I think we have enough reward dice and Hamingja modifiers at this point that @Imperial Fister can just average them out and skip the rolls.

...How do Christians get Training Dice-equivalents anyway?
 
I think we have enough reward dice and Hamingja modifiers at this point that @Imperial Fister can just average them out and skip the rolls.

If I'm correct that all adults have Hamingja 4+, and Imperial Fister does indeed give CedeTheBees 3 Reward dice for the awesome art and one per poem, there should indeed be no rolls needed as everyone survives even on a 1.

...How do Christians get Training Dice-equivalents anyway?

Probably training, just like we do. They don't have Hamingja, but there's surely some equivalent stat and they use that and bonuses from training with people and any other aids they may possess.
 
Anyway, Odr/Cultivation-experiments:

1) Try and infuse Odr into a plant seed, or fertilized animal egg, or animal that's getting pregnant. This would be a very good test of 'what happens if we put Odr into unborn children'. (Try it on something expendable first!)
2) Try and grow a plant in realspace using Odr. Preferred candidate: An Ash Tree. (Also an Ash Tree would be a good Seed for our Soulscape, humans come from Ash Trees IIRC.)
3) Try and weave Odr into like a toy, and see what happens. Specifically, when Halla is weaving a toy (like a bear or owl toy), also weave Odr into it simultaneously.
4) (When we get Shapecrafting) - Infuse Odr into something else's attributes. Start with an animal, those are expendable.
5) (When we get Seidr) - Try and '''awaken''' an animal using our own Odr into their '''soulscape'''.

IMO a bunch of these will be a 'waste' of Odr, but will be informative even so.
 
Have we tried to infuse Odr into our hugareida (such as Standstill or Ignition) or our muna? Especially our kuna, since they were likened to Daos when Imperial was questioned about them, and yet they don't seem to have nearly as much importance as Daos do in Chinese cultivation. Admittedly, I might just be expecting too much from them, but it still feels like something we should try eventually.

Another suggestion I've got is if we can make some sort of AoE explosion centred on ourself with Ignition? Something that would let us go 'fuck up everything around me' if we ever found ourselves surrounded or needed a momentary lull in a fight to recuperate ourselves - like the priest's giant AoE flashbang - since we do have Frenzy now.

Also, @CedeTheBees, that art was really good! I've found myself impressed by every artwork you've put out.

Side note - Hallotta is Kurt Frogtongue's kid, right? I recall his wife being pregnant, but I don't recall her actually giving birth. When did that happen?
 
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Have we tried to infuse Odr into our hugareida (such as Standstill or Ignition) or our muna? Especially our kuna, since they were likened to Daos when Imperial was questioned about them, and yet they don't seem to have nearly as much importance as Daos do in Chinese cultivation. Admittedly, I might just be expecting too much from them, but it still feels like something we should try eventually.

Also, @CedeTheBees, that art was really good! I've found myself impressed by every artwork you've put out.

Side note - Hallotta is Kurt Frogtongue's kid, right? I recall his wife being pregnant, but I don't recall her actually giving birth. When did that happen?

About the same time the Murderkittens showed up.

Anyway, wasn't able to sleep, and I've had way too much of it in general the past few days, I'm going to update The Call to Action.
 
Anyway, Odr/Cultivation-experiments:

1) Try and infuse Odr into a plant seed, or fertilized animal egg, or animal that's getting pregnant. This would be a very good test of 'what happens if we put Odr into unborn children'. (Try it on something expendable first!)
2) Try and grow a plant in realspace using Odr. Preferred candidate: An Ash Tree. (Also an Ash Tree would be a good Seed for our Soulscape, humans come from Ash Trees IIRC.)
3) Try and weave Odr into like a toy, and see what happens. Specifically, when Halla is weaving a toy (like a bear or owl toy), also weave Odr into it simultaneously.
4) (When we get Shapecrafting) - Infuse Odr into something else's attributes. Start with an animal, those are expendable.
5) (When we get Seidr) - Try and '''awaken''' an animal using our own Odr into their '''soulscape'''.

IMO a bunch of these will be a 'waste' of Odr, but will be informative even so.
Learn mead making, get the tools and ingredients into soulscape.
Make mead with Honey and Odr.
 
Anyway, Odr/Cultivation-experiments:

1) Try and infuse Odr into a plant seed, or fertilized animal egg, or animal that's getting pregnant. This would be a very good test of 'what happens if we put Odr into unborn children'. (Try it on something expendable first!)
2) Try and grow a plant in realspace using Odr. Preferred candidate: An Ash Tree. (Also an Ash Tree would be a good Seed for our Soulscape, humans come from Ash Trees IIRC.)
3) Try and weave Odr into like a toy, and see what happens. Specifically, when Halla is weaving a toy (like a bear or owl toy), also weave Odr into it simultaneously.
4) (When we get Shapecrafting) - Infuse Odr into something else's attributes. Start with an animal, those are expendable.
5) (When we get Seidr) - Try and '''awaken''' an animal using our own Odr into their '''soulscape'''.

IMO a bunch of these will be a 'waste' of Odr, but will be informative even so.

The first three seem good, though maybe not next turn...I think we need to see if we can split Standstill and thus use IAT and/or Mire Ward at the same time as Halting Vortex more urgently than anything else.

Have we tried to infuse Odr into our hugareida (such as Standstill or Ignition) or our muna? Especially our kuna, since they were likened to Daos when Imperial was questioned about them, and yet they don't seem to have nearly as much importance as Daos do in Chinese cultivation. Admittedly, I might just be expecting too much from them, but it still feels like something we should try eventually.

They're more like Dao Insights...specific moments that give you new insight or power. They match up with those fairly well, but we could try this at some point, yes.

Side note - Hallotta is Kurt Frogtongue's kid, right? I recall his wife being pregnant, but I don't recall her actually giving birth. When did that happen?

As Alectai says, around when our first kids were born, she and Halla were pregnant at the same time.

Anyway, wasn't able to sleep, and I've had way too much of it in general the past few days, I'm going to update The Call to Action.

I sort of did the hypothetical version of that already.
 
Yeah, I think we're going to be okay, everything needs to be graded still, but we're pretty close to getting a clean sweep where Nobody Dies and the Enemy pays a decent amount for no serious in universe gain.

The question is how we're going to retaliate for this.
 
Yeah, I think we're going to be okay, everything needs to be graded still, but we're pretty close to getting a clean sweep where Nobody Dies and the Enemy pays a decent amount for no serious in universe gain.

The question is how we're going to retaliate for this.

I'm tempted to hold a Cultivation Class but that's probably a bad idea all things considered.

How do you get a kenning like Frogtongue, anyways?

What kind of power is that?

Nah, he just actually has a big tongue. Like, not inhumanly but it was described as notably large. Like calling a big-eared guy 'Elephant-Ears'.
 
Huh…

seems like a prick move to call him out on it, but alright.

I mean, we didn't give it to him and probably mostly just call him Kurt, but when we received a physical description of him, well, it was notable enough to be the main feature mentioned. It is not unclear where he got the name. Like Sirrocco says maybe he's cool with it for one reason or another?
 
Yeah, the real issue is if this whole gambit was all about pissing us off into creating an opening where it can justify a more aggressive response at a reduced cost.

I'm wondering if we should start exploring a way to 'Write this down'. Except all of the 'Reasonable' loopholes have been closed long ago by The Enemy. I certainly don't think we can just write something down and that being a silver bullet to avoid its interference. The other issue is that apparently the Enemy has nearly perfect knowledge of everyone involved--presumably the only thing it doesn't know is our thoughts. It probably doesn't consider the Blackhand thing to be a serious issue, assuming it even knows (We did our reveal to Abjorn before we showed up on the Enemy's Radar, so it might not have noticed, and I don't think it's omniscient or there would be no hope at all). By all indications, the only thing is doesn't know are meta level things--things that are only known by us outside of the 'Written World', like how Charred Soul works, and how Reward Dice meddle with things.

I almost feel like we have to treat the Enemy like Ruin from Mistborn, where you just can't trust anything that isn't carved into metal, because anything less he can freely change to suit his overall agenda. Except I don't even think that'll be a silver bullet either, because someone would have thought about carving instructions down, and clearly that didn't work out for them either.

There has to be a way to beat it, the problem is that we don't even know the limits of its information gathering ability and capacity to deploy agents. Only that those are 'Lots" and "Effectively arbitrary if it feels threatened enough." There's a Cost it apparently has to reckon with before it makes a Move, but that cost doesn't seem to be something beyond its ability to pay when it needs to, as we saw when it just absolutely raped causality to drop a murderball right on top of Hallr before he could make his Critical Move.

That's another point, if the Enemy is seemingly all knowing and nearly all malevolent, how did Hallr manage to get as close to changing the game as he did? Where he achieved True Cultivation and was moving towards a... Not a Wincon but doing appreciable damage, and the Enemy only did its Absolute Bullshit at the last minute?

More importantly, what has everyone else done that the Norse haven't? Because apparently everyone's had to reckon with the Enemy or some avatar of it at some point, but everyone else seems to have beaten or suppressed it, and it's only the Norse who are currently under its yoke at present. Was it just that it didn't put its full attention on fucking with them because it was focused on us in particular? (In which case, why is it that it was willing to allow other cultures to grow to the point where it could no longer manipulate them, but absolutely does not tolerate the slightest step forward for us?) Or did they all Do Something to effectively cast the Enemy's influence out--something that the Norse have never achieved because... Uh, reasons.

We know that it seems to have an affinity for Steel--certainly, it's fond of using Steelfathers as its enforcers and beatsticks, and Steel in this setting is hella cursed, to a point where it predates the Norse culture in general. But is this actually the Enemy's doing or is this just something related that it's taking advantage of?
 
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How do you get a kenning like Frogtongue, anyways?

What kind of power is that?

Honestly, Frogtongue doesn't sound like a good thing. I wonder how a negative Kenning would affect a person, or if they're even a thing.

They're more like Dao Insights...specific moments that give you new insight or power. They match up with those fairly well, but we could try this at some point, yes.

Yeah, that's the vibe I got too. I just want to see if we can expand on that insight.

I wonder - Norse society seems to place great importance on the idea of leaving a legacy/saga behind. Would a muna be the equivalent of one of those 'This is important to the story!'/'This will have a big impact on our main character!' moments? Like, I know we were given the option to change the name of our cultivation stage, but the default name of it was Saga Establishment. This is probably a big reach, but could we do something with our muna (or twists, since they seem to also occupy a similar role, although I believe muna have more importance/weight in the greater scheme of things) to further our cultivation?
 
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I'm wondering if we should start exploring a way to 'Write this down'. Except all of the 'Reasonable' loopholes have been closed long ago by The Enemy. I certainly don't think we can just write something down and that being a silver bullet to avoid its interference. The other issue is that apparently the Enemy has nearly perfect knowledge of everyone involved--presumably the only thing it doesn't know is our thoughts. It probably doesn't consider the Blackhand thing to be a serious issue, assuming it even knows (We did our reveal to Abjorn before we showed up on the Enemy's Radar, so it might not have noticed, and I don't think it's omniscient or there would be no hope at all). By all indications, the only thing is doesn't know are meta level things--things that are only known by us outside of the 'Written World', like how Charred Soul works, and how Reward Dice meddle with things.

I think this may be giving the Enemy's knowledge too much credit. Since the Foemen are physical and can talk, there's no need for weird explanations of how it knows we were on a walk in the woods (they were lurking in the woods waiting), and nothing else it seems to know wasn't covered by either 'stuff people could known asking around Asvir or watching us from the woods' or 'Real Cultivation Stuff'. Like, it can clearly tell when we trigger one of its traps, at least to some degree (it can feel the ripples in the aether or something), but beyond that it hasn't actually shown a supernatural degree of knowledge.

I wonder - Norse society seems to place grrat importance on the idea of leaving a legacy/saga behind. Would a muna be the equivalent of one of those 'This is important to the story!'/'This will have a big impact on our main character!' moments? Like, I know we were given the option to change the name of our cultivation stage, but the default name of it was Saga Establishment. This is probably a big reach, but could we do something with our muna (or twists, since they seem to also occupy a similar role, although I believe muna have more importance/weight in the greater scheme of things) to further our cultivation?

I think that's definitely the right way to be thinking, and seeing if we can lean into our Muna and what they mean is valid.

I'm less positive Odr can even interact with them, though...so far, Odr can interact with the same things as Orthstirr (albeit in different ways sometimes) and that can't interact with Hugareida or Muna directly at all. I'm up for trying it at some point, but I suspect it won't work or will be potentially risky if it does, so I think we should put that one off a bit.
 
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The Norns also seem to exist outside the Written World at any rate.

Notably time was stopped when Thor visited us. Weirdly we didn't notice any.. causality fuckups when the Enemy attacked this time around. Do they exist within or outside the Written World?
 
The Norns also seem to exist outside the Written World at any rate.

Notably time was stopped when Thor visited us. Weirdly we didn't notice any.. causality fuckups when the Enemy attacked this time around. Do they exist within or outside the Written World?

The Causality Fuckups only seem to be detectable if someone notices the discrepancy. If nobody notices, there are no signs that it happened.

It's only when someone questions "Wait, what happened here", that the manipulation crashes and the Fates have to come in to fix the snarl before it can spread further.
 
saw when it just absolutely raped causality to drop a murderball right on top of Hallr

Maybe Hallr fucked up somehow, and exposed himself to the enemy? Hallr himself doesn't actually remember what he was doing before he got jumped, so perhaps he just screwed up?

I think that's definitely the right way to be thinking, and seeing if we can lean into our Muna and what they mean is valid.

I'm less positive Odr can even interact with them, though...so far, Odr can interact with the same things as Orthstirr (albeit in different ways sometimes) and that can't interact with Hugareida or Muna directly at all. I'm up for trying it at some point, but I suspect it won't work or will be potentially risky if it does, so I think we should put that one off a bit.

That's fair. I was mostly rambling, but it would be cool to research our muna some day.
 
There's obviously some way to hide from its sight, but that seems to be one of the secrets Hallr lost when he paid the price he did to created Charred SOul.
 
It might tie into the mechanism The Enemy uses to 'see'. Like does it 'see' via Orthsirr? It likes eating Orthsirr (if our aspects being devoured is the enemy eating it). Or perhaps it 'sees' via Orthsirr expenditure? Does it 'see' what we do like how a reader 'sees' a character?

We also don't know what 'governs' how the Enemy gets resources. Is it wasted Orthsirr? Orthsirr of dead Norsemen? A static value?
 
There has to be a way to beat it, the problem is that we don't even know the limits of its information gathering ability and capacity to deploy agents. Only that those are 'Lots" and "Effectively arbitrary if it feels threatened enough." There's a Cost it apparently has to reckon with before it makes a Move, but that cost doesn't seem to be something beyond its ability to pay when it needs to, as we saw when it just absolutely raped causality to drop a murderball right on top of Hallr before he could make his Critical Move.

That's another point, if the Enemy is seemingly all knowing and nearly all malevolent, how did Hallr manage to get as close to changing the game as he did? Where he achieved True Cultivation and was moving towards a... Not a Wincon but doing appreciable damage, and the Enemy only did its Absolute Bullshit at the last minute?

I think evidence suggests it has very real limitations in terms of both information and what it can afford to send to deal with any particular threat, we just don't have a good way to gauge either very precisely, but I think overestimating the Enemy is as bad as underestimating it in many ways.

It's worth bearing in mind that whatever attack it sent this time would, on average, without Reward Dice involved, have failed utterly by reasonable and objective standards. With an average of less than a 10% chance of death and 12 people who might die, there would've been around one casualty on average (if it were actually 14% each as per the original post not counting Hamingja, that's still an average of less than two people dead) and odds were good they wouldn't even have been the ones we cared about most. Like, an attack that costs you six men and kills one enemy is a failure, and that's ignoring any losses they took there at the Farm.

We wouldn't have felt like the Enemy failed if it killed one of our kids, but realistically? That wouldn't have actually even slowed down our anti-Enemy efforts. It might have made us mad enough to make a mistake, but if the enemy is throwing that many resources at making us maybe make a mistake, it has problems.

More importantly, what has everyone else done that the Norse haven't? Because apparently everyone's had to reckon with the Enemy or some avatar of it at some point, but everyone else seems to have beaten or suppressed it, and it's only the Norse who are currently under its yoke at present. Was it just that it didn't put its full attention on fucking with them because it was focused on us in particular? (In which case, why is it that it was willing to allow other cultures to grow to the point where it could no longer manipulate them, but absolutely does not tolerate the slightest step forward for us?) Or did they all Do Something to effectively cast the Enemy's influence out--something that the Norse have never achieved because... Uh, reasons.

I wouldn't say we know this, actually. The Western European Christians seem to have thrown it off, and in context I doubt the Chinese or Byzantines are laboring under its yoke, but we have no clue about, well, anyone else.

We know that it seems to have an affinity for Steel--certainly, it's fond of using Steelfathers as its enforcers and beatsticks, and Steel in this setting is hella cursed, to a point where it predates the Norse culture in general. But is this actually the Enemy's doing or is this just something related that it's taking advantage of?

I'm not sure we do know that. We only know of one instance of it using Steelfathers as a beatstick, and they were the only option it had locally with even a prayer against Blackhand, so it would've done that even if it hated them. I suspect it is involved with the Curse of Steel as part of its 'anti-metal' and 'anti-civilization' thing, but we don't actually know that.
 
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The Steelfathers could have been a Horra situation, where they already had beef with Blackhand, and the Enemy just obfuscated the fact that they were preparing for an attack against him, rather than actually siccing the Steelfathers on him in the first place. Sort of like how Horra being related to nearly everyone in the valley was hidden from us. That seems like it'd be easier to do than straight up ordering/manipulating the Steelfathers into ganking Hallr.

Actually...

'Hey, Blackhand? Did you have any altercations with the Steelfathers before your untimely demise at their hand?"
 
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The Steelfathers could have been a Horra situation, where they already had beef with Blackhand, and the Enemy just obfuscated the fact that they were preparing for an attack against him, rather than actually siccing the Steelfathers on him in the first place. Sort of like how Horra being related to nearly everyone in the valley was hidden from us. That seems like it'd be easier to do than straight up ordering/manipulating the Steelfathers into ganking Hallr.

It doesn't sound like it. Blackhand doesn't like Steelfathers much, but by his accounting this group had no specific grudge he recalled.
 
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