Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)

Honestly im more intrested on how you think the orcs would take to the arcane, specially how would interact with being a blademaster. An thing that would likely be more popular between orcs.
They wouldn't be predisposed to it in the same way some other races are, but I don't think there would be as significant issues as with the Light. In theory, you could just tell the Kirin Tor to do some training and end up with some mage orcs at the end. Arcane magic is pretty chill in this regard, and the Orcs might even like it if they publicised that they're actually made from arcane magic via the Titans originally.
though does the strife in the Alliance mean it's a prime opportunity for us to gain leverage, or that it's a mess that isn't worth our time?
Is for you to discuss lol, but yes in theory you could indeed help out a lot. Gilneas is having lots of problems now, if you could manage to help them out they'd be willing to provide you with a lot in return, for example perhaps their skill in gunsmithing.
So seize the opportunity and be as a political animal that would surprise Danrothan, Feldad and Katrana Prestor in being out maneuvered is also an option? You have links with the dwarves make use of it as a start.
To note that Grok isn't stupid. He's not necessarily politically educated, but if he worked out what he actually wanted and had conversations wtih people, he would have the capacity to be a reasonable politician. Perhaps never an extraordinary one, given his inability to compromise his honour, but certainly a capable one.
We lack the numbers and the supply chain to do anything meaningful in Northrend save die. I'm not saying we can't go in the future, just that trying to do it as we are now is suicide.
Assume that each option is indeed possible rather than that you're just going to walk up to the wrathgate and die. We're still relatively early in the timeline, the Lich King hasn't fully woken up yet, KT has just retreated back to Northrend, they're still building most of their necropoli. You'd be the expeditionary force, you'd be also looking around, doing some diplo maybe, various things.
but it would also be so very boring to play and read.
I can see that concern, so happy to take suggestions as to how it might work. Yes it might be less interesting than a war arc, but you'd have the opportunities to get involved in military things too.
What do we currently know of the remaining orcs on the continent and their leadership?
What Grok knows and what we might know is obviously differnet, but generally speaking:

  • Horde settlements, usually expeditionary forces under Kor'kron commanders in Hammerfall, Stonard, Grom'gol, Reaventusk and New Kargath. These are there to project power and monitor certain points of interest. For example, Stonard is there to keep an eye on the Dark Portal.
  • Dragonmaw clan, with settlements in northern Khaz Modan and are just sort of about, they're not doing anything in particular.
  • Dark Horde settlements, centred on Blackrock Mountain and led by teh Blackrock clan, but also integrating other forces like Neferians black dragons.
  • Fel orc clans, probably fairly small and fairly insane, hanging around the Dark Portal
  • Bleeding Hollow clan, the Eastern Kingdoms half who stayed in Stranglethorn to live there because it reminded them of home.

There will also be groups which don't necessarily fall into these categories as strictly. For example, there are clans in the hills and mountains around Lordaeron don't necessarily belong to either the normal Horde or Dark Horde, but who both groups compete over. These will be minor clans, no more than a few hundred individuals. You've been round gathering some of them up and recruiting them, but there'll probably be more in other areas. Similarly, there'll probably be more such orcs in places like Redridge who again don't specifically owe alliegance to the Dark Horde, but who still are influenced by them and have ties to them.

In terms of Vark's ideas, he sees things more through the lens of the existing power structures. He would suggest walking up to Blackrock Mountain and declaring the Mak'gora. That is something you could indeed do, but you'd have to do it with your warriors with you, otherwise they could reasonably say 'you dont have any army clearly you dont have the proper rank to challenge'. And the only way the dwarves will let you march an army through their land is if you work for the alliance.

This would also require some sort of political ideal though. What does Grok stand for? What alternate vision does he have for the Orcish people? If he took Blackrock Spire, what woudl he do then?

Vark, as observed previously, doesn't necessariyl think in these terms, and he's aware of that weakness. He's a very direct guy and he can understand that neither the Dark nor normal Horde's politcial settlements are acceptable as they are, but he's not the sort of guy to have a grand strategic plan or political philosophy to acheive such a thing.
 
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Interesting. I always like these moments where the gears of the world go on:wink:. It reminds me a bit of CK2 (or Total War: Warhammer's turns)

The future of the Orc people hangs in balance in the transformation, and so does the world. I would vote for multiple alternatives, maybe I'll remove some later:

[X] Rule in Alterac
Trying to build Alterac and to get a place in the continent, with the Alliance so much in disarray, seems interesting.

[ ] End of Exile? Check on Desolace and Neeru first.
[X] Confrontation in Desolace.
If the current trend continues, Thrall will be deposed and Neeru Fireblade will become the new Warchierlf. What does he stand for? What has he been doing? Where will this lead the Orcish people?

[]Take to the Sea?
Nah, we have more interesting things to do that "yet more mercenary work".
[ ] Into the Cold?
No, that is the final boss level, it must come later.

[X] Write-in: Gilneas
Gilneas is having lots of problems now, if you could manage to help them out they'd be willing to provide you with a lot in return
They have lots of monsters running around, occupying their land. We could help them liberate it and then settle in a part of it, thus having an alternate base that does not deal with devious Alliance (and Black Dragon) politics as much as Alterac.
 
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okay to sum up the situation in the eastern kingdoms, you have us in alterac as the main military power, kul taras doesn't have a clear leader guessing janias mother hasn't had enough time to gain the influence since her husbands death,

we don't if saidian really has calia or if he is just using the fact that she isn't in the public eye to give him power and he controls the crusade which is becoming more and more human centric and if not for all the major help we did most likely try to kill us.

stormwind is weak cause of its corruption and bolivar is dead leaving lady prestor as the true power (which otc gives neferian the dark horde and onyxia stormwind) stormgrade is lead by galen and all I can say is almost anyone would be better then him.

bronzebeard clan is not at its strongest with magni brother missing and his daughter getting kidnapped by the dark iron who he cant really get to without getting through the dark horde and has the gnome being invaded by grogg yet
and gilinas has a wolf problem and genns dead which is probably the best thing he could do this early in the story
 
[X] Rule in Alterac
Alright I think the perspective of Grok ruling Alterac will be as much hilarious than badass. I love the idea of him learning statecraft and defending his new territory. Also, it will give him the occasion to think more about the roles and capacities of orcs.

[X] Confrontation in Desolace

On the other hand I'm worry about feldad shaenigans.
 
@FractiousDay can going to Desolace be a temporary thing before Grok can go back to Alterac?

There's a lot Grok can do with Feldad not to mention offloading him elements of the Demonsword clan or getting more additions to the warband before going back.
 
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I can see that concern, so happy to take suggestions as to how it might work.
I would say treat as a training arc, Im not that familiar with azeroth but we probably would want a local crisis, between training his army dealing with diplomacy and the new nominal queen of the land theres enough to keep Gork ocupied, but mostly is how he train the troops and firect the nascent faction's culture while make sure everyone is well fed, drilled and equiped.
 
I realized a moment ago that (at least according to the rumor mill) people are seeing the Alliance Leadership untested at this time.
Right as Thrall decides to Do A Thrall and go play Orc Shaman Hippy, and the Night Elves then managing to push the Horde so far he had to order the Warsong to abandon Ashenvale.

Just as the Alliance 'should be' the weakest, he jumps out of his leadership pedestal and lets things to escalate into a fail.
What I'm saying is that Thrall continues to blunder from one failure to another.

Not looking good, chief.
 
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Thrall decides to Do A Thrall and go play Orc Shaman Hippy
Forneus depowering the shamans would do that. An interesting metaphor if only to see things from a different point of view. Suppose if Feldad or someone else managed to stop Forneus without using the fel, there'd still be some problems if only because shamanism is a very old tradition but recently revived only to see it competing with another profession perhaps in the arcane or the light.
 
Arcane and the light seem like far more stable fonts of magic. Twice now we've seen shamanism fails because the elements were blocked by the their own design or another's. I'm not saying shamanism doesn't have it's uses but entirely relying on it seems to be a recipe for disaster.
 
Arcane and the light seem like far more stable fonts of magic. Twice now we've seen shamanism fails because the elements were blocked by the their own design or another's. I'm not saying shamanism doesn't have it's uses but entirely relying on it seems to be a recipe for disaster.
To be fair if there was a way to cut off arcane or the fel the same metaphor would still stand.

The horde just had really bad luck that day.

And speaking of it, Feldad just keeps on winning. He wins against Forneus boosting his cred at personal cost and he did so once again against the Quillboars and in the political arena because of Drek Thar.

While Drek Thar and Thrall have their fears, they should like I dunno making sure their own powers can compete?

Of course it's more complex than that as Thrall is doing that and even then what he finds may put Grok in a personal dilemma if the Forneus plot is more than it seems but that's up to Grok meeting Jubeithos to find out why he did it.
 
It reminds me a bit of CK2 (or Total War: Warhammer's turns)
Indeed, to an extent though. In CK2 you're always trying to do dynastic struggle, in TW you're always trying to take territory. You have basically fixed paths to power in those games. I might compare with EU4 for example, where you can indeed just conquer everyone, but you can also play trade, colonisation, dynastic stuff, diplo, that sort of thing. Or maybe Civ too.
If the current trend continues, Thrall will be deposed and Neeru Fireblade will become the new Warchierlf. What does he stand for? What has he been doing? Where will this lead the Orcish people?
Probably not Neeru, if Thrall stepped down though you might see Saurfang acclaimed as a compromise candidate. He's more aggressive than Thrall, but less extreme than Neeru. As for Neeru's politics, he's an orcish supremacist, he's fine with the Fel obviously, he's got an expansionist foreign policy, and he may or may not be working for the Burning Legion.
[ ] Into the Cold?
No, that is the final boss level, it must come later.
Much later. Would note it's not the boss level, it's more like the attunemnet querst to even get to the boss. You'd be expeditionary, you'd be scouting, mapping, making allies, maybe doing military stuff too, but you're not just going to run for Icecrown.
[X] Write-in: Gilneas
They have lots of monsters running around, occupying their land. We could help them liberate it and then settle in a part of it, thus having an alternate base that does not deal with devious Alliance (and Black Dragon) politics as much as Alterac.
Would probably say no to this one I think. In theory, I might be ok if you were to get involved in Emerald Dream stuff, but it's somewhat too local. You could help the Gilneans by ruling in Alterac and just sending 2000 orcs for example, which you could potentially lead.
okay to sum up the situation in the eastern kingdoms, you have us in alterac as the main military power, kul taras doesn't have a clear leader guessing janias mother hasn't had enough time to gain the influence since her husbands death,

we don't if saidian really has calia or if he is just using the fact that she isn't in the public eye to give him power and he controls the crusade which is becoming more and more human centric and if not for all the major help we did most likely try to kill us.
Basically, but would make a point that the main military power is definitely the Scarlets. The Dwarves are doign fine but are moderately isolatoinist, but Dathrohan is certainly the strongest land power now, though perhaps not yet a naval power, he relies on his influence iwth the Kul Tirans for that. You have at most 4000 Orcs currently, and if you pulled in all the orcs aroun dyou you could get to 7or 8k. However Dathrohan has easily a force of veteran troops of at least 30k, with various magical support you dont have and artillery, that sort of thing.
@FractiousDay can going to Desolace be a temporary thing before Grok can go back to Alterac?
I'd like to reduce the amount of goign back and forth to preserve the purity of the choices. In this instance, lets say its a 1 way portal that can only be activated once etc.
Just as the Alliance 'should be' the weakest, he jumps out of his leadership pedestal and lets things to escalate into a fail.
One issue there is taht he wouldn't necessarily be inclined to go on the offensive anyway. Even if he did, with what force would he do so? That sort of thing is also important. In theory this would be a reasonable time to jump Theramore and the Kul Tiran colonies, but are the Horde even prepared for that? Under Thrall, no. Feldad has been able to achieve such victories partly because he's been able to gather a relatively small force of very powerful people. He's got a core of warriors sure, but then hes got warlocks summoning demons and blademasters doing flips and stuff, he doesn't need a big logistics train for that
 
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just a reminder the horde isn't a naval power cause they have none they mostly buy that stuff from goblins so even if the horde wasn't having its own internal problems it couldn't even if the warchief wanted to get involved with the alliance (theirs a reason the kul tirans are still able to get close to horde territory)
 
[X] Confrontation in Desolace

I'm in agreement, we have trust in our father but we know there is a bigger picture we are not seeing - if there ever is a time to investigate before getting bogged down in other obligations, now is the time
 
[X] Rule in Alterac

Probably not Neeru, if Thrall stepped down though you might see Saurfang acclaimed as a compromise candidate. He's more aggressive than Thrall, but less extreme than Neeru. As for Neeru's politics, he's an orcish supremacist, he's fine with the Fel obviously, he's got an expansionist foreign policy, and he may or may not be working for the Burning Legion.


One issue there is taht he wouldn't necessarily be inclined to go on the offensive anyway. Even if he did, with what force would he do so? That sort of thing is also important. In theory this would be a reasonable time to jump Theramore and the Kul Tiran colonies, but are the Horde even prepared for that? Under Thrall, no. Feldad has been able to achieve such victories partly because he's been able to gather a relatively small force of very powerful people. He's got a core of warriors sure, but then hes got warlocks summoning demons and blademasters doing flips and stuff, he doesn't need a big logistics train for that

Given how much Thrall seems to be on the outs and even not doing the actual, what would a Warchief Saurfang, or even Neeru look like in say the first six months, or so? How would ether work with the Tauran, Darkspears, and Forskane? Or even dealing with Theramore and the Kul Tiran colonies? Or the Alliance itself?
 
em a saurfang as warchief that would be interesting since unlike thrall saurfang knows what things were like on dreanor before the horde and unlike thrall witnessed and knows how horrible the things are (High Overlord Saurfang says: The winter after the curse was lifted, hundreds of veteran orcs like me were lost to despair. High Overlord Saurfang says: His act could not erase the horrors we committed,. this implies to me saurfang doesn't stright blame warlocks and in bfa he says blackhands bloody legacy) but as we know saurfang can give up hope in the horde. but saurfang is mostly in thrall camp so apart from being a bit more aggressive cant imagine to much of a difference
 
[X] Rule in Alterac

Besides straight up taking over the Horde this offers us the most ability to change things for the better. With the current weakness of the alliance we have a real chance to break into the upper echelons of Alliance society and change things for the better, make a stable place for orcs to live, and maybe even care out a larger kingdom for our people.
 
em a saurfang as warchief that would be interesting since unlike thrall saurfang knows what things were like on dreanor before the horde and unlike thrall witnessed and knows how horrible the things are (High Overlord Saurfang says: The winter after the curse was lifted, hundreds of veteran orcs like me were lost to despair. High Overlord Saurfang says: His act could not erase the horrors we committed,. this implies to me saurfang doesn't stright blame warlocks and in bfa he says blackhands bloody legacy) but as we know saurfang can give up hope in the horde. but saurfang is mostly in thrall camp so apart from being a bit more aggressive cant imagine to much of a difference

He has his work cut out for him. Orgrimmar is still rebuilding, the Horde just been kicked out of Ashenvale outright, the Burning Blade is on the up along with the friendship of the Forsaken. All while the Alliance itself is at odds with itself and the Zandalari are making moves, and this Trade War and the Scourge is making moves on their own.
 
To be fair if there was a way to cut off arcane or the fel the same metaphor would still stand.

The horde just had really bad luck that day.

And speaking of it, Feldad just keeps on winning. He wins against Forneus boosting his cred at personal cost and he did so once again against the Quillboars and in the political arena because of Drek Thar.

While Drek Thar and Thrall have their fears, they should like I dunno making sure their own powers can compete?

Of course it's more complex than that as Thrall is doing that and even then what he finds may put Grok in a personal dilemma if the Forneus plot is more than it seems but that's up to Grok meeting Jubeithos to find out why he did it.
Well that's my whole point though. It seems that shamanism is a very volatile unreliable magic. The elements are routinely shown to be manipulated into frenzy, being cut off from their supplements, or just outright betraying those who engage with them. Far more so than the other forms of magic.

Now I'm not saying that doesn't happen with the others but it just seems to happen far less. Honestly I can sort of see why civilisations just say fuck shamanism because as important as it is to the natural world it really isn't something that you can actually rely on.
 
Will address the warchief points in an infopost, but to do these

horde isn't a naval power
Indeed, Orcs don't even like swimming or the water generally. Possibly they have poor bouyancy because they're made of rocks?

eal chance to break into the upper echelons of Alliance society and change things for the better, make a stable place for orcs to live, and maybe even care out a larger kingdom for our people.
Indeed, this would be a distinct opportunity. What you might want and how you might do it would be up for discussion.

The idea of trading merc work for either tech or goodwill is certainly one idea, but that may not resolve the problem more generally.
 
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