Honestly, this might even already exist (maybe minus the Runes). There was an earlier discussion of the Varangian Guard and wondering how they could make Norsemen the equal or superior of knights (which they almost have to be able to do for that set up to work), and I did a little light reading on the Varangian Guard and the Byzantine Emperors provided them with armor...so magic armor designed for Norse Cultivation may well be an existing thing in-setting, if one that requires specific steps to get. That's just a theory, but an interesting one.

Might actually be a variant of Knightly Armor that's tied to the position, rather than the individual. Which means you don't get to take it home with you when you're done (But you probably get some very swank-ass prizes for your tour of duty, and probably a shitton of Orthstirr as well).

EDIT:

Also, you know, now that I think about it.

I wonder how much Gabriel's cultivation is being held back by having a shitty Rosary? I recall there's Quality levels involved with those too, and that he's been using one made of wooden beads lately.

He's helping us out a lot, maybe we should chat with Jerasmus and see if we can work together to replace it? Like, we don't know the Christian Magic involved, but we are a fair hand at a forge, and especially detail work. If he just needs someone to build the physical structure and can do whatever blessing or sanctifying is involved himself, that should be a nice thing to help him out for helping us out.

Yes, he took an oath to Fight Evil, but he's still helping us here instead of going home. That means something.
 
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Might actually be a variant of Knightly Armor that's tied to the position, rather than the individual. Which means you don't get to take it home with you when you're done (But you probably get some very swank-ass prizes for your tour of duty, and probably a shitton of Orthstirr as well).

If it follows history they did get to take them home, but it doesn't have to follow history perfectly. The Byzantines, however, don't use Knightly Cultivation (or indeed, any of the 'Christian' system we've run into so far), so it's almost certainly a completely different tech/magic base.

Also, you know, now that I think about it.

I wonder how much Gabriel's cultivation is being held back by having a shitty Rosary? I recall there's Quality levels involved with those too, and that he's been using one made of wooden beads lately.

He's helping us out a lot, maybe we should chat with Jerasmus and see if we can work together to replace it? Like, we don't know the Christian Magic involved, but we are a fair hand at a forge, and especially detail work. If he just needs someone to build the physical structure and can do whatever blessing or sanctifying is involved himself, that should be a nice thing to help him out for helping us out.

Yes, he took an oath to Fight Evil, but he's still helping us here instead of going home. That means something.

I suspect that even if this would be useful (which I'm not 100% on), having a pagan craft it would not be helpful. Like, I also want to help him out but I highly doubt we're qualified for this one. Like, I suspect anything Jerasmus made, even without much in the way of crafting skills, would be a lot better than something fancy made without Faith in the Christian God.
 
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so, I'm heading to the forge tomorrow, so it's gonna be a good day no matter what.

But you wanna know how it can be even better? If I come home to a bunch of questions to answer!

So lay 'em on me!
 
Sure, if it's a choice between that and death. I'm more than a bit skeptical we're gonna have that happen, though...with our current orthstirr, which will only go up, combats are already not gonna last long enough to even get close to that benchmark very often, and it becomes more and more unlikely as we grow in power. Like, if we're having 12 round combats, something has gone terribly wrong somewhere and we should likely flee rather than trying to fight on burning odr.
See, that I'll agree with... but there's a meaningful difference between "I'm very skeptical if the first is ever worth doing." and "I'm very skeptical that we'll ever hit a point where the first is worth doing."

No, because by everything we know they should work even without Odr and Odr is not replaceable...well, it is, but it's basically burning XP permanently weakening ourselves for the rest of our life for a temporary advantage. We shouldn't be doing that on anything where we're not sure it's both necessary and useful unless we're trying to figure out how it works, and we know how it works on Tricks already.
Okay. That's overselling it.

Our stats and skills are a hard cap on how much odr we can spend on permabuffs, and the rising costs create a degree of soft cap as well. Our inner garden forms a hard cap on how much odr we can spend on refreshing temporary effects (...and the effects we get there are... decent but not great?) I'm not saying that we should be actively looking for places to spend Odr on temp effects. We shouldn't... but we get something like ten points of this stuff a round, we're going to get more of it per round as our orthstirr rises, and the more of it we invest, the less valuable it becomes. This is a very valuable resource right now, because we have a whole bunch of cheap high-payoff investing to do, but it's not critically limited like you're suggesting it is. Eventually, we're going to hit a point where we want to keep around a reserve of 20+ points of the stuff in case a fight breaks out because the buffs might be worth it.
 
so, I'm heading to the forge tomorrow, so it's gonna be a good day no matter what.

But you wanna know how it can be even better? If I come home to a bunch of questions to answer!

So lay 'em on me!

I mean, we were just talking about it, but is developing a Norse version of Plate possible? Or are we just capped at Mail because Reasons and Aesthetic?
 
so, I'm heading to the forge tomorrow, so it's gonna be a good day no matter what.

But you wanna know how it can be even better? If I come home to a bunch of questions to answer!

So lay 'em on me!
Can we use odr on twists? Is there any way to test out "use Odr on punching up" under controlled circumstances? (I guess if we were sparring with Steinarr?)
 
Questions @Imperial Fister

How many bandits were at the Northern camp when we scouted it?

How do the Byzantines buff up the Varangian Guard to make them as scary as Knights and similar things? We were speculating armor, but it could be a lot of things.

Other Stuff:

See, that I'll agree with... but there's a meaningful difference between "I'm very skeptical if the first is ever worth doing." and "I'm very skeptical that we'll ever hit a point where the first is worth doing."

It's more that I almost never feel the need to put '...unless the other option is death.' on the end of 'This is never a good idea.' I feel like that usually goes without saying. Like, that's basically the only situation I feel that it's worth it (or the death of a friend or loved one, I suppose), and I don't usually feel the need to make that an explicit exception.

Okay. That's overselling it.

I don't think it is. No one point is gonna make a huge difference long term, but using it for the hell of it rapidly starts being meaningful reductions in our long term capabilities. I'm not saying we never use it, I'm saying using it 'just in case' on things where the 'just in case' probably doesn't matter sets a very bad precedent and will result in serious overuse.

Like, my whole paragraph her is in response to using it on a tactic that should work even without it. Basically throwing it on just in case some effect we've never seen before makes the tactic fail and that technique can be stopped by burning the Odr. I'm not commenting on using it in general here, but on doing so in very niche circumstances.

Our stats and skills are a hard cap on how much odr we can spend on permabuffs, and the rising costs create a degree of soft cap as well. Our inner garden forms a hard cap on how much odr we can spend on refreshing temporary effects (...and the effects we get there are... decent but not great?) I'm not saying that we should be actively looking for places to spend Odr on temp effects. We shouldn't... but we get something like ten points of this stuff a round, we're going to get more of it per round as our orthstirr rises, and the more of it we invest, the less valuable it becomes. This is a very valuable resource right now, because we have a whole bunch of cheap high-payoff investing to do, but it's not critically limited like you're suggesting it is. Eventually, we're going to hit a point where we want to keep around a reserve of 20+ points of the stuff in case a fight breaks out because the buffs might be worth it.

I mean, it's almost certainly also how we break through to the next Realm. Like, I suspect we need a minimum amount of it to do that and the more we have the better. Additionally, even at 20 a round (way more than we'll be getting any time soon, I think), we would not run out of things to spend it on usefully any time soon if skills are, in fact, buffable with it and worth buffing.

Again, I'm not saying we never use it, I'm saying doing so should be something we do when we have no other good options to achieve the same thing, and only then.

Can we use odr on twists? Is there any way to test out "use Odr on punching up" under controlled circumstances? (I guess if we were sparring with Steinarr?)

We can per the Character Sheet, so it looks like it. Probably not to increase their effects, though maybe, I guess we don't know for sure.
 
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Honestly once we get rid of Horra, I'd like us to go on like a trading expedition. Buy plants and seeds from everywhere. Plant in our soulscape. We almost definitely need to basically turn our soulscape into a gardenscape to even have the basis of being able to break through to the next realm.

And figure out how to increase Odr production. Maybe another look at Aspect Weaving, or creating the equivalent of a Focus. Or both. If we can get more Odr we can be a lot more free in using it. The Odr we're getting per turn is in no way enough to finish Realm 1 at any reasonable speed, so there must be ways to get more per turn.
 
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Honestly once we get rid of Horra, I'd like us to go on like a trading expedition. Buy plants and seeds from everywhere. Plant in our soulscape. We almost definitely need to basically turn our soulscape into a gardenscape to even have the basis of being able to break through to the next realm.

And figure out how to increase Odr production. Maybe another look at Aspect Weaving, or creating the equivalent of a Focus. Or both. If we can get more Odr we can be a lot more free in using it. The Odr we're getting per turn is in no way enough to finish Realm 1 at any reasonable speed, so there must be ways to get more per turn.

Trip to Gabriel's homeland, drop him off, help him sort out any problems that emerged while he was missing, go poking around for shinies, then come home? That does sound like a nice way to organically continue the Plot!

As for better cultivation... I bet we can hit up the Dwarves for suggestions, I recall that it was explicitly pointed out that the door to their house was very high energy, see if we can hire them to do some magic feng shui to our little cultivation site.
 
Trip to Gabriel's homeland, drop him off, help him sort out any problems that emerged while he was missing, go poking around for shinies, then come home? That does sound like a nice way to organically continue the Plot!

I'm 100% down for the trading expedition to Wessex once we've killed Horra, yeah. We probably want to swing by Vestfold on either the way there or the way back to deal with the 'Mom's Amulet' situation. But a good trip for all that seems necessary once we've finished off Horra.

As for better cultivation... I bet we can hit up the Dwarves for suggestions, I recall that it was explicitly pointed out that the door to their house was very high energy, see if we can hire them to do some magic feng shui to our little cultivation site.

This seems possible, yeah. We should probably try and hire them rather than making it one of our three favors, though, if we can (and can afford it).
 
So far on getting deep lore/cultivation lore, Jerasmus has pretty much been a bust. He's too good at hiding the actually important things. Gabriel has provided way more information for far less investment. We could probably get a bunch of Knight Armor Lore just by sparring while he's in armor and quizzing him about it, for example. We might even figure out how Focus works by asking him how he stays so focused in the heat of battle while getting smacked around.

Going forward as a general policy I think we should aim at people who are younger, less wise, more naive, or some combination which makes them more likely to yield information. There's a lot of cultivation systems around, and we can look into those systems in addition to Christianity to refine our system.
As for better cultivation... I bet we can hit up the Dwarves for suggestions, I recall that it was explicitly pointed out that the door to their house was very high energy, see if we can hire them to do some magic feng shui to our little cultivation site.
I was thinking about maybe helping us to set up a Runestone, either for family buffs, or setting up a place where we can tell the other Norsepeople around about Odr and then smashing the enemy attack that comes.

Dwarven lessons on forging would also be great but probably unlikely to get anywhere.
 
I don't think their forging techniques cross over, better to focus on what we can do.

But yeah, I still think following the Bible Study thing is going to pay off eventually, if only to have an idea of their foundational 'Saga' so to speak. It's just not going to pay off in direct numerical advantages.
 
We should absolutely ask the dwarves for help with our forging. That's like their whole schtick. At worst they can probably offer bountiful Training Dice. Please let's not cut ourselves off at the pass by assuming we can't get something.
 
We should absolutely ask the dwarves for help with our forging. That's like their whole schtick. At worst they can probably offer bountiful Training Dice. Please let's not cut ourselves off at the pass by assuming we can't get something.

I suspect they can teach us at least some stuff but we'd either need to do them a bigger favor first or pay through the nose. It's an avenue we should pursue, but carefully and bearing in mind that they definitely have forging secrets they almost certainly won't teach us alongside those they may.
 
Is it intentional that Blackhand didn't say anything whatsoever during any of our Bible Studies with Jerasmus?

Like the only thing Blackhand said about Jerasmus, when we first met was that he was harmless but should not be unbound.

Also Blackhand said he has trouble staying awake in Christian Lands. Is that going to be a problem for us if our successor chooses to explore the world, including Christian Lands?

Why do almost all the knights and squires that we've met are water-associated? There's Highwater that Steinarr killed, there's the water Hugareida Squire we fought, there's his Knight, which had 'Ironwater's Edge'..
 
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I suspect they can teach us at least some stuff but we'd either need to do them a bigger favor first or pay through the nose. It's an avenue we should pursue, but carefully and bearing in mind that they definitely have forging secrets they almost certainly won't teach us alongside those they may.
True.
But then again our Food part of the offering got very good reactions, so regular deliveries could add up to much more worth than it seems to us humans (granted, part of it could be due to our 12 successes in the action).
Also He already promised us 3 favours.

He takes it from you with blinding speed, eyes bulging from his head as he hunches over and opens the satchel. A shout of pure joy springs from his lips as he leaps into the air, heels clacking together before he touches back down.

"Food of the sun!" He cries as tears of happiness trickle down his face. "By the blood in my veins and the weight of my bones, I name you a Friend of Clan Duckling!"

You smile as the dwarf promises you three favors for the kindness shown this day.

When we aren't pressed for time die to Horra we should also ask about their war and how we can help.
And once the war is over see if they are interested in trading some of our food for some of their iron.
 
True.
But then again our Food part of the offering got very good reactions, so regular deliveries could add up to much more worth than it seems to us humans (granted, part of it could be due to our 12 successes in the action).
Also He already promised us 3 favours.

I think if we're making major deals involving selling our food we need to wait for the new Management System to kick in. And he did indeed, but I suspect 'teach me smithing' is a bigger favor than the ones he promised us are intended to be. Trying to demand too much for such a thing is likely to annoy them, and we do not under any circumstances want to annoy the dwarves if we can avoid it.

When we aren't pressed for time die to Horra we should also ask about their war and how we can help.

It's heavily illegal for us to actually help in their war. We can trade them food or whatever, but not actually do anything more. If there are humans involved (like Horra providing weapons) we can do something about that, but dwarf vs. dwarf stuff is very specifically not our business.

And once the war is over see if they are interested in trading some of our food for some of their iron.

That definitely seems viable, yeah.
 
I think it would be great for future planning and speculation if we could like, compile research results.

Along with a 'Odr as far as you know' mechanic.

Do we know how Nid screws up cultivation? Is it like Anti-Feats, you lose Orthsirr every year?
 
I think it would be great for future planning and speculation if we could like, compile research results.

Along with a 'Odr as far as you know' mechanic.

This is a great idea.

Do we know how Nid screws up cultivation? Is it like Anti-Feats, you lose Orthsirr every year?

We do not. We know it results in low Orthstirr in the long run, but that's all we know. Odrengskapr is just the opposite of Drengskapr (ie: reduces all Orthstirr rewards by its rating), but Nid we're a lot less clear on.
 
It's heavily illegal for us to actually help in their war. We can trade them food or whatever, but not actually do anything more. If there are humans involved (like Horra providing weapons) we can do something about that, but dwarf vs. dwarf stuff is very specifically not our business.
On that:
Ancestral Exchange says "Humans don't get involved with dwarf business in an organized fashion"
If he says that they could use all the trade for x they can get, and that does not violate the deal, I'm very interested in getting them x.
If farming comes back spare food could be a prime example for x.
Yes, it's a violation of the Ancestral Exchange, the deal forged long ago that serves to provide a way for dwarves and humanity to trade properly. Humans don't get involved with dwarf business in an organized fashion, dwarves don't get involved with human business in an organized fashion
 
I mean, we were just talking about it, but is developing a Norse version of Plate possible?
Sure
How many bandits were at the Northern camp when we scouted it?
7
How do the Byzantines buff up the Varangian Guard to make them as scary as Knights and similar things? We were speculating armor, but it could be a lot of things.
i won't tell you all of it, but the hiring process is a very good one and the mere act of joining the Guard is a prestigious one.
Is there any way to test out "use Odr on punching up" under controlled circumstances? (I guess if we were sparring with Steinarr?
you got it. Spar with Steinarr, spar with Sten.
Is it intentional that Blackhand didn't say anything whatsoever during any of our Bible Studies with Jerasmus?
sort of. Blackhand doesn't really like acting around Jerasmus.
Also Blackhand said he has trouble staying awake in Christian Lands. Is that going to be a problem for us if our successor chooses to explore the world, including Christian Lands?
nah, Halla will be a full spirit rather than a mere wisp of one.
Why do almost all the knights and squires that we've met are water-associated? There's Highwater that Steinarr killed, there's the water Hugareida Squire we fought, there's his Knight, which had 'Ironwater's Edge'..
Highwater, despite the name, had nothing to do with water. His name is just a reference to an obscure thing. A cookie if you get it.

Frisian Knights trend towards water because, well, the Netherlands has a very watery history.
@Imperial Fister Don't know if this has already been asked but is just being bodily dead a quirk of this cultivation au or just that of the Norse cultivation?
Just of Norse.
Do we know how Nid screws up cultivation? Is it like Anti-Feats, you lose Orthsirr every year?
it devours orthstirr. A single point of nid can devour anywhere from 4 to 40 points if orthstirr (not hard numbers)
 
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