade to our range and standard cruise rating, while the Catamaran option gives us an all-around boost back up to our usual warp profile.

At this point, for me at least, it seems to be a matter of personal preference as to configuration. This is a ship that isn't going to be out on the frontiers for very long and is likely going to be relatively close to planets or starbases that can be reached rather easily. However, the greater a range we can give it, the more it could be tasked to build things like deep space research or listening outposts.

I think I'd be willing to vote for both, and be just fine with whichever one wins out.
 
I think max cruise is the way to go over efficient cruise. We built a system of fuel stations for a reason and this baby should be able to skip from one to another at max cruise to get where it is going. It's not a 70ly range from earth. It's 70ly from the nearest refueling station.
 
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I'm thinking cruise configuration is the way to go. This is essentially a Star Fleet freighter, so it's probably going to spend a lot of time just... Moving shit around. Efficiency is the name of the game there, and that extra .2 cruise warp is about a 12% increase in speed. Not game changing, sure, but definitely nice to have.
 
Interesting fact, both configurations have a six month operational range, it's just the 17 extra light-years per year that get you the slightly longer range on the cruise nacelles.
 
I'm just pissed that we threw out the vertical nacelle,, again. Damn it we're never going to get around to a super cruise arrangement at this point.

And I think we really went outside the design bruef at this point. We need to be better at reading and remembering it. Right now we have an odd little bastard of a ship that I'm not sure has an actual place.
 
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...I regret my choice now, wasn't expecting the "small" pod to be so disproportionately large compared to the rest of the hull. Oh well, nothing that can be changed now.
 
I'm leaning towards catamaran just to give it a little more speed in an emergency situation, but honestly I'm not terribly fussed either way.

[X] Catamaran Nacelles [5.2 Cruise, 6.2 Max Cruise, 7.2 Max Warp] [Operating Range: 70ly]
 
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Somehow I wasn't expecting a small cargo pod to be so chunky lol.

Think I'm fine with either layout tbh.
 
I'm just pissed that we threw out the vertical nacelle,, again. Damn it we're never going to get around to a super cruise arrangement at this point.

And I think we really went outside the design bruef at this point. We need to be better at reading and remembering it. Right now we have an odd little bastard of a ship that I'm not sure has an actual place.
The design brief is for an engineering cruiser to do engineering things. We still have a massive hull to fill with engineering things.
 
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