Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Fear the power of Orcish battle yodelling!
As for the Bagpipes we must cooperate with the Gnomes they know the secrets long lost to time of those accursed weapons of mass destruction
Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)
- Thread starter FractiousDay
- Start date
- Fantasy
As for the Bagpipes we must cooperate with the Gnomes they know the secrets long lost to time of those accursed weapons of mass destruction
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
mmm
Few things.
1. I am curious as to what (if anything) the effects of having a connection to the element of life will have on a lot of magical traditions. I can only theorise ATM, but I'd imagine everyone has a connection, even if its mostly shamen who cultivate theirs.
2. Varak: This has been concerning me for a while, but we rarely talk to him and I feel like we know nothing about him. He's our bloodbrother yes, but do we even know who is he is in regards to the warsong? What's more, what are his ambitions? We had that talk with him ages ago, and he's certainly got a more traditionally orcy view of the world than Grok does, but he's at least willing to try new things out like bombs and a crossbow and he's far from randomly attacking people in search of nebulous honour and glory. Even assuming he's not high up in the warsong by birth, due to skill and action he's kinda the orcish ideal no? I think we're missing something. (What I'm trying to get at is that he seems to lack ambition. Its not necessarily a bad thing on its own, contentment with life is a rare thing, but I do think we need to talk to him about a lot of things really.)
3. Feldad shenanigans. Assuming we're going to meet the Crusaders either this turn or the next we need to get answers out of them ASAP. Hopefully its nothing too nefarious, but whatever it is I want to get on top of it.
Few things.
1. I am curious as to what (if anything) the effects of having a connection to the element of life will have on a lot of magical traditions. I can only theorise ATM, but I'd imagine everyone has a connection, even if its mostly shamen who cultivate theirs.
2. Varak: This has been concerning me for a while, but we rarely talk to him and I feel like we know nothing about him. He's our bloodbrother yes, but do we even know who is he is in regards to the warsong? What's more, what are his ambitions? We had that talk with him ages ago, and he's certainly got a more traditionally orcy view of the world than Grok does, but he's at least willing to try new things out like bombs and a crossbow and he's far from randomly attacking people in search of nebulous honour and glory. Even assuming he's not high up in the warsong by birth, due to skill and action he's kinda the orcish ideal no? I think we're missing something. (What I'm trying to get at is that he seems to lack ambition. Its not necessarily a bad thing on its own, contentment with life is a rare thing, but I do think we need to talk to him about a lot of things really.)
3. Feldad shenanigans. Assuming we're going to meet the Crusaders either this turn or the next we need to get answers out of them ASAP. Hopefully its nothing too nefarious, but whatever it is I want to get on top of it.
Last edited:
Lordaeron Turn 2 Results
- Location
- United Kingdom
Unchecked, will tidy a bit tomorrow.
Lordaeron Turn 2 Results
Yet again you find a month passing without appreciable change in the weather. It's frankly rather depressing, there's a constant darkness about you and though the work to improve Cold Hearth Manor continues, it still lives up to its name and you've also sensed somewhat of a decline in your warband's morale. It's not significant, but while previously they used to sing in the evenings now you rarely hear such merriment.
It's not an immediate issue, but the weeks of essentially garrison duty is starting to grate on a few of your people and you decide to devote some more time to them in the next few weeks. Firstly you take a survey of those new clan members your father's sent along with you.
Survey = 1
The survey goes excellently, and in fact is far easier than you'd expected! It seems that the group is entirely as you anticipated them to be, clanless Orcs from Orgrimmar who'd fallen out of the usual structures of society for various reasons and now sought a place in a clan with growing prestige. You welcome them and make plans to integrate them further. You're slightly disappointed that there don't seem to be anyone of particular skill or significance among them, but you shrug and move on.
Warband vs Encounters, 81 vs 39
You take your warband on several patrols, firstly around the Manor itself, encountering little of note. Then you march the route to the human village, this time meeting a wandering band of undead. Your warband charge through them with ease though, smashing the undead apart and moving onto the village.
"Hello again, young Orc!"
The jolly voice greets you as you approach the palisade and Mirador steps out of the doorway as you greet him in turn, expressing your wish to assist the village.
"Come speak with Solliden, he's the headman here." and Mirador slips back inside the gate. There's a brief but strained conversation on the other side that you can't fully hear but the paladin evidently gains you admittance and you make to follow him in.
Sorek steps forward and grasps your shoulder, "Is that wise?"
"Perhaps not." you reply, "But I trust the paladin, he seems honourable."
"Aye, from what you said of him and from what I know of the stories." Sorek replies, "But the other humans…"
"I think they know well enough that they'll die if they try anything."
The Blackrock grumbles but releases you and you step through the portal.
A small village greets you, suspicious humans wielding an assortment of weapons, only a few of them in real uniforms, a blue symbol, the 'L' of Lordaeon on their surcoats.
You follow Mirador toward the centre of the village, uncaring of the humans who block your escape behind you. The paladin steps forward, speaking in a low chastisement, "This is hardly a welcome for an ally!" and once again though his voice remains calm it holds a sting.
"The Orc stands there because you invited him, my lord." Replies the one you assume to be Solliden, a stout, rugged looking farmer, arm bandaged, "But if not for that I'd not suffer him here, nor any of his kind. Many here lost loved ones in the Wars."
You had yet to reveal that you could understand the human language and you listened with great interest as Mirador advocates for you. The paladin speaks in parables and called upon his experience, appealing to the villagers on numerous points, but you conclude that the greatest argument was the character of Mirador himself and the villagers seem already inclined to obey him, despite him apparently having no particular authority over them, indeed, the holy warrior notes that he lost his lordship somehow.
That was interesting in and of itself. Was Mirador part of the Scarlet Crusade? Was the Scarlet Crusade in fact the kingdom of Lordaeron? They either served or at least supported a royal of that kingdom after all… Considering it you likened it to the Horde, Thrall had a nebulous but powerful control over the clans, yet his powers waxed and waned on a variety of factors.
You're not asked to speak, Mirador does that for you, but eventually it's agreed that your warband will protect the villagers while they expand their wall. Apparently previously they've not had the resources to do so previously as the work would be protracted, but Mirador suggests your warband protect the human villagers while they see to their work digging the trenches for an expanded palisade.
You are privately relieved it wasn't the other way around. You'd have had to refuse certainly, it wasn't seemly for warriors to labour in such a way and you know there would have been problems with the warband if you'd asked them to do so.
Mirador instructs you to return in a week once the villagers have marked out where they want the new wall and you decide to seek out further battle then. Mirador explains a system of attracting the undead to kill by ringing bells. You don't entirely understand why such a village would want to actively attract the undead but perhaps this is some strategy you're unfamilar with? You've never fought the undead after all.
Warband vs Encounters, 81 vs 48
Once again several hundred undead approach and you imagine that they might have been problematic for any worse armed band, but again you cut though them with general ease. On one occasion several of the smaller, thinner undead leap over the heads of the front line but Sorek and the aspirants are there and make short work of them, the shield wall remaining strong, the villagers protected over the course of a day while they dig. Mirador doesn't join in the fighting, observing instead from a post on one of the watchtowers.
You join him for a time and speak with him on a number of matters, after all, you're a stranger to the land and there's much you wish to know.
"What can you tell me of them?"
Mirador looks down from his post at the growing pile of twice-dead which your warriors are now assembling for a burning, he glances up at you, "What do you want to know?"
"What they are, how they were made, what magic animates them, what are their strengths, how can they be defeated?"
Mirador nods, stroking his rough beard, "That's more than I know." he remarks, "We never concerned ourselves with the specifics of how the undead came to be, only that we were able to defeat them, myself especially."
"How so?"
The paladin rests his hand on a large metal-bound tome, the mark of his order clear on its cover. "When the Silver Hand was founded each of the first knights were given one of these, an ancient libram. They're relics, hundreds of years old, but each represented what was thought to be a core trait of the new order. Turalyon, who bested your warchief Doomhammer, took the Libram of Protection that he might save others, Uther held justice, mine was retribution. During the wars I led my knights in battle and killed many of your folk, that was my purpose, not to bring justice after. I was, and perhaps remain, the Light's Vengeance."
You watch as humans take up the corpses of the undead, each respectful despite the revolting nature of the task.
"But I suppose I can give you some details." Mirador continues, "Shadow magic and alchemy form the impetus that drives the undead forward. For the base types, shadow magic is enough, memories of ancient horrors and evil is enough to seep into a body and make it rise, this is what Gul'dan and the necrolytes did, I remember it well. It wasn't the first time we went up against the undead, occasionally the trolls would use such constructs, but we'd never encountered them in such numbers. Their magic was crude, but after the Wars came the peace, and an uneasy one at that. Certain mages of the Kirin Tor went out to study Orcish magic and among them was Kel'Thuzad, one of the rulers of Dalaran."
You had heard this name before, mentioned on occasion by your father in discussions with other warlocks.
"Kel'Thuzad took a greater interest than he should have in necromancy and eventually he was expelled from his order. What he did in the years he wandered I don't know, but eventually he returned as the herald of the Scourge. As I understand it he'd managed to refine the necrolytes work, especially with the use of alchemy to stitch together all manner of abominations from the constituent parts of the Scourge's victims."
He begins to speak of the various sorts of undead, from the flesh-eating ghoul to the treacherous gheist. He describes each of them in reasonable detail, explaining how they might be destroyed and the best ways of combatting them, but as the paladin noted he isn't aware of the specifics which lead to their varied creation, why for example the teeth and nails seem to lengthen into fangs and claws on a ghoul.
"There are those among the Scarlet Crusade who've studied such matters, perhaps with greater zeal that I might think proper." Mirador remarks, "Seek them out and learn from them if you would."
As the day passes Solliden evidently trusts you enough to allow the warparty to help with the trees and their felling and you set the Orcs to pulling down trees and dragging them over to the trench that's been dug.
"This reminds me of Sen'jin." you remark to Vark who stands nearby, the broken haft of an axe in his hand which he's trying to conceal from the villagers, the half-ogre having joined in the felling rather too enthusiastically.
"How'd you mean?"
"Didn't we build a palisade to stop the centaurs?"
He thinks for a moment, "Yea." he nods with a grunt, "It would have been good to have Angrais here to dig a trench again. Weren't we trying to fight of Vok'fon though?"
You smirk, "Don't tell him that."
With the help of almost a hundred Orcs a wall almost double the height of the previous one goes up and a single large tower in one corner. Rather than a poorly defended farmstead you've made a moderately impressive fort in a now much expanded clearing.
"Speaking as a Blackrock, this is a poor construction." Sorek remarks as he looks at it. "The walls will rot away in a few years like this and it'll take far too much maintenance."
While the Blackrock clan weren't all builders, they had at least some experience in such issues and tended to be the architects of the Horde. Sorek remarks on various other weaknesses and a debate ensures between a few of you on the proper construction of field fortifications. The Horde in general doesn't prioritise such things but you wonder if you could learn something from it and resolve to investigate some points Vark makes about Ogre constructions in future. Certainly walls gave defenders a great advantage, but you supposed on Draenor everything was bigger than the Orcs and therefore able to break through whatever battlements were set up. You'd certainly like to see a wall that could stand up to a Gronn's assault.
"I'll speak to Mirador about it." you reply, "You don't build a fort in the middle of nowhere, and though we don't know the strategic significance of this place, it must be part of the warmaking of the humans."
Sorek nods, "Be wary when you speak to him." he says, "He's been walking about when you weren't around, watching us. I guess he's able to recognise our clans."
The Blackrock were without doubt the most famous and influential clan in the Horde and Sorek's group wore the broken mountain symbol proudly. Vark still wore his Warsong armour and each of the Burning Blade's warriors had been furnished with similar clothing by your father, and you didn't doubt Sorek was right.
"He's clearly not who he seems to be." you reply, "He knew Uther the Lightbringer, closely it seems."
As Orcs interested in martial affairs and history, having trained under blademasters, both you and Sorek, and to a lesser extent the other officers, are all aware of the famous names of the Alliance, the different rulers and generals. The Silver Hand were the best known and you'd heard more than one discussion of whether it might have been permissible to serve Turalyon in particular following his defeat of Doomhammer. Some more unorthodox elements of the Horde regarded the duel between the two on the slopes of Blackrock Mountain as an acceptable substitute for the Mak'gora. You wondered what might have happened if some paladin had challenged Doomhammer for leadership of the Horde, would your people have acquiesced?
You shake your head, returning to the conversation as Vark speaks, "Then what is such a warrior doing in this place?"
You've never been one for subterfuge and you pose the question directly to Mirador when you speak with him again.
"I follow the Light." he replies simply, green eyes shining and displaying a strength and power absent in the rest of his lined and weary face. "After the Third War I lived for a long time on my own. The Light showed me many things and I've journeyed to understand what I've seen better. A friend of mine advised me to make a pilgrimage to a sacred place known to our people for centuries and I found this village in need of aid. Their need was greater than mine so I stayed." he explains simply.
You absorbed the statement in silence, the paladin's words only strengthening your belief that paladins were simply shaman who served the Light. Yet…
"What is the Light?"
A warm smile comes to Mirador's face, "Divinity." he replies, "Protection, Compassion, Justice, and aye, Retribution." the final word comes with a pat to the book he carries. "I'm aware the Orcs worship the spirits of rocks and animals, no doubt you'll find my explanation as unusual as I do such practices, but the Light is more than these small things. Imagine that every spirit the Orcs have ever worshipped could be represented in a mountain. Some spirits are great and form the roots of the peak, some are small and are but gravel. All the mountains of Azeroth, Draenor and a thousand other worlds could not compare to the majesty of the Light. It is a vast ocean of grace, a prismatic sea beyond words and dreams, the source of all life, the before and after of all things."
And in your mind you imagine such a glory, something so great that even a planet was too small to perceive amidst swirling currents of Light.
"The Light isn't merely the connection between you and a particular Element, it is the spirit between all things, the joy and greatness of unity and triumph. When an Orcish shaman speak with an Elemental he might bargain, beg, make sacrifices and worship such a spirit. The Light doesn't demand such trinkets and adulation. We give worship because that which we worship is good. There's no element of transaction or contract, the Light supplements our strength because it inspires us to be divine, to join in that great stream of wonder that we're only permitted a small touch of in our lives. To strive to be divine for one of our kind does not mean we strive for godhood, we strive to be good in all actions."
Mirador pauses.
"We've never preached to Orcs." he remarks, a curious look on his face, his eyes almost hiding something. "When the camps were set up there were many things for the Silver Hand to attend to and we busied ourselves in other matters."
You guess that Mirador had walked among the internment camps your people had been confined to after the Wars as he describes their pathetic state with familiarity. Indeed, the man seemed unusually aware of the specifics of your people as if he'd lived among Orcs.
"However, I'm certainly not adverse to doing so. The Light embraces all."
You conclude the conversation with much to consider, but before you leave Mirador conveys Solliden's invitation to a feast in the future to celebrate the new safety of the village.
When you return to the manor you consider more personal matters.
You didn't fight in the battles by the Solliden farmstead, there'd been no reason to commit yourself and your warriors were doing just fine without you, but also there was a slight aversion toward combat. You'd been heavily wounded, bedridden for weeks and only recently recovered and you could occasionally feel Jubei'thos' blade piercing your belly. When the wind blows you feel that ghostly darkness about you. Your father's said the feeling will pass in time, and perhaps that's so, but it is surely time once again to take up the sword.
The movements come again as you run through the stances. The One Sky, the Ten Heavens, the Falling Sun. Your sword flows around your body. At first you're slightly hesitant as you work through the actions but you rapidly gain in dexterity till you're back to your old self, at least in body.
In spirit though whenever you run through the more advanced sequences of actions Akinos had begun to teach you, you feel again that you're fighting the undead blademaster, the death of your mentor and your own near pass to the afterlife. When you dream you find yourself absent comfort, trapped in darkness as you were before Kartha and Scorn dug you out of the wreckage of Dreadmist.
There's nothing physically wrong with you but you feel wounded. Could it be some curse? Some remnant of Jubei'thos' shadowblade? Or was it simply the weakness that had dogged you for years rearing its head in some new form?
No matter. You still have much to do and you turn to other issues.
You find yourself ready with your sword in your hand after your morning exercises and you wonder that you might examine the weapon properly. You moved slowly through more movements, this time more deliberately taking the weight of the blade as you swing it.
Firstly, it was far lighter and easier to handle than it should be. Once again the blade was sized for an Orc of normal size rather than your smaller form and to you it's an enormous sword, blade and haft almost seven feet long. Even so, you're able to cut with it without great difficulty and your dexterity is undiminished even with the great weight the blade should be but somehow isn't.
Unlike Baneshadow's weapon which was more like a traditional sword, the Fireblade bears greater resemblance to a halberd. It has no point, instead the blade terminating in a right angle. You'd be unable to thrust with such a weapon, and generally less able to parry attacks due to the size of the instrument, but when compared with Baneshadow's weapon this blade would strike far harder due to the longer hilt.
You'll have to adjust your fighting style somewhat, but it's a relatively easy affair and you start to go through more movements, deliberating to remove weaknesses in wielding this new blade like the lack of guard which might allow an enemy to slip their own weapon along to attack your hands.
You wondered why there was such differentiation between the different sword. Yours, Baneshadow's weapon, Akinos and even the swords you'd seen some of the other blademasters bear were all different. Some approached the form of the sword on your clan's banner, curving like a sabre, others were straight and harsh, still more were more like the swift glaives of the Night Elves. It could it be simply style? That seemed likely, it wasn't as if all the different blademasters were fighting particularly different enemies which would require different blade forms. Perhaps age had something to do with it? Baneshadow's sword had been forged less than a century ago, whereas the Fireblade in your hand was supposedly one of the very first constructed in that halcyon age when the Orcs first emerged from Grond's corpse.
Without doubt you hold the finest example of such a weapon you've yet to see. When compared with others yours is of greater quality and craftsmanship, far greater, the Blackrock ore that composes its form having a greater depth and lustre, the form and lines of the metal not just excellent but magnificent. Runes burn along its edge, runes you only vaguely recognise as the earliest scratchings of the Orcs, could these be Kalimag, the tongue of the Elementals of Draenor?
But equally as you examine it the runes seem dim and tired. Does it lack for something? There are rings in the sabre and through them are a few worn tassels but you know each one is supposed to represent something of note to the wielder. Sesk for example particular trophies from the vestments of Ogres whereas Ishi used knots of leather, no doubt each symbolic.
You don't experiment with the magics of fire you know to lie beneath the steel. It somehow doesn't feel right to do so, but you resolve to observe it carefully the next time you go into battle.
Looking on the runes again you run your hand over them, a slight warmth evident on the metal. The Fireblade has lain for decades without use, and decades more since it sat on Draenor. Has it forgotten its purpose? Perhaps you can remind it of its proper use.
After your exercises you turn to meditation again, winding down, stretching sore muscles and moving through the dance of the afterbattle that Akinos had taught you.
You think back on the interactions between your people and the humans, the suspicion turning to, well not trust certainly, but at least tolerance. You'd raised the issue with Mirador while you'd supervised the work, speaking with him regarding his experience with orcs.
"You must consider the position of many of these men." Mirador had said, "Solliden lost a son in the Second War, Tirasfel wasn't hit as hard as other kingdoms but no one among these people doesn't know someone that died. That is the reality of it. Your people came as conquerors, but not only that you brought with you the Fel, that alien evil that we knew nothing of before. When I had my lordship I'd often hear of Orcs who'd escaped the camps or were found wandering in the wilderness. I would do what I could to capture them and take them back but often I'd get to a village and find that the people there had slain the escapee out of hand, not only that but they'd be celebrating their deed."
"So what would your advice be?" you had asked.
"Rise." Mirador had answered, "Your help will be welcome enough and in time word of your party will spread. People will never forget what the Orcs did but in time good deeds may cover evil ones. Just don't expect welcome and freedom unless it's forced. Solliden knows he has little choice except to accept your help, and in turn he's willing to reward that, he's a decent sort, but no everyone will be. Make sure your warriors know that…"
You also considered Sorek's words and wariness, the Blackrock's assumption that the humans might attack you while you were inside the village… Was such suspicion predictable? As you considered it more you thought of the general sentiment rather than the specific situation. Orcs, broadly speaking, resolved situations through violence and battle. It was the only way to do things, your society was motivated by honour and glory and without means to acquire these Orcs would tend toward destruction. Humans too were motivated by honour but it seemed that their impulse was essentially constructive, they would band together, trust each other, invest in the success of others with the assumption that reciprocity would ensue.
You tried to imagine such a situation with your own people. What would happen if all the clans relied on one to do all the fighting? What if becoming a Warsong or a Blackrock was simply a matter of profession rather than family group?
Could that have been what Blackhand had tried to do? The first warchief had tried to segregate the clans along lines of specialisms, the Thunderlords the beasthunters, the Warsong the raiders, the Blackrock the infantry and so on. Would such specialisation require different tribes to work together? Would that in turn allow the Horde to work with other groups more easily? Would the necessity to rely on others for areas of strength and professionalism mean that the wider whole of the Horde would be strengthened? Or would it simply mean fragmentation? Would different clans accept the imposed weaknesses of such a system? You considered your father, certainly he had chosen to specialise the Burning Blade toward the warlocks not the Blademasters, yet he also maintained a small but reliable force of warriors to do his bidding.
But then on the other hand he did rely on other clans, especially the Shattered Hand and the Bleeding Hollow for their subterfuge and alchemy respectively. Your father had close connections in those clans that he drew on regularly, in turn providing magical assistance and power.
Such considerations went through your mind as you lay in your claimed bed, but eventually you found yourself falling into sleep.
The next morning the sentries called for you, saying that a rider in red had appeared and demanded speech with you.
-Survey
-Help the Village
-Patrol
-Recovery
-Socialise "Mirador" get to know him and ask for any advice he may have, either for an orc socialising with humans without violence, or as a warrior against the undead.
-The Fire Blade
-Meditate
-Help the Village
-Patrol
-Recovery
-Socialise "Mirador" get to know him and ask for any advice he may have, either for an orc socialising with humans without violence, or as a warrior against the undead.
-The Fire Blade
-Meditate
Lordaeron Turn 2 Results
Yet again you find a month passing without appreciable change in the weather. It's frankly rather depressing, there's a constant darkness about you and though the work to improve Cold Hearth Manor continues, it still lives up to its name and you've also sensed somewhat of a decline in your warband's morale. It's not significant, but while previously they used to sing in the evenings now you rarely hear such merriment.
It's not an immediate issue, but the weeks of essentially garrison duty is starting to grate on a few of your people and you decide to devote some more time to them in the next few weeks. Firstly you take a survey of those new clan members your father's sent along with you.
Survey = 1
The survey goes excellently, and in fact is far easier than you'd expected! It seems that the group is entirely as you anticipated them to be, clanless Orcs from Orgrimmar who'd fallen out of the usual structures of society for various reasons and now sought a place in a clan with growing prestige. You welcome them and make plans to integrate them further. You're slightly disappointed that there don't seem to be anyone of particular skill or significance among them, but you shrug and move on.
Warband vs Encounters, 81 vs 39
You take your warband on several patrols, firstly around the Manor itself, encountering little of note. Then you march the route to the human village, this time meeting a wandering band of undead. Your warband charge through them with ease though, smashing the undead apart and moving onto the village.
"Hello again, young Orc!"
The jolly voice greets you as you approach the palisade and Mirador steps out of the doorway as you greet him in turn, expressing your wish to assist the village.
"Come speak with Solliden, he's the headman here." and Mirador slips back inside the gate. There's a brief but strained conversation on the other side that you can't fully hear but the paladin evidently gains you admittance and you make to follow him in.
Sorek steps forward and grasps your shoulder, "Is that wise?"
"Perhaps not." you reply, "But I trust the paladin, he seems honourable."
"Aye, from what you said of him and from what I know of the stories." Sorek replies, "But the other humans…"
"I think they know well enough that they'll die if they try anything."
The Blackrock grumbles but releases you and you step through the portal.
A small village greets you, suspicious humans wielding an assortment of weapons, only a few of them in real uniforms, a blue symbol, the 'L' of Lordaeon on their surcoats.
You follow Mirador toward the centre of the village, uncaring of the humans who block your escape behind you. The paladin steps forward, speaking in a low chastisement, "This is hardly a welcome for an ally!" and once again though his voice remains calm it holds a sting.
"The Orc stands there because you invited him, my lord." Replies the one you assume to be Solliden, a stout, rugged looking farmer, arm bandaged, "But if not for that I'd not suffer him here, nor any of his kind. Many here lost loved ones in the Wars."
You had yet to reveal that you could understand the human language and you listened with great interest as Mirador advocates for you. The paladin speaks in parables and called upon his experience, appealing to the villagers on numerous points, but you conclude that the greatest argument was the character of Mirador himself and the villagers seem already inclined to obey him, despite him apparently having no particular authority over them, indeed, the holy warrior notes that he lost his lordship somehow.
That was interesting in and of itself. Was Mirador part of the Scarlet Crusade? Was the Scarlet Crusade in fact the kingdom of Lordaeron? They either served or at least supported a royal of that kingdom after all… Considering it you likened it to the Horde, Thrall had a nebulous but powerful control over the clans, yet his powers waxed and waned on a variety of factors.
You're not asked to speak, Mirador does that for you, but eventually it's agreed that your warband will protect the villagers while they expand their wall. Apparently previously they've not had the resources to do so previously as the work would be protracted, but Mirador suggests your warband protect the human villagers while they see to their work digging the trenches for an expanded palisade.
You are privately relieved it wasn't the other way around. You'd have had to refuse certainly, it wasn't seemly for warriors to labour in such a way and you know there would have been problems with the warband if you'd asked them to do so.
Mirador instructs you to return in a week once the villagers have marked out where they want the new wall and you decide to seek out further battle then. Mirador explains a system of attracting the undead to kill by ringing bells. You don't entirely understand why such a village would want to actively attract the undead but perhaps this is some strategy you're unfamilar with? You've never fought the undead after all.
Warband vs Encounters, 81 vs 48
Once again several hundred undead approach and you imagine that they might have been problematic for any worse armed band, but again you cut though them with general ease. On one occasion several of the smaller, thinner undead leap over the heads of the front line but Sorek and the aspirants are there and make short work of them, the shield wall remaining strong, the villagers protected over the course of a day while they dig. Mirador doesn't join in the fighting, observing instead from a post on one of the watchtowers.
You join him for a time and speak with him on a number of matters, after all, you're a stranger to the land and there's much you wish to know.
"What can you tell me of them?"
Mirador looks down from his post at the growing pile of twice-dead which your warriors are now assembling for a burning, he glances up at you, "What do you want to know?"
"What they are, how they were made, what magic animates them, what are their strengths, how can they be defeated?"
Mirador nods, stroking his rough beard, "That's more than I know." he remarks, "We never concerned ourselves with the specifics of how the undead came to be, only that we were able to defeat them, myself especially."
"How so?"
The paladin rests his hand on a large metal-bound tome, the mark of his order clear on its cover. "When the Silver Hand was founded each of the first knights were given one of these, an ancient libram. They're relics, hundreds of years old, but each represented what was thought to be a core trait of the new order. Turalyon, who bested your warchief Doomhammer, took the Libram of Protection that he might save others, Uther held justice, mine was retribution. During the wars I led my knights in battle and killed many of your folk, that was my purpose, not to bring justice after. I was, and perhaps remain, the Light's Vengeance."
You watch as humans take up the corpses of the undead, each respectful despite the revolting nature of the task.
"But I suppose I can give you some details." Mirador continues, "Shadow magic and alchemy form the impetus that drives the undead forward. For the base types, shadow magic is enough, memories of ancient horrors and evil is enough to seep into a body and make it rise, this is what Gul'dan and the necrolytes did, I remember it well. It wasn't the first time we went up against the undead, occasionally the trolls would use such constructs, but we'd never encountered them in such numbers. Their magic was crude, but after the Wars came the peace, and an uneasy one at that. Certain mages of the Kirin Tor went out to study Orcish magic and among them was Kel'Thuzad, one of the rulers of Dalaran."
You had heard this name before, mentioned on occasion by your father in discussions with other warlocks.
"Kel'Thuzad took a greater interest than he should have in necromancy and eventually he was expelled from his order. What he did in the years he wandered I don't know, but eventually he returned as the herald of the Scourge. As I understand it he'd managed to refine the necrolytes work, especially with the use of alchemy to stitch together all manner of abominations from the constituent parts of the Scourge's victims."
He begins to speak of the various sorts of undead, from the flesh-eating ghoul to the treacherous gheist. He describes each of them in reasonable detail, explaining how they might be destroyed and the best ways of combatting them, but as the paladin noted he isn't aware of the specifics which lead to their varied creation, why for example the teeth and nails seem to lengthen into fangs and claws on a ghoul.
"There are those among the Scarlet Crusade who've studied such matters, perhaps with greater zeal that I might think proper." Mirador remarks, "Seek them out and learn from them if you would."
As the day passes Solliden evidently trusts you enough to allow the warparty to help with the trees and their felling and you set the Orcs to pulling down trees and dragging them over to the trench that's been dug.
"This reminds me of Sen'jin." you remark to Vark who stands nearby, the broken haft of an axe in his hand which he's trying to conceal from the villagers, the half-ogre having joined in the felling rather too enthusiastically.
"How'd you mean?"
"Didn't we build a palisade to stop the centaurs?"
He thinks for a moment, "Yea." he nods with a grunt, "It would have been good to have Angrais here to dig a trench again. Weren't we trying to fight of Vok'fon though?"
You smirk, "Don't tell him that."
With the help of almost a hundred Orcs a wall almost double the height of the previous one goes up and a single large tower in one corner. Rather than a poorly defended farmstead you've made a moderately impressive fort in a now much expanded clearing.
"Speaking as a Blackrock, this is a poor construction." Sorek remarks as he looks at it. "The walls will rot away in a few years like this and it'll take far too much maintenance."
While the Blackrock clan weren't all builders, they had at least some experience in such issues and tended to be the architects of the Horde. Sorek remarks on various other weaknesses and a debate ensures between a few of you on the proper construction of field fortifications. The Horde in general doesn't prioritise such things but you wonder if you could learn something from it and resolve to investigate some points Vark makes about Ogre constructions in future. Certainly walls gave defenders a great advantage, but you supposed on Draenor everything was bigger than the Orcs and therefore able to break through whatever battlements were set up. You'd certainly like to see a wall that could stand up to a Gronn's assault.
"I'll speak to Mirador about it." you reply, "You don't build a fort in the middle of nowhere, and though we don't know the strategic significance of this place, it must be part of the warmaking of the humans."
Sorek nods, "Be wary when you speak to him." he says, "He's been walking about when you weren't around, watching us. I guess he's able to recognise our clans."
The Blackrock were without doubt the most famous and influential clan in the Horde and Sorek's group wore the broken mountain symbol proudly. Vark still wore his Warsong armour and each of the Burning Blade's warriors had been furnished with similar clothing by your father, and you didn't doubt Sorek was right.
"He's clearly not who he seems to be." you reply, "He knew Uther the Lightbringer, closely it seems."
As Orcs interested in martial affairs and history, having trained under blademasters, both you and Sorek, and to a lesser extent the other officers, are all aware of the famous names of the Alliance, the different rulers and generals. The Silver Hand were the best known and you'd heard more than one discussion of whether it might have been permissible to serve Turalyon in particular following his defeat of Doomhammer. Some more unorthodox elements of the Horde regarded the duel between the two on the slopes of Blackrock Mountain as an acceptable substitute for the Mak'gora. You wondered what might have happened if some paladin had challenged Doomhammer for leadership of the Horde, would your people have acquiesced?
You shake your head, returning to the conversation as Vark speaks, "Then what is such a warrior doing in this place?"
You've never been one for subterfuge and you pose the question directly to Mirador when you speak with him again.
"I follow the Light." he replies simply, green eyes shining and displaying a strength and power absent in the rest of his lined and weary face. "After the Third War I lived for a long time on my own. The Light showed me many things and I've journeyed to understand what I've seen better. A friend of mine advised me to make a pilgrimage to a sacred place known to our people for centuries and I found this village in need of aid. Their need was greater than mine so I stayed." he explains simply.
You absorbed the statement in silence, the paladin's words only strengthening your belief that paladins were simply shaman who served the Light. Yet…
"What is the Light?"
A warm smile comes to Mirador's face, "Divinity." he replies, "Protection, Compassion, Justice, and aye, Retribution." the final word comes with a pat to the book he carries. "I'm aware the Orcs worship the spirits of rocks and animals, no doubt you'll find my explanation as unusual as I do such practices, but the Light is more than these small things. Imagine that every spirit the Orcs have ever worshipped could be represented in a mountain. Some spirits are great and form the roots of the peak, some are small and are but gravel. All the mountains of Azeroth, Draenor and a thousand other worlds could not compare to the majesty of the Light. It is a vast ocean of grace, a prismatic sea beyond words and dreams, the source of all life, the before and after of all things."
And in your mind you imagine such a glory, something so great that even a planet was too small to perceive amidst swirling currents of Light.
"The Light isn't merely the connection between you and a particular Element, it is the spirit between all things, the joy and greatness of unity and triumph. When an Orcish shaman speak with an Elemental he might bargain, beg, make sacrifices and worship such a spirit. The Light doesn't demand such trinkets and adulation. We give worship because that which we worship is good. There's no element of transaction or contract, the Light supplements our strength because it inspires us to be divine, to join in that great stream of wonder that we're only permitted a small touch of in our lives. To strive to be divine for one of our kind does not mean we strive for godhood, we strive to be good in all actions."
Mirador pauses.
"We've never preached to Orcs." he remarks, a curious look on his face, his eyes almost hiding something. "When the camps were set up there were many things for the Silver Hand to attend to and we busied ourselves in other matters."
You guess that Mirador had walked among the internment camps your people had been confined to after the Wars as he describes their pathetic state with familiarity. Indeed, the man seemed unusually aware of the specifics of your people as if he'd lived among Orcs.
"However, I'm certainly not adverse to doing so. The Light embraces all."
You conclude the conversation with much to consider, but before you leave Mirador conveys Solliden's invitation to a feast in the future to celebrate the new safety of the village.
When you return to the manor you consider more personal matters.
You didn't fight in the battles by the Solliden farmstead, there'd been no reason to commit yourself and your warriors were doing just fine without you, but also there was a slight aversion toward combat. You'd been heavily wounded, bedridden for weeks and only recently recovered and you could occasionally feel Jubei'thos' blade piercing your belly. When the wind blows you feel that ghostly darkness about you. Your father's said the feeling will pass in time, and perhaps that's so, but it is surely time once again to take up the sword.
The movements come again as you run through the stances. The One Sky, the Ten Heavens, the Falling Sun. Your sword flows around your body. At first you're slightly hesitant as you work through the actions but you rapidly gain in dexterity till you're back to your old self, at least in body.
In spirit though whenever you run through the more advanced sequences of actions Akinos had begun to teach you, you feel again that you're fighting the undead blademaster, the death of your mentor and your own near pass to the afterlife. When you dream you find yourself absent comfort, trapped in darkness as you were before Kartha and Scorn dug you out of the wreckage of Dreadmist.
There's nothing physically wrong with you but you feel wounded. Could it be some curse? Some remnant of Jubei'thos' shadowblade? Or was it simply the weakness that had dogged you for years rearing its head in some new form?
No matter. You still have much to do and you turn to other issues.
You find yourself ready with your sword in your hand after your morning exercises and you wonder that you might examine the weapon properly. You moved slowly through more movements, this time more deliberately taking the weight of the blade as you swing it.
Firstly, it was far lighter and easier to handle than it should be. Once again the blade was sized for an Orc of normal size rather than your smaller form and to you it's an enormous sword, blade and haft almost seven feet long. Even so, you're able to cut with it without great difficulty and your dexterity is undiminished even with the great weight the blade should be but somehow isn't.
Unlike Baneshadow's weapon which was more like a traditional sword, the Fireblade bears greater resemblance to a halberd. It has no point, instead the blade terminating in a right angle. You'd be unable to thrust with such a weapon, and generally less able to parry attacks due to the size of the instrument, but when compared with Baneshadow's weapon this blade would strike far harder due to the longer hilt.
You'll have to adjust your fighting style somewhat, but it's a relatively easy affair and you start to go through more movements, deliberating to remove weaknesses in wielding this new blade like the lack of guard which might allow an enemy to slip their own weapon along to attack your hands.
You wondered why there was such differentiation between the different sword. Yours, Baneshadow's weapon, Akinos and even the swords you'd seen some of the other blademasters bear were all different. Some approached the form of the sword on your clan's banner, curving like a sabre, others were straight and harsh, still more were more like the swift glaives of the Night Elves. It could it be simply style? That seemed likely, it wasn't as if all the different blademasters were fighting particularly different enemies which would require different blade forms. Perhaps age had something to do with it? Baneshadow's sword had been forged less than a century ago, whereas the Fireblade in your hand was supposedly one of the very first constructed in that halcyon age when the Orcs first emerged from Grond's corpse.
Without doubt you hold the finest example of such a weapon you've yet to see. When compared with others yours is of greater quality and craftsmanship, far greater, the Blackrock ore that composes its form having a greater depth and lustre, the form and lines of the metal not just excellent but magnificent. Runes burn along its edge, runes you only vaguely recognise as the earliest scratchings of the Orcs, could these be Kalimag, the tongue of the Elementals of Draenor?
But equally as you examine it the runes seem dim and tired. Does it lack for something? There are rings in the sabre and through them are a few worn tassels but you know each one is supposed to represent something of note to the wielder. Sesk for example particular trophies from the vestments of Ogres whereas Ishi used knots of leather, no doubt each symbolic.
You don't experiment with the magics of fire you know to lie beneath the steel. It somehow doesn't feel right to do so, but you resolve to observe it carefully the next time you go into battle.
Looking on the runes again you run your hand over them, a slight warmth evident on the metal. The Fireblade has lain for decades without use, and decades more since it sat on Draenor. Has it forgotten its purpose? Perhaps you can remind it of its proper use.
After your exercises you turn to meditation again, winding down, stretching sore muscles and moving through the dance of the afterbattle that Akinos had taught you.
You think back on the interactions between your people and the humans, the suspicion turning to, well not trust certainly, but at least tolerance. You'd raised the issue with Mirador while you'd supervised the work, speaking with him regarding his experience with orcs.
"You must consider the position of many of these men." Mirador had said, "Solliden lost a son in the Second War, Tirasfel wasn't hit as hard as other kingdoms but no one among these people doesn't know someone that died. That is the reality of it. Your people came as conquerors, but not only that you brought with you the Fel, that alien evil that we knew nothing of before. When I had my lordship I'd often hear of Orcs who'd escaped the camps or were found wandering in the wilderness. I would do what I could to capture them and take them back but often I'd get to a village and find that the people there had slain the escapee out of hand, not only that but they'd be celebrating their deed."
"So what would your advice be?" you had asked.
"Rise." Mirador had answered, "Your help will be welcome enough and in time word of your party will spread. People will never forget what the Orcs did but in time good deeds may cover evil ones. Just don't expect welcome and freedom unless it's forced. Solliden knows he has little choice except to accept your help, and in turn he's willing to reward that, he's a decent sort, but no everyone will be. Make sure your warriors know that…"
You also considered Sorek's words and wariness, the Blackrock's assumption that the humans might attack you while you were inside the village… Was such suspicion predictable? As you considered it more you thought of the general sentiment rather than the specific situation. Orcs, broadly speaking, resolved situations through violence and battle. It was the only way to do things, your society was motivated by honour and glory and without means to acquire these Orcs would tend toward destruction. Humans too were motivated by honour but it seemed that their impulse was essentially constructive, they would band together, trust each other, invest in the success of others with the assumption that reciprocity would ensue.
You tried to imagine such a situation with your own people. What would happen if all the clans relied on one to do all the fighting? What if becoming a Warsong or a Blackrock was simply a matter of profession rather than family group?
Could that have been what Blackhand had tried to do? The first warchief had tried to segregate the clans along lines of specialisms, the Thunderlords the beasthunters, the Warsong the raiders, the Blackrock the infantry and so on. Would such specialisation require different tribes to work together? Would that in turn allow the Horde to work with other groups more easily? Would the necessity to rely on others for areas of strength and professionalism mean that the wider whole of the Horde would be strengthened? Or would it simply mean fragmentation? Would different clans accept the imposed weaknesses of such a system? You considered your father, certainly he had chosen to specialise the Burning Blade toward the warlocks not the Blademasters, yet he also maintained a small but reliable force of warriors to do his bidding.
But then on the other hand he did rely on other clans, especially the Shattered Hand and the Bleeding Hollow for their subterfuge and alchemy respectively. Your father had close connections in those clans that he drew on regularly, in turn providing magical assistance and power.
Such considerations went through your mind as you lay in your claimed bed, but eventually you found yourself falling into sleep.
The next morning the sentries called for you, saying that a rider in red had appeared and demanded speech with you.
- Location
- United Kingdom
Might add some minor ones tomorrow but you weren't really doing much. Maybe a +5 on persuasion etc
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
So have we fixed this before it became an issue? That seems to be the implication.
mmm...while I can see him being unfamiliar, as a hunter/commander I'd imagine he'd appreciate the ability to lure the enemy to him.
Geists?
mmm...do we know in what context? I'm not sure why they'd be muttering about him.
Another thing that's different, unless he means brutally torturing the undead.
And evidentally our people seem to respect them enough to do such labour?
mmm...this seems to be the for want of a nail that got Tirion to move from the Eastern Plague lands to here. But that raises the question of who the friend was and what the sacred place is.
The obvious answer is Alexandros Mograine, since they were both first-generation paladins, but seemingly all contact with him was cut off due to his exile. Etrigg would be weird, but they are friends. Though certainly the least likely. And of course there are other people who could count as his friends that we don't see him interacting with, Fairbanks potentially, though Alonsus Faol would probably be first amongst them.
As for where he was going, the only place that immediately jumps out in my mind is Tyr's Tomb under the lake in the whispering woods.
Canonically its guarded by a secret order of paladins, and is where both the name and the weapon the silver hand come from.
Map wise it also makes the most sense. Even though Fractious has rearranged things, as I don't know what the changes are exactly I'll go with my best guess, which puts the Solliden farmstead (also CALLED IT!) very close to the cliffs underneath the woods, making Tirion bumping into them make sense.
However, I'm not sure there's ever an implication that they knew it existed...though Thordrin did find the tomb so maybe?
Yeh, I think Grok's pretty good at concieving of it and even more I think that connection to life might make it easier for him.
Well that's good.
I mean yes it can be a curse, but nah man you're just depressed.
Though the specific point of the advanced sequences means he probably associates learning them with his loss against Jub, Akinos's death, his own near death and the loss of his shamanism. Essentially one of the big things he built his personal self worth around failed when he felt he needed it the most and he lost many of the things he valued most in life.
Well if nothing else we made them come to us. That also said a single rider?
mmm, depending on who this is, it'll make quite a big difference I think. Presumably its someone whom they feel confident would be able to escape a group of orcs, but isn't so important that losing them risks compromising the mission...also probably someone who is either skilled at diplo or has doubled down on "escaping" in some way either by punching their way out or more sneaky stuff.
Assuming even more that this will introduce a talkable character, Whitemane's the only one who ticks most boxes, but of course I could just be assuming and they sent some random mook.
With some contraptions or magic he can set up a portable lure.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Right proto plan time, obviously lots of things that might change it.
Warband actions 2 AP
-Train: Wanted to do this last turn, survey's done now so we know everyone and that should help.
-Trainx2: Potentially, however. Alternative idea
Personal 5 AP: Probably very social heavy turn and depends a lot on the crusader.
-Socialise the three stooges: This is the big one, but I want to know WTF Feldad asked them to so we're not blindsided by whatever it is and if we know what it is, we might be able to help if its not stupid. I also want to ask Kartha, to make sure she's not made contact with Varimathras or something and is being ordered to sabotage relations, but I'm not sure I can swing that in one action.
-Socialise Mirador: This one's weird because I have three potential topics
1. Offer to guard the farmstead while he goes to complete his pilgrimage: This is the hubristic one as they don't trust us and a lot of our success has seemingly come from him smoothing things over, but we've made a good impression if nothing else, and it gives him a chance to do his thing, which is probably good.
2. Ask him to teach us of the light: Essentially bouncing off this
3. Finally and weirdest bounces off of this
See meditation is all well and good, but again I still don't think Grok is making much in the way of progress in his current thought process, how the clans are organised and different varietals of shamanism doesn't change the problem. I think he needs an outside authority figure who can breach through to talk to him on that, and Tirion's probably our best bet on that front as he is patient, comparatively non judgement, wise and not overly influenced by the Horde's nonsense.
-Socialise the crusader/visit the crusade: get that done.
-Train tactics: Possible, synches up well potentially with training and experimenting with new tactics.
-Final action, unsure. I'm inclined towards another social action or meditation.
Warband actions 2 AP
-Train: Wanted to do this last turn, survey's done now so we know everyone and that should help.
-Trainx2: Potentially, however. Alternative idea
Experiment with anti undead tactics: things like setting up portable lures. Probably going to be more efficient at clearing out the undead than what we're currently doing.
Personal 5 AP: Probably very social heavy turn and depends a lot on the crusader.
-Socialise the three stooges: This is the big one, but I want to know WTF Feldad asked them to so we're not blindsided by whatever it is and if we know what it is, we might be able to help if its not stupid. I also want to ask Kartha, to make sure she's not made contact with Varimathras or something and is being ordered to sabotage relations, but I'm not sure I can swing that in one action.
-Socialise Mirador: This one's weird because I have three potential topics
1. Offer to guard the farmstead while he goes to complete his pilgrimage: This is the hubristic one as they don't trust us and a lot of our success has seemingly come from him smoothing things over, but we've made a good impression if nothing else, and it gives him a chance to do his thing, which is probably good.
2. Ask him to teach us of the light: Essentially bouncing off this
Its almost certainly an open invitation, but I think we can make it more impactful by going "yes you didn't preach, but we also did not ask" so lets rectify both those mistakes.
3. Finally and weirdest bounces off of this
Now if we were an actual shamen I'd say we try to pay back his knowledge, but well we're not, but Trion is a man who has had crises of faith and more in his life, and I think asking him for advice about the elements, how we perceive them and so would be a decent way to broach the topic of things like Dreadmist and Grok's many issues.
See meditation is all well and good, but again I still don't think Grok is making much in the way of progress in his current thought process, how the clans are organised and different varietals of shamanism doesn't change the problem. I think he needs an outside authority figure who can breach through to talk to him on that, and Tirion's probably our best bet on that front as he is patient, comparatively non judgement, wise and not overly influenced by the Horde's nonsense.
-Socialise the crusader/visit the crusade: get that done.
-Train tactics: Possible, synches up well potentially with training and experimenting with new tactics.
-Final action, unsure. I'm inclined towards another social action or meditation.
Alternatively the orc way is not with a fancy schmancy bell but lining up in formation before yelling together imitating Hellscream with one word as a taunt.
Make lures with traps with lots of spiky bitz.
Get some nets too to disable the undead to be finished off more easily.
Last edited:
SneakyWalrus
Is the Water Free?
To be fair, in a more realistic WoW, the theological debate around the context of the Light, the Spirits and even the inclusion of Monk's handling of Chi opens up a massive discussion around what each of those things are, and how they relate in a conceptual form, would be a massive ongoing issue in-setting.
Certainly, the conflicting idea between the Spirit of Life/Wilds as seen by Orcish Shaman contrasting against ideas around the Fury of Life as perceived by those Orcish Shaman who tradition is based on Draenor traditions is one worthy of it's own internal theological debate, and when you connect it to the religious ideal of the Light being vaguely similar in perception if not application, then that itself is a massive barrel of worms that the setting has refused to address.
Beyond that, there's also the later confusion and discussion around the fact that, according to canon at least, Chi and the Spirit of Life/Wilds are both different ways of observing the same thing, but from two different applications and means of utilizing it.
- Location
- United Kingdom
If they fight in particular ways yes, but not significantly from the base level. Orcs are almost universally warriors, like other warrior cultures. They're not professional soldiers though. They can get 'better' at fighting with unit cohesion, discipline, formation training, specialist training such as in ambushes, or they can get better equipped with armour or mounts, that sort of thing. Yes the individual level of skill will increase among the warriors, but fighting zombies won't really do that, and any such skill increases will be less relevant, having everyone get 20% better at fighting would be less important than something like getting them all armour.
It's a developing issue you've observed due to your direct leadership, it's not causing problems yet but it has the potential to.
Yes but there's more of a question of why the Scarlets seem to be doing that
Basically just that he was a powerful magic user who served the Scourge, not much else. Something like 'oh I heard Kelthuzad invented X or did Y', no context.
More like they find it amusing enough to lighten up the day, and that the work isn't difficult
His sword is there so sure? But at most there's like 1 hermit guarding it or something, I'm not thinking it's known as the actual burial site, just that it's known as a historic holy site, but yes correct that's where Tirion is heading.
One thing for you guys to remark upon and me to use those remarks to establish would be what Grok's actual problem is. Why can't he use the Elements? Is it because of the Dark Shamanism stuff and them retracting their support as they did from the Orcs on Draenor because the Orcs were attacking the Draenei? Is it because Grok is feeling guilty and this is affecting his magical abilities that require self-belief to work? Is it because he's just sad about his mentor dying and was in a traumatic situation?
Indeed. Even within the Church of the Holy Light there would be debate about which of the virtues is best, how the structure was, how morality works, all that stuff. If you're a druid you use natural power but worship the Wild Gods. Could you be a atheistic druid? Would that just make you a monk? There's loads of questions there.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Well I can think of a lot of nefarious reasons, but even just tactically if you want to clear out places of hostiles and are not in a hurry then its safest to lure them out and smack em.
Yeh. He actually breached the tomb and nearly let the horrible monster out.
There were more paladins there once, but the scourge apparently got a lot of em. Currently the main one left is a man named Travard. Still surprised its known as that, since on the surface tis mostly just a weird lake. Still I suppose they have to put two and two together that there's something going on with all the Tyrs that crop up in human histories.
Its the latter two and he knows it, there is really no reason for him not to know it unless he's actively refusing to address it.
Yes he knows the elements can retract their support, he is exceedingly familiar with that from his experiences with Proudpeek, but by similar merit, Grok is very aware that an elemental telling him to **** off does not stop him from using his elemental powers, or from being able to sense and contact them.
That he has a complete lack of connection should be all he needs to know that the issue is on his end and the tangent about human and orcish cultures is organised seems to be a very explicit attempt by him to do everything he can to not think about it.
He's consistent I'll give him that i.e. his first instinct when feeling the effects of his malaise was "maybe I've been cursed" and the second was "perhaps its just longer-term effects of his injuries" rather than considering whether or not he's got significant trauma related to those actions and he is deliberately not recognising that trauma or guilt, which makes him feel unworthy.
Essentially
How he uses shamanism, dark or not, is an ethical question almost entirely unrelated to the elements directly and have pretty much bubkiss to do with his culture never mind humanities.
The main way that dark shamanism connects to it again has very little to do with the elements themselves, its guilt Grok himself feels about essentially enslaving several.
Which leads to the main points that his current train of thought really does bugger all to at all address any of the core problems at play (something I mentioned the previous update) and by this point I am convinced he's only persuing it because Grok for whatever reason has some mental block preventing him from thinking about what happened so he can wallow in subconscious guilt.
Again its a very strange choice for things for Grok to focus his meditation on, in relation to the shamanism question, when not only has the issue of shamanism not turned up once in his thoughts, but the reason for our focus on meditation has frankly tenuous connections to shamanism at best thinking it over.*
TLDR: Grok maybe willing to admit fault, but he's not willing to admit he's got a problem which is a whole different kettle of fish, so he's looking for an external thing to blame, in this case orcish society/shamanistic traditions, which are only part of his internal problem. One he does have to recon with, but its most certainly a missing the forest for the trees problem.
*Its connected to shamanism because if he believes in himself he gets it back, but honestly he'd need a therapist irregardless and that is what this is.
Last edited:
Glad to see contact with the humans is going well. This dude seems pretty cool for a paladin of retribution, but I suppose retribution as a concept never really starts things. It's about conceptually finishing things. So pretty understandable that it wouldn't have that much of an effect on his personality in a first contact....or it would make him more mild mannered.
I like meditations on orcish society, and I think they are well rooted in the story thus far, and the broader backdrop all these characters live in. Being heir is hard work, especially when your people dont have the deepest leadership tradition. But I do hope that the 1 roll for integrating people into the Burning blade is bad for missing talent, not missing a malus/twilight hammer cultist.
As far as the Shamanism situation goes, I'm glad the Fire connection seems to resonate a bit with the old sword. Fire is a good element for our use, and the deep thinking/analyzing recently should help temper the more dangerous/mercurial aspects of fire.
And as to the deeper connections with elements, if there is ever a place to find elementals eager to barging we are there. When necromantic gunk abounds, a bit of demon stink is nothing! So hey, so much to learn about elementals still along with all other lore.
I like meditations on orcish society, and I think they are well rooted in the story thus far, and the broader backdrop all these characters live in. Being heir is hard work, especially when your people dont have the deepest leadership tradition. But I do hope that the 1 roll for integrating people into the Burning blade is bad for missing talent, not missing a malus/twilight hammer cultist.
As far as the Shamanism situation goes, I'm glad the Fire connection seems to resonate a bit with the old sword. Fire is a good element for our use, and the deep thinking/analyzing recently should help temper the more dangerous/mercurial aspects of fire.
And as to the deeper connections with elements, if there is ever a place to find elementals eager to barging we are there. When necromantic gunk abounds, a bit of demon stink is nothing! So hey, so much to learn about elementals still along with all other lore.
- Location
- United Kingdom
They're all linked though? To a person in Grok's position many of these issues are similar and play off each other. The last time the elements stopped listening to shaman was during the wars on Draenor. Nerzuhl goes back after visiting the ancestors and getting shunned and thinks about killing himself because he's messed up so badly. Grok will know the general story behind the elements not listening to shaman then, and will no doubt have heard various cultural stories and fables about such things. In the case where your spiritual power comes from contracts and relationships formed with Elementals, when you lose that power it's logical to consider that your contract partner might be upset in some way.
Additionally there's other things in play. Feldad was very quick to reassure Grok that it wasn't his fault etc, and while Grok recognises that his father isn't particularly open sometimes he does trust him and his knowledge, and you're correct to say
Indeed, Grok is having flashbacks etc, so he doesn't really want to think about what happened, or put himself in that situation again.
Incidentally, I remember reading quite an interesting article about mental health helpseeking, concentrating on why people didn't seek such help. Some of it was distrust of medical institutions etc but some of it looked at religion. There was mention of some young african guys who said that they didn't go to a nurse etc for mental health help, rather they considered it a spiritual issue so they thought only an imam would be able to help.
I've yet to make any particular indication of what Grok's issue is. For example if you all voted for some sort of apology mission to get the elements to patronise Grok again, that might indeed work, but equally that wouldn't resolve Grok's internal guilt because it doesn't magically resurrect all the dead guys at Dreadmist which Grok feels responsible for.
In the latest meditation section Grok was thinking about the differences in human and orc culture again yes, he was also thinking about the Light stuff and Tirion's advice to get on with the humans. This all contributes to the themes of his internal monologue. For example you could take Tirion's words of 'rise above insults, keep being nice' etc to apply to the Elements as well. Instead of grasping constantly for power through shamanism Grok might instead consider y'know, not kidnapping and enslaving elementals.
In summary, there are a number of issues with Grok's considerations, and it doesn't help that he's never actually talked to a shaman about it since Dreadmist
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
I know, I thought I managed to acknowledge that they are. And while Grok may think its a Nerzuhl thing the difference is that he has not done a Nerzuhl. Its a very big difference and Azeroth being the world that it is, I'd be unsurprised if there's plenty of elementals who want to shake his hand for defacto offing Proudpeak.
There is logic to his supposition and its certainly part of it, but not in the sense that the elements turning from him themselves is nearly enough. Not unless Grok thinks he's significantly more important than he believes himself to be.
And yeah I did point out fel dad...damn it I did point it out then I deleted it from my draft. Oh well. In an original version of my post I did point out that feldad had screwed up his attempts at introspection that way, I'm not sure if it was deliberate (it wouldn't surprise me in most contexts other than what it was).
Its a pretty common thing in a lot of cultures. The American military has a big issue with trying to get people to go to trained therapists because most soldiers prefer to go to their company chaplains for example.
I dunno I think you've been pretty loud and clear so far, the bedrock is guilt. He considers what he did to Proudpeak and other elementals wrong the doubt put in there by the centaurs, it is his **** up reinforced by Proudpeak attacking during the battle, which not only got the members of his clan and band killed, but also hammered home how wrong he was at worst possible moment, when Jub came and the power that might have given him enough of an advantage to be more than dead weight simply was not there. Thus his supposed skill with a blade was demonstrated to be not enough as well and another person's corpse was added to the already rising pile, Akinos's even more impactful because he was his mentor, one of the most important members of the blade and he explicitly sacrificed himself to ensure Grok's survival.
Strip away everything else you come back to the thing it all extends Grok thinks that his enslavement of the elements was wrong.
The reason for his current diatribe is seeming that he's trying to rationalise how it can be so wrong when so many parts of his society accept it was par for the course, including his clan, seemingly ignoring his own rejection of other clan traditions because he thinks they're not up to scratch either.
And yes
though we did talk to a shaman since dreadmist, Thrall counts right.
Thing is we didn't talk to one and over all I think its probably for the best, cause so far we've met around 3-4 shamen over anything resembling an extended period of time, all of whom have been extremely judgemental about how shamanism is done. It is a theological issue and people are notoriously tetchy about those.
Anyway
Yes, I know the main person whose not recognised that is Grok in this instance. It was why I was disappointed he did not incorporate this
into his meditation especially the bit about Turalyon.
They took up their librams and they received great power yes, but they did it for a goal and it was power offered because of their ideals, because seemingly they tried to embody them not taken or stolen. I was hoping he might compare and contrast to an extent with what he learnt, what he knows of typical shamanism and what he said there.
Alternatively instead of looking at the organisation of the horde look at its motivations. Tirion talked about how the orcs came as conquerors, to take whatever they wanted as if it was their right, well Grok's been on the receiving end personally of how that attitude ends up when taken to the elements! Hell he could apply that to the whole of the orcish horde during the 1st and 2nd wars where it ended in their defeat and before that resulted in their abandonment by the elements and it was only when Thrall came in with the miraculous idea of "maybe don't be dicks to everyone" that their fortunes started to change.
Heck if the cross comparison to humans keeps on going he could make the internal argument that the orcs needed someone like Thrall, raised by humans, to bring themselves more in balance as they used to be instead of only smacking things. He already talked about how its seemingly their natural inclination to hit something rather than build, or work out disagreements, but despite how utterly cynical he is about pre fel orcs he does seem to ignore utterly how if orcs were incapable of building instead of just hitting there'd be no clans in the first place. And to again apply that to the elements, don't try to enslave the mountain if its uninterested, much like humans mountains can punch back. Often at the worst possible time.
- Location
- PA
Okay.
We have our destination. We know where we are, more or less.
Now for the hard part, from our perspective- leading Grok to make that Journey, against the secret Fel clubs who will push him to take the Fel.
It's not enough to refuse the call when it comes-we have to make sure we don't do things that make the conclusion of 'take the Fel' tempting or a simple answer.
We have our destination. We know where we are, more or less.
Now for the hard part, from our perspective- leading Grok to make that Journey, against the secret Fel clubs who will push him to take the Fel.
It's not enough to refuse the call when it comes-we have to make sure we don't do things that make the conclusion of 'take the Fel' tempting or a simple answer.
- Location
- United Kingdom
Don't massively disagree with you, though I'd register a slight point that complex events rarely stem from single points. While the end point is certainly guilt, it's a fairly complex guilt, whether from failure to 'win' in a command situation, the deaths of subordinates, the death of the Akinos, some vague guilt about Jub being a blademaster and Grok wanting to revive the blademasters, all that sort of thing. There's even some guilt at being guilty because Feldad said 'dont be guilty'. I've not represented it as stemming from the elemental stuff in main part because there are indeed a lot of different things.
I can certainly put this stuff in, the meditation part of the last chapter wasn't massively long, partly because I just wanted to write the chapter I think, but you'll be hanging about with the light more in future so there's certainly space for such considerations
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
I'd disagree...kinda. Its not that I'm ignoring the obvious that obviously this is the result of a complex mess, but I do think we can determine that certain things are more important to his overall guilt than others, and specifically spawns other elements of it.
To go through your examples
1. Failure to win in a command situation goes back to Proudpeak, after all in his mind things were going about as well as he could hope for until that point.
2. Death of subordinates comes from the failure to win in a command situation comes from him blaming his personal abilities, and the above, with I think the latter being emphasised because Proudpeak was there because he bound him and dragged him there.
3. Death of Akinos failure of him to live up to the lessons he'd been taught, guilt that Akinos sacrificed himself for him, more guilt that he lost his powers at exactly the wrong moment, even more guilt cause he knows why he lost his powers at that moment.
4. As you said its vague guilt, for a reason, at most he'd feel that because Jub is an insult to what he wants the blademasters to stand for. Grok doesn't exactly what to revive the blademasters as Jub is the embodiment of.
5. Survivors guilt stemming from a whole bunch of things, but again the key one I'd identify is once again his binding of proudpeak.
The way I look at it is this, had Proudpeak not turned up, things could well have still gone horribly given Jub was there, but Grok was not personally responsible for Jub and there's a big difference between fighting Jub solo/with Akinos, vs fighting him with say the surviving elders of the burning blade.
Proudpeak is absolutely his fuck up, he bound him, he brought him to dreadmist and so on.
However, I fear we're talking at crossways.
I'm not saying it is.
Grok is feeling disgust and guilt over his actions towards others and the consequence stemming from those actions towards others because the consequences have come up and smacked him over the head with a frying pan.
That the consequences took the form of a mountainous elemental compared to say a slave he took merely reinforces the point home, he's had it thrust into his face how treating others like they are a means rather than an end and interfering with their agency leads to them pushing back hard.
This is incongruous with a lot of orcish society which is all about displaying one's power in order to force people to do as you say (something he's very familiar with as the runt of the litter) which I'd say is part of why he's considering such things.
He's having a prolonged "are we the baddies" moment in essence, compounding all the guilt he'd have already felt from everything we've already talked about.
The point I'm trying to make specifically, is that I think Grok once he had this revelation would have shut his connection down anyway even if elementals had had nothing to do with it. If a slave had been the cause and he realised "I am treating the elements like dogs/tools/slaves what have I done? This is terrible, everything has gone to shit because I did this" I think we'd be in a very similar situation.
Maybe, but you have to remember the exiles are so opposite they're almost parallel.
Tirion was old, Grok was young.
Tirion left vilified by pretty much all who knew him, Grok's star has risen dramatically almost because he was exiled.
Tirion stayed close to his home, Grok's gone literally a continent away.
Tirion left alone (sans horse) Grok got given over 100 warriors as a going away gift.
The main similarity is that both got exiled for doing what they believed to be right, which is a connection and a strong one. Just something to bare in mind though.
Welp, I suppose I have some free time now, so I want to write in about my navel gazing regarding the general guilt situation plot wise. Its been fun to sit on, as I had been busy with irl stuff during the period of Kolkar fight, and I think only voted at a few junctions; chiming in at others. Decent chunks got read through in single sittings, so it all felt like a bit of a blur for me too, so all and all a fun ride : ) I haven't had time to read the actual discussion much recently, so apologies if I end up beating a dead horse or mostly say stuff already covered. But I like writing about meta-narrative navel gazing when I have some time to unwind, so hopefully someone enjoys reading this.
However, I do find it somewhat humorous looking back at how both thread participation/thus Grok himself dithered before returning to Orgrimmar the first time. I think that is one of the best benefits of starting a character's story at the beginning of their "independent action" phase of life is showcasing how chaotic alot of individual's life paths are. The first time stepping into the larger world is always a time of seeming endless potential, and choices are generally overwhelming. But life tends to pull one along, as did the main quest of parcel deliveries. But now Grok has a few extra friends to help out in a different adventure, and a few potential in's amid the various troll groups he might not otherwise had. So that shows the benefit of trying to make the most of where one is before trying to chase far off goals I suppose.
Even if that did cost some early goodwill with Neeru, spending time "growing up" and facing challanges that he was not otherwise involved in helped prepare Grok for the times he was personally involved. Trying to solve problems where one is a virtue, but it can also blind one to other storms creeping along the horizon. The Early Barrens read that way to me, colored by my own time reading it of course. A general feeling of approaching it the same way as Durotar, only to be thrown on the back foot by larger movements amid the world then many individuals, let alone a youth, would find themselves unprepared for. Which goes back to falling upon one's individual strength and the previously learned lessions, along with what other resources are at hand. In that case, it was rising to the occasion and throwing himself into ensuring his broader faction survived. That is also a noble goal, but it did not come cleanly. Hence the general guilt/panic fueled ride back to Orgrimmar, pretty different from the first.
As far as comparisons go, I feel like it's an apt metaphor for any Orc in the Warcraft universe with a good heart trying to deal with the broader universe. Their people have won a place, and won friends they previously didn't have. See the Troll relations earlier. They are not strong, and they are not yet bonds of iron/blood but they are there. And they will grow in time. Same with the promise of the 'lost past' that the faction represented by Thrall. Grok had the Tome, and spent time talking with a few shaman and witch doctors. But the trust with the Trolls is not yet there, and so he had no purchase to that. As to his own people's traditions, the Tribal and factious nature of the Orc clans is a fascinating model to use to examine social interactions/ 'civilization'. Because even though they had a grand budding culture on Draenor, alot has changed since then.
So everyone is inherently still starting from coals. The Shaman after the previously almost faded Frostwolf tradition, the clans themselves from the effects of the Wars and the Horde's social changes, and everyone coming to terms with the touch of demons upon them.
After all, demons tainted Ner'zul and he started the Horde. Demons got Gul'dan to usurp /marginalize him when he realized he was being tricked. Demon blood gave many Orcs a deep feeling of power, and the general rage to use it indiscriminately. Demons still control many orcish clans, and only recently attempted to invade/destroy the world most Orcs now call home. Unsurprisingly, many orcs, including the viewpoint character, loathe demons in general and the Burning Legion in particular. Others look back fondly, reminded of the power they wielded then just as many reformers look to the power wielded before the Legion's meddling. Others, including the aformentioned clans still under the yolk of demons find the price for that power cheap enough to still wield. Which leads us to the more philosophical parts, given that 'magical power' comes in many flavors in this world. And most are informed by the characters who use those powers, drawing from the philosophy used by those characters to wield them.
The fact the paladin recently met pays homage to the Retribution facet of the Light is interesting as well. Retribution is ill suited to starting fights, and his viewpoint of both Magics/the past is bound to be interesting enough for Grok to grow/metabolize his past traumas in constructive ways I think. The Light itself is a Primary force of this cosmos, but it is wielded by individuals. This man lived through the same traumatic period that defined Grok's parent's generation, but on the opposite side. Thus, alot of perspective can be gained.
Back to the more philosophical aspects, I will leave the Light alone until more is revealed in story. It seems to be a Primary Force in the Universe, much like Arcane, Fel, Shadow/Void, Life, Death/Necromancy. Obviously, there are no real answers here. But what follows will be my own attempt to talk about the primary effects of magic on the Orcish people and its potential future. Orcs themselves started out much like most of the sapient peoples shown in this universe. They formed tribal bands, fought to survive, and stumbled across routes to the magic that seems to pervade everything in this setting. For Orcs, it seems their native connection to the elements was quite strong. Makes sense given that they were apparently born of fully Incarnated True Elementals. Plus, given that these Elementals were in war against a Plant people wielding that Nature/Life magic, it makes sense they have little experience there. I may be misremembering, but I seem to recall that the Burning Blade specifically finds it easier to connect to the Firelands, while the Blackrock's heritage/years spent building upon it gave them great mastery of Earth elemental magic. Well, at least until all the Elementals of Draenor started losing the Shadow War to the Legion. The Patrons who give your spell casters access to magic is a pretty important link in that chain to keep one's traditions alive then.
So it is interesting to me how the Burning Blade specifically still trended towards their firey blademasters even after their power source became Fel rather then donated Elemental Energy. It implies that the techniques and the power behind them can be considered different entities, and it is this conclusion that alot of my excitement about the Blademaster Order concept in general comes from. It also seems targeted to materiel a specific cultural fear that could arise from the past traumatic generation or two about losing their magical resources and the safety/stability it provides. That seems a good chunk of Thrall's fear and desire to rebuilt their Shamantic Institutions. Or, in reality completely build new Shamantic institutions from the ground up while also trying to colonize a pretty harsh place surrounded by enemies. So not necessarily a fun place to be. However, Grok himself is being hit hard by the other side of that stick.
Thrall came of age in a period where his subset of the Orcish people were at the lowest point in living memory. They were locked in camps, and detoxing from two very addictive substances. Magical Power, and the Power it gives to those who touch it. In this specific case, Fel given strength and heavily accented rage; with those being applied forcefully to conquer. Being on a warpath for years, only to finally be stuck in a prison sweating out Magical-Entropy-Radition-Juice is a real scarring/exhausting experience. Or at least one could assume. Thus, it makes sense that he looked at this environment and made some conclusions. This being, the Orcs would be better without attempting to conquer everyone (reasonable assumption), and that all things demon touched were best avoided. His conclusions ran into reality once he tried to apply them, which is why the Horde is at low level conflict with so many people. Along with that, Grok's own upbringing was possible, one where demonic magic was used yet orcs had no nominal masters.
So now is the story as it is currently unfolding, following the heir of the clan where most of the 'demonic taint' is congregated. This young orc is stepping out into a much different world then Thrall did upon his taking up a Quest. The Orcs have a home in which they are somewhat secure. This security is threatened by many outside forces, for many different reasons. The Quillboars over territorial disputes, the Centaurs over a mix of the same with both their general nomadic/raider nature and religious cults, before even getting into those troubles that followed them from the pre-Thrall days. He even starts on a somewhat similar path, trying to learn about the Orcish people pre-demon heritage. But, said heritage is still more embers then fire. Even for the sole book learning inclined clan.
He has some rites, and he knows how they came about. He even knows examples of how these things happened before. He can see the results of other culture's attempt at the same rites in the Troll's fetishes, and the Tauren Totems. But these are not the same elementals, the same world, the same history as those other rites were meant for. So naturally they have not applied well. That, along with some mistakes born of just not knowing. See binding the fire elemental to the sword, causing its original enchantments to sputter. But still, no one else is walking that same path. How can they? Grok himself pointed out that Thrall let the Blademasters go to loose ends, seeing them as not a part of Orcish Heritage with enough worth to keep around. So how can someone who's first two inborn clan ideals of strength, the Blademaster or his Father the Warlock, not have some issues about how a large part of his heritage is not worth fighting for.
That alone would be enough to light a fire in alot of individual's belly, so I am glad to see it play out in Grok's inner narrative. There are alot of stakes to the game of surviving in Azeroth, so thinking critically on the problems for long periods is always suggested. With Grok currently mulling over the Clan system itself, I do hope that this will lead to more decision/growth involving the future of his own clan, the Burning Blade. Because the Barren's Incident and the Fallout heavily raised his star , along with that of his clan. Its good to see that the new responsibilities are leading to him actively thinking about what makes a clan a clan. What if the Warsong were just a professional guild? On on the inverse, what if it was nothing more then a social unit? He is currently squatting in the wreckage of a human noble estate. What if the Warsong became a smaller offically feudal unit of the Horde? What if the Burning Blade did? What if there was just a clan for clanless orcs? None of these questions can be answered in any reasonable length of time. So it only makes sense to bring them up again and again over time as one becomes wiser. To Contemplate something is not the same as to Act on something, but the Act of Contemplation has a high probability to make future Actions bring more Benefit.
Which leads this navel gazing back around to the Orcish Elemental Heritage. Blackrocks were said to be connected to the Earth, and they were skilled at Building, Forging, and other constructive tasks. Would he have had better luck with understanding the Earth elements if he was Blackrock? Would his attempt with the Sapa, or talking down the Elemental Duke have gone different at all? If so, what did it mean that so many people were coming to join the Burning Blade under his oversight? He is shown himself to be a fair minded person, so I cannot imagine he would become overly worried about Blood/heritage. But he connected to fire easily...Or was it just that it was just that it was a simple elemental that he overwhelmed, giving him a direct link to Elemental Fire? Does that mean that these things can be nurtured? Trying to gain more Fire magics while surrounded by Undead does give alot of benefit.
However, I am prevaricating. Focusing on other issues like the future of the Burning Blade or Philosophical issues of heritage. Sorta like Grok is, avoiding the issue that he just lead a large amount of people to their death. Which is a huge massive bone crushing amount of guilt in the best of times, which this is not for him.
As I alluded to earlier, the parallels between adventuring in the Barrens vs Durotar came to a rather sharp head. In Durotar, it was simply being force to head up for the assumption of responsibilities with the guilt of potentially not made the best use of time. Neeru and the greater Horde loomed over head, signaling that things would probably have grander stakes now. And so, Grok had to head to Orgrimmar with tasks left unsolved. Unsurprisingly, the beating heart of Orcish activity in Durotar had a large amount of things demanding attention. Plus, the same demand to maximize gain for time before larger responsibilities dominated. He mixed with shaman, warlocks, blademasters, all trying to learn about the world. Hell, he even went out of his way to try and mend internal diplomatic rifts in the Horde with what little power he had by making nice with Thrall's majordomo. That also was a bit of an annoyance to Neeru if I recall, though given that it was beneficial I would rank it the start of Grok proving his own way has validity to his own Father.
With Darkstorm, the general demon taint was brought up quite harshly. Careless dabbling in the Fel had left that goblin beginning to mutate, which is something most would feel a general revulsion to in most senses. Especially upon dwelling on it, the idea that a power can change your form in ways you cannot control is bonechilling. Especially if it can do it without one's consent. Which most magics can in the Warcraft universe, see Mana mutants and the Wild gods. But hey, Grok does what he can. He gains a bit of personal prestige, gains some grunts to call his own, and starts on his quest to clear up his clan's good name by cleaning out the bad apples. He has displayed nothing stunning in leadership, but still preforms ably for someone with no formal training. Which upon seeking mentors, is told that most Orcs have had to just learn it as they go. Another example of why building better institutions would be on Grok's mind so much, because what if he knew better?
After all, ending up on the front of a war is not something anyone expected upon coming to the Barrens. But the Frontier is the Frontier, so small scale attacks are not uncommon. Yet the problem of stepping into the middle of a simmering low level war is that sometimes it breaks out into a full scale one. And in this instance, the forting up of the Burning Blade forces seems to be what drew out the Kolkar war herd. The fact that it was simply to buy time to summon a grand magical doom's day weapon in the form of a minor deity is just part of war in an insanely magical world. The fact that the doom's day weapon is a sapient being, composed of Platonic Forces in which Orcs also dabble, is just the reason navel gazing about fiction is so fun.
This leads back to comparing the Magical Forces in the world against each other. Going by the Blizzard cosmography drawings that also cropped up earlier in the thread, the Warcraft universe functions by balancing competing forces. Very Yin-Yang in some ways, not so in others. Extremely yin yang in the panda magic, which is taken heavily from daoist/general wuxia stuff if i recall correctly. In this instance, I believe the Worlds upon which all existence plays out are Fundamentally Arcane, which then filters down into elemental magics through the connection to the World-soul. Arcane is opposed by Fel, which is why that individual force mucks with Arcane derived sources so much. However, there is also the Dichotomies of Nature/Life vs Necromantic/Death along with Light/Holy vs Void/Shadow/Unholy.
I bring up all these to show that there are those extra dimensions to add more depth to the fundamental Arcane vs Fel dichotomy. As most Titan worship is marginalized in Azeroth, and most Legion worship heavily frowned upon, the outside of Azeroth Actors/Organizations which wield these forces are fundamentally different then the energies themselves. They are simply forces, which have effects. I bring this up to define how these act in Universe, which informs how they act Narratively. And narritively they allow the general Kolkar Incident to take on a shadow of the bigger plays.
After all, the Fel owns the area between the Arcane World-souls. The individuals who have been mutated by the Fel into more forces of nature then sapient being in the Demons existed for centuries as mostly a nuisance clawing away at unwary dabblers before an Arcane Titan decided to embrace Fel for the sole purpose of killing World -souls. That made them into the Legion, which made the danger far worse. Its amusing to note that the current 'Intelligent' demon lords in the Legion tend to emerge after Sargaras takes over dousing people with Fel. Which is some evidence that the Order of Arcane was able to make application of Chaotic Fel energy more beneficial/managable then the more raw corruption shown by both the Pitlords themselves and the Felorcs who drank their blood.
Which brings me back to the smaller scale, that of the individual Orcs in the Burning Blade clan. As I earlier compared and contrasted Grok and Thrall, now I shall contrast him with the Elder Warlocks shown at the Mountain. Both had been trying to investigate their 'tradition' of power. In Grok's case, it came down to defeating two elementals in single combat. One of weak power was bound, and one of greater force remained prisoner while more research was to be done. In the Elder's, the heritage of Gul'dan is the Fel they draw from destruction and souls. I do believe that Neeru said that one did a ritual in which they saw the Twisting Nether, the power offered by the Fel, and claim it. That is the way the Orcs of the Burning Blade currently approach the Fel, seeing the raw Universal entropy that links the Worlds together in the black. The destruction spread by the Legion as it converts souls/ arcane energy into Fel. No wonder the first step is to shove Fel energy/torture magical creatures to try and make more Fel. That is the whole tradition given by the Legion to the orcs through Gul'dan. But it is not all there is to Fel, just like how Draenor and Azeroth have different elemental natures.
Grok was drawing from a tradition from a planet where the elementals were peaceful and overflowing with power. Grok's current people live on a planet where elementals are bound to their own planes, and feud between themselves for magical power. His people got there via portal conveniently powered by a magic of an opposed nature to the elements, and caused a ruckus. Thus, there is quite alot to bridge. In quite a literal way, his own failures to bridge that gap almost lost the day for his people at a pivotal moment as the captured stone elemental broke free and rallied to its kin. That would give anyone quite alot of guilt over being unworthy for the mantel they are trying to claim. Its made worse by his failure to apply scraps of a modest shamanistic tradition from another world being overshone by the works of orcs whos actual actions disgust a more empathetic individual. There are ways to wield a Platonic force of Unraveling beyond simply flaying the flesh from things, physical or spiritual. But the Legion needed dumb weapons, so dumb weapons they formed of the Orcs.
So its a fun challange posed to the young orc. What does he make of his future, and how will it help the future of his people? He has already turned down that poor way of approaching the Fel, and he has the temporal clout to have orc hours sunk into investigating other ways to use that sword with a proper hilt. There is already diplomatic connection happening with a Light wielder. Can Grok touch upon that too, or at least help find some orcs who take to those traditions? It remains to be seen. As i said in an earlier post, if there was a place to meet elementals who would pact with Grok, the plaguelands would be it. Even if not, it will be interesting seeing how he goes over those thoughts. Its a short jump from wondering about how life would be different as a Blackrock, to connecting it back to the trauma /wondering if he had tried the Sapa with a Wall or other constructed building.
However, I think he is set up to overcome these troubles well. Standing up to Thrall and demarcating his own loyalty to Clan, it allows him to slowly develop as a counter weight to Thrall's vision of Orcs, their heritage, and their magical traditions. If he can win over the Burning Blade and Neeru to a more constructive worldview/ add better quality of leadership to the Horde at large, that is one huge win towards keeping the Horde and Alliance from spiraling into wars when there are other bigger threats to face. Grok knows about the Legion, but the Old God's are real spooky too. Thanks for writing such a compelling character study FD! I haven't had good cause to get back in a large way into Warcraft nonsense for years, and I'm enjoying the thought experiments alot.
However, I do find it somewhat humorous looking back at how both thread participation/thus Grok himself dithered before returning to Orgrimmar the first time. I think that is one of the best benefits of starting a character's story at the beginning of their "independent action" phase of life is showcasing how chaotic alot of individual's life paths are. The first time stepping into the larger world is always a time of seeming endless potential, and choices are generally overwhelming. But life tends to pull one along, as did the main quest of parcel deliveries. But now Grok has a few extra friends to help out in a different adventure, and a few potential in's amid the various troll groups he might not otherwise had. So that shows the benefit of trying to make the most of where one is before trying to chase far off goals I suppose.
Even if that did cost some early goodwill with Neeru, spending time "growing up" and facing challanges that he was not otherwise involved in helped prepare Grok for the times he was personally involved. Trying to solve problems where one is a virtue, but it can also blind one to other storms creeping along the horizon. The Early Barrens read that way to me, colored by my own time reading it of course. A general feeling of approaching it the same way as Durotar, only to be thrown on the back foot by larger movements amid the world then many individuals, let alone a youth, would find themselves unprepared for. Which goes back to falling upon one's individual strength and the previously learned lessions, along with what other resources are at hand. In that case, it was rising to the occasion and throwing himself into ensuring his broader faction survived. That is also a noble goal, but it did not come cleanly. Hence the general guilt/panic fueled ride back to Orgrimmar, pretty different from the first.
As far as comparisons go, I feel like it's an apt metaphor for any Orc in the Warcraft universe with a good heart trying to deal with the broader universe. Their people have won a place, and won friends they previously didn't have. See the Troll relations earlier. They are not strong, and they are not yet bonds of iron/blood but they are there. And they will grow in time. Same with the promise of the 'lost past' that the faction represented by Thrall. Grok had the Tome, and spent time talking with a few shaman and witch doctors. But the trust with the Trolls is not yet there, and so he had no purchase to that. As to his own people's traditions, the Tribal and factious nature of the Orc clans is a fascinating model to use to examine social interactions/ 'civilization'. Because even though they had a grand budding culture on Draenor, alot has changed since then.
So everyone is inherently still starting from coals. The Shaman after the previously almost faded Frostwolf tradition, the clans themselves from the effects of the Wars and the Horde's social changes, and everyone coming to terms with the touch of demons upon them.
After all, demons tainted Ner'zul and he started the Horde. Demons got Gul'dan to usurp /marginalize him when he realized he was being tricked. Demon blood gave many Orcs a deep feeling of power, and the general rage to use it indiscriminately. Demons still control many orcish clans, and only recently attempted to invade/destroy the world most Orcs now call home. Unsurprisingly, many orcs, including the viewpoint character, loathe demons in general and the Burning Legion in particular. Others look back fondly, reminded of the power they wielded then just as many reformers look to the power wielded before the Legion's meddling. Others, including the aformentioned clans still under the yolk of demons find the price for that power cheap enough to still wield. Which leads us to the more philosophical parts, given that 'magical power' comes in many flavors in this world. And most are informed by the characters who use those powers, drawing from the philosophy used by those characters to wield them.
The fact the paladin recently met pays homage to the Retribution facet of the Light is interesting as well. Retribution is ill suited to starting fights, and his viewpoint of both Magics/the past is bound to be interesting enough for Grok to grow/metabolize his past traumas in constructive ways I think. The Light itself is a Primary force of this cosmos, but it is wielded by individuals. This man lived through the same traumatic period that defined Grok's parent's generation, but on the opposite side. Thus, alot of perspective can be gained.
Back to the more philosophical aspects, I will leave the Light alone until more is revealed in story. It seems to be a Primary Force in the Universe, much like Arcane, Fel, Shadow/Void, Life, Death/Necromancy. Obviously, there are no real answers here. But what follows will be my own attempt to talk about the primary effects of magic on the Orcish people and its potential future. Orcs themselves started out much like most of the sapient peoples shown in this universe. They formed tribal bands, fought to survive, and stumbled across routes to the magic that seems to pervade everything in this setting. For Orcs, it seems their native connection to the elements was quite strong. Makes sense given that they were apparently born of fully Incarnated True Elementals. Plus, given that these Elementals were in war against a Plant people wielding that Nature/Life magic, it makes sense they have little experience there. I may be misremembering, but I seem to recall that the Burning Blade specifically finds it easier to connect to the Firelands, while the Blackrock's heritage/years spent building upon it gave them great mastery of Earth elemental magic. Well, at least until all the Elementals of Draenor started losing the Shadow War to the Legion. The Patrons who give your spell casters access to magic is a pretty important link in that chain to keep one's traditions alive then.
So it is interesting to me how the Burning Blade specifically still trended towards their firey blademasters even after their power source became Fel rather then donated Elemental Energy. It implies that the techniques and the power behind them can be considered different entities, and it is this conclusion that alot of my excitement about the Blademaster Order concept in general comes from. It also seems targeted to materiel a specific cultural fear that could arise from the past traumatic generation or two about losing their magical resources and the safety/stability it provides. That seems a good chunk of Thrall's fear and desire to rebuilt their Shamantic Institutions. Or, in reality completely build new Shamantic institutions from the ground up while also trying to colonize a pretty harsh place surrounded by enemies. So not necessarily a fun place to be. However, Grok himself is being hit hard by the other side of that stick.
Thrall came of age in a period where his subset of the Orcish people were at the lowest point in living memory. They were locked in camps, and detoxing from two very addictive substances. Magical Power, and the Power it gives to those who touch it. In this specific case, Fel given strength and heavily accented rage; with those being applied forcefully to conquer. Being on a warpath for years, only to finally be stuck in a prison sweating out Magical-Entropy-Radition-Juice is a real scarring/exhausting experience. Or at least one could assume. Thus, it makes sense that he looked at this environment and made some conclusions. This being, the Orcs would be better without attempting to conquer everyone (reasonable assumption), and that all things demon touched were best avoided. His conclusions ran into reality once he tried to apply them, which is why the Horde is at low level conflict with so many people. Along with that, Grok's own upbringing was possible, one where demonic magic was used yet orcs had no nominal masters.
So now is the story as it is currently unfolding, following the heir of the clan where most of the 'demonic taint' is congregated. This young orc is stepping out into a much different world then Thrall did upon his taking up a Quest. The Orcs have a home in which they are somewhat secure. This security is threatened by many outside forces, for many different reasons. The Quillboars over territorial disputes, the Centaurs over a mix of the same with both their general nomadic/raider nature and religious cults, before even getting into those troubles that followed them from the pre-Thrall days. He even starts on a somewhat similar path, trying to learn about the Orcish people pre-demon heritage. But, said heritage is still more embers then fire. Even for the sole book learning inclined clan.
He has some rites, and he knows how they came about. He even knows examples of how these things happened before. He can see the results of other culture's attempt at the same rites in the Troll's fetishes, and the Tauren Totems. But these are not the same elementals, the same world, the same history as those other rites were meant for. So naturally they have not applied well. That, along with some mistakes born of just not knowing. See binding the fire elemental to the sword, causing its original enchantments to sputter. But still, no one else is walking that same path. How can they? Grok himself pointed out that Thrall let the Blademasters go to loose ends, seeing them as not a part of Orcish Heritage with enough worth to keep around. So how can someone who's first two inborn clan ideals of strength, the Blademaster or his Father the Warlock, not have some issues about how a large part of his heritage is not worth fighting for.
That alone would be enough to light a fire in alot of individual's belly, so I am glad to see it play out in Grok's inner narrative. There are alot of stakes to the game of surviving in Azeroth, so thinking critically on the problems for long periods is always suggested. With Grok currently mulling over the Clan system itself, I do hope that this will lead to more decision/growth involving the future of his own clan, the Burning Blade. Because the Barren's Incident and the Fallout heavily raised his star , along with that of his clan. Its good to see that the new responsibilities are leading to him actively thinking about what makes a clan a clan. What if the Warsong were just a professional guild? On on the inverse, what if it was nothing more then a social unit? He is currently squatting in the wreckage of a human noble estate. What if the Warsong became a smaller offically feudal unit of the Horde? What if the Burning Blade did? What if there was just a clan for clanless orcs? None of these questions can be answered in any reasonable length of time. So it only makes sense to bring them up again and again over time as one becomes wiser. To Contemplate something is not the same as to Act on something, but the Act of Contemplation has a high probability to make future Actions bring more Benefit.
Which leads this navel gazing back around to the Orcish Elemental Heritage. Blackrocks were said to be connected to the Earth, and they were skilled at Building, Forging, and other constructive tasks. Would he have had better luck with understanding the Earth elements if he was Blackrock? Would his attempt with the Sapa, or talking down the Elemental Duke have gone different at all? If so, what did it mean that so many people were coming to join the Burning Blade under his oversight? He is shown himself to be a fair minded person, so I cannot imagine he would become overly worried about Blood/heritage. But he connected to fire easily...Or was it just that it was just that it was a simple elemental that he overwhelmed, giving him a direct link to Elemental Fire? Does that mean that these things can be nurtured? Trying to gain more Fire magics while surrounded by Undead does give alot of benefit.
However, I am prevaricating. Focusing on other issues like the future of the Burning Blade or Philosophical issues of heritage. Sorta like Grok is, avoiding the issue that he just lead a large amount of people to their death. Which is a huge massive bone crushing amount of guilt in the best of times, which this is not for him.
As I alluded to earlier, the parallels between adventuring in the Barrens vs Durotar came to a rather sharp head. In Durotar, it was simply being force to head up for the assumption of responsibilities with the guilt of potentially not made the best use of time. Neeru and the greater Horde loomed over head, signaling that things would probably have grander stakes now. And so, Grok had to head to Orgrimmar with tasks left unsolved. Unsurprisingly, the beating heart of Orcish activity in Durotar had a large amount of things demanding attention. Plus, the same demand to maximize gain for time before larger responsibilities dominated. He mixed with shaman, warlocks, blademasters, all trying to learn about the world. Hell, he even went out of his way to try and mend internal diplomatic rifts in the Horde with what little power he had by making nice with Thrall's majordomo. That also was a bit of an annoyance to Neeru if I recall, though given that it was beneficial I would rank it the start of Grok proving his own way has validity to his own Father.
With Darkstorm, the general demon taint was brought up quite harshly. Careless dabbling in the Fel had left that goblin beginning to mutate, which is something most would feel a general revulsion to in most senses. Especially upon dwelling on it, the idea that a power can change your form in ways you cannot control is bonechilling. Especially if it can do it without one's consent. Which most magics can in the Warcraft universe, see Mana mutants and the Wild gods. But hey, Grok does what he can. He gains a bit of personal prestige, gains some grunts to call his own, and starts on his quest to clear up his clan's good name by cleaning out the bad apples. He has displayed nothing stunning in leadership, but still preforms ably for someone with no formal training. Which upon seeking mentors, is told that most Orcs have had to just learn it as they go. Another example of why building better institutions would be on Grok's mind so much, because what if he knew better?
After all, ending up on the front of a war is not something anyone expected upon coming to the Barrens. But the Frontier is the Frontier, so small scale attacks are not uncommon. Yet the problem of stepping into the middle of a simmering low level war is that sometimes it breaks out into a full scale one. And in this instance, the forting up of the Burning Blade forces seems to be what drew out the Kolkar war herd. The fact that it was simply to buy time to summon a grand magical doom's day weapon in the form of a minor deity is just part of war in an insanely magical world. The fact that the doom's day weapon is a sapient being, composed of Platonic Forces in which Orcs also dabble, is just the reason navel gazing about fiction is so fun.
This leads back to comparing the Magical Forces in the world against each other. Going by the Blizzard cosmography drawings that also cropped up earlier in the thread, the Warcraft universe functions by balancing competing forces. Very Yin-Yang in some ways, not so in others. Extremely yin yang in the panda magic, which is taken heavily from daoist/general wuxia stuff if i recall correctly. In this instance, I believe the Worlds upon which all existence plays out are Fundamentally Arcane, which then filters down into elemental magics through the connection to the World-soul. Arcane is opposed by Fel, which is why that individual force mucks with Arcane derived sources so much. However, there is also the Dichotomies of Nature/Life vs Necromantic/Death along with Light/Holy vs Void/Shadow/Unholy.
I bring up all these to show that there are those extra dimensions to add more depth to the fundamental Arcane vs Fel dichotomy. As most Titan worship is marginalized in Azeroth, and most Legion worship heavily frowned upon, the outside of Azeroth Actors/Organizations which wield these forces are fundamentally different then the energies themselves. They are simply forces, which have effects. I bring this up to define how these act in Universe, which informs how they act Narratively. And narritively they allow the general Kolkar Incident to take on a shadow of the bigger plays.
After all, the Fel owns the area between the Arcane World-souls. The individuals who have been mutated by the Fel into more forces of nature then sapient being in the Demons existed for centuries as mostly a nuisance clawing away at unwary dabblers before an Arcane Titan decided to embrace Fel for the sole purpose of killing World -souls. That made them into the Legion, which made the danger far worse. Its amusing to note that the current 'Intelligent' demon lords in the Legion tend to emerge after Sargaras takes over dousing people with Fel. Which is some evidence that the Order of Arcane was able to make application of Chaotic Fel energy more beneficial/managable then the more raw corruption shown by both the Pitlords themselves and the Felorcs who drank their blood.
Which brings me back to the smaller scale, that of the individual Orcs in the Burning Blade clan. As I earlier compared and contrasted Grok and Thrall, now I shall contrast him with the Elder Warlocks shown at the Mountain. Both had been trying to investigate their 'tradition' of power. In Grok's case, it came down to defeating two elementals in single combat. One of weak power was bound, and one of greater force remained prisoner while more research was to be done. In the Elder's, the heritage of Gul'dan is the Fel they draw from destruction and souls. I do believe that Neeru said that one did a ritual in which they saw the Twisting Nether, the power offered by the Fel, and claim it. That is the way the Orcs of the Burning Blade currently approach the Fel, seeing the raw Universal entropy that links the Worlds together in the black. The destruction spread by the Legion as it converts souls/ arcane energy into Fel. No wonder the first step is to shove Fel energy/torture magical creatures to try and make more Fel. That is the whole tradition given by the Legion to the orcs through Gul'dan. But it is not all there is to Fel, just like how Draenor and Azeroth have different elemental natures.
Grok was drawing from a tradition from a planet where the elementals were peaceful and overflowing with power. Grok's current people live on a planet where elementals are bound to their own planes, and feud between themselves for magical power. His people got there via portal conveniently powered by a magic of an opposed nature to the elements, and caused a ruckus. Thus, there is quite alot to bridge. In quite a literal way, his own failures to bridge that gap almost lost the day for his people at a pivotal moment as the captured stone elemental broke free and rallied to its kin. That would give anyone quite alot of guilt over being unworthy for the mantel they are trying to claim. Its made worse by his failure to apply scraps of a modest shamanistic tradition from another world being overshone by the works of orcs whos actual actions disgust a more empathetic individual. There are ways to wield a Platonic force of Unraveling beyond simply flaying the flesh from things, physical or spiritual. But the Legion needed dumb weapons, so dumb weapons they formed of the Orcs.
So its a fun challange posed to the young orc. What does he make of his future, and how will it help the future of his people? He has already turned down that poor way of approaching the Fel, and he has the temporal clout to have orc hours sunk into investigating other ways to use that sword with a proper hilt. There is already diplomatic connection happening with a Light wielder. Can Grok touch upon that too, or at least help find some orcs who take to those traditions? It remains to be seen. As i said in an earlier post, if there was a place to meet elementals who would pact with Grok, the plaguelands would be it. Even if not, it will be interesting seeing how he goes over those thoughts. Its a short jump from wondering about how life would be different as a Blackrock, to connecting it back to the trauma /wondering if he had tried the Sapa with a Wall or other constructed building.
However, I think he is set up to overcome these troubles well. Standing up to Thrall and demarcating his own loyalty to Clan, it allows him to slowly develop as a counter weight to Thrall's vision of Orcs, their heritage, and their magical traditions. If he can win over the Burning Blade and Neeru to a more constructive worldview/ add better quality of leadership to the Horde at large, that is one huge win towards keeping the Horde and Alliance from spiraling into wars when there are other bigger threats to face. Grok knows about the Legion, but the Old God's are real spooky too. Thanks for writing such a compelling character study FD! I haven't had good cause to get back in a large way into Warcraft nonsense for years, and I'm enjoying the thought experiments alot.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Few notes
World souls are meant to be baby titans and as such are really rare. Only like 3 in the series rare (aside from presumably the already born titans.) Argus, the unnamed one that Sargarus destroys and Azeroth.
In short the normal thing on Azeroth is not the norm for the majority of existence even before the Old Gods are factored into the mix.
I certainly agree there are dichotomies, but reality and thus elemental magic isn't made up of only arcane magic.
Arcane magic is affiliated with earth and water
Life is affiliated with spirit and water
Light is affiliated with spirit and fire
Fel is affiliated with fire and air
Death is affiliated with air and decay
Void is affiliated with Decay and earth
My assumption would be that where those two forces mix they create the resulting elemental energy and combine in turn to create the respective element which then combine further to create existence*
*Also note that in this chart Grok's greatest affinity is for the Light, since his strongest affinity is Fire and his natural affinity is spirit.
The elements are primary in a sense. If the above are the "purest" categories of magic, elemental magic occurs when they mix together, and past that is simply reality, with the elements forming the building blocks.
The lore gets a bit weird, but essentially Draenors element of life/spirit was over abundant. The element of life is also what calms normal elementals down and Azeroth's comparative lack of it due to its world spirit is one of the reasons Azeroth elementals have zero chill.
Yep. Mechanically I believe it was represented by a bonus to connection strength rolls and it seems to be a mix of cultural and personality factors. Possibly some spiritual ones too.
Actually the orcs thing in general is that they take to magic of any kind. They're very strongly influenced by magic if its in their system, however elemental magic was of course what was most prevalent on Draenor, at least amongst them. Not the only one of course though and most creatures descended from Gron seem to share this affinity for magic, which is unsurprising considering they came from a vast elemental giant that had absorbed obscene amounts of life power and was created from the power of a Titan.
Seemingly not, Thrall's seemingly more pissed at the Burning Blade's traitorous impulses than the daemon stuff. He's not personally a fan of em, but he's not going to go Doomhammer on em.
He had a strong connection to fire elementals, but it was also a weak elemental that he overwhelmed. I think it also represents more being able to get into the mind set of the elemental as well as how easily you can contact them to begin with.
mmm. Not quite. Near as I understood it, the Kolkar going from "skirmishes" to "throwing entire civilisation at them" was far from expected, they came for us because we attacked their forces and captured some which was the straw that broke the camels back and summoning Forneas was significantly more than expected. Magic WMDs aren't unheard of in this world, but what the Kolkar did is seemingly only one step below what the Dark Iron dwarves did when they summoned Ragnaros, and the effects on the environment have been...well I'd say that Ragnaros did proportionally more damage.
Alright I dunno if Fractious is doing the whole world soul thing, but a few notes.
World souls are meant to be baby titans and as such are really rare. Only like 3 in the series rare (aside from presumably the already born titans.) Argus, the unnamed one that Sargarus destroys and Azeroth.
In short the normal thing on Azeroth is not the norm for the majority of existence even before the Old Gods are factored into the mix.
I certainly agree there are dichotomies, but reality and thus elemental magic isn't made up of only arcane magic.
Arcane magic is affiliated with earth and water
Life is affiliated with spirit and water
Light is affiliated with spirit and fire
Fel is affiliated with fire and air
Death is affiliated with air and decay
Void is affiliated with Decay and earth
My assumption would be that where those two forces mix they create the resulting elemental energy and combine in turn to create the respective element which then combine further to create existence*
*Also note that in this chart Grok's greatest affinity is for the Light, since his strongest affinity is Fire and his natural affinity is spirit.
It doesn't. The twisting nether is a sub-dimension (a fel subdimension) under the Great Dark Beyond (which is literally just space). The twisting nether is more akin to the warp from 40K and there seems to be implications that every force has a realm like it. The main reason the it can be said to own the area between them is that with the exception of the Naaru nobody else seems to have space ships.
Me being pedantic, but killing world souls so the Void Lords could not corrupt them and by extension killing all of life anyway just to be on the safe side because he figured that it was better to destroy all of existence and hopefully the Void Lords with em instead of risking them successfully corrupting one.
mmm...thing is Grok's situation is a even more complicated, because his shamanistic tradition is fundamentally similar to that of how his clan does Fel, in fact that maybe part of why they took to it so well. It is "dark" shamanism, and the only shamen willing to really talk to him seriously about it were others like him. In this case its not a failure to apply the scraps of knowledge, its also a failure to realise that perhaps enslaving the massive stone giant is a bad idea, while also being an apt demonstration of why these things explode in ones face.
HEAR HEAR!
- Location
- United Kingdom
Will weigh in on these later at some point but thanks both