Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)

[Somebodynobody10]

I don't remember the global map at this point. Is Alterac fully surrounded by the Alliance at this moment, or did we perhaps have a path towards the Dark Horde remnants down south or really any other enemy in any direction?

Because if I had my way, I would just throw - tactically, not in a suicidal fashion - the fel orcs into Honorable Battle and cull them down to manageable numbers in a way that orcs can stomach.

 

[Thanatosra]

I don't remember the global map at this point. Is Alterac fully surrounded by the Alliance at this moment, or did we perhaps have a path towards the Dark Horde remnants down south or really any other enemy in any direction?

Because if I had my way, I would just throw - tactically, not in a suicidal fashion - the fel orcs into Honorable Battle and cull them down to manageable numbers in a way that orcs can stomach.

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we are no where near the dark horde- thats all the way on the other side of the continent Seven Kingdoms

 

[rx915]

I don't remember the global map at this point. Is Alterac fully surrounded by the Alliance at this moment, or did we perhaps have a path towards the Dark Horde remnants down south or really any other enemy in any direction?

Because if I had my way, I would just throw - tactically, not in a suicidal fashion - the fel orcs into Honorable Battle and cull them down to manageable numbers in a way that orcs can stomach.

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Kinda if this was before WC3 you could say that. I'm not so sure now.

I think that in many cases, this is another example of Thrall's inability to make a firm decision. He's caught in between wanting to control warlocks and use their formidable abilities, with the great utility Feldad brings for example, and his hatred of them due to their representation of the betrayal of his people. Someone like Feldad, who goes about pretty openly talking about the Fel, and who so famously won against Forneus while Thrall was unable to do anything, is an embarrassment for him.

On Grok taking on the Demonsword Clan, this is partly tied up with the military implications. Grok is already dangerous to Thrall, having thousands more warlike orcs is even more dangerous. The Fel-orcs themselves, or the Demonsword's reliance on Fel generally, is indeed gravely concerning though, and will continue to be so over time. Firstly, because if they can be controlled it demonstrates that they're pretty cool actually which really impact's Thrall's policies saying the Fel is bad. If they can't be controlled the implication is that Grok might be just as bad as the worst of his clan. There are other implciations, but those are perhaps the main ones.

On Grok's personal stance, this is an extremely complicated matter. Grok personally doesn't have anything against the Fel. Feldad has been very careful to not expose him to the bad sides of the Fel, and has carefully controlled who meets him, eg he sent Sesk and Ishi to demonstrate that Sesk is actually a controlled guy even when he has Fel stuff. Similarly, though Feldad demonstrates signs of physical corruption which might be unsightly, that's not really a big deal. In terms of Grok's personal stance, he's refused the Fel before, but he personally isn't necessarily opposed to it, he just personally hasn't had it. Grok has a general dissaproval of the Fel because of his personal beliefs, but that doesn't necessarily extend into a political stance. In terms of his official stance, Grok would be presently unable to denounce his father, due to the extreme responsibilities of leadership and personal attitudes Grok has toward Feldad, and he can't therefore lose 'face' by criticing the Fel. He takes a stance like with teh warlocks, by saying that he personally doesn't subscribe to his father's ideals, but still respects his father as clan chief, and obviously a parent.

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Since we're playing Grok the fel will have to be controlled what with relying on all kinds of magic and having some warlocks on the warband.

I think that in many cases, this is another example of Thrall's inability to make a firm decision. He's caught in between wanting to control warlocks and use their formidable abilities, with the great utility Feldad brings for example, and his hatred of them due to their representation of the betrayal of his people. Someone like Feldad, who goes about pretty openly talking about the Fel, and who so famously won against Forneus while Thrall was unable to do anything, is an embarrassment for him.

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He should git gud. Go on a shaman sabbatical or something one day if he wants to raise up his power level.

 

[Mr.Norm]

In my view Fel is like nuclear energy, potentially destructive, potentially poisonous, and with many potential misuses. But when harnessed and controlled properly it can be absurdly powerful and greatly improve society as a whole.

To harness it and reduce it's danger perhaps we could ask for access to arcane users to help try to find control methods for the fel and for fel influences. Apparently demon hunters use arcane runes to control their power. Perhaps we could develop some arcane device or potion to do something similar, either by shielding the mind entirely, or applying a counter influence such as increasing one's empathy.

 

[w34v3r]

Or even just isolating the direct demonic influences and studying fel magic under wild conditions. I don't expect it to suddenly be nice, but generally speaking removing omnicidal demons from the equation tends to at least calm things down.

 

[FractiousDay]

To harness it and reduce it's danger perhaps we could ask for access to arcane users to help try to find control methods for the fel and for fel influences. Apparently demon hunters use arcane runes to control their power. Perhaps we could develop some arcane device or potion to do something similar, either by shielding the mind entirely, or applying a counter influence such as increasing one's empathy.

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It's technically possible, but this would be an extremely complex magic. Illidan could do it because he was a very capable individual from a very capable culture which used arcane magic extensively, and he's probably one of the most knowledable people on the use of the Fel in either Azeroth or Draenor. He has the benefits of a scholastic education when compared with Gul'dan who was a random orc who got kicked out of his tribe. The orcs have only just started to use arcane magic, you've got basically 1 person who is trying it out in the Burning Blade, whereas Illidan spent a considerable time working as a warmage and then leading them during a massive war.

I don't expect it to suddenly be nice, but generally speaking removing omnicidal demons from the equation tends to at least calm things down.

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I'm not sure if this is actually possible, but it may indeed be. However, I'm also not sure that would be something Grok would think of in character, given the Fel isn't fully understood by the Orcs.

 

[Thanatosra]

I cant believe I forgot for the problems with arcane addiction the blood elves and night elves who relied on it became Wretched once they no longer had a source for it (not the same as fel courrption since the fel courrpted from day 1 and cant recall if it is something to do with their race since they evolved from trolls with magic)

 

[MrRobot]

Maybe on a good roll to purify an fell source Gork can stumble on purified fell, between the light and the conection with the spirit of life it becomes purges of specifically it's impurities and deamon influence, it is still likely to be extremely dangerous source of magic having to beaten into shape like an extremely unhurly spirit since it still becomes hard to control yourself under it's influence, but now is not screaming at you to behave like a demon.

 

[rx915]

WoW had a dreadlord that converted to the light. Quite intriguing.

If there was someone that could provide knowledge it would be a dreadlord particularly from Varimathras but this hinges on whether what he says can be trusted but if convinced he might humor Grok just to see what the mortals that fascinated Mannoroth so can do with more knowledge to deal with the fel.

 

[Thanatosra]

WoW had a dreadlord that converted to the light. Quite intriguing.

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yes a dreadlord (even without shadowlands showing they were spies spying on both sides) that was sus but well the dreadlords were sus in general after all they were the ones to convince sargaras about the void

 

[rx915]

yes a dreadlord (even without shadowlands showing they were spies spying on both sides) that was sus but well the dreadlords were sus in general after all they were the ones to convince sargaras about the void

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Indeed. Really makes the ones we know on Azeroth hard to figure out when they'll switch sides when one of them is also working with black dragons maybe without their knowledge.

 

[Redgamer026]

the orcs really are primitive. I feel like men and elves were on their level maybe thousands of years ago but are so much more advanced in every way. Really if the orcs didn't have their impressive constitutions they would have been wiped out by the other races long ago. I hope from can actually adapt the orcs to be modern instead of remaining to their tribal-hordish ways.

 

[Thanatosra]

the orcs really are primitive. I feel like men and elves were on their level maybe thousands of years ago but are so much more advanced in every way. Really if the orcs didn't have their impressive constitutions they would have been wiped out by the other races long ago. I hope from can actually adapt the orcs to be modern instead of remaining to their tribal-hordish ways.

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the orcs greatest strengths and weakness has always been their disunity after all the orcs are the smallest race on dreanor (not counting the drenai cause they came later) they are not as strong as the ogres who used them as slaves, they don't have the numbers or the abilty to fly like the arroka once had and were the strongest magic users (and made clans like the bleeding hollow hide in fear) the gronn ruled over the ogres, the drenai once they arrived were the most advanced its going to take ages to make the orcs change from stuff that was required for their survival but now that is a weakness cause azeroth is not as much of a hellscape as dreanor was

 

[FractiousDay]

the orcs really are primitive. I feel like men and elves were on their level maybe thousands of years ago but are so much more advanced in every way. Really if the orcs didn't have their impressive constitutions they would have been wiped out by the other races long ago. I hope from can actually adapt the orcs to be modern instead of remaining to their tribal-hordish ways.

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They really do have a pretty recent history. You have the Collosals battles, the Apexis, the Gorian Empire, and then even 200 years before the Dark Portal, the Orcs still are basically in hiding from the bigger more powerful empires. They come out to unify and destroy the Gorian Empire after the ogres annoy the elements, but you still have multiple centres of Ogre power on Draenor, so the Orcs spend a lot of their time underground, which is why teh Blackrock are relatively more advanced.

I imagine that in the last 200 or so years, the Orcs exploded in population, which is perhaps why you see tribes similar to each other. Maybe the Frostwolves, Whiteclaw and Thunderlords used to be one big clan, then separated in that time for example.

But still it's extremely recent history. THe Horde similarly as a social instituion is also extremely recent, as are various technologies they've developed.

The problem is they spent ages living on a death world, so it's sort of like the Klingons, who canonically were colonised but then took the tech of their coloniser and went from tribal life to stellar civilisation.

 

[MrRobot]

Basically, Gork is one that pushing for technological reforms at least on the military side with the way he fights with his warband.
From armour to shields, to logistics and military formation, in a way he is the anti doomhammer as a military leader.
As much he have an traditional background, the traditions and rituals are much more a lenz to view the world than a rule book, wich makes him remarkably progressive.
Assume we keep pushing for that i can see the immediate trickle dow effects being a push for jobs that directly impact the capacity for a country to support an army, like blacksmithing, armor smithing, Military architecture and even agriculture/ Animal hearding to be viewed beneath an warrior, an orc would still be expected to fight but something that helps your comunity is also viewed as honourable.

I honestly wont see much of cultural blossoming trough, with cultural spaces being largely reserved to traditional/magical stuff and arenas.

 

[Thanatosra]

Assume we keep pushing for that i can see the immediate trickle dow effects being a push for jobs that directly impact the capacity for a country to support an army, like blacksmithing, armor smithing, Military architecture and even agriculture/ Animal hearding to be viewed beneath an warrior, an orc would still be expected to fight but something that helps your comunity is also viewed as honourable.

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those already are thats why theirs peons who do the non warrior stuff after all grok himself mentions that he was glad the humans didn't ask for his warriors help in building their defences cause thats peon work.

 

[MrRobot]

those already are thats why theirs peons who do the non warrior stuff after all grok himself mentions that he was glad the humans didn't ask for his warriors help in building their defences cause thats peon work.

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The way i read that is that he knew thing would get ugly if they did, not really that he would particularly care for never doing peon work.
Even back then when he rather gone to help the trolls military the building walls option was not looked down because it was peon work but rather because he does not know how build a wall.
It would kinda be hipocritical of him on belive peons should be a thing since this is most a position reserved to phisically weak orks, like him.

 

[Thanatosra]

The way i read that is that he knew thing would get ugly if they did, not really that he would particularly care for never doing peon work.
Even back then when he rather gone to help the trolls military the building walls option was not looked down because it was peon work but rather because he does not know how build a wall.
It would kinda be hipocritical of him on belive peons should be a thing since this is most a position reserved to phisically weak orks, like him.

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okay I can get how the way I said that would imply grok thinks that I should of put it as his warriors would see it that way

You are privately relieved it wasn't the other way around. You'd have had to refuse certainly, it wasn't seemly for warriors to labour in such a way and you know there would have been problems with the warband if you'd asked them to do so.

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okay so peons wasn't the exact word but it is somewhat strange for warriors to do labour type roles (and most likely any not fighting roles)

 

[FractiousDay]

Rolling for major events again

Death of significant figure
Major diplomatic change
Birth of a nation
Revolution
Mundane disaster
Magical disaster

Mundane
Tax increases
New item available
Minor diplomatic change
Forgot to add the others I had last time but whatever

North, south, east, west Kalimdor
North, south, east, west EK
South Seas, Kul Tiras, Zandalar, Kezan

Someone died in the north of the eastern kingdoms, Genn Greymane, Liam taking over, more open foreign policy
Birth of nation birth of a nation in zandalar, Zaldalari taking a more interventionist stance, likely under Zul because prophecies are changing and they need to get a foot in

new item in kul tiras, something from kalimdor?
tax increase in south EK, is just in

Additionally we need rolls for the events of previous chapters,

Horde situation more generally 33, not doing great, severely damaged due to minicata
Thrall's vs Feldad, Thrall's performance poor, poltiical will with Feldad more significant, Fel increasing etc, Thrall busy with shaman stuff so can't do much warchiefing, also frostwolves situation not great
Kul Tiran expansion given they were doing that last time, and vs goblins 86, Kul tirans still expanding out, doing well, Northwatch position strengthened, Goblin response 62, will continue to escalate, Kul Tirans might want some Mercs.
Nelves taking advantage of Horde's weakness due to Forneus? Kaldorei expanding, pushing back Warsong to liberate Ashenvale. Thrall orders retreat.
Centaur expansion given they were doing that last time, vs burning blade ops, 20, BB and Forsaken significant victories against centaur.
BB vs Quillboar, 76, Razorfen burned, Quillboar dead, Blademasters asendent.
Aliance internal diplo given changes, 13, quite poor tbh. Two largest nations lacking leaders at present, Dalaran still weak, no proper rulers for Kul Tiras or Gilneas either, Stromic position weak, Alterac just taken by Orcs.
Stormwind situation, 65, not actualyl that bad, some moderate changes under Queen Onyxia
Gilneas situation re Genn's death, and also being in the middle of worgen stuff going on, 12 distinctly not good, barely holding Gilneas city, Worgen rampant through the kingdom, armies under great pressure, urgent need for support
bugs, 41, no bugs yet
Scourge, 90, Scourge action will be early. Considering their position given recent setbacks.
Kael vs draenei, 15, will not be early, may be delayed
Legion plans, 8, are actually fine with the present situation, will not be early
Twilights, 62, moderate advancement, but won't be especially early.

FractiousDay threw 2 6-faced dice. Reason: maj Total: 4

FractiousDay threw 2 3-faced dice. Reason: min Total: 3

FractiousDay threw 4 3-faced dice. Reason: location Total: 10

FractiousDay threw 4 4-faced dice. Reason: location 2 Total: 8

FractiousDay threw 12 100-faced dice. Reason: D100s Total: 596

FractiousDay threw 3 100-faced dice. Reason: D100s2 Total: 85

 

[Thanatosra]

Revolution

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oh look stormwind is being stormwind someone should really do something about the totally not dragon lady/s

 

[Taijutsu_]

@FractiousDay
What would happen if a fell orc started using the Light like Grok does? They're not -technically- opposed magics, and most fell magic doping is the initial physical change and reinforcement. Like, maybe the blademaster we just fought gets super impressed at Grok's ultimate and engages him in philosophical discussion and becomes his disciple or something.

Along those lines, what would happen if a fell orc warlock started using the light? I imagine it'd be a lot worse as they channel the energies regularly and are more likely to actually be affiliated with the Burning Legion.

 

[MrRobot]

Well one thing that you must consider is while the fel and light are not opposite by nature, the demonic influence on the fel is as close of opposite you can get, it would probably would be painful for the fel orc if the light would not just expel the fel from him.
But lets say is a super badass blademaster that can willpower trough it and the demon par is expelled? It would probably make something powerful, maybe this is scorn's goal.

 

[Thanatosra]

genns dead oh no what a sham- anyway moving on so zandalar are finally entering the world and not just gonna wait till deathwing forces them out, feldad and thrall are doing something
oh and all hail queen onyxia I guess

 

[FractiousDay]

oh look stormwind is being stormwind someone should really do something about the totally not dragon lady/s

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So to simulate developments in the world more broadly, it's a roll between different options, including a revolution and a magical disaster for example

What would happen if a fell orc started using the Light like Grok does? They're not -technically- opposed magics, and most fell magic doping is the initial physical change and reinforcement. Like, maybe the blademaster we just fought gets super impressed at Grok's ultimate and engages him in philosophical discussion and becomes his disciple or something.

Along those lines, what would happen if a fell orc warlock started using the light? I imagine it'd be a lot worse as they channel the energies regularly and are more likely to actually be affiliated with the Burning Legion.

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Well one thing that you must consider is while the fel and light are not opposite by nature, the demonic influence on the fel is as close of opposite you can get, it would probably would be painful for the fel orc if the light would not just expel the fel from him.

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Indeed Fel magic and the Light are not strictly speaking opposed, but there are various problems. Firstly, I don't generally think the Orcs are very good doing Light stuff, their culture doesn't necessarily prevent altruism, but it does heavily discourage it at the moment. Grok in this respect is unusually outward looking.

If, and that's 'if', an individual heavily affected by the Fel managed to use the Light, at the very least it would probably be quite painful. In the Rejection of the Gift cinematic it looks like Illidan is being converted, not that he's using both traditions at the same time. I also think a Fel Orc warlock would be trained in sacrificial magics and just wouldn't be mentally suitable to use the Light, or perhaps might be somehow spiritually tainted.

Similarly, we might look at other corruption, like Arcane. High end users of Arcane magic become unimaginative and overly logical etc. They don't do well thinking in other methods, they want to categorise and assess everything and would similarly be mentally unable to do Light stuff.

We do have examples of Forsaken priests who use the Light while being creatures at least partially animated by shadow magic. Those are opposing forces, and such priests are rare because it's agonising to channel one force when being animated by another. The Forsaken though are also affected by the Plague, so it's possible if they were only shadow magic creatures they just wouldn't be able to use the Light.

We also have tha tLight Dreadlord guy, but he's a one off I don't think we can draw any significant conclusions from his prescence.

 

[Thanatosra]

Illidan is being converted,

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well the light forcing someone to join them might hurt

We also have tha tLight Dreadlord guy, but he's a one off I don't think we can draw any significant conclusions from his prescence.

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pretty sure his just their to spy on them since according to shadowlands (so feel free to toss this away) the light love being proven right. without shadowlands its probably that they forced him to join like they tried to force illidan to join them, either that or lothraxion doesn't see the burning legion as the way to beat the void like the rest of his kind might do (since I believe it was the dreadlords who told sargaros about the void)