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Jacen1 said:
My spell checker is weird; it claimed Calvary is a legitimate word, but Cavalry is not. I've added it in.

The key point, that EVERYONE has avoided addressing, was my question of if a well enough made mass produced blade would count as a Masterwork one, or if the blade needs to be made by hand to qualify for enchanting purposes? Can Dragon, with her incredibly precise manufacturing capability, produce enchantable items, or do you need a Master Craftsman using Traditional Tools?
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Probably not. For magic crafting, there's probably a mystical element involved with masterwork items. It's not just the quality of the object, but the process of making it that likely grants it the ability to be used for magic crafting. Otherwise any weapon or armor made by someone with enough skill would qualify as a Masterwork. Do you think a master smith picks out inferior materials just because they are making a batch of swords for the local guardsmen instead of a masterwork commissioned by the local ruler or an adventurer?

I had "avoided answering the question" because I had felt it didn't need to be addressed. The answer is self evident that it's not just the quality of materials that makes something a masterwork. I have a hand forged short sword that's crude as hell and a bunch of manufactured swords of various qualities. Guess which one I'd consider the masterwork. I also have five or six survival knives (including a K-bar), a couple mass produced cerimonial daggers that look very nice, and a couple traditionally forged daggers. Guess which ones I'd consider masterworks. I'll give you a hit, it's not any of the survival knives.
 
Jacen1 said:
My spell checker is weird; it claimed Calvary is a legitimate word, but Cavalry is not. I've added it in.

The key point, that EVERYONE has avoided addressing, was my question of if a well enough made mass produced blade would count as a Masterwork one, or if the blade needs to be made by hand to qualify for enchanting purposes? Can Dragon, with her incredibly precise manufacturing capability, produce enchantable items, or do you need a Master Craftsman using Traditional Tools?
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I would hazard a guess and say yes, Dragon could, using superior, precision manufacturing techniques, higher standards of quality control, and superior materials. Again, and this would be me, they would probably take longer to make (given that a masterwork item has 2 components - the actual item and the masterwork component) and therefore cost more (more time and more expensive materials - there are certain processes in metalworking that take a certain amount of time and temperature to perform and they cannot be rushed).

(notes reply above)
Different opinions, your mileage may vary. :)
 
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FaerieKnight79 said:
I had "avoided answering the question" because I had felt it didn't need to be addressed. The answer is self evident that it's not just the quality of materials that makes something a masterwork.
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Kryslin said:
I would hazard a guess and say yes, Dragon could, using superior, precision manufacturing techniques, higher standards of quality control, and superior materials.
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I mean, I'd argue that these statements aren't actually in opposition to each other? 'Handmade' for an AI could very well be "So I put together this fancy assembly line..."
 
Wyvern said:
I mean, I'd argue that these statements aren't actually in opposition to each other? 'Handmade' for an AI could very well be "So I put together this fancy assembly line..."
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For Dragon to make masterwork blades then sure she could probably set up an assembly line. But she'd probably be able to make only a very small number at a time because of the cost, attention to detail, and other factors.
 
FaerieKnight79 said:
For Dragon to make masterwork blades then sure she could probably set up an assembly line. But she'd probably be able to make only a very small number at a time because of the cost, attention to detail, and other factors.
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Small lot size sometimes has no bearing on how fast things can be made. I personally have spent the past month making about 16 parts per shift, because each of the damn things is that complex. But it's also rather simple, made of fairly cheap material (6061 aluminum is cheap nowadays compared to the timeframe referenced by D&D), and we're making a shitton of the damn things (4-figure order). On the other hand, I've had 10-20 piece orders that were literally dirt-simple: small square block with a single hole through it. as simple as you please, and takes a full 10 seconds in the machine.

On the other hand, the CNC machines I use might themselves count as Masterwork for the purposes of enchantment. ^^
 
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Peasant Railgun
  • Apocrypha
    • And now I'm reminded of that one stupid thing you could theoretically do to become the richest man alive. Wall of Iron, make Masterwork Daggers from the iron, sell and repeat.

    other stupid things include the glorious Peasant Railgun.

    ... :)

    Another Omake time!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    "Naurelin, can you please explain why you paid a thousand civilians to stand in a straight line?" Armsmaster asked and Taylor simply grinned like a madwoman.

    "You see, Armsmaster, I had this brilliant idea on how we could beat up bad guys while barely trying. So I got a bunch of Peasants- I mean Civillians to line up and ready an Action." Our great queen humbly replied.

    Armsmaster just stared in disbelief at the very impossibility of 'readying an action' as Naurelin continued to grin like a madwoman.

    "Right. Time for a test fire." Taylor spoke as she handed a smooth wooden cylinder to the first civilian in her line.

    "On the count of three, pass the wood to the next person and the last in line will throw it." She spoke to the civilian who simply nodded.

    "One."

    "Two."

    "Three!"

    As the words left her mouth the wood was passed practically instantly to every following Peasant- I mean Civilian at an impossible speed until it reached the last and was thrown at the target dummy.

    The wood cylinder completely pierced the dummy without effort leaving Taylor jumping around like a madwoman at her successful test.

    Armsmaster was gaping at the display and was failing to comprehend the logic behind what the Ward did.

    "I shall call it, The Peasant Railgun!" Taylor exclaimed loudly as she had another wood piece loaded up.

    'This will be a nightmare to explain to the Director.' Armsmaster thought you himself as he left the Ward to her insane antics.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Old Memes never die, they simply fall out of style and await resurrection.
     
  • Apocrypha
    • To all those saying it is wasteful to make the Arrowhead of Total Destruction think about this. The end product costs a bit more than 22,500GP (cost of cheapest bag of holding plus cost of portable hole) and is a guaranteed insta-kill due to annihilation. This is chump change for a level 20 adventurer and serves as a good way of destroying otherwise incredibly difficult foes. It isn't intended to be a common component of their arsenal but more akin to a single shot RPG to fuck that one thing in particular. It also is nowhere near the most lethal D&D 3.5 era creations. The Locate City Bomb and the Wonder Might Bomb take that title. the first of which just requires the right feat combination and the second of which makes the AoTD seem cheap.
     
    gdesign95 said:
    To all those saying it is wasteful to make the Arrowhead of Total Destruction think about this. The end product costs a bit more than 22,500GP (cost of cheapest bag of holding plus cost of portable hole) and is a guaranteed insta-kill due to annihilation. This is chump change for a level 20 adventurer and serves as a good way of destroying otherwise incredibly difficult foes. It isn't intended to be a common component of their arsenal but more akin to a single shot RPG to fuck that one thing in particular. It also is nowhere near the most lethal D&D 3.5 era creations. The Locate City Bomb and the Wonder Might Bomb take that title. the first of which just requires the right feat combination and the second of which makes the AoTD seem cheap.
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    except it doesn't annihilate anything, it throws a 10 ft sphere of space(and anything with in that range) into the Astral plane, and the Astral plane does not annihilate things and just about anything at or around lvl20 can arrange(or do it themselves) a Plane shift back to reality
     
    sainen said:
    except it doesn't annihilate anything, it throws a 10 ft sphere of space(and anything with in that range) into the Astral plane, and the Astral plane does not annihilate things and just about anything at or around lvl20 can arrange(or do it themselves) a Plane shift back to reality
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    That's why a Mini-Hakkero is more efficient.

    It fits in the palm of your hand.

    It's simply a focus for the user's magic.

    And it shoots lasers that completely annihilate the target.
     
    sdwood said:
    The first was easy to find, do you have a link to the second?
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    Couldn't find the link, but it involved the Rod of Lordly Might a wondrous item (made using the item creation rules) designed to activate and dump all charges from rods inserted into it into said rod and 100 Rods of Wonder. End result is the Rod of Lordly Might letting off a Magi-nuclear blast from its absorption ability.
    sainen said:
    except it doesn't annihilate anything, it throws a 10 ft sphere of space(and anything with in that range) into the Astral plane, and the Astral plane does not annihilate things and just about anything at or around lvl20 can arrange(or do it themselves) a Plane shift back to reality
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    Looked it up again since it has been a while since I last looked at this (found original article). You are right my bad. Still incredibly useful for breaking through a heavily enchanted wall since it would cut a section out of it. I could have sworn that it ripped apart anything sent through it, but no that is what happens to the contents of a bag of holding when placed in a portable hole. so if you could find a way to make a bag of holding capture the target then get sent into a portable hole that would give the result I thought was the case.
     
    Leechblade said:
    I would never waste a bag of holding in the creation of a single use weapon.
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    FaerieKnight79 said:
    That is a waste of two useful magic items.
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    It's a perfectly viable strategic strike weapon if you are running a campaign where your party are the equivalent of Navy Seals handling special missions for your kingdom. This was at the midpoint of our waterborne team campaign, and we were given two of a similar design from the King's special armoury to use on a raid to disable\destroy an attack submersible created and crewed by the aquatic Drow who were the GM's long-term foes for our campaign. It was built around the idea of Verne's Nautilus, which was effectively the first ironclad ship in the world, so mostly impervious to standard spells we could bring to bear at the time.

    (Ah, good times....)
     
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    gdesign95 said:
    Couldn't find the link, but it involved the Rod of Lordly Might a wondrous item (made using the item creation rules) designed to activate and dump all charges from rods inserted into it into said rod and 100 Rods of Wonder. End result is the Rod of Lordly Might letting off a Magi-nuclear blast from its absorption ability.
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    Er, what? The Rod of Lordly Might doesn't have an absorption ability.
     
    gdesign95 said:
    Couldn't find the link, but it involved the Rod of Lordly Might a wondrous item (made using the item creation rules) designed to activate and dump all charges from rods inserted into it into said rod and 100 Rods of Wonder. End result is the Rod of Lordly Might letting off a Magi-nuclear blast from its absorption ability.
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    I think you might be wrong about what the Rod of Lordly Might does. In 5e it has different powers, but still not what you're describing.
     
    Kryslin said:
    Re: Tinker rating - If/When Naurelin starts crafting things, yes, she'd get a Tinker rating, albeit a low one. Granted, her material requirements are pretty stringent; Most armor and weapons require a masterwork item as a base, and the higher the enhancement, the more exotic the materials become. Adamant and Mithril she'd have to go looking for in the Outlands.

    Say, for a Brooch of Adaptation, she'd need a masterwork piece of jewelry, presumably out of Platinum, Alter Self, materials, time, and ranks in Craft : Wondrous Item.
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    I've been playing D&D in various forms for... God, 46 years. I love crafting items and have run many characters who make items. Here's a quote from the Pathfinder Core Rulebook:

    "Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. ...     The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory."

    So, Brooch of Adaptation? CL 7 so DC 12. No platinum medallion? DC 17. No Alter Self spell? DC 22. Magic items can be made by extremely talented     non-magical crafters.
     
    Reyder Axeman said:
    I've been playing D&D in various forms for... God, 46 years. I love crafting items and have run many characters who make items. Here's a quote from the Pathfinder Core Rulebook:

    "Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. ...     The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory."

    So, Brooch of Adaptation? CL 7 so DC 12. No platinum medallion? DC 17. No Alter Self spell? DC 22. Magic items can be made by extremely talented     non-magical crafters.
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    I have to pull out my 3.5 books to check, but I don't think 3.5 allows the bypassing of requirements by increasing the craft DC. Nor does it, I think, allow non-mages to craft. The Master Craftsman feat is I believe exclusive to Pathfinder.
     
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