Also, @Imperial Fister, what do you play in VtM? I'm curious.
A Caitiff at the moment
While other people have said a lot on this, I'd like to mention that I didn't subtract a Reward Dice from you for this. I didn't note that in the update or anything and that's my bad, but yeah.

...If I did accidentally take a Reward Dice from you, then that's a fuck up on my part and should be corrected.

Regardless, I'm not really sure what the actual issue is here. I gave the go-ahead for training that flicker-step trick you came up with?
 
I'd like to reiterate my call for people to vote for the minor changes I suggest:

[X] Change some things
-[X] Make sure Solrun is there for the family meeting regarding Dorri (and helps with privacy stuff). Replace asking her about the mountain of metal with asking her to help set up surveillance on Dorri.

We really do need Solrun on the Dorri thing pretty much immediately if possible, and having her in the know is very useful.
 
[X] Change some things
-[X] Make sure Solrun is there for the family meeting regarding Dorri (and helps with privacy stuff). Replace asking her about the mountain of metal with asking her to help set up surveillance on Dorri.

Yeah, at this point Solrun is family and needs to know this, especially if there's a chance Dorri gets paranoid and starts going after other powerful people.
 
I wonder if there's some alt universe where we somehow got this close to the Hading Witch instead of Solrun? Just somehow curbed her evilness enough that she became a mainstay.
 
[X] Change some things
-[X] Make sure Solrun is there for the family meeting regarding Dorri (and helps with privacy stuff). Replace asking her about the mountain of metal with asking her to help set up surveillance on Dorri.

One of this days we should ask Solrun abaout curses and hexes. We might not use them because its Nid, but knowing abaout them can only be good.

Maybe we can even find a way to use them as debuffs in combat without it begin Nid.
 
One of this days we should ask Solrun abaout curses and hexes. We might not use them because its Nid, but knowing abaout them can only be good.

Maybe we can even find a way to use them as debuffs in combat without it begin Nid.

This has been on the agenda for a while but keeps getting pushed. It's currently planned for next turn to ask her about combative seidr, including curses, though.
 
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This has been on the agenda for a while but keeps getting pushed. It's currently planned for next turn to ask her about combative seidr, including curses, though.

Good to know.

'That, I reckon,' Blackhand sits with eyes turned towards the empty horizons, 'was a consequence of cultivators at war.'

I have just remembered this part. I wonder who is fighting this war, and how powerful they are if they are causing storms so violent on an immense geographycal region.
 
[X] Change some things
-[X] Make sure Solrun is there for the family meeting regarding Dorri (and helps with privacy stuff). Replace asking her about the mountain of metal with asking her to help set up surveillance on Dorri.

While other people have said a lot on this, I'd like to mention that I didn't subtract a Reward Dice from you for this. I didn't note that in the update or anything and that's my bad, but yeah.

...If I did accidentally take a Reward Dice from you, then that's a fuck up on my part and should be corrected.

Regardless, I'm not really sure what the actual issue is here. I gave the go-ahead for training that flicker-step trick you came up with?

Sorry, I think there must have been a miscommunication/misalignment of expectations here.

Basically, I was thinking of the research action as getting us to start training the flicker-step trick, since the research action kind of emphasised the physical training side of things, and also we'd already practiced doing essentially the same thing before. It seemed to me that we'd done a lot of "meditate on TSS" research and kind of gotten all that could be usefully gleaned from it for the time being, so I was a bit worried that we'd repeated that when I'd deliberately attempted to word things to avoid it.

However, if we've unlocked that move for training actions, then that's actually significant progress - my reading of the update was we'd need to spend another Research action on it. Also on consideration it's unreasonable of me to have gotten annoyed that you did not realise I was referring back to a part of a research action we did in the start of October, with the number of plates you've got to spin. Apologies for being snappy, it was late when I replied.

Hope your V:tM game is fun!

I wonder if there's some alt universe where we somehow got this close to the Hading Witch instead of Solrun? Just somehow curbed her evilness enough that she became a mainstay.

It's definitely fun to consider.

It's possible that she was just someone who had made some bad choices in life. Although it's hard to know how much that was due to Blackhand staring her down in all of our interactions. There was almost certainly some unpleasant stuff we didn't get to see, but there's a significant difference between hexing your enemies and like, going full Hansel and Gretel. I suspect whether the Quest would ultimately decide to stay with her or not might hinge on whether her actions were the former or the latter.
 
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It's possible that she was just someone who had made some bad choices in life. Although it's hard to know how much that was due to Blackhand staring her down in all of our interactions. There was almost certainly some unpleasant stuff we didn't get to see, but there's a significant difference between hexing your enemies and like, going full Hansel and Gretel. I suspect whether the Quest would ultimately decide to stay with her or not might hinge on whether her actions were the former or the latter.

The evidence suggests she was originally intending to trap Halla into some unfair and predatory obligations, something it seems unlikely she did only to Halla, so my own impression is that, while she probably wasn't eating children, she was engaging in some deeply predatory business practices as well as stuff like cursing anyone you pay her to curse.

I'm dubious we would have been cool with all that, though it might depend on the details, I suppose.
 
Is cursing someone really all that different than killing them? That's one of the moral quandaries you'd be faced with should you have gone down the Witch route
 
The evidence suggests she was originally intending to trap Halla into some unfair and predatory obligations, something it seems unlikely she did only to Halla, so my own impression is that, while she probably wasn't eating children, she was engaging in some deeply predatory business practices as well as stuff like cursing anyone you pay her to curse.

I'm dubious we would have been cool with all that, though it might depend on the details, I suppose.

I think I could conceivably see the players choosing to befriend and maybe help redeem the equivalent of a magical predatory loan shark. That doesn't feel completely outside the Overton Window for what the quest has been willing to overlook in the past. Tryggr and Trausti were mercenaries and raiders working for Horra before they swore service to us, and a lot of our best friends have gone on raids, including Halla. I'm not saying that is necessarily the same as entrapping people in magical obligations, and Norse culture definitely favours one over the other. But from the perspective of the players, they're not a million miles away, I think?

Really I think it would depend on how personally she had behaved towards us, given protagonist-centric morality is definitely a thing in Quests. (And I'm not excluding myself from that.) Any perception that she was dangerous or a trying to scam us would definitely have turned the players against her, as it in fact did. However if she'd done something unexpectedly nice or stuck her neck out for Halla - maybe a stretch to imagine given her character, but I could see her maybe seeing herself in Halla - then I could see the players deciding to be more loyal towards her.
 
Is cursing someone really all that different than killing them? That's one of the moral quandaries you'd be faced with should you have gone down the Witch route

Yeah. There's definitely a blurry line there...personally, as we saw with the story of how Hallr learned seidr and all its fallout, I'd be disinclined to do murder for hire. Going to fight people as a mercenary we're clearly up for but 'Go kill this specific guy.' has more implications and fallout as it's a lot more personal. I'd put cursing someone in the same category as that. Not necessarily a moral objection to doing it, but some serious concerns, both moral and practical, about doing it for hire.

However if she'd done something unexpectedly nice or stuck her neck out for Halla - maybe a stretch to imagine given her character, but I could see her maybe seeing herself in Halla - then I could see the players deciding to be more loyal towards her.

It's not impossible, as I said I feel it would depend on details, but I do think we'd find her business related behavior distasteful in terms of being manipulative, which I think (for better or worse) it's less likely for questers to ignore than straight-up violence.
 
I think the Witch is definitely the plot thread I was saddest to see get ignored entirely, as a late joiner. I wanted to learn her story and why she became a witch, and more about what it meant to be a witch.
 
I think the Witch is definitely the plot thread I was saddest to see get ignored entirely, as a late joiner. I wanted to learn her story and why she became a witch, and more about what it meant to be a witch.

It was interesting but she was so sketchy it became hard to justify after another option for seidr presented itself.

ngl, i am kinda curious if that's still open, what with the option to go to her home still being there.

I mean, there's a murder mystery there, which is probably the reason for that.
 
Witch's route would have been an easier way to get seidr, lmao. Wouldn't have had to kill freaking Horra to get it.

Also, remember when you folks were all annoyed at having to fight a 30+ year old Norseman to get seidr? That was funny
 
I think the Witch is definitely the plot thread I was saddest to see get ignored entirely, as a late joiner. I wanted to learn her story and why she became a witch, and more about what it meant to be a witch.

Yeah, i also wanted to learn more abaout the Witch. But i joined too late.

I think people were simply too scared of her, so no one wanted to confront her again.

ngl, i am kinda curious if that's still open, what with the option to go to her home still being there.

I mean, apparently Halfdan is the one who killed her. So we should ask him what happened and if he knows if she is dead definitely or will come back.

We could also return to her home and ransack it, hoping to find something useful.

Possibly we should bring Solrun with us, she would help finding valuable things or detecting Seidr traps.
 
She didn't want to kill us when we met her, but there were concerns she might want to do unpleasant things to us going forward. Probably not killing us, IMO, but certainly other potentially unpleasant stuff.
Eh, power require sacrifice. But yeah, we probably came out ahead on that front, all things considered.

Can only hope we will get a shapecrafter inheritor after Sigurdr.

Edit: urgh, i hate double posting....
Yeah, i also wanted to learn more abaout the Witch. But i joined too late.

I think people were simply too scared of her, so no one wanted to confront her again.

I mean, apparently Halfdan is the one who killed her. So we should ask him what happened and if he knows if she is dead definitely or will come back.

We could also return to her home and ransack it, hoping to find something useful.

Possibly we should bring Solrun with us, she would help finding valuable things or detecting Seidr traps.
i did wanted to, but nobody else liked due to how the first time ended.

I thought its only confirmed she was killed by a Dane Axe? must have missed how Halfdan was figured out.
And considering how Hikir was found in the house... there might or might not be anything left, but i would also like to go there again anyways. if nothing else, its good for another shelter/lab.
 
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I mean, apparently Halfdan is the one who killed her. So we should ask him what happened and if he knows if she is dead definitely or will come back.

This was not confirmed, only hypothesized. We have no idea who really killed her.

Can only hope we will get a shapecrafter inheritor after Sigurdr.

I remain pretty strongly against playing a shapecrafter in this universe. Every other kind of Norse magic seems like we could explore it, but not that one.
 
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This was not confirmed, only hypothesized. We have no idea who really killed her.



I remain pretty strongly against playing a shapecrafter in this universe. Every other kind of Norse magic seems like we could explore it, but not that one.
Yeah, that's you.

Others also want to explore it. And the insanity/obsession will have an already present outlet to cope: The voices in the inheritor's head.
Wouldn't even raise eyebrows, what with milk fiend or junk collector already showing us mental problems that are harmless.
Limpwrist showed even the physical or the comfort/sensibility twist can be non issues (i mean the damp interior of the house, though that latter one might have been due to the house being shapecrafted)
And Horra, as much as we have reasons to hate him, showed that the insanity/obsession can be harnessed/focused, as he did with his revenge on Steinarr.

And said inheritor would also be a player character. We would get to chose the price for shapecrafting, i assume, as we did with the fylgja development.
Depending how getting an apprenticeship at a shapecrafter works, we might not even need to start as a kid for that to be the case.
 

Yes? I can obviously only speak for my own preferences. I was simply noting that I disagreed with you.

And said inheritor would also be a player character. We would get to chose the price for shapecrafting, i assume, as we did with the fylgja development.

This is a big assumption, but even if true we have not yet seen a single shapecrafter whose price I would be remotely comfortable paying. They are all, universally from what we've seen, damaged to the point of not being able to have functional interpersonal relationships, even with loved ones. Horra was by far the most functional one we've seen and even he managed to alienate his own children to the point they betrayed him.

The specific quirks don't always seem unworkable if looked at in isolation, but then you look at the life surrounding them and realize that they eat the shapecrafter's life and relationships, leaving nothing left but the shapecrafting itself. That sounds depressing and deeply unpleasant to play through.
 
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