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NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)

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I think there is ultimately value in learning shapecrafting and becoming a master of it in our line, if our ultimate goal is to Understand and Improve Norse cultivation. Shapecrafters are a big part of that cultivation style, and just avoiding ever working with/on it because it sounds scary is... eh.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
The specific quirks don't always seem unworkable if looked at in isolation, but then you look at the life surrounding them and realize that they eat the shapecrafter's life and relationships, leaving nothing left but the shapecrafting itself. That sounds depressing and deeply unpleasant to play through.
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Most shapecrafters we heard about were already well established though. And being one is highly prestigious.
And its the third branch of the magical school.
Siedir for the world, Skalding for the mind and Shapecrafting for the body.
And while we know there is more for Runes, all we have to go on that front is getting better materials and - somehow- preparing them so they are even more magical.
 
KittyEmpress said:
I think there is ultimately value in learning shapecrafting and becoming a master of it in our line, if our ultimate goal is to Understand and Improve Norse cultivation. Shapecrafters are a big part of that cultivation style, and just avoiding ever working with/on it because it sounds scary is... eh.
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There's a difference between understanding something and actually practicing it, IMO. Learning more about shapecrafting and becoming a shapecrafter are very different things. I'm in favor of the first and utterly against the second.

TheCount said:
Most shapecrafters we heard about were already well established though. And being one is highly prestigious.
And its the third branch of the magical school.
Siedir for the world, Skalding for the mind and Shapecrafting for the body.
And while we know there is more for Runes, all we have to go on that front is getting better materials and - somehow- preparing them so they are even more magical.
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I don't really care if our character is rich. I care if they are able to go out and do interesting things (which most shapecrafters seem handicapped in doing for lots of reasons), if they retain agency so we the players aren't trapped in bad situations without recourse (which shapecrafter madness severely compromises), and if they are happy and capable of having things like friends (and most shapecrafters are very much not).

Basically, becoming a shapecrafter seems to make it harder to have adventures or people you care about and damages agency fairly severely. It sounds like the opposite of actually fun or enjoyable in any way.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
I don't really care if our character is rich. I care if they are able to go out and do interesting things (which most shapecrafters seem handicapped in doing for lots of reasons), if they retain agency so we the players aren't trapped in bad situations without recourse (which shapecrafter madness severely compromises), and if they are happy and capable of having things like friends (and most shapecrafters are very much not).

Basically, becoming a shapecrafter seems to make it harder to have adventures or people you care about and damages agency fairly severely. It sounds like the opposite of actually fun or enjoyable in any way.
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Considering we are going with Sigurdr, its fairy easy to get wanderlust and friendly for the character if we will want to make a shapecrafter afterwards, same goes for stoic calm, so those aren't really things to bring up.

And even if we don't, for some godforsaken reason, pass down friendly and stoic calm, there is nothing saying, so far, that we need to actually start apprenticing for shapecrafting BEFORE making good friends. It will need a lot of orsthirr, after all, if it costs anything like the seidr spells. At most, we would need to keep a herd in our soul if we choose to not have another life like Halla's, spending most of the year home aside from going on adventures most summer.

As for agency... again, Horra did showed us how there can be an outlet to focus on the obsession. We can even do another explorer, by going around the world and pick up interesting traits from whatever animals/monsters we encounter.
Also, i heavily doubt IF would take away our agency without us choosing said drawback, like with every time we upgraded our Fylgja.
Closest to that was rolling for negative traits for the kids, but even those, we could influence to a degree.

As for trapped with no recourse... i have no reason to fear IF pulling the rug like that, because we would build said inheritor from the moment Charred Soul gets passed down.
While i would like if the shapecrafter training would be organic, i agree it would be better to start on it on our terms, so, preferably an inheritor that was curious or interested about the craft even before the inheritance but one not yet apprenticed to any shapecrafter.

As for most shapeshifter not being happy or having friends... again, friendly trait and why wouldn't they make friends before learning shapecrafting?
And i doubt any of them are unhappy or they wouldn't have chosen to become one. the closest to unhappy was Horra, but he has focused his insanity/obsession into revenge, of all the things. Of course that would make everyone around him miserable.
 
TheCount said:
Considering we are going with Sigurdr,
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I think that's far from decided already. A few posters have said he's their current favorite, but there's been quite a few who prefer the Weird Twins and some who are pro Eyvor.


I agree on the rest though. Shapecrafters are weird oddballs all with some awkward or painful obsession, but that doesn't mean they're unplayable or unhappy. If every Shapecrafter was deeply unhappy why would anyone ever become one?


Would Shapecrafting make the character always the weirdest in the room? Sure! But that doesn't mean they'd be unhappy people for it. They could have friends or family most likely, just... likely fewer, but ones who can say they understand that their friend is weird but still their friend.


Not every character needs to be Halla recruiting and making friends with every Viking she can.
 
We have been told point blank by IF that when shapecrafters have crying breakdowns in public (a common occurrence) they do not receive nid because the Gods pity them.

I think you're both vastly underestimating the degree to which being a shapecrafter messes you up.
 
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DeadmanwalkingXI said:
We have been told point blank by IF that when shapecrafters have crying breakdowns in public (a common occurrence) they do not receive nid because the Gods pity them.

I think you're both vastly underestimating the degree to which being a shapecrafter messes you up.
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I think you're overestimating it. Having knowledge that drives you mad is cool as hell, and as mentioned before IF is not a hack of a writer who would make us completely unable to function as a character or make the Quest painful and impossible because we chose to pursue it.

It'd be a challenge to be overcome, but I have no doubt IF would make it an interesting one that we could handle, not some 'twenty years of constant sobbing'.
 
alexthealright said:
I thought it was when they had a breakdown in private IE when only the Gods are watching?
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Ah! I think you're right, my bad. I think the point stands, though...if being a shapecrafter regularly results in breakdowns so bad that the gods take pity on you it's pretty clearly deeply awful.

KittyEmpress said:
I think you're overestimating it. Having knowledge that drives you mad is cool as hell, and as mentioned before IF is not a hack of a writer who would make us completely unable to function as a character or make the Quest painful and impossible because we chose to pursue it.

It'd be a challenge to be overcome, but I have no doubt IF would make it an interesting one that we could handle, not some 'twenty years of constant sobbing'.
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IF has signposted that becoming a shapecrafter is awful and damaging about as hard as is possible, it would not be pulling the rug out from under us to have it actually be awful and damaging.

A repeated refrain of this quest has been that actions have consequences and if we choose wrong we can suffer and die. Some choices are bad choices and this has been signposted as one really hard.
 
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[X] Change some things
-[X] Make sure Solrun is there for the family meeting regarding Dorri (and helps with privacy stuff). Replace asking her about the mountain of metal with asking her to help set up surveillance on Dorri.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
We have been told point blank by IF that when shapecrafters have crying breakdowns in public (a common occurrence) they do not receive nid because the Gods pity them.

I think you're both vastly underestimating the degree to which being a shapecrafter messes you up.
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A crying breakdown is the least of our worries if we go shapecrafter.

if anything, my main worry with a shapecrafter is stuff like loose impulsion control or a rage explosion, like with Asgeirr or Eyvor respectively.

And, again, our theoretical shapecrafter inheritor would be in a LOT of a better place than most other shapecrafter, due to the Charred Soul inheritance trait/mechanic. Halla would definitely help keep them stable and balanced and it would take a very very big tragedy for any other descendant of hers, not to mention inheritors, to be an asshole considering how Halla is raising her kids AND that she would tag along with every other inheritor after her.
 
Obviously we need to obtain True Shapecrafting, which uses odr and because of that does not need an additional Price.
(Just like Frenzy is obtained through odr infusion but lesser cultivators can still get it by joining a berserk lodge)
 
The Lone badger said:
Obviously we need to obtain True Shapecrafting, which uses odr and because of that does not need an additional Price.
(Just like Frenzy is obtained through odr infusion but lesser cultivators can still get it by joining a berserk lodge)
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I highly doubt that we could gain that power with the necessary sacrifice.

And just for the record we didn't get Frenzy for free. We're still dealing with all the issues of it just the same as everyone else.
 
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alexthealright said:
I highly doubt that exists and I especially doubt that we could gain that power with the necessary sacrifice.

And just for the record we didn't get Frenzy for free. We're still dealing with all the issues of it just the same as everyone else.
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Power always has a price. But that price can be paid in many different coins. And odr seems to exist for the purpose of being fungible power, metaphysical currency.
 
TheCount said:
And, again, our theoretical shapecrafter inheritor would be in a LOT of a better place than most other shapecrafter, due to the Charred Soul inheritance trait/mechanic. Halla would definitely help keep them stable and balanced and it would take a very very big tragedy for any other descendant of hers, not to mention inheritors, to be an asshole considering how Halla is raising her kids AND that she would tag along with every other inheritor after her.
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I don't feel like this actually follows very well. Having voices in your head, even well meaning ones, does not seem super likely to vastly increase mental stability. Especially not when giving up that stability as a necessary sacrifice for power.

The Lone badger said:
Obviously we need to obtain True Shapecrafting, which uses odr and because of that does not need an additional Price.
(Just like Frenzy is obtained through odr infusion but lesser cultivators can still get it by joining a berserk lodge)
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If this is an option, I'd potentially be down for it, but I wouldn't count on it. Odr can be used to pay some prices, but not all of them.
 
The Lone badger said:
Obviously we need to obtain True Shapecrafting, which uses odr and because of that does not need an additional Price.
(Just like Frenzy is obtained through odr infusion but lesser cultivators can still get it by joining a berserk lodge)
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Odr was the just method we used to unlock Frenzy. Getting Frenzy via Odr rather than the usual method hasn't kept us from suffering the regular downsides of it and beyond our abnormal method of acquiring it, there hasn't been anything unusual about our Frenzy or how it has worked.
 
The Lone badger said:
Power always has a price. But that price can be paid in many different coins. And odr seems to exist for the purpose of being fungible power, metaphysical currency.
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Once again that would be more likely if Frenzy had drawbacks that we weren't exhibiting.

But we still have to put our frenzy in fasts so it doesn't drive us mad, it still drove us completely insane when we first got it and I think it would have been mentioned if there was something we weren't suffering from.
 
We don't know enough about how shapecrafting actually works to even theorize whether Odr would make a difference in whether it drives one mad. We really need to watch a shapecrafter initiation somehow in order to get a better idea, as well as watch more shapecrafting performed.

I'd definitely be down for a more thorough investigation of shapecrafting bearing in mind that if we find a way to avoid or vastly ameliorate its known down sides via some other price we might pursue actually learning it. It's becoming a shapecrafter if there isn't such a method, or before even trying to find one, that strikes me as a really bad idea.
 
Odr (or rather, our soulscape) did let us sort of do things others cannot. We learned to sew pockets into our Orthstirr that let us store the Frenzy without taking up shapeshifting slots or requiring Shapecrafting, instead just tying up some of our energy and taking a long time to make. So there's potential for something similar to maybe exist, not a way to pay no cost but a way to pay an alternative cost.


That said, I still think we could go even traditional route and having a less happy go lucky friendly protagonist without it being any sort of misery porn yall are afraid of. I'm almost certain we'd even get to vote on what kind of obsession we get, and everyone could theorycraft which is the least damaging.
 
I kind of assume that shapecrafter madness has an inverse relationship between breadth of madness and depth of madness. Actually. I am suddenly amused by the idea that Horra probably would have built the stitched elephant as an anti Steinar measure even if he knew Steinar was dead. And then he would have tried to turn the elephant into an einherjar stitched elephant in case ghost Steinar tried to get him.
 
Oshha said:
Odr was the just method we used to unlock Frenzy. Getting Frenzy via Odr rather than the usual method hasn't kept us from suffering the regular downsides of it and beyond our abnormal method of acquiring it, there hasn't been anything unusual about our Frenzy or how it has worked.
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We don't know what price is normally paid to obtain frenzy. Once we have it it behaves the same as frenzy always does, but we sidestepped the actual initiation.
 
KittyEmpress said:
Odr (or rather, our soulscape) did let us sort of do things others cannot. We learned to sew pockets into our Orthstirr that let us store the Frenzy without taking up shapeshifting slots or requiring Shapecrafting, instead just tying up some of our energy and taking a long time to make. So there's potential for something similar to maybe exist, not a way to pay no cost but a way to pay an alternative cost.
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It's possible, yeah. But it probably needs to be paid up front as part of gaining shapecrafting in the first place, so the time to figure it out is before we even consider a shapecrafter PC.

KittyEmpress said:
That said, I still think we could go even traditional route and having a less happy go lucky friendly protagonist without it being any sort of misery porn yall are afraid of. I'm almost certain we'd even get to vote on what kind of obsession we get, and everyone could theorycraft which is the least damaging.
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There's a big difference between 'less happy go lucky friendly' and 'obsession and paranoia makes them barely functional and their anxiety is so severe they often hide in corners crying'...the latter has been strongly indicated to be how shapecrafters are. They are not merely obsessive, but extremely paranoid and anxious as well, and that's just the immediately obvious stuff.

Like, if we want to play a second character without Friendly (like Eyvor, for instance) I'd still be fine. She's not my pick (I'm leaning towards one of the twins at the moment), and I rather like the Friendly Trait, but it's not a deal breaker to lack it. But the kind of stuff we've seen is basically universal among shapecrafters? As portrayed that would indeed be a deal breaker for me...I just would cease to actually enjoy a quest where we took that option assuming it resembled the shapecrafters we've actually seen.

Like, you can speculate 'oh, we can make it not that bad' all you want, but it really has been that bad on every single shapecrafter we've seen, which leads me to believe that no, no, we cannot. Not without special things from the get-go like using Odr instead, anyway.
 
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